338 Norma Magnum

#301
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2RECON</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macssubmoa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not wanting to fight or argue but I was wondering from 10XRIFLE remember that you said physics rule. This being said there is know way possible to run a 300 grainer out of a 338 Lapua at 3000 Ftps in a 28" barrel with out going into over pressure. If you are loading things this way I would suggest a pressure trace system. According to my cal.Max allowable pressure for the 338 Lapua is 68168 psi and if you load 91.8gr of VV N560 you will be around 2999 ftps with only about 89656 psi (ouch that might hurt).
Best of luck with that load and GOD bless,
SISO, I was wondering, what 338 Bergers are you shooting and where did you find them? I talked to Eric the other day and he told me they didn't have any out yet.
Just me thinking, </div></div>

Just checked it........the international standart (CIP) gives a max allowed pressure of 4200 bar= 60916psi for the .338LM
The 4700bar=68168psi was long long ago when the 338 was in it´s first steps of design at Lapua. There are only 2 Rounds out there with a max allowed pressure of 68168 psi. The 7mm KM and the 7,62UKM.

Best
2RECON

Edit: And a 9,5TORNADO (375"-.338LM ) also 68168psi.....sorry </div></div>

FYI, new VV N570 will give highest MV:s nowdays.

 
#302
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

338norma2.jpg

side by side pic.......(Lapua on right)
 
#303
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Norma will be offering Factory Ammunition by mid year loaded with 300grn Sierra, A molly coated match HP, and 225grn TTSX. So far tests have shown that out of a 26" barrel the Norma and Lapua will deliver exactly the same velocity with the 300grn bullets...but of course, the Norma will fit into an AI mag when loaded with the 300grn bullet.

The 225grn TTSX are for guys like me who wish to enjoy some intermediate range baboon culling....300-750m
 
#306
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Shooters,

What size shell holder are you using for the .338 Norma Mag?
I tried a #14 RCBS and it didn't work! I called Redding and they said it would and they make the dies for it. Not sure if the brass I have is right or not? It was an early lot I'm told.

Thanks,
Tom Sarver
 
#307
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Redding Shell Holder #35
Lee Universal #8

And the 1st Run of Brass is structerd same as production run,the RCBS #14 did not work for me either .
 
#309
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Have none,

Thank you for your reply. I'll order them Monday.

I'm excited to see how this new project, 30/338 Norma mag works compared to the Hulk. Monday I'm starting the tuning/testing.

Tom Sarver

MOSS8800

Still want the .338 Lapua or you wanna try this?
 
#311
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

The new stuff shoots. Just over half minute at 400 yds this afternoon. Windage was sub half minute. Elevation was just over 1/2 minute (2.6" avg of 10 shot strings, 30 rounds total. Smallest was 1.75", side to side). Sorry, no pics today. 24" barrel = 2775 fps @ about 64kpsi. 26" barrel should be right about 2850 fps, with a 300 grain honker... Finally. I'm going on vacation, no kidding!
 
#312
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The new stuff shoots. Just over half minute at 400 yds this afternoon. Windage was sub half minute. Elevation was just over 1/2 minute (2.6" avg of 10 shot strings, 30 rounds total. Smallest was 1.75", side to side). Sorry, no pics today. 24" barrel = 2775 fps @ about 64kpsi. 26" barrel should be right about 2850 fps, with a 300 grain honker... Finally. I'm going on vacation, no kidding! </div></div>

What new stuff?????

And can I get some of the new stuff? (of course I bought 8 pounds of RSM yesterday LOL)

One more -- you think a 28 inch barrel would get any additional velocity?
 
#316
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Blaser gun

the New Blaser .338 is slightly longer 63,5mm vs 63,13mm for the Norma.

The Blaser is based on the .404 case (13,5mm case head) with reduced taper and a conventional 30deg shoulder. The Norma is basecd on the .416 rigby - 14,9mm case head.

Have loaded ammo for both in front of me - but only been able to play out to 300m today.

the .338 blaser was designed from the ground up as a hunting cartridge although the Aussies and a couple of others are looking at it for sniping purposes. It was intended to be at it's best with 225grn Barnes TTSX or equivalent bullets. It is easy to convert a .300 Win to .338 Blaser and gain a 15% increase in performance with little modification.

the .338 Norma was designed to meet a US Military request - ie it is a long range sniper/ target round. It might make a great hunting round - but I don't think it would do anything the .338 Blaser would do in that field. (I don't think it ethical to shoot large plains game at over 300m - 400m at max and the Blaser does all that is required there)

For sniping... in a 26" barrel the Norma and Lapua deliver exactly the same velocity with 300grn bullets with the powders I have. As barrel length increase so the Lapua edges ahead - but not as much as the extra case size would make you think.
 
#321
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Ok...

From a 26" barrel!

Powders are canister and may be slightly different from what you would get in cans!!!! NB- these are nearly max loads so drop load a good few grains to start!!!!

Oryx 230grn

URP 82grns for 2972fps
MRP 90grns for 3000fps

Sierra 250grn mach king

URP 81 for 2880fps
MRP 88 for 2940fps
MRP 2 94 for 2980fps


Sierra 300grn mach king

MRP 80 for 2630fps
MRP 2 85 for 2670fps

These are all 10 shot averages and well within CIP pressures

of course if we swich to stuff not available to the public we can add 100fps to those - but that doesn't help you!
 
#322
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 737SHARK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the best powder for the 338 NORMA Magnum </div></div>

The following has been suggested to me:

RL-22 83.5 to 85.0 3.602 OAL 26.0 BBL 300gr Sierra
Fed 215M

RamShot Magnum 90.0 to 92.5 WLRM 3.602 26.0 BBL 300gr Sierra

I have only used RSM so far with good accuracy and velocity out to 2825 or so with 92.5.

 
#325
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Witt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have any load data or a starting point using Hodgdon US869 and 300gr SMK's?</div></div>

Somewhere in the 8 pages of this thread there is 869 data....
 
#326
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ganyana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blaser gun

the New Blaser .338 is slightly longer 63,5mm vs 63,13mm for the Norma.

The Blaser is based on the .404 case (13,5mm case head) with reduced taper and a conventional 30deg shoulder. The Norma is basecd on the .416 rigby - 14,9mm case head.

Have loaded ammo for both in front of me - but only been able to play out to 300m today.

the .338 blaser was designed from the ground up as a hunting cartridge although the Aussies and a couple of others are looking at it for sniping purposes. It was intended to be at it's best with 225grn Barnes TTSX or equivalent bullets. It is easy to convert a .300 Win to .338 Blaser and gain a 15% increase in performance with little modification.

the .338 Norma was designed to meet a US Military request - ie it is a long range sniper/ target round. It might make a great hunting round - but I don't think it would do anything the .338 Blaser would do in that field. (I don't think it ethical to shoot large plains game at over 300m - 400m at max and the Blaser does all that is required there)

For sniping... in a 26" barrel the Norma and Lapua deliver exactly the same velocity with 300grn bullets with the powders I have. As barrel length increase so the Lapua edges ahead - but not as much as the extra case size would make you think. </div></div>


I have a 1:10 twist .338 ss Pac-Nor match barrel on my Sako TRG 42. Palma contour, 26". Pac-Nor reamed it to .338Win and I improved the chamber to .338/300 which, after owning a .338RUM gives me all the performance I need.

How do you make a .404 Jeffrey case dimension from a .300 win case?

I like the .338/300 for its modest powder burning; longer barrel life and manageable recoil w/o brake. Plus its versatility. I have loaded with 250gr bullets and XMR 4350 at 65gr where it recoils about like a .308win and have found my stopping point at almost 80gr of same powder.

I have a Rem 700 sporter barrel in .338/300 which I carry in the field in Alaska if out for moose. Great accuracy and lightweight. The TRG 42 has plenty of room in the magazine and my twist rate allows for 300gr bullets. If our local 1000yd range comes on line this Summer, I may have a chance to finally shoot the 42 at some distance. At about 14lbs with scope it is a manageable field rifle and not a crew served weapon.

Ballistics in the .338/300 are on par with the .330 Dakota and .340Wby which is within about 100fps of the RUM. The chamber is set to headspace on the shoulder not the rim, and I set the oal to be about .001 longer than unfired W-W .300 mag cases, which are used as-is once necked up. Have thought of ordering an AI reamer, but not really much need to improve this case any further.

Very interesting to read about the Norma, even if few of these rifles are actually meant to be fired offhand or deployed to be fielded by a solitary rifleman.
 
#327
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Judging by my group with US 869, I'd guess @ 98 grains. Your results may vary. Start low and work up. You can put 98+ grains in the case with US 869 because the powder density is so high. I measured available case capacity in water of 95.5 grains.
 
#329
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Swamper
The blaser case is 8 thou fatter than a .300 Win mag is across the belt. Sticking in a .338 Blaser reamer would open up the chamber to accept the fatter (beltless) case and should need no other alterations. NB should. Some rifles will- of course- give feeding trouble!
 
#330
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Ok I have bitten the bullet and am now definietly chambering for the .338 Norma Magnum as i have a surgeon XL with the standard AI mag system. For me it makes sense I have a more powerful ELR rifle and The issue of correct seating wether it really is an issue or not was bothering me so I may as well adress it and build the rifle in a chambering a that BEST suits the components I have purchased.
 
#332
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Out of an AI and comparing with the .338 Lapua loaded for the dutch army...an extra 1000 rnds (2200 vs 3200) before 300m groups opened to be statistically significant. .338 Norma test barrel with 300grn MK lasted 4100 rnds before it needed changing.
 
#341
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ganyana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of an AI and comparing with the .338 Lapua loaded for the dutch army...an extra 1000 rnds (2200 vs 3200) before 300m groups opened to be statistically significant. .338 Norma test barrel with 300grn MK lasted 4100 rnds before it needed changing. </div></div>

This is a significant increase in barrel life........hard to fathom as its only reduced powder capacity by 4-5 gr I beleive. I have ordered 300 cases for the 338 Norma mag, I cant wait for them to get here to have a look, it may be the first example of a .338 Norma Mag in Australia when its finished.
 
#342
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Powder capacity difference is a bit more than that.

Part of the difference is that the dutch army wanted max velocity with a 225grn bullet - which they got. With the newer Swiss and American powders the temperatur is down, and with the 225grn loads the .300 Norma is quite a bit slower than the .338 lapua.

In 300grn the differences are much less - and the barrel on your .338 lapua would last longer if you used 300grn bullets, new St Marks powder and backed off from full power by 5%
 
#343
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Couple of questions regarding the 338 NM w/ 300gr SMK...

1. I'm getting ready to cut a Kreiger #17, 4 groove, 9.3 twist chambered in 338 NM. What lenght is optimum for this cartridge 26, 27, 28?

2. Has anyone tried the 300 SMK with Boron Nitride coating in the 338 NM or 338 Lapua and what pros/cons would there be with utilizing Boron Nitride coating?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
#344
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

FK300,

I have not used h-BN to coat bullets, but then I would not coat them with WS2, or MoS2 either. It makes much more sense to coat the bore using a 100% isopropyl alcohol carrier, and then burnish the bore with dry material following evaporation of the alcohol.

From a chemistry standpoint, h-BN has the highest heat resistance, and will not form unwanted sulphur compounds. A possible drawback to h-BN is particle size. Commercial grades are typically ten times coarser, which could be an issue if lands are textured to retain a solid lubricant.

Best,
Noel
 
#346
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

FK300,

Are you sure that Krieger is a 4 groove? Take a look at that bore or your production report. Unless you specified a 4 groove when ordering they prolly defaulted to a 6 groove. Either way, I'm sure it will shoot small.

Good luck,
Terry
 
#347
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Hello Terry,

It's a 4 grove. You're correct Kreiger did try and make it a 6 groove, but I've had such great luck with my 4 groove on my 6.5-284, I wanted to try the 4 groove, plus was thinking that the 4 groove may have a little less wear on the throat...probably a miscalculation or ignorance on my part. If it doesn't shoot...do you recommend the next barrel be a 6 groove?

The bushings I have for my reamer didn't fit the bore...still a little too tight...the smallest bushing I had was a .2998. (Correction .3298)
crazy.gif
 
#348
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I understand. All of my smaller bores are their 4 groove profile. They tend to go with more grooves on the larger bores .338 and up. I'm sure there are pros and cons for both. I know that anytime you add a groove to a cut rifled process, it takes more time and money. Since they don't charge more for the 6 groove, I figured they must have had their reasons for moving in that direction.

I very sincerely believe that your barrel will shoot great even if it was a 3 groove. If for some reason, you have issues, I wouldn't think the number of grooves would be the culprit.

When you zero your blank, take a micro boring bar and feather a couple of very light passes over their center drill recess to insure there is not ding or edge right at the termination of the lands that could affect your bushing sliding in smoothly.

You must have typed the wrong size bushing. The .2998 would have been about right for a .30 cal.

Good luck,
Terry
 
#349
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Hey Terry,

I greatly appreciate your input. You are correct about the bushing...I should read what I type first before I hit the send button. The bushing was a .3298. My inventory of bushings go from .3298 - .3308...so I just had Dave Kiff send me 4 more bushings in .0002 increments smaller. Hopefully that will do the trick.

I was talking to a mutual acquantaince this evening, he spoke very highly of you....Mark S.

Mark S., myself and a dozen others from the sacramento area are shooting a tac match in So Cal in a couple of weeks so we were B.S.ing about it since he shot there last year.

Thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions.

Francis
 
#350
Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Any update on the St. Mark's powder becoming availible to the public ? And has anyone done any load developement with it ?
At present I am using H1000 and Retumbo, but would like to find out more about this powder.
 
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