Interesting - Just FYI - I used the Hornady Ballastic calculator to try and dial the loads in and found they hit 4 inches higher at 300 yards than the chart said they would and this carried throughout the different ranges - they kept landing higher than chart said. No idea how this would be used to get speeds.
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.308 Winchester
- Thread starter Two Shoes
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Check your inputs on 4Dof. Should be much closer than that.
Vihtavuori does offer data for N550 for that range of bullets. Just browsing the data page, N540 would make more sense to me.
Rifle reloading data | Handloading | Rifle calibers | Centerfire Rifle bullets | Reload your own ammo - Vihtavuori
Vihtavuori offers rifle reloading data for numerous calibers and bullets for match and hunting purposes. Never exceed maximum loads.
www.vihtavuori.com
When reading ?? the 168 data with all the 168 bullets did you notice anything a little off ?Vihtavuori does offer data for N550 for that range of bullets. Just browsing the data page, N540 would make more sense to me.
Rifle reloading data | Handloading | Rifle calibers | Centerfire Rifle bullets | Reload your own ammo - Vihtavuori
Vihtavuori offers rifle reloading data for numerous calibers and bullets for match and hunting purposes. Never exceed maximum loads.
I contacted them {VVN} and it's not a misprint , it's safe to use, and they are working on a new manual.
Jumping in without going through the thread...
Are you resizing your brass? If so, with what and how?
Yes, full length resizing with Redding S die & .336 bushing I believe.. I use the Redding competition shell holders & cam-over to bump the headspace .002". Since the seating the bullet back further made it chamber easily I don't think the case size was the issue.
I've moved on since then.. building a .243 with that action, and got a Evo II for the .308. Planning on putting it together today. Same barrel, so shouldn't change much, but will do the seating depth test again after everything is torqued.
Yeah, if you’ve bumped the shoulders back 0.002” the brass should not be causing any resistance on close
Good luck with the new builds
Good luck with the new builds
Your shooting partner was down range from you while you were shooting over his head?
That's pretty common at shooting ranges, especially at long distance. The set up is where the "partner" is low and behind a berm (target is above the berm) and can lower the target, mark the hole(s) (if any), then raise the target back up above the berm so the shooter can see the POI's on the target.
I’m at 2 long ranges here in TN and no one is allowed past the benches when line is hot.
Most KD (200,300,600,800,900 and 1000) ranges have target "pits", where usually 1 or 2 relays of a rifle match would pull and mark targets for scoring. Now with the advent of electronic targets "pulling targets" is becoming unheard of.
John
John
Yes, I takes 3 people to shoot the 1000 yard range =- shooter, spotter and target handler. The target guy is behind a concrete and earth berm and he lowers and marks the target then raises it after every shot.
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Come shoot a match at ORSA (Oak Ridge). Learn what life in the pits is all about.
Seriously though, second weekend of every month, March through November, two days, 1,000 yard matches. It's fun and you will meet a lot of really good people and excellent shooters.
Anyone remember hearing this , Lick-en and stick-em , taste-em and paste-em , stand by, run all targets in the air
Did a search thourgh the thread but came up empty:
Is there some starting data for 185 Juggernaugt and 2000-MR. Even if you just have "your load" I can knock off 10% and at least start.
Is there some starting data for 185 Juggernaugt and 2000-MR. Even if you just have "your load" I can knock off 10% and at least start.
185-gr Berger Hunting Hybrid* Power Pro 2000-MR Fed. 210 Federal 2.81 45.6 2642 from page 86 on Alliants data ---> https://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog/2019_Alliant_Powder_Catalog.pdf
46.0 gn of 2000MR with 185 jug worked well for me.
.308, 2000MR, and 175/178/185 Nodes and Loads!
Ok .308 folks, I am ready to dive back into reloading after a decade of factory ammo (FGMM/PRIME), in anticipation of our local match season about to start. One problem: I am very short on time and won't be able to OCW. So I plan to load @x120 of one specific load and shoot x20 for chrono+zero...
www.snipershide.com
Has anyone had any experience with the newer Winchester StaBall Match powder with .308 yet? I’ve seen some temperature testing done with the powder and it appears to be very temperature stable. So much easier to meter out a ball powder than the stick stuff.
Has anyone had any experience with the newer Winchester StaBall Match powder with .308 yet? I’ve seen some temperature testing done with the powder and it appears to be very temperature stable
I ran a pressure test ladder last weekend With the Staball Match in an 18" AR 11T Proof.
For comparison on the same range trip I first ran x 5 FGMM 168 across the Chrono
FGMM 168 x 5 = 2516 SD 9.3
All Staball match loads in Black hills brass with head stamps of 7.62 & 308 Match, cci #34 primers, 168 smk seated 2.800
45.6 = 2582 SD 7.8
46.0 = 2599 SD 20.4
46.4 = 2612 SD 25.5
46.8 = 2664 SD 15
The 46.0 & 46.4 had mixed head stamps & it shows on SD's. 46.8 is book max per Hodgdon.
Primers were flat with some cratering all the way through the ladder. Oddly it didn't get any worse with the upper end loads, but based on speed I'll be re shooting 45.2 - 46.0
If you want to try heavies stay well south of 45.0! I tried 45.6 with 176 A-tips @ 2.875 based on Hodgdon's data & blew a few primers. They list 46.0 max for 175smk @2.800. From what I've seen their 308 data is not at all on the conservative side at least not in an AR.
Accuracy showed promise as well.
A lot of good loads already posted
One of my favorite to load the 308 Win in Bolt Gun.
LC Brass and 44.0 of IMR 4064 with 168gr MK has been one of favorite for years.
Also 45.5 of Varget is a outstanding load along with Reloader 15 @ 45.0.
One of my favorite to load the 308 Win in Bolt Gun.
LC Brass and 44.0 of IMR 4064 with 168gr MK has been one of favorite for years.
Also 45.5 of Varget is a outstanding load along with Reloader 15 @ 45.0.
As a newbie to both the Forum and reloading, I would like to consult forum members on a few issues related to reloading the 308.
First of all, I am an amateur shooter, so far shooting rather with calibers: 7.62x54r, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 - using factory ammunition.
By chance, quite fortunately I recently bought a Russian Izhmash Record-1-308 rifle in .308 Win caliber. This is my first encounter with that caliber. Factory ammo is quite expensive ( I live in Europe, EU, Poland ), after shooting I am left with a factory shells, so I thought that I might try to use them and reload .308 for my rifle. Because the scale of reloading was to be rather small – after a net study and watched several YouTube videos on reloading ( I know now, it is not enough, and with a such tiny background I should not take that step – but it is too late ) – I bought a Lee Loader, thinking that it would be an inexpensive way to get a cheaper ammo.
And with a Lee Loader in one hand and a hammer in the other I’m stuck
I did not prepare the classic “ladder” of powder charges – I just focused on one, based on GRT Reloading software callculation. The first attempt to prepare ammunition, with only one powder charge selected, brought me 5-shots group of the size of 0,85 MOA at 100m. Not bad but not very good either. The problem is that having almost no knowledge of reloading, now I don't know if I should increase or decrease the powder load to make the group even tighter.
Working with a Lee Loader is not an easy task, so before I start to use the hammer again I'd like to know at least the direction - incerase or decrease the powder load?
Parameters: bullet : Hornady ELD-M 178gr, powder Lovex 73.6 - an equivalent let's say of Accurate 2520 - load : 41,15 gr, COAL : 72 mm = 2,83 inch. Shooting distance : 100 m, rifle rested on bipod, optics : PS-07 - magnification x7
GRT software data for my "load": pressure : 3200 bar, muzzle velocity : 778 m/s, energy : 3495 J.
The rifle : Izhmash Record-1-308, cal. 308 Win, barrel : 650 mm, barrel twist 320 mm.
First of all, I am an amateur shooter, so far shooting rather with calibers: 7.62x54r, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 - using factory ammunition.
By chance, quite fortunately I recently bought a Russian Izhmash Record-1-308 rifle in .308 Win caliber. This is my first encounter with that caliber. Factory ammo is quite expensive ( I live in Europe, EU, Poland ), after shooting I am left with a factory shells, so I thought that I might try to use them and reload .308 for my rifle. Because the scale of reloading was to be rather small – after a net study and watched several YouTube videos on reloading ( I know now, it is not enough, and with a such tiny background I should not take that step – but it is too late ) – I bought a Lee Loader, thinking that it would be an inexpensive way to get a cheaper ammo.
And with a Lee Loader in one hand and a hammer in the other I’m stuck
I did not prepare the classic “ladder” of powder charges – I just focused on one, based on GRT Reloading software callculation. The first attempt to prepare ammunition, with only one powder charge selected, brought me 5-shots group of the size of 0,85 MOA at 100m. Not bad but not very good either. The problem is that having almost no knowledge of reloading, now I don't know if I should increase or decrease the powder load to make the group even tighter.
Working with a Lee Loader is not an easy task, so before I start to use the hammer again I'd like to know at least the direction - incerase or decrease the powder load?
Parameters: bullet : Hornady ELD-M 178gr, powder Lovex 73.6 - an equivalent let's say of Accurate 2520 - load : 41,15 gr, COAL : 72 mm = 2,83 inch. Shooting distance : 100 m, rifle rested on bipod, optics : PS-07 - magnification x7
GRT software data for my "load": pressure : 3200 bar, muzzle velocity : 778 m/s, energy : 3495 J.
The rifle : Izhmash Record-1-308, cal. 308 Win, barrel : 650 mm, barrel twist 320 mm.
As you've probably seen on YouTube, you'll need to charge your cases with various loads in increments. . . like at .3 grs apart (for this sizes of cartridge) covering about 8 different loads. Then, on a target with a grid with dots for each load along a horizontal line so you can best distinguish variations in POI's relationship to the line, shoot 3 shot groups on each dot as a POA. Not only can the size of the group help you determine which load it best, but the POI relationship to the horizontal line and the shape of the groups will help you in determining which load works best out of your gun. How far you can go with adding more powder is such a test will be when you start seeing and feeling pressure signs (e.g. hard bolt lift, stiff ejection, ejector swipe, cratered primers). If start having these pressure signs, though you're not done with all that you've loaded for your test, STOP! You don't want to go any further.As a newbie to both the Forum and reloading, I would like to consult forum members on a few issues related to reloading the 308.
First of all, I am an amateur shooter, so far shooting rather with calibers: 7.62x54r, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 - using factory ammunition.
By chance, quite fortunately I recently bought a Russian Izhmash Record-1-308 rifle in .308 Win caliber. This is my first encounter with that caliber. Factory ammo is quite expensive ( I live in Europe, EU, Poland ), after shooting I am left with a factory shells, so I thought that I might try to use them and reload .308 for my rifle. Because the scale of reloading was to be rather small – after a net study and watched several YouTube videos on reloading ( I know now, it is not enough, and with a such tiny background I should not take that step – but it is too late ) – I bought a Lee Loader, thinking that it would be an inexpensive way to get a cheaper ammo.
And with a Lee Loader in one hand and a hammer in the other I’m stuck
I did not prepare the classic “ladder” of powder charges – I just focused on one, based on GRT Reloading software callculation. The first attempt to prepare ammunition, with only one powder charge selected, brought me 5-shots group of the size of 0,85 MOA at 100m. Not bad but not very good either. The problem is that having almost no knowledge of reloading, now I don't know if I should increase or decrease the powder load to make the group even tighter.
Working with a Lee Loader is not an easy task, so before I start to use the hammer again I'd like to know at least the direction - incerase or decrease the powder load?
Parameters: bullet : Hornady ELD-M 178gr, powder Lovex 73.6 - an equivalent let's say of Accurate 2520 - load : 41,15 gr, COAL : 72 mm = 2,83 inch. Shooting distance : 100 m, rifle rested on bipod, optics : PS-07 - magnification x7
View attachment 8119661
GRT software data for my "load": pressure : 3200 bar, muzzle velocity : 778 m/s, energy : 3495 J.
The rifle : Izhmash Record-1-308, cal. 308 Win, barrel : 650 mm, barrel twist 320 mm.
View attachment 8119662
Based on your data you've shared, I've done a rough calculation using QuickLoad (similar to the GTR you used), which I've used for a long time to help me with my load development. So, it looks to me like you can start with the load you have at 41.5 grs and do increments upwards from there (like 41.3, 41.6, 41.9, 42.2, 42.5, 42,8, 43.1.).
Note that I've based this on a case capacity of 55.5 gr H2O. More accurate calculation can be made (including with your GTR app) if one has measured the case volume of you're particular cartridges (need to measure at least 10 to get a good average to use). Also, you didn't state a temperature, which effects the calculations, so I just used 70°F.
Looking at your group, it looks surprisingly good considering your first loading and your rig's set up.
Getting the right powder load is not the only thing that can help to make groups tighter. Some will have to do with the details in your case preparation. Then there are other things too, like a more powerful scope (important if you just target shooting. . . as in, "aim small, hit small"). When doing load development, it's important to have a good front and rear rest. The smaller you want to get the less a bipod will help. And since trigger pull is also so very important when trying to get very tight groups, having a trigger that's adjusted to a light pull also helps a lot.
So, all of these things work together and should be addressed within the scope of your shooting goals.
Here's my QuickLoad calculations base on the data you've provided:
Thank you very much for the reply. With a factory ammo I got 0,72 – 0,75 MOA groups at 100m but only of 3 shots.
With that rifle - Record-1-308 and 100m distance normal result should be about 0,55-0,6 MOA. That's why I thought that with a "hand made" ammo I would be able to reach such result – that was an example of a wishful thinking. Human factor ( me and my shooting skills, not very high ) is also influencing the result. Rifle did its job - it was me who spoiled. After first try I got 0,85 MOA so was a little bit disappointed but now when I see it, I have to say that I was quite lucky, taking into account my very limited knowledge of reloading ( you've mentioned even a temperature - I did not think about temperature and its influence on the result ).
With a help of GRT software I wanted to stay on a very safe side of Pmax-25% pressure, that was the reason for 41,15 gr powder load - chosen on the basis of GRT calculation. Work with a Lee Loader and a hammer is time consuming and let's say not very pleasant, so now I’m thinking about a single stage press. Especially if 8 different loads should be prepared and tested.
If I understand you correctly the direction for development of my “load” is to increase the amount of powder, starting from the already tested 41,15 gr. I’ve got some empty brass from factory ammo fired from my Record-1 so I’ll try use them.
With a factory ammo I got 1,09 MOA at 200m ( 5-shots group ) and same 1,09 MOA at 300m ( 5-shots group ). I’d like to get a sub-MOA groups – perhaps my own “load” will help me get that result.
200 m
300m
With that rifle - Record-1-308 and 100m distance normal result should be about 0,55-0,6 MOA. That's why I thought that with a "hand made" ammo I would be able to reach such result – that was an example of a wishful thinking. Human factor ( me and my shooting skills, not very high ) is also influencing the result. Rifle did its job - it was me who spoiled. After first try I got 0,85 MOA so was a little bit disappointed but now when I see it, I have to say that I was quite lucky, taking into account my very limited knowledge of reloading ( you've mentioned even a temperature - I did not think about temperature and its influence on the result ).
With a help of GRT software I wanted to stay on a very safe side of Pmax-25% pressure, that was the reason for 41,15 gr powder load - chosen on the basis of GRT calculation. Work with a Lee Loader and a hammer is time consuming and let's say not very pleasant, so now I’m thinking about a single stage press. Especially if 8 different loads should be prepared and tested.
If I understand you correctly the direction for development of my “load” is to increase the amount of powder, starting from the already tested 41,15 gr. I’ve got some empty brass from factory ammo fired from my Record-1 so I’ll try use them.
With a factory ammo I got 1,09 MOA at 200m ( 5-shots group ) and same 1,09 MOA at 300m ( 5-shots group ). I’d like to get a sub-MOA groups – perhaps my own “load” will help me get that result.
Yes, I would say that getting a single stage press would be the best way for you to reach your goal and give you more control over how you load each cartridge.
Though I have no idea what seating dies you might have available to purchase, I'd recomend getting an arbor press and a seating die like this Wilson seating die. It'll give you more control over how uniform you can seat your bullets, which helps lot towards smaller groups and you can take it to a firing range to adjust seating depths when you get to the point of fine tuning your load.
You don't necessarily have to use your 41.15 grs as a starting point. You can use 8 steps below that or you can have the 41.15 in the middle of a set . . . the latter seems more appropriate based on what you've said here. Having it in the middle, you can see again if you might get a similar results, or maybe even better since any 5 shot group needs to be verified.
The more experience you get with reloading, the better you'll get. You'll be figuring out what works best for you and what doesn't and what you like and what you don't. LOL . . . be careful though, the precision reloading bug can bite you and get you diving into a deep, deep rabbit hole.
Jumping in to say - for a first effort, with a lee loader and a hammer, those results are not bad at all.
A Lee Loader can produce quite good ammunition, especially using cases that were fired through the same rifle.
Using a mallet instead of a press just seems primitive and might be a little slower. Using a Lee Loader, I like to weigh every powder charge.
Using a mallet instead of a press just seems primitive and might be a little slower. Using a Lee Loader, I like to weigh every powder charge.
This must be an advanced technique I have not learned yet, tapping the trigger 3 times before jerking it
What's you sweet spot for Varget, Lapua brass, and 168 ELD ? Searching hasn't turned up too much guessing it's going to be around 44.0 GN? It will be out of a 1-10 twist 26".
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New video is up with the 16" Christensen Arms MPR .308 Win. comparing my Dead Air Nomad-LT & my new ThunderBeast (TBAC) Magnus-HUB suppressor.
Chopped the barrel recently on my Savage 110 Elite Precision from 26” to 18”. Was a little worried when I took it to the range and the old loads it loved wouldn’t shoot under an inch. Thought I ruined it as this gun always shot .5’s or less with its favored loads. So I figured I’d give it a few changes and see what happens. Ran an OCW using Shooters World Precision and found that 42 to 43 grains was a pretty steady and predictable load. Narrowed it down further to 42.3. Seating depth test showed that it likes it shoved way up in the lands. So I loaded up some in both new Lapua LRP brass and some once fired FGMM brass. For now, it likes the Federal brass and is consistently .4 or better. In this case it’s a .294. Since I eventually want to switch over to all Lapua, a few more tweaks may be necessary. But man does this rifle shoot 175RDF’s good and even the Lapua .5’s and .6’s are good. All the info is on the target. Ask away if you have questions. Speed is always the last thing I do, so I should have it this coming weekend.
Just got some Hornady 195 gr ELD-M .308 hoping to run them for FTR. First loads I started out with my 178 gr charge at 46.8 then up to 47.6 gr
I was hoping for velocities around 2600 fps. Whoa!! the first load average was 2700 fps SD 10.1, then 47.6 running 2727 Av and a SD of 11.3
Accuracy was not good but after setting up some loads with lighter charges to try again I discovered I had the ogive jammed into the lands. Pushed the bullet in to a .020 jump gonna try again. The surprise of this is the velocity. I'm using Federal once fired brass and Wolf large rifle primers.
I was hoping for velocities around 2600 fps. Whoa!! the first load average was 2700 fps SD 10.1, then 47.6 running 2727 Av and a SD of 11.3
Accuracy was not good but after setting up some loads with lighter charges to try again I discovered I had the ogive jammed into the lands. Pushed the bullet in to a .020 jump gonna try again. The surprise of this is the velocity. I'm using Federal once fired brass and Wolf large rifle primers.
The twist rate doesn't effect pressure to any degree. I run a bunch of 308s 12, 10, 9, 8 twists.Howdy my .308 reloader's,
I feel like this question could be a thread in itself. But, I'll ask here first since it's pertinent to reloading for this cartridge.
The 2022 Hodgdon reloading manual shows a 1:12 twist barrel for all .308 Winchester data. Does barrel twist rate have any correlation to chamber pressures and reloading data? If so, how does that effect heavier .30 cal. projectiles in the .308 Win. case? I have a PVA 1:9, 24" M24 contour barrel on my R-700 action and wanting to push some 200.2 Bergers downrange. I ALWAYS start with the starting powder charge(per the manuals that I have) and worked my way upwards in 0.5 grain increments until the OCW is shot or pressure signs appear. However, my twist is faster and I'm uncertain if that correlates to using the provided information correctly or safely. I certainly know the signs of creeping up on over pressures. Perhaps I'm considering a hair that doesn't need to be split, but It was cause for pause and a question worth discussing.
Thanks!
Barrrels 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 27, &... 30 inches 8 twist on a long action. I prefer 9 twist and heavy bullets and they will shoot bullets as light as 125 grs accurately. I chambered most of the barrels with the same reamer, but can shoot the same load in the 12, 10, 9, or 8 twist with no over pressure, barrels are 2 Bartleins , 2 Proof, 2 Schilen. I chronograph loads with several 308s at one time so I actually know what the velocity loss is in short barrels, and that an 8 twist will shoot 130 Speer in tiny groups as well as 200, 225, & 230 Atips.
LOL...I actually have a 30" plama weight 8 twist barrel in 308 W and it will go way over 3000 fps with 155 gr Sierra Palma bullets.
The manuals do not state a different powder charge for every 223 load, with a different barrel twist, you could have a 12, 9, 8, or 7 for your 40 gr Nosler BT varmint bullet...same powder charge in the manual regardless of twist..
(I even have a 6 twist 223)... my Ratchet rifling Schilen 8 twist AR loves 40 gr Nosler BT shot 12 into .590" with an 8 twist. And a Proof Research SS 10 twist AR 10 18" 308 likes 130 gr Speer Varmint and W748 LC brass 5 shots in .3" and .4" back to back loaded on a Dillion progressive. And the 8 twist 30" Palma will shoot the 130s into .3" as well as the 225 ELDM or the 200.2 Berger, with different powders.
Hornady radar information on their site shows a significant advantage to a faster twist barrel as holding much higher BCs across the board, especially interesting for LR shooters, check out the information. Why all my new 308s are 9 and 8 twists, it's been all positive, high BC heavy bullets different powders, more mag capacity, 2.980" in SA detachable mag even long action with 3.4" detachable mags ...now ya have a 308 PRC. With .715 BC 200 gr at 2860 fps or .777 and .8 plus BC in the 225 and 230s at 2675 to 2630 fps..over 3600 ft/ lbs of muzzle energy, in Lapua brass & with the hybrid cases push it to 3800 ft/ lbs.
I ran the 168 match to 3255 fps in an 8 twist 30" barrel and hybrid SS cases, just incase ya want to know what an 8 twist 308 30" Palma can do...but not readily available to the general public.
New video is up comparing my Dead Air Nomad-LT and TBAC Magnus-HUB with my subsonic handloads in my 16" Christensen Arms MPR .308 Win.
Base to begin with for Tikka T3X CTR .308 WIN 20" factory barrel
RWS brass, fully sized, trimmed to 51.00mm / 2.008"
CCI Primer
VV N140 39.9grains
Hornady ELD-X 178grains
COAL 71.50mm / 2.815"
Repeatable result 10 shot group from bipod, No rear bag @100m / about 100yards.
More finetuning could improve the results.
V0 not yet measured.
Tobias
RWS brass, fully sized, trimmed to 51.00mm / 2.008"
CCI Primer
VV N140 39.9grains
Hornady ELD-X 178grains
COAL 71.50mm / 2.815"
Repeatable result 10 shot group from bipod, No rear bag @100m / about 100yards.
More finetuning could improve the results.
V0 not yet measured.
Tobias
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It will be on the slow side, but it shoots great.
Another sweetspot seems to be 40.4 grain N140 under either a 167,168 or 175 grain VLD bullet, like the Scenar or SMK. Me and friends have shot it in both Sako TRGs and Tikka T3s, and next month I will shoot some in some large frame ARs too see if it works there as well.
Yes, might be a little bit slow but it's precise and works great on dear and hogs from 30m to 200m. That's my normal shooting distances here in Germany.
Will change to CX 150grains bullets next year. Will be interesting to see how they perform.
Will change to CX 150grains bullets next year. Will be interesting to see how they perform.
Here's some info using that data you supplied (note that without velocity info I'm limited to QuickLoads default powder burn rate, so it's nothing more than to give you ballpark ideas):
Thank you.
Used GRT when build this load. 39.9 and indeed 40.4 were the two sweet spots. But haven't spend any money yet for a speedo.
But, for me, it showed that using 40.4 grains doesn't improve accuracy, but there is some unburned powder compared to 39.9grains which causes some more trouble using my NV device while hoghunting.
I have about 200 rounds left of this load. After unloading them hot, I will change to leadfree bullets due to new state laws and maybe try alternate powders.
I have shot this load out to 1290, it has been crazy accurate for me.
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