338 Norma Magnum

[C.K]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Ramshot Mag and r22(little fast) is what to use for the norma. You can forget about the St marks powder for now as hodgen cant keep up with what they have now.
Yes, there are people using the poeder, I know of 2 builders that got there hands on some OBT715 but its not for the regular reloaders.

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Thanks, CK
I have load data on those 2 powders from Jimmy Sloan, but I am using Hodgdon extreme powders for now, as that is what I have alot of on hand. Just curious about the St. Marks as far as performance and availability.

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Bluejazz,

What kind of load data in H1000 are you having any luck with? I know a lot of people are using Ramshot Magnum and RL22...just curious to try H1000 since I have an extra pound of it.

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I am reloading for a 30 cal wildcat on the 338 Norma case. Using 90-92 gr of H1000 and Retumbo. Getting 3150-3200fps with the 210 Berger's.

 

[jasonk]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am reloading for a 30 cal wildcat on the 338 Norma case. Using 90-92 gr of H1000 and Retumbo. Getting 3150-3200fps with the 210 Berger's.</div></div>

Where'd you get the dies and who'd you have chamber it?

J

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

custom dies

 

[ganyana]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

load data

250grn Sierra MK RWS primer 26"AI

coal 88.8mm
94,5grns Norma MRP 2 for 2985fps (10 shot ave)

300grn Sieera MK, RWS Primer out of 26"AI
COAL 91,4

85grns MRP 2 for 2668fps (10 shot ave)

Some of the reloader series of powders are made by Norma....so you should find an equivalent to MRP 2.

The new St Marks powders will only be available in factory ammo initially!

Loading dies and reamers. Pacific Tools (Dave Kiff) made the official ones for Norma/AI and used for the CIP standardisation, so he should have the dimentions exactly right!

 

[737shark]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Who makes the custom dies?

 

[ganyana]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Pacific too & Guage Co

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I did not know PTG made reloading dies? I purchased my set from Hornady.

 

[Adam B]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I have forster dies

 

[shpanther]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Hey look,,,page nine!!!

,,,Neil Jones,I think,,,

 

[pc3]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RWSGunsmithing</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did not know PTG made reloading dies? I purchased my set from Hornady. </div></div>

I wonder how long before redding make dies in there S Match ? I am trying to get some brass form the states at the moment. I am committed to this over the .338 lapua as it makes SO much more sense if you have a action with standard AI Mags.

 

[7mmNorma]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Hey look,,,page nine!!!

Nope, page 5 of 5.

 

[pc3]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I suppose they would if you paid enough LOL

 

[Ed Baker]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Talked with a rep at BHSS today and he said they have a 2 month back order on the brass.

 

[shooter308]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I like the 308 norma magnumn but have never had dealing with this one. Sound like the ones that have really liked it. Maybe I should looking to know ED BAKER?

 

[jasonk]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

My 338 Norma Mag....couple more weeks and I'll actually shoot it.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1251574#Post1251574

 

[david777]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Has anyone tried to reform 338 Lapua brass to 338 Norma? If so, how many steps did it take? From what I can tell, there is no Norma 338 brass available anywhere.

 

[pc3]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I think Sinclairs or Huntingtons may have some cases left and BHSS is a couple of months away. I paid the premium from one of the afore mentioned shops as I just wanted to get some as I bit the bullet and changed my .338 LM build to the Norma as I have the standard AI Mags. I am glad I have gone to the trouble my cases should be here any day. I am looking forwards to getting my Norma Mag!!

I dont think its very practical to re-do Lapua brass I raised a thread on that as well and it was kind of "not worth it".

 

[david777]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Thanks pc3, I tried both places about 2 weeks ago and they were sold out. I didn't think the Lapua to Norma thing would be so good but it doesn't hurt to ask. My rifle is ready this week so I'll have to go with the 100 pcs of brass I have until more is available. If the enthusiasm of the people I have spoken with who are shooting this cartridge is an indicator, this should be very good.

 

[pc3]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Yeh my I bet you cant wait !! I would get another 100-200 cases from BHSS when they become just will need to organise someone to post them out again.

My build is on a surgeon XL Lilja 30" aprox tube DE Break Manners T4A and I will run with plain old NXS 5-22x56 Mildot with Mil adj. Turrets.

You .338 Norma looks great !!

 

[david777]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

My build is using the Badger M2008 on an AICS with a 28" barrel MTU contour, not sure as to what brand as my gunsmith pulled some strings to get one in 2 weeks, and a Badger FTE. I will be using a Premier 5-25 with Badger rings. This will be my first bolt gun as everything else I own are AR style rifles. It looks identical to the build jasonk did except the action and barrel are being ceramic coated black.

I have an additional couple hundred cases on backorder. I was told about 6 weeks or so, I hope that is accurate.

 

[ganyana]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Need to put in your orders for .338 Norma brass with BHSS, Midway or cabellas. Have 60,000 cases sitting in Sweden but only BHSS have ordered any- they should be delivered by mid september.

 

[pc3]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Got my .338 Norma Cases today I REALLY like the looks of this case and I am very happy I made the effort to go to the trouble of getting some brass and canning the .338 LM build (seeing as i have standard AI mags). I was not going to do it at first as I was being lazy not wanting to fill in all the paper work etc. but I would not have been happy as after reading about this round I new its what I wanted. Thanks for all the good infromation here folks !!

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiCapMag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 737SHARK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the best powder for the 338 NORMA Magnum </div></div>

The following has been suggested to me:

RL-22 83.5 to 85.0 3.602 OAL 26.0 BBL 300gr Sierra
Fed 215M

RamShot Magnum 90.0 to 92.5 WLRM 3.602 26.0 BBL 300gr Sierra

I have only used RSM so far with good accuracy and velocity out to 2825 or so with 92.5.

</div></div>

Utilizing the suggestions posted on this site (starting with very low powder charges and working up), your velocity is spot on with 92.5. I had the same speeds with 92.5 and 2805 fps with 92.0 w/ RSM, using F215M, 27 inch Kreiger 1:9.3 twist (Awesome accuracy w/ 300gr SMK at 3.590).

I also tried H1000, couldn't get the velocity I wanted but good groups. RL25 was tested with poor groups and low velocity (2677-2700+/- with 86.0). US869 @ 98.0 was decent for groups but only got 2667+/- fps) couldn't get the velocity. I'm still trying to get a pound of RL22 to try...kind of hard to find nowdays.

Does anybody have an update on any St. Marks powder?

Other than what has been published for the 300 gr loading data, any load data or powder suggestions for the 250gr SGK (going hunting next month) would be greatly appreciated. (Something in addition to RL22).

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

FK300,
I would also give Retumbo a try. 93.5gr should give you 2740fps out of a 26" barrel. Also, try Vit N570, looks like that will give you good velocity as well. I have not tried the N570 yet myself, but plan to.

 

[pc3]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Anyone got any data with Retumbo and the 300 smk in the .338 Norma. I am thinking this might be the best powder that I can get for it here in Australia.

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FK300,
I would also give Retumbo a try. 93.5gr should give you 2740fps out of a 26" barrel. Also, try Vit N570, looks like that will give you good velocity as well. I have not tried the N570 yet myself, but plan to. </div></div>

Thanks Bluejazz, I'll go bum a bit of Retumbo from a frind of mine that has some laying around and I'll go purchase a pound of N570 for sure. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[HiCapMag]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

FK300, I would like to hear your results with Retumbo. I asked about that and it was suggested that it was a tad slow...but let us know.

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiCapMag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FK300, I would like to hear your results with Retumbo. I asked about that and it was suggested that it was a tad slow...but let us know.

</div></div>

I'll try Retumbo hopefully by the end of the week. I'm curious about N570, as suggested by bluejazz. It might work since it's slow and dense....kind of like me!

I wonder if anybody else has tried some of the other N5XX or N1XX Vihtavouri powders and what results they got???

I just skimmed the web site at Powder Valley, but they don't list it...so it's off hunting other web sites, local gun shops and fellow reloaders for some.

 

[david777]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

There is a load on this topic for RL22 listed by Have None. According to the Vihtavouri site, IMR 7828SSC, N165, Magpro and perhaps W780 Supreme are all in the same burn rate range as RL22. Has anyone tried any of these powders for the Norma?

I friend of mine uses N165 in his Lapua 338 and swears by it. RL22 is impossible to find at this point.

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I don't even think n570 is avalible yet. This is the email I got from I beleive is the imorter.

Dear Robert,

The N570 will not be available until end of 1st quarter in 2010.
PLease check back then and I will be able to tell you a more specific date at that time.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Best regards.

Jeannie Bolda
Product Manager
Kaltron Outdoors ...........
Vihtavuori, Lapua, B & P Shells and MSA/Sordin Ear Muffs
Hengye USA Adsorbents

 

[300sniper]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FK300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm still trying to get a pound of RL22 to try...kind of hard to find nowdays.</div></div>

i have some r22 that i am not using anymore. it was a 5lb keg and i would guess there is about 2 or so pounds left. if you are coming out to the range this weekend, i'll bring it with me.

 

[ganyana]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Ramshot magnum is giving the highest velocities so far.

New St marks powder gives 2740fps with 300grn sierra at factory pressures (ie safely below CIP max to allow for problems). Accuracy though is superb.

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ganyana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ramshot magnum is giving the highest velocities so far.

New St marks powder gives 2740fps with 300grn sierra at factory pressures (ie safely below CIP max to allow for problems). Accuracy though is superb. </div></div>

Sure would be nice to get a hold of a small sample to try out without purchasing a box of ammo equal to the price of a 5lb jug.

 

[C.K]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

My gun did'nt like r22 82gn over presured my gun(maybe its my lot of powder), RSM I can go to 93gn and just start to see presure.

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My gun did'nt like r22 82gn over presured my gun(maybe its my lot of powder), RSM I can go to 93gn and just start to see presure. </div></div>

I haven't tried RL22 yet out of the 338NM, but a good friend of mine that shoots a 338LM was using RL19 out of a 24" barrel (McMillian Rifle build) got good groups and nominal pressure with one lot of powder and overpressure and bad groups with different lot of RL19, using the same weight powder charge.

Is this typical of RLXX powders? No intention of offending anyone that has good experience with RLXX powders...just looking for advice/info.

 

[pc3]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiCapMag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FK300, I would like to hear your results with Retumbo. I asked about that and it was suggested that it was a tad slow...but let us know.

</div></div>

If Retumbo proves to be a tad slow well H1000 might be a good Choice ?

For what its worth I am going to try a 30" barrel on mine (can alwasy chop later if it gets too much)I am hoping with 30" tube to get around 2900 fps with the 300 SMK

 

[Nostradumbass]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Hello, I've been putting rounds through my 338 Norma for a little while now with superb results. Lapua is making a 300gn. 338 bullet with a higher BC than the 300gn matchking.....has anyone considered trying this bullet in the Norma application? Thanks for your time, Phillip.

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiCapMag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FK300, I would like to hear your results with Retumbo. I asked about that and it was suggested that it was a tad slow...but let us know.

</div></div>

Stealing a quote from a previous post of yours: Warning, if you use these loads in your rifle without working up, it may kill you and everyone you know and destroy life on the planet as we know it!

I shot 50 rounds from 200 - 1000 yards Saturday in 60 degree, gusting switching winds (7-15mph from 9 o'clock, then calm, then 7-10mph from 3 o'clock...all within a few minute time period) groups were excellent out to 600 yards with 92.0 gr of RSM, 3.590 with 300 SMK & F215M primer. 800 - 1000 yards I had very little vertical dispersion but the horizontals, (100% miscalculating the gusty wind conditions so the wind kicked my ass) left a little to be desired at the longer distances. Half the box of 50 cartridges was brass that had been formed fired and full length sized (.001 reduction in the shoulder) and the other half was new. The brass, that was formed fired, after firing was a little sticky in the chamber. No problems opening the Stiller TAC338 bolt but the case required a little tug (couple of pounds) to dislodge. Using the exbal program for conditions and calculating 2805 for velocity, MOA elevation calculation was spot clear out to 1K. I think I'll try to lower the load to 91.5 to see if I can eliminate future chamber "sticky" problems.

I hadn't had time to reload Retumbo...but will hopefully this week. I did get a chance to load a dozen rounds using RSM on new cases to check pressure using a 250 gr Sierra Game King (hopefully a successful Moose load next month).

The grouping was excellent @ 100 yards. Semi-Bug hole (every round touching) for all test loads. I used 95, 96, 97 & 98 grains of RSM. No pressure problems with 95 & 96 gr but 97 and 98 were just a little sticky in the chamber (although the primers did not indicate pressure problems). I forgot the chronograph...so I can't tell you the speed. I'll update soon on more powder trials and 250 Gr SGK speeds and performance at longer distances.

 

[HiCapMag]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Thanks for the report.

Can we make this 10 pages LOL.

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pwhite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello, I've been putting rounds through my 338 Norma for a little while now with superb results. Lapua is making a 300gn. 338 bullet with a higher BC than the 300gn matchking.....has anyone considered trying this bullet in the Norma application? Thanks for your time, Phillip. </div></div>

I was seriously looking at these and my only concern is that I won't be able to fit them in my AI mags without seating them unnecessarily too deep. My speculation is based on reading load data on Lapua's website on the loaded 338LM w/ 300 gr Senars the published OAL is 3.681. Assuming that this is the proper seating depth I would need to seat them back +/- .079 deeper to make them fit into my DM box. For those boxes I think the max OAL +/-is 3.602 for both 338LM & 338NM. http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upload/esitteet/338LapuaMagnum300grScenar2009.pdf

Please advise if assumption or data is off.

Thank you.

 

[david777]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Just Roy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well seeing as how the cat is very quickly escaping the bag.

left is .338 Lapua Mag factory loading w/ 250 Scenar
right is .338 Norma Mag with 300 SMK

Scott can't say I'll instantly convert my LM into Jimmy's cartridge but it won't be long before my Lapua dies and brass will be for sale. </div></div>

FK300,

I just measured the 300 gr SMK and the 300 Scenar. The SMK is 1.72" and the Scenar is 1.74".

Plus from the photo, the Norma case is shorter than the Lapua case. I haven't loaded ether of these yet as my rifle was just completed so I'll see how the Scenar stacks up against the SMK. Also, Have None (who developed the cartridge) communicated to me when loading the Scenar, back off the powder charge 1.5 - 2 grains as the Scenar develops more pressure. Hope any of this helps.

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David777</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Just Roy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well seeing as how the cat is very quickly escaping the bag.

left is .338 Lapua Mag factory loading w/ 250 Scenar
right is .338 Norma Mag with 300 SMK

Scott can't say I'll instantly convert my LM into Jimmy's cartridge but it won't be long before my Lapua dies and brass will be for sale. </div></div>

FK300,

I just measured the 300 gr SMK and the 300 Scenar. The SMK is 1.72" and the Scenar is 1.74".

Plus from the photo, the Norma case is shorter than the Lapua case. I haven't loaded ether of these yet as my rifle was just completed so I'll see how the Scenar stacks up against the SMK. Also, Have None (who developed the cartridge) communicated to me when loading the Scenar, back off the powder charge 1.5 - 2 grains as the Scenar develops more pressure. Hope any of this helps.
</div></div>

Well...now I need to place an order for Scenar's.

 

[C.K]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Jimmy is correct, with 300gn scenars 91.5 works great were 93 is good for the sierra's 300gn. The lapuas shoot better out of my gun though.

 

[Cheese]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I do enjoy watching all of this.
Jimmie should be and is very proud of the cartridge.
Just for the heck of it.
This was a plate of steel I shot with the Mr. Sloans first .338 cartridge. It surprised the living crap out of me.

It wasn't a ring when the rounds came in. It was more like a deep "thump" sound.

 

[300sniper]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cheese</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do enjoy watching all of this.
Jimmie should be and is very proud of the cartridge.
Just for the heck of it.
This was a plate of steel I shot with the Mr. Sloans first .338 cartridge. It surprised the living crap out of me.

It wasn't a ring when the rounds came in. It was more like a deep "thump" sound.
</div></div>

it probably really scared the hell out of the dozer operator

 

[1SMALLJOHNSON]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

The new SMP powder - I'm clocking 2825 fps, out of a 26" tube, within safe pressures. YMMV. Don and I are within the ball park. Depends on barrel length. Charge weight was 94.5 grains. 1000 yard accuracy was quite good. Shot more than 300 rounds one day, and if wind call was right, we were ~ 3 to 5 inches @ distance.

 

[david777]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The new SMP powder - I'm clocking 2825 fps, out of a 26" tube, within safe pressures. YMMV. Don and I are within the ball park. Depends on barrel length. Charge weight was 94.5 grains. 1000 yard accuracy was quite good. Shot more than 300 rounds one day, and if wind call was right, we were ~ 3 to 5 inches @ distance. </div></div>

Any idea when this powder will available to the public?