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6.5 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
Oh yeah. I also have their 540 and have been using 340 in my 9mm rounds for many years. At least 6or probably more. Lotsa bang there lol
N555 and 540 with 123 and 140 grain ELDM and BTHP bullet. Not 130 and not 550 lol.
What’s your question?
Yep same here ,as I use a pretty fair amount of various VV flavors . 140 ,160 ,540 ,550 , 555 , 560 and 568 for rifle and N320 pistol .
Can either of you tell the difference between a 130 and 140g? I think I can but maybe I'll have someone else load up my mag randomly and see if I can tell shooting them.
I guess I don't have a question. I'll figure it out myself, thanks.
Never shot the 130s. Shot some 120s but that was back in 2008 so no memory of the feel. Sorry.
I
I loaded 42 - 43 grains with 140 ELDM's in Peterson LP brass with CCI 34 primers in my AR. 42 grains gave me 2690 fps and 43 gave me 2735.
OK the quick and dirty as I have assignments due and NO I didn't setup My Labrador ,so NO ES SD data . Next time I'll do the whole enchilada but first must build a New Rifle bench ,My current one is smaller than I'd like . Seems I can't fit everything on it I'll need too . My shed bench is large enough but faces My Pistol range 0-60 Yd. only . So off to the Lumber Yahrd as the Chief constable in Young Frankenstein would say .
Did these tests whole lot different than I normally do . Shot #5 shot group in under #1 Minute ,allowed #5 minutes between groups. Including #20 shot group . Even put up virgin cardboard backers ,so NO fake BS . 165 Yd. & 278 Yd. breezy today started 12-15 Mph ,finished 18-21 Mph and they seemed to be drifting with the wind or I'm off center . I did adjust wind #2 clicks on StaBall but then ran it back . Best group N540 followed by StaBall . Funny IMR 4064 put #3 in near same hole after spreading 1 St. #2 !.
MY 129 gr. Hunting loads proved VERY respectful and their zinging fast ,I'll also run data on those next time ,as that's #20 into one oversized hole .
Overall I'm tickled shirtless with My Custom assembled Aero Precision 6.5 CM .
Did these tests whole lot different than I normally do . Shot #5 shot group in under #1 Minute ,allowed #5 minutes between groups. Including #20 shot group . Even put up virgin cardboard backers ,so NO fake BS . 165 Yd. & 278 Yd. breezy today started 12-15 Mph ,finished 18-21 Mph and they seemed to be drifting with the wind or I'm off center . I did adjust wind #2 clicks on StaBall but then ran it back . Best group N540 followed by StaBall . Funny IMR 4064 put #3 in near same hole after spreading 1 St. #2 !.
MY 129 gr. Hunting loads proved VERY respectful and their zinging fast ,I'll also run data on those next time ,as that's #20 into one oversized hole .
Overall I'm tickled shirtless with My Custom assembled Aero Precision 6.5 CM .
Attachments
I am currently running 43.5 grains 555 with large primer lapua, and BR 2 (or whatever the large bench rest primer is) at 2.875 col, both 140 ELDM and 140 bthp. I also am coating bullets with hBn. If you follow this charge etc it’s all on your responsibility.
very nice! I also like N540 as it is my 2nd choice (strictly subjective) behind N555.OK the quick and dirty as I have assignments due and NO I didn't setup My Labrador ,so NO ES SD data . Next time I'll do the whole enchilada but first must build a New Rifle bench ,My current one is smaller than I'd like . Seems I can't fit everything on it I'll need too . My shed bench is large enough but faces My Pistol range 0-60 Yd. only . So off to the Lumber Yahrd as the Chief constable in Young Frankenstein would say .
Did these tests whole lot different than I normally do . Shot #5 shot group in under #1 Minute ,allowed #5 minutes between groups. Including #20 shot group . Even put up virgin cardboard backers ,so NO fake BS . 165 Yd. & 278 Yd. breezy today started 12-15 Mph ,finished 18-21 Mph and they seemed to be drifting with the wind or I'm off center . I did adjust wind #2 clicks on StaBall but then ran it back . Best group N540 followed by StaBall . Funny IMR 4064 put #3 in near same hole after spreading 1 St. #2 !.
MY 129 gr. Hunting loads proved VERY respectful and their zinging fast ,I'll also run data on those next time ,as that's #20 into one oversized hole .
Overall I'm tickled shirtless with My Custom assembled Aero Precision 6.5 CM .
I don’t shoot 129, but I have shot 123 ELDM and used 40 grains of N540 at 2.8 col.
Otherwise I am all in on 140 grain with a side of 147’s .
I quashed my trip to the range until Friday or next week one day. We had a good amount of rain Monday-Tuesday and a stiff breeze as well after the system passed. Add to that I am lazy and it’s postponed LOL will post some picks of groups at 200 yds after I run. Looking to confirm and adjust settings for GRT. Using hBn has been a pain trying to get settings right. That initial pressure setting is how I am accounting for the hBn even though there is more involved.
I just checked something that was nagging me around the edges of my subconscious…. The energy at muzzle (per 4dof) for 123 grain ELDM is 2316. The energy at muzzle for 140 grain (17 grain difference) was 2193. And 130 was 2140. Between 130 and 140 the difference in energy is 53 ft-lbs. The difference in momentum (recoil) would be of a similar nature, no?
I have no experience trying to measure or calculate recoil. I just feel it. I quit the 30-06 because of recoil and went with cartridges of lesser reputation for recoil. Relatively close mass and speed between 130 and 140, correct? The energy of the 123 was due to a significant speed difference.
Am I incorrect in my approach to quantify recoil using energy (ft-lbs)? The alternative would be to actually calculate momentum and compare that.
Sorry but no idea if there is a similarity of muzzle energy and recoil when compared that way. Muzzle energy of my 153 load is 2447 ft/lbs and energy of my 140 ELD factory ammo is 2525 ft/lbs so they aren't far off.
I just calculated momentum (because I couldn’t not lol) and the difference was 6.6 ft-lbs. a tad over 10% difference (51 vs 57)
Again, I have no way to compare with real world recoil. 140 vs 147 is as close as I go and I haven’t noticed a difference there.
I also cannot answer that, however, it lines up with why my 142smk seems to be more difficult to control recoil.
At the muzzle:
153.5 LRHT 2650fps 2401 ft/lbs
142 SMK 2830fps 2525 ft/lbs
At the muzzle:
153.5 LRHT 2650fps 2401 ft/lbs
142 SMK 2830fps 2525 ft/lbs
I normally Don't shoot 129 gr. ,however Hornady supplied those ,so I being Me had to try them and truthfully can see those working well out to 500 yd. for medium size game . I normally shoot 140 ,143 gr. out of MY 6.5CM ,however having a lions share of major brands of bullets in near all flavors and weights I see No reason not to experiment
. I do get plenty of left over stock and thus allows Me to pick what works best in MY weapons.Wind Rain is settling back in for another few days it appears ,so inside the pistol shed as I'm gonna setup a recently purchased Labrador which is now MY own . I'm curious as how it functions relative to old Oehler 35 ?. Also I'll be returning a borrowed unit I've been using back to the owner .
Out of curiosity are You coating inside the neck W/hBn or the entire bullet ?.
I love to experiment with different components.I normally Don't shoot 129 gr. ,however Hornady supplied those ,so I being Me had to try them and truthfully can see those working well out to 500 yd. for medium size game . I normally shoot 140 ,143 gr. out of MY 6.5CM ,however having a lions share of major brands of bullets in near all flavors and weights I see No reason not to experiment
Wind Rain is settling back in for another few days it appears ,so inside the pistol shed as I'm gonna setup a recently purchased Labrador which is now MY own . I'm curious as how it functions relative to old Oehler 35 ?. Also I'll be returning a borrowed unit I've been using back to the owner .
Out of curiosity are You coating inside the neck W/hBn or the entire bullet ?.
Regarding coating, I coat the entire bullet. I place 50-100 bullets inside a container along with 1/8 tsp of the hBn and run in my tumbler for about an hour.
Less friction in the barrel, easier cleanup (almost nothing to clean) The main drawback is reduced velocity. But you can bump up charge a tad to get it back. My 224, after over 1k rounds, looked more like a new barrel than one with 1k rounds through it. The hBn is .5 micron size and exceedingly fine. After the tumbling I wipe the bullets and they still are slick as greased owl sh_t. Been using that for something over 6 or 7 years.
Have you ever just swabbed inside neck with hBn ,as opposed to rolling them into powder ?. Excellent Lube without near the velocity loss .
I know a couple of guys who do their bores ,with a caliber specific swab , I've never tried that one .
Now once the rain wind storm passes us ,a trip to the lumber yard and build a Bigger Better bench . I came to the realization mine ISN'T cutting it., too small can't put everything I need on it . Besides I need to do a gravel stepping stone foundation under the area ,so might as well just do it .
I should have made #2 of the inside pistol sheds shooting bench but wanted something semi portable ,piss on that idea now .
No, I have not tried that with the hBn, but I have tried it with graphite. Couldn’t tell any difference shooting-wise. I may give it a try with the hex boron next time I reload. The new bench sounds like a fun project. Good luck with that!Have you ever just swabbed inside neck with hBn ,as opposed to rolling them into powder ?. Excellent Lube without near the velocity loss .
I know a couple of guys who do their bores ,with a caliber specific swab , I've never tried that one .
Now once the rain wind storm passes us ,a trip to the lumber yard and build a Bigger Better bench . I came to the realization mine ISN'T cutting it., too small can't put everything I need on it . Besides I need to do a gravel stepping stone foundation under the area ,so might as well just do it .
I should have made #2 of the inside pistol sheds shooting bench but wanted something semi portable ,piss on that idea now .
For HbN bullet / BBl. treatments to get the full benefits of HbN you must start with a squeaky clean bore and bullets free of processing oils. When the bore is clean, mix some HbN with 99% alcohol [lesser % contains H2O] and swab the bore with this mix. repeat several times.
As to bullets , wash in Dawn and allow to dry. For rotary type tumblers , I've found that containers that fit 90* to the rotating axis work best for me.
"A picture is worth a thousand words". There are several U Tube videos on this subject.
As to bullets , wash in Dawn and allow to dry. For rotary type tumblers , I've found that containers that fit 90* to the rotating axis work best for me.
"A picture is worth a thousand words". There are several U Tube videos on this subject.
I have found swabbing the barrel unnecessary. The process involves wiping the bullets after application, does it not? They are almost too slick after wiping to hold. Secondly, as you shoot treated bullets the hBn will be deposited normally in the bore.
Lastly, what is there to control the level of application in the bore and how much is too much?
I relate swabbing / not swabbing to painting a piece of metal, if you don't start with a clean surface you are not doing much to protect or coat the metal.
How much is to much, run the mop across your palm , if the liquid runs , then the mop is to wet , run it across the containers top to remove any excess.
What I do is run the mop in and out of the bore, then let it set while I tend to other chores ,come back in an Hr.or so and repeat the in an out and I'm through.
As to the bullets, after tumbling them in containers with BB's, I dump them into a colander to separate, then dump the bullets into a towel , then into either the OME box or a small container that fits on the shelves in my reloading room
Don't know for sure , but after the pores in the bore are full any excess should be blown out the muzzle.
I feel like using HbN comes under the classification , " If you think it works , then is does".
How much is to much, run the mop across your palm , if the liquid runs , then the mop is to wet , run it across the containers top to remove any excess.
What I do is run the mop in and out of the bore, then let it set while I tend to other chores ,come back in an Hr.or so and repeat the in an out and I'm through.
As to the bullets, after tumbling them in containers with BB's, I dump them into a colander to separate, then dump the bullets into a towel , then into either the OME box or a small container that fits on the shelves in my reloading room
Don't know for sure , but after the pores in the bore are full any excess should be blown out the muzzle.
I feel like using HbN comes under the classification , " If you think it works , then is does".
I know some do the swabbing, and I have no strong feelings one way or the other. However, we are talking about the bore and not the exterior of a ship subject to heavy rusting.
You first paragraph makes an assumption that is incorrect. It is known that simply shooting coated bullets through the barrel applies the hBn to the bore. I was not talking about applying hBn to a dirty bore (assuming I understand what you described) but the simple act of shooting will transfer some of the hBn to the bore. Specially given that you are supposed to wipe off excess before you even seat the bullets. And this is after tumbling for a period of time. Due to possible buildup on the front of the chamber this is highly recommended (wiping excess).
Anyways, it most likely matters not whether you swab or not. As a personal preference I do not.
A salute to you, Old Corp.
Meanwhile, have you heard that the US Navy is like Uber but for marines
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Boiling de-ionized water is a better solvent for hBn and swabbing the bore #2-3 times from chamber too Muzzle should be sufficient . I would suggest a swab mop under bore size ,as opposed to actual bore size . You can coat your chamber as well ,as it minimizes Copper & Carbon fouling build up . I'd use a Jag and several cotton patches with Acetone followed by a bore specific mop with Acetone to initially clean your bore prior to coating . Just a suggestion .
Remember what hBn is and how it protects your bore ,it's a barrier or boundary coating not some scratch resistant miracle coating
Remember what hBn is and how it protects your bore ,it's a barrier or boundary coating not some scratch resistant miracle coating
Have you shot enough of the 153g atips to say it has noticeably more splash or not over the lighter bullets?
I shot out in a muddy field the other day with 180g Bergers from my 308 and the additional splash really helped over the 6.5 140elds.
Not yet but they did throw up some good splash in a wet berm at 1274 yards in the first match I shot them in and allowed a correction. Not sure you would have saw a 6mm but not sure if it would have been more than a 140.
I recently just for sheets n grins ran a mag with 4 different factory rounds in it, 2ea. the 130's hit about 1-2" higher poi than 140-143-147's, at yrd 100-400ish. All "felt" about the same report and recoil wise.
Congratulations! You have taken the first step of many. It is a fascinating hobby, and rewarding as well. There is something about crafting a well constructed, well designed item that is 100% your choices and execution. Works of art.
Start working on the second box ,You'll need cases trust Me
I’ve got 70 rds loaded of various charges. I’m waiting to get my chrono back that I let a buddy borrow
I need help dropping my ES and SD on my 6.5 creedmoor.
Just got back from the range and I was not impressed with my numbers.
Average 2839 ES 37
Hightest 2861 Std deviation 14.5
lowest 2824 Rounds 5
Using Prime brass
GM 210 primers
Hodgdon 4350 42.5 grains
annealing machine
A&D digital precision scale
Just got back from the range and I was not impressed with my numbers.
Average 2839 ES 37
Hightest 2861 Std deviation 14.5
lowest 2824 Rounds 5
Using Prime brass
GM 210 primers
Hodgdon 4350 42.5 grains
annealing machine
A&D digital precision scale
Those numbers are not "terrible" but what is your accuracy like with those numbers? What is your neck tension like and seating depth? Might look into a different bullet seating depth, and possibly a slightly lighter charge to get a more complete burn. IS the prime brass LR or SR primers? Might also try a CCI primer. Many variables could be causing this, but my best armature re-loader guess in neck tension and slight seat depth variations. Also what dies are you using?
Have you tried any other powders ?. Kevin H put it all into perspective I believe . Doubtful seating depth is gonna change much 0.015-20 Th. off the lands or more should be in the sweet spot so to speak .
Accuracy is what really counts ,so where are you in that dept. ? . Are you noticing any carbon rings in the chamber or on the case necks ?. Check chamber neck dimension as opposed to your case necks dimension ,how close are they ?. Chamfer case necks ? . I often use a small mandrel with 600 grit Wet/Dry paper ( a 1/4" wooden dowel will also suffice ) . I'll use it in a portable drill or sometimes mount it in the lathe if I'm doing a bunch of em . After pre-washing ( or dawn dish washing suds soak of cases ) before I actually clean my cases as water dawn is excellent lube .
Don't need more than #10 revolutions if that ,just smoothing out any internal hiccups ,so bullets exit relatively same frictional surface tension .
What's the time interval between shots ?. Try 0.035" off lands . It may be something as simple as powder preference ?. I learned that the hard way decades ago ,so now days I load up #3 groups of #5 each low ,med and high charges of various powders and see which the weapon prefers before actually doing any serious load developments . I also shoot #3-5 fouling shots before shooting anything for evaluation . N540 N555 are excellent VV powders out of mine ,as well as BL C2 .
Ray, are all your brass trimmed to the exact same length? A variation of .005-.010 or so neck length can cause more or overall less neck tension even with seating the bullet the same "depth". A slightly longer neck could grip the bullet a tad more and cause more release friction in the case/bullet connection and run an SD or ES wider by up a few fps. I run mine at 1.915 and seem to have better accuracy in my hand loads. My cases after once fired (mostly hornady, and a couple other brands) were 1.915-1.923 in length. Most consistent cases were Norma and Choice ammo which were nearly identical in length of once fired at 1.915-1.917. Also what is your firing regimen? 3 fowlers, then 5 bangs, for groups and fps measure? Reason I ask is heat may make things change as well. When evaluating my loads I always follow the same timed shot routine. 1 shot for to check zero, let sit. 3 min. then 3-5 shots with 3 min between shots with open bolt, then at least a 10-12 min open bolt cool off. This way the barrel, throat and chamber "should" theoretically be close to the same temp with each shot. Since I started doing this my groups tightened up some, (correlation, hell I have no idea) but at least consistency makes me feel better about what he heck IM doing. FWIW, I do not have a chrono yet so all I have to go on in group size and poa/poi variations, but I will get a garmin chrono later this summer. Enjoy the rabbit hole....
HMM, ya I don't like that verticle poi spread. Something is telling me that the small a speed variation you see may to be too little to cause that much vertical poi dispersion. It it "walking" low to high on you, or hitting random hi/lo poi's?
Ok so that tells me that you may need a slight drop in powder charge, you are likely right on the cusp of what velocity node that gun will tollerate with that bullet/powder. Might try a 42.3 and 42.1 and see if you get a better SD and more consistent grouping with less "walking on you". Also make dang sure you are shooting off a very solid rest and have as little wobble zone as possible. You probably know this but the heart rate can make that bullet jump the amount you are seeing. Not that you are shooting wrong, but a natural respiratory pause, then send the round between heart beats. I was shooting a while back and was amazed at the amount my heartbeat would influence the movement in the reticle. Since then I changed my shot process, striving for a NPA natural point of aim, and my groups shrank by about 1/3 to 1/2 of what they were before. Come to find out, my "issues" were mostly ME,, the nut behind the scope.
