Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TH
Not to long ago 1" was the Holy Grail, Please define "not to long ago'... as Mike your hero has been offering it for more than 15 years and pretty sure bench resters were doing it for a heck of a lot longer. 1" was a practical field standard not the end all be all.
Quick question what do you see as a target @ 3000 to 5000 yards ?
Anti Material ?
Anti Personal ?
or you are just figuring someone is going to be able to shoot at something ? What rocks on the side of a hill, or something more tangible like an actual target and record this group ? In your experience what do you find as a good size target for your ULR shooting ?
Do you see this weapon as being single man portable, crew served, how do you envision the 5k capable weapon of the future being moved from FOB to FFP ?
Generally speaking most places that allow you shoot that far, not all but most, are at altitude so you get a significant advantage ballistically by the elevation. However there is the issue of moving, spotting that far, I mean your average reticle is gonna cover more than 15" so that sort of creates a problem trying to get a 12.5" group when your reticle is bigger. Unless you design a reticle-less scope. I mean, I was at 13,000ft yesterday and could easily see that far, (5k) not that I could identify anything, but I could see that far. The DA high for that altitude was about 17,000 so a bullet will surely fly well. But there was a lot more obstacles to over come, like the Wind in the Mountains, as in CO or Afghanistan, they don't have those perfect conditions you spoke of earlier. At 12,000 ft the wind was 12.9MPH at 13,000ft the wind was 3MPH sort of goes against conventional wisdom, but how they move in around the mountains is a trick by itself. Up drafts, ski jumps, funnels, all play a roll. not only with windage, but with elevation. Then there is signature, is it worth exposing yourself for a single shot that far away ? Would a laser guided munition be a better guarantee, I mean a radio is the Sniper's most powerful weapon. But I am sure you realize that.
Still I would like a question or two answer as to where this fits in the grand scheme of things. Because dropping a round that far is one thing, getting close, okay, sure, but generally people don't stand still, and vehicles might need a bit more energy, maybe you can punch a hole in a missile on a pad, but there is still getting in and getting out to deal with, lastly for a civilian this is barely gonna happen as the world is certainly getting smaller as nobody is making more land. Space is of a finite quantity and we are rapidly filling it up with people. So where does this fit.
Shooting that far might not be an issue, identifying and hitting where you aim, well that is another story. </div></div>
All valid points and in essence asking "just what is the point of the excercise"??
By the 1930's we allready had efficient and accurate light artillery pieces that where capable of slinging a 3.5lb shell to 2500m+ and with quite exceptional accuracy. They could certainly place a shell within 2-5m of a man sized target at that distance.
Propellant, projectiles and sighting systems all have lept forward and systems like these are capable of not only direct line of sight fire but can be used to fire over cover at great distance. In terms of cost they are also vastly cheaper than many of our current shoulder fired missile options.
So again,...just what point does a shoulder fired 5k rifle serve?
I think we are all pretty much agreed its an excercise in futillity???
