6.5 Creedmoor

[bf2junky]

Don't be too hard on me...but got time today to shoot my very first handloads and first rounds through this rifle.
MPA PMR Pro 2 chambered in 6.5CM 26" barrel. First thing I know I should have tracked is I had to pull some bullets and used the cases again without marking them. I know the neck tension was totally different and is what probably caused the poor ES and SD with most of my velocity testing.

I don't think I had a single "clean" group where I didn't pull a shot. The 39.6gr group was a total screw up as I pulled the trigger before I actually wanted to and then pulled another.

I was .020 off the lands with these rounds, will play with that some and try to find a good charge around 41.6-41.9. Any suggestions/comments welcome!

H4350
140 ELDM
CCI 450s
Unfired Lapua brass, only set neck tension with a black nitride 21st mandrel. It should be about .263 diameter.

Used an Atlas CAL bipod. Plan on using a sled next time. I need a better rear bag for more stability. My Cole-Tac one I have now is too small.

 

[Schw15]

Finally got my 6.5 cm loaded and shot. 147 eldm with h4350 alpha brass virgin with tight neck tension 4 tho I usually run 2 or 3.

Loaded h4350 40 grains
Length is 20 off the oal of mag. The last shot I think was me but the cluster is 6 shots. I had other loads that shot good but very slow. I think I need to test 41.5. 41 was decent

 

[357Max]

Don't be too hard on me...but got time today to shoot my very first handloads and first rounds through this rifle.
MPA PMR Pro 2 chambered in 6.5CM 26" barrel. First thing I know I should have tracked is I had to pull some bullets and used the cases again without marking them. I know the neck tension was totally different and is what probably caused the poor ES and SD with most of my velocity testing.

I don't think I had a single "clean" group where I didn't pull a shot. The 39.6gr group was a total screw up as I pulled the trigger before I actually wanted to and then pulled another.

I was .020 off the lands with these rounds, will play with that some and try to find a good charge around 41.6-41.9. Any suggestions/comments welcome!

I need a better rear bag for more stability. My Cole-Tac one I have now is too small.

Provide more specifics if you want useful suggestions. What Powder? Bullet? Brass? Primer? Bi-pod? Loading process?

Hand loading is a fun And deep rabbit hole to go down. Steep learning curve & specifics matter especially when looking for suggestions.

 

[bf2junky]

Provide more specifics if you want useful suggestions. What Powder? Bullet? Brass? Primer? Bi-pod? Loading process?

Hand loading is a fun And deep rabbit hole to go down. Steep learning curve & specifics matter especially when looking for suggestions.

Thanks. Updated.

 

[lb6r]

Is 2800 (140eldm) with H4350 and Peterson brass doable ? I just purchased the Hornady load data and it was a lot slower than I was expecting. I understand that I need to work up. Just curious if I chasing something that doesn’t exist. Shooting 24” RPR.

 

[aprocast]

Probably not without wrecking your brass
100-150 FPS is FA in the real world, either in wounding power or windage

 

[Gray shooter]

Hey totally nothing wrong with those groups you posted. Reloading/load development is a journey and most of all should be something that you enjoy. So hang on to your wallet and enjoy the ride.

 

[357Max]

Is 2800 (140eldm) with H4350 and Peterson brass doable ? I just purchased the Hornady load data and it was a lot slower than I was expecting. I understand that I need to work up. Just curious if I chasing something that doesn’t exist. Shooting 24” RPR.

I recently put my Magneto on a buddy’s 24”RPR that had 400rounds on it. Factory 140eldm was 2660. Seems like the RPR hammer forged barrels are on the slow side similar to Tika.

+150 over the factory load is asking a lot. Work up with the H4350, but 2725 should be doable. RL16 would likley get you +40-50 over the H4350.

Pretty sure Hornady uses single point cut rifled SS barrels for their pressure testing. Pushing past that with a hammer forged or known slow barrel is certain to push pressure past Saami max.

 

[357Max]

Thanks. Updated.

With new Brass I do the same/similar. Od/id chamfer and run a 21st century mandrel through the neck (.2625).

Something important to be mindful of is that your new barrel will speed up somewhere around 80-120rnds.

I’d just pick a safe load like 41.2 -.055 from lands and load a 100.
Enjoy your new rifle with those, get it adjusted to fit you & balance. Try different shooting positions to gauge best adjustment & work on fundamentals.

Then once barrel is sped up & you have fire formed brass you can get down to finding a good load.

 

[markl323]

Hi all,

I’m new to both shooting and reloading. I bought an AI/AT in 65 CM (demo unit and arrived apparently new, never been fired). The barrel is Barrlein 24” 1:8 chambered by Win Tac. To date only about 150 rounds fired.

I have tried 12 different factory match ammo at 100 yards. Some ammo shoot 0.3-0.6 MOA, some shoot 1MOA and some shoot in between.

The Berger hybrid ammo (both 140gr and 130gr) do not group well. They typical group higher than 0.8 MOA and I could never get one under 0.7MOA when i can do that easily with Barnes 140, Norma Golden Target 143, Federal SMK 140, Nosler 140, ELDM 140 and 147.

Do you think it’s worth trying make hand loads with these Berger bullets or it would be better off with Honardy ELD-M or SMK? Thanks.

 

[357Max]

Hi all,

I’m new to both shooting and reloading. I bought an AI/AT in 65 CM (demo unit and arrived apparently new, never been fired). The barrel is Barrlein 24” 1:8 chambered by Win Tac. To date only about 150 rounds fired.

I have tried 12 different factory match ammo at 100 yards. Some ammo shoot 0.3-0.6 MOA, some shoot 1MOA and some shoot in between.

The Berger hybrid ammo (both 140gr and 130gr) do not group well. They typical group higher than 0.8 MOA and I could never get one under 0.7MOA when i can do that easily with Barnes 140, Norma Golden Target 143, Federal SMK 140, Nosler 140, ELDM 140 and 147.

Do you think it’s worth trying make hand loads with these Berger bullets or it would be better off with Honardy ELD-M or SMK? Thanks.

What brake do you have on it? Or are you suppressed.
I’ve got 2 x 6.5’s, neither would shoot the factory 140 Bergers worth a damn. Changed brakes on one and it now shoots the Bergers lights out. The other with a different break still doesn’t like the factory Berger load.

With hand loads all bets are off. You may well find a good load for the Bergers.

 

[AllenOne1]

Hi all,

I’m new to both shooting and reloading. I bought an AI/AT in 65 CM (demo unit and arrived apparently new, never been fired). The barrel is Barrlein 24” 1:8 chambered by Win Tac. To date only about 150 rounds fired.

I have tried 12 different factory match ammo at 100 yards. Some ammo shoot 0.3-0.6 MOA, some shoot 1MOA and some shoot in between.

The Berger hybrid ammo (both 140gr and 130gr) do not group well. They typical group higher than 0.8 MOA and I could never get one under 0.7MOA when i can do that easily with Barnes 140, Norma Golden Target 143, Federal SMK 140, Nosler 140, ELDM 140 and 147.

Do you think it’s worth trying make hand loads with these Berger bullets or it would be better off with Honardy ELD-M or SMK? Thanks.

New to reloading, just go with what has been working. The ELD-Ms are pretty easy to get good results, then you can later try the Bergers when you're ready.

 

[markl323]

What brake do you have on it? Or are you suppressed.
I’ve got 2 x 6.5’s, neither would shoot the factory 140 Bergers worth a damn. Changed brakes on one and it now shoots the Bergers lights out. The other with a different break still doesn’t like the factory Berger load.

With hand loads all bets are off. You may well find a good load for the Bergers.

Very interesting you said that because yes I use the ACE brake (90 degree ports so less blast going backwards). What brake didn't work and worked for you? I will try removing mine next time just out of curiousity. Thanks.

 

[357Max]

Very interesting you said that because yes I use the ACE brake (90 degree ports so less blast going backwards). What brake didn't work and worked for you? I will try removing mine next time just out of curiousity. Thanks.

Removed the Hellfire & replaced with Precision Armament. Back blast isn’t bad with the PA brake. I’m not knocking the Hellfire, but rifle just didn’t like it with the Berger ammo.

 

[357Max]

Finally dug the Steyr THB 6.5 Creedmoor 25” barrel out of the safe to try first hand loads.
This was the first “precision bolt gun” I bought. It’s funny at the time I thought this was a heavy pig, but after neglecting it for a few years, it seems light. Decided this will be my Hunting set up for WV. Put a 19oz Vortex Razor LHT 3-15 on it & its 12.5 lbs.

For a hammer forged & nitrited barrel it’s not slow like the Tika’s or RPR’s.

Ran a few factory loads on the clean barrel just to see how they compared for speed against my 25” Rock Creek barrel. Prime 130 was 2740 & will shoot 3/4”. Berger 140 was 2795, but it doesn’t shoot very well, 1.25”ish.

The CIP chamber on the Steyr has about .050 more free bore then the Rock Creek (PVA chambered). Plenty of room in the mag.

First up I tried 147eldm. 4 loads all with the same Black Hills LRP Brass. Brass was annealed, FL sized with Redding type S & mandreled with 21st Century .2625. All 4 loads were 42.0gr H4350. Checking primers & jump. Barrel just likes these 147’s

Berger 144 LRHT @2.923 (.052 jump) RL -26 & same Black Hills Brass. The Steyr has a big ol plunger type ejector & I wanted to see if the RL-26 showed pressure vs the ARC action that hides pressure signs. Did not see any & high load showed promise. Will try another ladder around the high load.

140 RDF’s I tried .010 jump. Didn’t like it.

156 Vulcan Killdozers. These are really what I want to find a load for. .010 jump sucked. I’ll try these with .060 jump and see what happens.

Specific load info is on the target pics. It was shot top left - right.
Barrel was pretty toasty.

 

[aprocast]

Finally dug the Steyr THB 6.5 Creedmoor 25” barrel out of the safe to try first hand loads.
This was the first “precision bolt gun” I bought. It’s funny at the time I thought this was a heavy pig, but after neglecting it for a few years, it seems light. Decided this will be my Hunting set up for WV. Put a 19oz Vortex Razor LHT 3-15 on it & its 12.5 lbs.

For a hammer forged & nitrited barrel it’s not slow like the Tika’s or RPR’s.

Ran a few factory loads on the clean barrel just to see how they compared for speed against my 25” Rock Creek barrel. Prime 130 was 2740 & will shoot 3/4”. Berger 140 was 2795, but it doesn’t shoot very well, 1.25”ish.

The CIP chamber on the Steyr has about .050 more free bore then the Rock Creek (PVA chambered). Plenty of room in the mag.

First up I tried 147eldm. 4 loads all with the same Black Hills LRP Brass. Brass was annealed, FL sized with Redding type S & mandreled with 21st Century .2625. All 4 loads were 42.0gr H4350. Checking primers & jump. Barrel just likes these 147’s

Berger 144 LRHT @2.923 (.052 jump) RL -26 & same Black Hills Brass. The Steyr has a big ol plunger type ejector & I wanted to see if the RL-26 showed pressure vs the ARC action that hides pressure signs. Did not see any & high load showed promise. Will try another ladder around the high load.

140 RDF’s I tried .010 jump. Didn’t like it.

156 Vulcan Killdozers. These are really what I want to find a load for. .010 jump sucked. I’ll try these with .060 jump and see what happens.

Specific load info is on the target pics. It was shot top left - right.
Barrel was pretty toasty.
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Good info thanks

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Don't be too hard on me...but got time today to shoot my very first handloads and first rounds through this rifle.
MPA PMR Pro 2 chambered in 6.5CM 26" barre

Finally got my 6.5 cm loaded and shot. 147 eldm with h4350 alpha brass virgin with tight neck tension 4 tho I usually run 2 or 3.

What muzzle velocities were you guys getting?

 

[Schw15]

What muzzle velocities were you guys getting?

2642 avg. But need more powder and testing. 24 inch barrel bergara

 

[bf2junky]

What muzzle velocities were you guys getting?

Check the photo in the post bud

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Check the photo in the post bud

my bad...

 

[Schw15]

What bc values are you guys using for the 140 eldm and 147 eldm?

 

[russkim04]

What bc values are you guys using for the 140 eldm and 147 eldm?

I've heard their numbers are very close

 

[K80/6.5]

Anyone have much luck with Berger 144’s? My lgs seems to always have those in stock but no other Berger 6.5’s have not found out a bunch using the search that is recent on them.

 

[markl323]

Does anybody know why some primers don’t fire? I see the little hole left by hammer but nothing happens. I have about 3-5 of these every batch of 50 rounds. They are CCI 400 small rifle. Alpha brass. H4350. I checked them after loading and they look flushed. Thanks.

 

[Mainer]

Does anybody know why some primers don’t fire? I see the little hole left by hammer but nothing happens. I have about 3-5 of these every batch of 50 rounds. They are CCI 400 small rifle. Alpha brass. H4350. I checked them after loading and they look flushed. Thanks.

There could be a number of reasons. A bad batch of primers, perhaps your reloading process causes the primers to be contaminated with sizing lube, perhaps your rifle has a weak firing pin spring, incorrect headspace may allow the case to move forward in the chamber and not enough force is applied to the primer, perhaps they are firing but there was no powder in the case.

Is this a new problem? Is this a new, or new to you, rifle? Do other primers work? Is this from one range trip, or multiple range trips?

 

[Shayne Ward]

what loads have you guys found for the 156 EOL and H4350?

 

[category_theory]

what loads have you guys found for the 156 EOL and H4350?

That might be a little too heavy for 6.5CM…. Probably more of a 6.5 PRC slug….

 

[GunnyUSMC]

That might be a little too heavy for 6.5CM…. Probably more of a 6.5 PRC slug….

I agree. I use N550 powder and when running 147gr ELD Match ammo with Max powder loads recommended by VihtaVouri, the muzzle velocities i achieved were too low for me (high 2500s-low 2600s). So with a 156gr bullet, i expect that would be even worse.

I have baselined on 140gr Berger VLD Target. Even there, I am running a little over VV Max recommendation (40gr vs 39gr) to get to the lower 2800 MVs, which is where I really want to be.

 

[Shayne Ward]

I’m shooting the 156 now around 2650-2660 was just wondering what loads other guys are using. A lot of PRS guys are running this bullet now.

 

[category_theory]

I’m shooting the 156 now around 2650-2660 was just wondering what loads other guys are using. A lot of PRS guys are running this bullet now.

What PRS guys? Everyone I know shoots a 6mm BR, creed, BRA, BRX, Dasher, etc. folks typically go 6mm due to accuracy and recoil management, not up.

 

[kindabitey]

What PRS guys? Everyone I know shoots a 6mm BR, creed, BRA, BRX, Dasher, etc. folks typically go 6mm due to accuracy and recoil management, not up.

Morgan King is using 156s in a 6.5 Creed

 

[Shayne Ward]

Morgun, Andy Slade, Dan Hereid to name 3 off the top of my head

 

[Simonsza1]

Morgun, Andy Slade, Dan Hereid to name 3 off the top of my head

Ya and those guys have no clue what there doing lol wink wink ha ha.

 

[45-90]

Get some hybrid cases shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor at magnum velocities, like 3150 fps for 140 gr, my reloadable favorites are the 150 SMK at 2980 fps, or 147gr at 2979 ps ...these go over 3050 fps but this is the crusing speed for the 24" barrel.

 

[AllenOne1]

Get some hybrid cases shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor at magnum velocities, like 3150 fps for 140 gr, my reloadable favorites are the 150 SMK at 2980 fps, or 147gr at 2979 ps ...these go over 3050 fps but this is the crusing speed for the 24" barrel.

What powder are you using to get to that high 2900 range?

 

[357Max]

What powder are you using to get to that high 2900 range?

RL-26 is the unicorn dust for fast heavies in 6.5C

 

[AllenOne1]

RL-26 is the unicorn dust for fast heavies in 6.5C

So somewhere around 51 grains of powder under a 140 grain bullet? Next question for @45-90 is how many times have you done this?

 

[GIXXER2000]

I call bullshit on 51 grains in a creedmoor case. I have run 5 barrels and then most I have ever been able to load is 42.6. I am currently running a 27.5 in Carbon 6 barrel and I am at 41.7 H-4350 with Berger 140's hy's. I am at 2871 AVG FPS this is in Norma brass.

 

[357Max]

I call bullshit on 51 grains in a creedmoor case. I have run 5 barrels and then most I have ever been able to load is 42.6. I am currently running a 27.5 in Carbon 6 barrel and I am at 41.7 H-4350 with Berger 140's hy's. I am at 2871 AVG FPS this is in Norma brass.

 

[russkim04]

So somewhere around 51 grains of powder under a 140 grain bullet? Next question for @45-90 is how many times have you done this?

I got more reloder 26 if u near wi

 

[AllenOne1]

I call bullshit on 51 grains in a creedmoor case. I have run 5 barrels and then most I have ever been able to load is 42.6. I am currently running a 27.5 in Carbon 6 barrel and I am at 41.7 H-4350 with Berger 140's hy's. I am at 2871 AVG FPS this is in Norma brass.

Maybe he has a 40" barrel on that thing.

I think you would have to crush it into a solid mass in the case to get 51 gr stuffed in there.

 

[AllenOne1]

I got more reloder 26 if u near wi

I'm a standard H4350 guy and I don't run anywhere close to those kinds of speeds, nor do I want to.

 

[45-90]

I have 800 hybrid SS cases for 80,000 psi ran a little over a 100 cases 4 times in both the 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 win each and a few in 358Win. Ran the 308 win to 3255 fps, with 168 match, 2951 fps for 200 SMK, and 2719 fps for 225 eldm for max and backed off a grain. I ran a bunch in 308 with 230 grain SMK 9 twist yesterday, turned in excellent accuracy. Primer pockets are same as first time... lots of potential in the Creedmoor, or any 308 based cartridge...or get a 277 Fury...if they were available. Becareful these cases will probably handle more than the 90,000 psi with little hint of over pressure. Any Bolt lift resistance or stiffness cannot be ignored ..if you do this.

 

[Schw15]

I believe he's the guy who is taking a .277 fury case pushing it down and making it into a 6.5 creedmoor

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Get some hybrid cases shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor at magnum velocities, like 3150 fps for 140 gr, my reloadable favorites are the 150 SMK at 2980 fps, or 147gr at 2979 ps ...these go over 3050 fps but this is the crusing speed for the 24" barrel.

Sorry... first I have heard of a hybrid case. Please tell me more...

 

[357Max]

One time at band camp: I put 47.9gr RL-26 behind a 135 A-Tip loaded 2.881 oal They went 2996 sd 7.6 & that was a std non mag primer.

But seriously it is fun to screw around & I was trying to reach 1950y without aiming at the sky. RL-26 is special for sure.

My go to are 41.6-42.4 H4350 for 140 - 147's (either std or mag primers work in this range)
RL-16 up to 44.2 for 135's (Caution this was with std 205 primers) Switching to cci#41 added 50fps & load went to shit.
RL- 15.5 up to 41.4 for 130's (Caution upper end is way above published max and was only tested with std 205 primers)

@45-90 - You know what a steel case won't do well.................Grip the chamber walls. Hope your bolt lugs were designed to handle a constant dose of proof loads.

 

[markl323]

There could be a number of reasons. A bad batch of primers, perhaps your reloading process causes the primers to be contaminated with sizing lube, perhaps your rifle has a weak firing pin spring, incorrect headspace may allow the case to move forward in the chamber and not enough force is applied to the primer, perhaps they are firing but there was no powder in the case.

Is this a new problem? Is this a new, or new to you, rifle? Do other primers work? Is this from one range trip, or multiple range trips?

hi Mainer,

this is a new rifle and before these two hand load batches that have the issue, it shot about 150 rounds of factory match ammo no problem. the first two batches of hand loads (that I ever made) had the issue right away. I use the Redding full size die on every case, even new one, so yes there was case oil used so that could have been the reason. I loaded these myself and there have been a total of 5 of these rounds so that would be too many rounds that I missed filling the powder. but I'll pull them and check this weekend. I haven't learned how to check the headspace yet. could this have been a problem with brand new brass that have gone through a full size die?

 

[aprocast]

You are sizing your brass too much and it i too short for your chamber

 

[GunnyUSMC]

One time at band camp: I put 47.9gr RL-26 behind a 135 A-Tip loaded 2.881 oal They went 2996 sd 7.6 & that was a std non mag primer.

But seriously it is fun to screw around & I was trying to reach 1950y without aiming at the sky. RL-26 is special for sure.

My go to are 41.6-42.4 H4350 for 140 - 147's (either std or mag primers work in this range)
RL-16 up to 44.2 for 135's (Caution this was with std 205 primers) Switching to cci#41 added 50fps & load went to shit.
RL- 15.5 up to 41.4 for 130's (Caution upper end is way above published max and was only tested with std 205 primers)

something to consider...

My experience with neck sizing only to give appx 50fps increase in MV with everything else being the same

I have standardized my loading using the Forster head space sizer (doesnt size the body, only head space and neck) to result in appx 30fps increase in MV... again with everything else being the same.

 

[45-90]

I call bullshit on 51 grains in a creedmoor case. I have run 5 barrels and then most I have ever been able to load is 42.6. I am currently running a 27.5 in Carbon 6 barrel and I am at 41.7 H-4350 with Berger 140's hy's. I am at 2871 AVG FPS this is in Norma brass.

I run a 24" AR 10 6.5 creedmore with 150 gr SMK at 2853 to 2865 fps, 140 gr over 2900 fps.
Hybrid cases will handle 50 grs of powder.
I ran a 22" 9 twist 308 W with 155 gr to 3098 fps
54 grains and a 230 gr SMK at 2550 fps 50 gr charge, different powders, the 225 eld hit 2588 fps in the 308 22" 9 twist...extra performance is for those willing to experiment, and think outside the box, instead of use the same old components, and proclaim BS, just because their favorite components don't get there. Expand your horizons and higher performance will follow...but if your not comfortable stay where you're at...simple.