I had shit luck with their 300blk nas3 casings. The whole "they dont stretch or need resized" thing is total bullcrap. Worse, the metal does not resize worth a damn, once fired I had multiples that would not go resize corrrctly.
.308 Winchester
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
I had shit luck with their 300blk nas3 casings. The whole "they dont stretch or need resized" thing is total bullcrap. Worse, the metal does not resize worth a damn, once fired I had multiples that would not go resize corrrctly.
Interesting, I saw a video years ago of TN9outdoors who did some of the better simblock pistol caliber testing back in the day on YT, who tested some with +P++ loads, a single case loaded hot as hell I think he loaded like 18 times or something.
Again we just need more data on how these cases are made and if they're made differently by different manufactures etc.P.S. Obviously pistol caliber brass is not the same as bottle necked rifle brass. Was just sharing what little exposure I had to them.
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Just ordered some 174s ELD VT for the XM3. Just kept having fliers with 168 TMK that i couldn’t explain. I’ll probably be back on MLK weekend to try it out over varget.
I had the same issue with the 168 and 175 TMK. Staying away from tipped bullets for now and currently playing with the Berger 175 OTM.
Man idk what it is. I created a thread on it last year and assumed it was me. Which it partially was I’m out of practice. Don’t shoot like i used to. So have to really work my way back into consistent fundamentals when i come home to do load development.
However, i was and am printing good groups across various rifles. Two of which are much more difficult to shoot than my XM3. One being the LMT LM8 in 308 and yesterday my sako 85 i had rechambered to a 6.5 PRC/SI.
Checked zero on the XM3 with the 168. 10 shot group was kinda meh majority of the 8 shots were okay. Then fliers. I’m like half a mil low from POA. So I’m thinking I’m anticipating a little maybe. Adjust, load the last 6 rounds. 2 are perfect on top of each other and exactly at POA the next 4 are about half a mil high and roughly a 3/4 MOA group.
Now i have never used secant ogive bullet consistently. But it sure seems that the TMKs are pretty sensitive.
After i saw the bc on the 174 i was hoping to switch to them anyway. So we’ll see. Hope to get 2550 from it on a 18.5” barrel but I’ll be pushing for sure.
Last night, lol first thing my buddy suggested. I’m 300rds in as of yesterday. So i went ahead and cleaned it last night. Going to run some 175gr aac through it today. It’s been wonderful in my LMT thus far so i assume it should shoot in a bolt gun. I’m almost 100% positive it’s hornadys aeromatch 175gr OTM. I also have some basic 155gr amax that are loaded for my brothers 308. Might snag some of those
I loaded up some TMKs back when I started reloading, mediocre results but I assumed it was because it was a factory Ruger Predator and Im a hobbyist shooter at best. Never had any .30 hornadys shoot for me so Id love to hear how those Aeromatch work for you.
I lied, I used some 103gr ELDxs to break in my 6GT barrel on my AI, those all shot sub-moa at 600yd during a hi-power practice at my local club. Not .5, but .75-.85 for 15 shots. Decent SD. Will be my deer round if I post up on a field or something with a tripod.
I’ve ran hornady through 308 hell since 2015. My 2nd rifle when i got in to precision shooting and reloading was a 700 5R. I started out with 155gr scenars, then 175gr BTLR from Berger, and settled on 178gr BTHP from hornady. And shot the hell of those until i sold it. Had the barrel cut to 20” and was getting 2630fps with a TBAC 30CB9 and it printed groups like this over 45.3gr of varget. I will forever regret selling that barreled action.
I forgot here was my LMT first 5 shot grouping with the aac stuff which again I’m nearly 100% positive that’s hornadys 175gr aero match bullet.
5 shot group with 176 atips from a 20" tikka ctr barrel. avg 2550fps. these were old loads from another barrel. lapua brass and varget.
All these prior posts about TMKs not working very well are a bit concerning. I bought a couple hundred 155s a while back to load try eventually. Maybe they'll be difficult to get to shoot good.
Man i will say before i bought 600 of them. I could not find load data anywhere for that damn bullet. Idk whether people just never really adopted them or what but google search turned up nothing. Buddy of mine had his and always had issues with them. From what i have gathered they’re nearly a true VLD design with a secant ogive and that’s why they’re so finicky. I shot 100 of them and had half decent groups but just wasn’t what i was looking for. I usually seat everything About 10-20 thou off the lands as a starting point. These are 100 thou off.
This was yesterday. 45.3 gr of varget was what i settled on. 10 shot group on the bottom. Then 6 shots at the X. I don’t have an explanation.
I would think it was me but i shot this with the sako 6.5 PRC/Si with a chin weld cause i dont have a stock pack.
I know somebody who shoots the regular 155 SMK at our monthly belly match. He is fairly successful with them out to 1000 yards. He might be a good reference for finding a starting load based on his 155 SMK load.
Basically what i did with the tmk. Just knowing the bullet is considerably longer with more bearing surface. This was next to a factory 175gr Norma. Of course the Norma is at mag length but the tmk is long as hell
Some people can get the TMK's to shoot and some can't. I like consistency and when I get 1 shot out in left field that turns a good group to shit, it gets annoying. It happens a lot more with the TMK's and other tipped bullets I've shot.
I've given up on chasing the highest BC bullets in favor of consistency. Pretty much only shoot Bergers at this point.
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I get that, however I'm still on the back end chasing BCs in hope that I can bring my beloved 308 closer to 6.5CM ballistics lol. Which admittedly the 174 is getting super close.
What about A-Tips? People getting good consistency? Solids could be an option for the guy chasing BC.
Right there with you. I've always tried to make the underdog fly with the aces with the highest BC bullets.
The experience that sticks out the most in my mind was a half MOA 7 SAUM load with 183 Sierra's that I took to a mile and couldn't hit with any kind of consistency. Switched to 184 Bergers and started hitting the plate regularly.
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade. There are plenty of shooters that have great results with tipped bullets. I just see more of what I like when I shoot Bergers.
I'm currently trying to stretch the legs on a .308 with 200 and 215 gr Hybrids. To the traditional crowd, it will probably sound like a waste of time, however even at a modest 2400 fps, a 215 Berger still crushes the normal .308 loads in the wind, at least on paper.
I really hope you have good results with the 174 Hornady. I was looking at that bullet for my M1A, but after the 168 and 175 TMK results, I decided to skip it.
Hi Guys,
any Tips or Tricks for loading the Berger 200.20x ?
How much jump do they like ? 32" Barrel with a 10" Twist Rate, i have Lapua Palma Brass and VV N150.
any Tips or Tricks for loading the Berger 200.20x ?
How much jump do they like ? 32" Barrel with a 10" Twist Rate, i have Lapua Palma Brass and VV N150.
28" Bartlein barrel, 2013 US FTR reamer, Alpha OCD SRP brass, NT to 0.013", 43.0gn N150, 205M primers, 20X bullets seated +10 jam, 2570-ish fps. Last trip out with a chrono was 2565 avg, SD 6.6 ES 25.4 for 30 shots.
In the past I've run them a bit hotter/faster (2610 from a 28", 2640-2670 from a 30") with Lapua SRP brass, also not jammed, and with different primers (BR4 or R7.5). Haven't experimented with those yet in this load because it shoots well, reliably.
Day 2 of the LR Regional @ Deep Creek (Missoula, MT) - I didn't screenshot the e-targets because I was going to download the target data at the end of the day, but got busy and forgot. So... old-school plot sheets:
800yds:
900yds:
1000yds:
448-19X put me just a few X's off the long-standing national record for FTR on a Palma course of fire (448-21X). Unfortunately, the guy who won crushed it with a 450-30X, so... 
That said, I've had pretty good results in the past jumping them somewhere in the 10-20 thou range (kinda fussy tune window, TBH), or jumping them 50 thou and not worrying about it. This time around... I don't have to worry about a team coach having me extract a round during a string to wait out a condition, so I said 'fuck it' and went back to jamming them.
In the past I've run them a bit hotter/faster (2610 from a 28", 2640-2670 from a 30") with Lapua SRP brass, also not jammed, and with different primers (BR4 or R7.5). Haven't experimented with those yet in this load because it shoots well, reliably.
Day 2 of the LR Regional @ Deep Creek (Missoula, MT) - I didn't screenshot the e-targets because I was going to download the target data at the end of the day, but got busy and forgot. So... old-school plot sheets:
800yds:
900yds:
1000yds:
448-19X put me just a few X's off the long-standing national record for FTR on a Palma course of fire (448-21X). Unfortunately, the guy who won crushed it with a 450-30X, so...
That said, I've had pretty good results in the past jumping them somewhere in the 10-20 thou range (kinda fussy tune window, TBH), or jumping them 50 thou and not worrying about it. This time around... I don't have to worry about a team coach having me extract a round during a string to wait out a condition, so I said 'fuck it' and went back to jamming them.
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Following up on this. Was googling and found a post from accurate shooter from Laurie recommending either seating them in the lands or jumping them as much as 40 thou and up. Thought that might be of some use. I thought about trying mine again because of the TMK terminal performance but I have 174gr ELD VT on the way and really want to use that bullet for the XM-3.
So I was at one of local stores today to grab some primers and they had a box on the 174 on the shelf. Grabbed it just for the hell of it and started some measurements as soon as I got home.
I would have to have a COAL of 2.99 to touch the laads in my M1A. Not sure i want ro jump them .190 with the entire bearing surface below the top of the neck to mag feed and single feeding is not something I'm really interested in.
Yeah I knew they were super long. But i had my XM3 throated for the 168gr tmk which also very long. Granted I’m still limited to 2.970.
I’m not sure that it’s going to feasible in a semi. I also find it strange that there are no hornady factory offerings in it but all the other ELD VT have ammo available.
As far as load data pertaining to seating depth i have no idea. Google has turned up nothing.
Tried the 174VT's at 2.82/ mag fit and ran them thru a barrel with a few miles on it and they did well; no signs of finicky
Might not be constructive to say that my experience has been that too much focus is spent on jump when its effect is less than it is more. In my case, jump was probably a quarter inch, if the rifling began around there at all, but then it produced 5" vert 2.5" horiz at 500 yd so whatever.
Might not be constructive to say that my experience has been that too much focus is spent on jump when its effect is less than it is more. In my case, jump was probably a quarter inch, if the rifling began around there at all, but then it produced 5" vert 2.5" horiz at 500 yd so whatever.
Good to know. Until the tmks I’ve pretty much seated everything 10 thou off the lands and its worked. 308, 6.5x47, 6.5 saum, 6cm, etc.
42.0 grains Varget, 178 ELDX, Alpha SRP brass and this Tikka 20” barrel CTR is most accurate rifle I own. Smooth 2517 FPS. No brake and no suppressor.
Frequently make it through the KYL rack at 600 yards.
This is primarily a hunting/range toy rifle.
Anyone got a Tikka 308 they would be comfortable taking game out to 500 yards.
Frequently make it through the KYL rack at 600 yards.
This is primarily a hunting/range toy rifle.
Anyone got a Tikka 308 they would be comfortable taking game out to 500 yards.
Nice rig............. but a 6.5 CM is much more efficient. I'll let myself out.
I have the same rig in 6.5 Creedmoor that is at smith getting a Bartlein barrel. 2200 rounds so I figured its good to be ahead of curve.
I typically grab my 6.5 Creedmoor but this 308 is a bit more accurate.
It won’t be after the Creedmoor comes back with that Bartlein on it.
Better start saving for a new .308 barre too.
It won’t be after the Creedmoor comes back with that Bartlein on it.
Better start saving for a new .308 barre too.
1200 rounds on 308 bore so its got a long ways to go.
I opted for a 260 AI rather than the 6.5 CM. I'm old so I'm biased against it lol. It's a fine round I just tired of the ignorant claims around it. Plus I have a ton of 308 win brass so in a pinch I can neck them down to 260 rem or 7-08.
My PSS factory barrel has probably over 10k rounds down it's tube. I'd change the barrel but the family gifted it to me when I got out of the Army in 91. I'd rather have a 1-10" twist barrel but my barrel still shoot good. And there a bit of sentimental value there.
But you shoot a .260 AI. Lol Hey if you like it keep it to 100,000 rounds but not every factory barrel is worth wasting that much ammo on when a good custom barrel will shoot much better. I still have my 700VS from 1993 that I keep for sentimental value being my first long range rifle but it hasn’t had a factory barrel on it for over 27 years and it’s on its 9th custom.
Get a 9 twist 5 R 308 22" Rem varmint contour, so it's fairly light in bolt gun, single load 200 gr SMK .715 BC 2740 fps...or put it on a long action...your choice.
Or get even more velocity use hybrid high pressure cases will easily beat the 6.5 CM, I shoot both calibers.
I call bull shit.
People run 200.20Xs - or S200MK - @ 2630-2670 fps every weekend, using SRP brass (take your pick of brands) out of purpose-built single-shot target rifles in FTR - using 30-32" barrels. A very, very few run north of 2700 fps - the ones who either lucked into a 'fast' barrel, or who don't care about trashing primer pockets in 2-3 firings (or less). Which is usually indicative of pressure somewhere past 80K psi. And here you're telling people to push for even *more* speed from a 22" factory tube.
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
45-90 uses hybrid cases from 6.5 fury necked up to .308. You can run very high pressure in those. The stainless steel case head and web has a slightly higher strength than cartridge brass. Probably not great for barrel life though...
Total LOL dude..
You are wrong!... as usual, as are many are who will not accept anything but their concensus, and nothing new.
I have the 30" target barrel too, so I'm very familiar with those target loads.
No BS ...
It's Totally true, here is the rifle and the chronograph, 22" barrel Rem 700 Bartlein 5 R 9 twist, a cheap build out of left over parts total cost less than $600.
The 6.5 CM would be hard pressed to keep up with these 308 22" barreled loads, add hybrid cases and add more velocity.
Even 230 SMK at 2510 fps in Lapua cases.
And with hybrid cases and longer barrel the 200 gr SMK hit 2951 fps in 308 hybrid cases...that's a fact.
Doesn't mean you have to use any loads but the ones you like, but others may be looking for some improvement in 308 velocities, like 3130 fps for 155 gr palma or 2940 fps 168 Berger in 22" for something different, hunting, etc. In a light, easy walk around 22" barreled rifle.
Think ...the 7 mm Federal Back Country, & earlier Sig 6.8X 51 hybrid cases... the future.
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After 8000 rds my 308 barrel looked like this. It still shot fairly small 3 shot groups at 100 yds, as I'd check it at close range every 500 rds.
All the rest of the rds were 800 to 1400yds. Back in the day when 308 was considered a good target cartridge.
Then it's time for a new barrel.
I used 155 Lapua Scenars in those days, Lapua LR brass, 47.5 gr Varget mostly one barrel liked 48 gr.
If you shoot a lot 155s and a 26" to 28" barrel a 1000 yds is not difficult at all with a 308.
It was cheap to practice with, practice may be more important than caliber, if the caliber is consistent.
Back when Varget was $112 for 8 lbs at the local sporting goods store, and a discount and free shipping on 3000 Lapua 155s, came out to about 25 cents each.
Change the 308 barrel or get another just like it so you can replace barrels on that one, and still have the sentimental one for looking at, while enjoying your shooting rifle...life's to short to ponder such a dilemma.
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