6.5 Creedmoor

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

I’ve been working up a hunting load that will be accurate at long ranges so that I can use the same load to hunt and play with. I have used 200 bullets thus far developing this load. At 1 dollar a bullet it’s starting to hurt. I have a charge that’s seems decent (my first load I’ve ever tried to develop) I started messing with seating depth did ten rounds (2-5 round groups) of each 2.290,2.288,2.286,2.284,2.282 (ogive measurements) and the beast group may have been under 1 moa (I was getting consistent sub 3/4 with Winchester shelf ammo). So now I feel like I’m back at square one. I am reloading nickel plated shit. I just had 500 pieces of star line come in. I’m pretty tempted to toss everything I’ve tried so far and just start all over. Is this the best move? To me I think so just grumpy about waisting my time and money thus far

If you swap brass, you'll be back at square one working up a charge weight.

The bullet/powder combo may not do any better than 1 MOA in your barrel. I'd swap powder since you seem tied to that bullet for hunting. IME, a gross ladder (5 shots each at .5gn increments loaded from just under book max and down) usually tells me in 20/25 shots whether I'll get the speed and precision I want from that powder/projo without chasing it too hard.

 

[Ann Ominous]

That is my thought behind switching brass. I can’t get more than 3 rounds out of the nickel shit. If I change powder I’m starting back at square one anyways. Ditch the brass use the star line and I have plenty of brass for awhile. I might give the nickel one more go but I agree with you time to try another powder. Which again means square one

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

That is my thought behind switching brass. I can’t get more than 3 rounds out of the nickel shit. If I change powder I’m starting back at square one anyways. Ditch the brass use the star line and I have plenty of brass for awhile. I might give the nickel one more go but I agree with you time to try another powder. Which again means square one

Sucks from a cost perspective, for sure. I always try to keep two powders for each burn range on hand if I can, in case one doesn't work for me. PV has 1# of N550 and 555 in stock, if you don't have a place locally (since I guess Viht is the budget option these days )

 

[Ann Ominous]

I just put imr 4350 and h4350 in the cart

 

[Bbracken667]

I just put imr 4350 and h4350 in the cart

Both are good choices. IMR4350 is one of my 3 powders for 6.5 CM. It has been around forever it seems lol.
Both are pretty temp stable also.

 

[Rob01]

H4350 is the better of the two for temp stability if you need that.

 

[Ann Ominous]

It’s defiantly a factor. Hunting bear takes me from snow to 100*+

 

[Bbracken667]

It’s defiantly a factor. Hunting bear takes me from snow to 100*+

You hunt in 100+? Yikes! LoL that’s something I have never done. When temps hit 100 I hibernate indoors hahaha

 

[Rob01]

It’s defiantly a factor. Hunting bear takes me from snow to 100*+

Then definitely use H4350 as your main powder and use IMR4350 as your back up. I have always used H4350 in the .243 and then into the 6.5 Creedmoor as I used to live up north and would shoot matches in south TX. I had to work up a load in the teens and then go shoot matches in the 90s+. H4350 never let me down.

 

[Ex E6]

Sorry. I seem to be confused about who I am replying to about what. *sigh*

Anyway, I would start with your previous solution and work on seating depth to fine tune.
I could go on, but most people do not like what I have to say about the subject. If interested shoot me a message. I can explain a few things re: the reloading world according to Garp, I mean Bruce. Been shooting and reloading since the 70’s and I certainly do not know it all, but I do have lots of experience, good, bad and indifferent.

It's ALL a learning curve on a world wide experience . Two near Identical Rifles using same load have different impact with exact POA .

Some things can frustrate a mere mortal ,yet as a shooter it's just another day of EXPERIMENTING ,Eh

 

[Ann Ominous]

E6? That’s 5 rank changes
2 time E3 that’s 5 rank changes too!
So which is better?

 

[Bbracken667]

It's ALL a learning curve on a world wide experience . Two near Identical Rifles using same load have different impact with exact POA .

Some things can frustrate a mere mortal ,yet as a shooter it's just another day of EXPERIMENTING ,Eh

Realistically though, the way statistics works and varying charges work, as long as he isn’t over max, he will be fine. More charge equals faster bullet. The whole “node” thing is baloney and is just a matter of not enough data points.
Pick a charge about 3/4 of the way from min charge to max charge, then work on seating depth and voila’! There you are.
3 or 5 rounds just does absolutely nothing because of insufficient data. One group may look better than another group, but it is an illusion.
Randomly pick any 5 rounds from below, then pick another 5 rounds and one of those groups will look better than the other. But realistically it isn’t better.

 

[Lawyer]

Any suggestions for Seating the 142 Grain Sierra Matchking as a starting Point ?
How may Jump and is there a sweetspot in terms of velocity in a 8" Twist Barrel with 26" Length ?

Other components will be Lapua SRP Case, VV N555 and Murom 223 or Federal Primers. Got CCI Small Rifle Mag Primers, too

 

[Ex E6]

E6? That’s 5 rank changes
2 time E3 that’s 5 rank changes too!
So which is better?

Which ever one happens to be . Screaming Eagles 101 68-71


Mine were due to battlefield circumstances in Vietnam . Personally I was OK at E4 , however our CO was short on bodies ; So

 

[Ex E6]

Realistically though, the way statistics works and varying charges work, as long as he isn’t over max, he will be fine. More charge equals faster bullet. The whole “node” thing is baloney and is just a matter of not enough data points.
Pick a charge about 3/4 of the way from min charge to max charge, then work on seating depth and voila’! There you are.
3 or 5 rounds just does absolutely nothing because of insufficient data. One group may look better than another group, but it is an illusion.
Randomly pick any 5 rounds from below, then pick another 5 rounds and one of those groups will look better than the other. But realistically it isn’t better.

Agreed ; Minimum rounds per charge ( after #5 round per charge evaluation ,In My case ) , should be minimum of #20 rounds .

Shot in 4 groups of #5 rounds ,this gives a Good indication for all data . Loading ever so carefully one can actually adjust OAL on each group ,so as to see where the sweet spot lies for any particular weapon ,IMO . I generally find best accuracy is 1.0-1.5 grains less than maximum charge .

 

[Ann Ominous]

Which ever one happens to be . Screaming Eagles 101 68-71


Mine were due to battlefield circumstances in Vietnam . Personally I was OK at E4 , however our CO was short on bodies ; So

I once belonged to the crayola clan

 

[Rob01]

I once belonged to the crayola clan

Better than the statistical clan of two in this thread. Lol

 

[Ann Ominous]

 

[Rob01]

Lol look up

 

[Ann Ominous]

 

[Ann Ominous]

I’m just over here hoping I didn’t fall for an Internet scam… find out tomorrow if powder comes in

 

[Ann Ominous]

Then I’ll do a latter test

 

[Ann Ominous]

No jokes serious question:

Is it a terrible idea to preprep and prime my brass? I did so to a couple hundred and am in the middle of doing another 300 when I thought it might not be the best idea. Here’s my thoughts. Safety wise it’s fine ammo comes in ammo cans all the time so the chance of a primer going if and causing a chain reaction is small. BUT! They are sized and have primers in them so if a neck gets bent or dinged I can’t just run it through the sizing die (can I? Decapping pin?) additionally should I be putting a moisture eater in there?

 

[Ann Ominous]

 

[Rob01]

No it’s a good idea. I do it with all my brass and then put them in ziplock bags and then when I have to load I just throw powder and seat bullets.

 

[AllenOne1]

I preprep brass all the time then run a mandrel through the neck right before I fill with powder and seat bullets to make sure the necks are right.

 

[Rob01]

Here's an older pic of my prepped brass stash. All bags have caliber, brass brand and number of times fired. Sometimes I will put the amount of them on there too. I am loading some BH .308 brass I prepped/primed back in around 2008/2009 and it still works great.

 

[Ex E6]

No jokes serious question:

Is it a terrible idea to preprep and prime my brass? I did so to a couple hundred and am in the middle of doing another 300 when I thought it might not be the best idea. Here’s my thoughts. Safety wise it’s fine ammo comes in ammo cans all the time so the chance of a primer going if and causing a chain reaction is small. BUT! They are sized and have primers in them so if a neck gets bent or dinged I can’t just run it through the sizing die (can I? Decapping pin?) additionally should I be putting a moisture eater in there?

Best if one puts their prepped cases in ammo boxes ,that way they don't get dinged . You can also place your ammo boxes inside a hefty trash bag and pull the air out of it ,then seal it off . Long term storage either with a vacuum pump or a vacuum cleaner as it keeps brass from tarnishing .

I prep K's of cases in various calibers and have vacuum seal bags and even for short term ( 2-? months )sometimes use just the bag with cases laid out and suck em down . Also keeps primers pristine ,so I don't have to fret about humidity or storage conditions . It's more than cost effective given prices of components these days .

 

[rahcm]

hey guys
new to the forum and new to reloading, so sorry if this is a dumb question.
I am shooting about 1 moa for the load below, is this what I should expect, or do you think I can improve it.
brass Hornady powder H4350 41.5 grains bullet Hornady eld-x 143 overall length 2.765
with match ammo I can shoot .5 moa so I was hoping to be better than 1 with a hunting bullet.
I have tried 40.8 to 41.8 with powder and 2.758 to 2.859 in length.
thanks for any help

 

[Ann Ominous]

I am by no means an expert. But I shoot really well (for a redneck) and would like to compete one day but I work way too much and don’t have time to drive across the country to find nrl matches. I’d think you could do better (depending on how you determine group size. I’m a fan of 5-5 shot groups then find the furthest points) I was shooting about 3/4 moa with shelf premium ammo (with 2 individual groups well under 1/2) worked up a load and the best I got was .83 on an individual 5 shot group and I scrapped everything and started over with different brass and 3 new different powders. Again I’ve only shot 200 of my reloads and have reloaded 300 rnds. I’m very new. This is the thought of a crayon eating redneck from the backwoods.

 

[Ann Ominous]

Today or tomorrowI hope to shoot the ten new loads I made this week.hoping lightning strikes

 

[david walter]

I use Rob01’s technique. Lots of baggies in a milk crate and in the reloading drawers.

If for some reason I quit a caliber, I either sell the brass or leave it on the “free” table at the local range.

 

[rahcm]

Today or tomorrowI hope to shoot the ten new loads I made this week.hoping lightning strikes

good luck at the range shoot straight

 

[Ann Ominous]

The bummer is just getting there. With everything going on here it’s hard to walk 300’

 

[Ann Ominous]

Side note I was finishing installing new floors today (lvp was 100 sqft short for the house and had to make a small order, ended up paying more in shipping than for product) flooret changed their locking system in the last 8 months or so

 

[Ann Ominous]

This is gay I forget who said it but I may be changing bullets… I really didn’t want to. This shit isn’t grouping or providing small sd’s and the extremes are just that fucking extreme. Im looking for a hunting bullet with high bc that holds together (NOT ELDX may have to go with them but I’m looking for something that can punch through a bears shoulder) I want high bc because even though I shoot animals at 3/350 and in, I do like to play around pretending I’m kris Kyle killing paper from 1,000 yards. I want to use the same load for fun and for work. Suggestions?

 

[stello1001]

This is gay I forget who said it but I may be changing bullets… I really didn’t want to. This shit isn’t grouping or providing small sd’s and the extremes are just that fucking extreme. Im looking for a hunting bullet with high bc that holds together (NOT ELDX may have to go with them but I’m looking for something that can punch through a bears shoulder) I want high bc because even though I shoot animals at 3/350 and in, I do like to play around pretending I’m kris Kyle killing paper from 1,000 yards. I want to use the same load for fun and for work. Suggestions?

Post your loading process step by step

 

[Ann Ominous]

Bought bag of 500 star line brass

Set in block sprayed with one shot

Sized (Hornady match die with 289 bushing)

Tumbled

Primed

Powdered

Pressed in bullet seating depth was all within 1/2 a thousands (how tight do you keep the tolerances?) pressed 2-5 times to get the depth right. I press, lift, spin, press again. Measure and depending on measurement press 0-3 more time in a row (every press after first to gets me roughly 1/2 a thou).

 

[Rob01]

hey guys
new to the forum and new to reloading, so sorry if this is a dumb question.
I am shooting about 1 moa for the load below, is this what I should expect, or do you think I can improve it.
brass Hornady powder H4350 41.5 grains bullet Hornady eld-x 143 overall length 2.765
with match ammo I can shoot .5 moa so I was hoping to be better than 1 with a hunting bullet.
I have tried 40.8 to 41.8 with powder and 2.758 to 2.859 in length.
thanks for any help

No idea why you are loading those so short. What rifle and chamber? If a SAAMI chamber then you should try loading them about .020" off the lands.

 

[AllenOne1]

A 289 bushing sounds a little big. Are you using the Hornady supplied expander ball to finish size the neck?

 

[Ann Ominous]

Loaded to 2.880
Then matched ogive measurement the rest of the way. These are the speeds so far and with the exception of this last group, they were all 1” or bigger (this last group didn’t register on chrono

 

[Ann Ominous]

A 289 bushing sounds a little big. Are you using the Hornady supplied expander ball to finish size the neck?

Yes the eclipse and the bush in the size die

 

[Rob01]

37grns of H4350 is very low. I'd bump that up and you might see better groups.

 

[Ann Ominous]

Ellipse not eclipse

 

[Ann Ominous]

37grns of H4350 is very low. I'd bump that up and you might see better groups.

I’ve got all the way up to41 gr. It was so bad I moved on right away they’re here loaded. I’ll make em the next volley. FYI I’m at the range now. If I don’t see some improvement though I’m about to storm off like a Child and go play with the kids in the pool

 

[Ann Ominous]

Valid message

 

[Ann Ominous]

I did chamfer, debur and uniform primer pockets using Lyman prep center (forgot about that

 

[357Max]

This is gay I forget who said it but I may be changing bullets… I really didn’t want to. This shit isn’t grouping or providing small sd’s and the extremes are just that fucking extreme. Im looking for a hunting bullet with high bc that holds together (NOT ELDX may have to go with them but I’m looking for something that can punch through a bears shoulder) I want high bc because even though I shoot animals at 3/350 and in, I do like to play around pretending I’m kris Kyle killing paper from 1,000 yards. I want to use the same load for fun and for work. Suggestions?

That might have been me that suggested switching bullets.
For a budget friendly solution give the 142 SMK's a try. Should hit lands loaded about .030 shorter than the ABLR's

Those 2 bullets are so close BC wise you could use the same dope for hunting to 600y.

Don't fall for the Nosler BC hype.

I just picked up another 400 of the 142smk's for $99. What did those ABLR's cost you?

BTW if you want accurate G7's to plug into your solver. Sierra's G7 can be difficult to find.

 

[Ann Ominous]

I think I paid .70/per I’d have to look

 

[Ann Ominous]

.25/per sounds better