6.5 Creedmoor

[Mainer]

I haven't learned how to check the headspace yet. could this have been a problem with brand new brass that have gone through a full size die?

It is worth learning. Check out the Hornady lock n load headspace tool, comparator, and , if you do not have one, a caliper.

Lock-N-Load® Headspace Comparator & Anvil Base Kit - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Lock-N-Load® Headspace Comparator & Anvil Base Kit Lock-N-Load® Headspace Comparator The Lock-N-Load® Headspace Comparator extends brass life, improves accuracy, and enhances safety. The gauge measures...

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[markl323]

hi Mainer,

this is a new rifle and before these two hand load batches that have the issue, it shot about 150 rounds of factory match ammo no problem. the first two batches of hand loads (that I ever made) had the issue right away. I use the Redding full size die on every case, even new one, so yes there was case oil used so that could have been the reason. I loaded these myself and there have been a total of 5 of these rounds so that would be too many rounds that I missed filling the powder. but I'll pull them and check this weekend. I haven't learned how to check the headspace yet. could this have been a problem with brand new brass that have gone through a full size die?

I pulled the bullets from 8 of the failed rounds and it looks like the primers fired in all of them. the bases of the bullets all have a brownish color. (photo1).

the powder from these failed rounds (right hand side of photo) also has yellow discoloration and some are much darker than the rest. for comparison purposes, I also pulled 5 rounds that I did not fire and the powder from those rounds is on the left of the photo. (photo2)

and here are the 5 bullets from those rounds. the bottom look look brand new, unlike the 8 that failed. (photo3).

 

[45-90]

Sorry... first I have heard of a hybrid case. Please tell me more...

Look up the Sig 277 Fury, but you're really after the 6.8x51 mm new military hybrid case, it has a Stainless Steel case head & thin brass body operating pressure is 80,000 psi. So the military can reach 3000 fps in a 16" barrel to defeat body armor of offending troops. They have a 13" supperssed semi only civilian version for $8,000, complete with military suppressor. Plus its being fired in machineguns. The 277 fury cross rifles had issues, like firing when the bolt was bumped, after it did not fire when the trigger was pulled...so I was not able to purchase one.. the brass case is about the same performance as a 270- 08...but has a 30° shoulder, a bit more capacity, similar to a standard Creedmoor...but the hybrid case makes it special, with 80,000psi ...6 lbs 16" barrel 3000 fps 140 gr bullets. But it's rigle failed and the future is iffy,...except the military is using the hybrid case LC has tooled up.
So since the 277 Fury is on hold, I use the hybrid cases for 308 based calibers, I have for increased performance like 308 W, & 6.5 Creedmoor.
Look it up...

 

[Mainer]

I pulled the bullets from 8 of the failed rounds and it looks like the primers fired in all of them. the bases of the bullets all have a brownish color. (photo1).

the powder from these failed rounds (right hand side of photo) also has yellow discoloration and some are much darker than the rest. for comparison purposes, I also pulled 5 rounds that I did not fire and the powder from those rounds is on the left of the photo. (photo2)

and here are the 5 bullets from those rounds. the bottom look look brand new, unlike the 8 that failed. (photo3).

Okay. I'm not sure that totally eliminates the primer as the problem, but it does lead me to believe that either the primers or the powder was contaminated, probably by case lube. I suggest loading another batch paying close attention to how the primers are handled. Don't use anything but dry graphite lubricant inside the case necks.

 

[45-90]

One time at band camp: I put 47.9gr RL-26 behind a 135 A-Tip loaded 2.881 oal They went 2996 sd 7.6 & that was a std non mag primer.

But seriously it is fun to screw around & I was trying to reach 1950y without aiming at the sky. RL-26 is special for sure.

My go to are 41.6-42.4 H4350 for 140 - 147's (either std or mag primers work in this range)
RL-16 up to 44.2 for 135's (Caution this was with std 205 primers) Switching to cci#41 added 50fps & load went to shit.
RL- 15.5 up to 41.4 for 130's (Caution upper end is way above published max and was only tested with std 205 primers)

@45-90 - You know what a steel case won't do well.................Grip the chamber walls. Hope your bolt lugs were designed to handle a constant dose of proof loads.

You need to look up the case to see how it's made, before commenting, only the head is SS where its unsupported in the chamber, the rest is Brass, just like normal cases...engineers much smarter than us, have already figured it out ...they are being fired in US military select fire carbines and machineguns, the first million rds has been expanded some time ago. The military is using the hybrid cases, but civilian manufacturers shy away... lawyers and 80,000 psi ammo frighten them. Like the change from black to smokeless powder, look at the hugh increase in pressure..it makes standard cases into magnums. Improvements for every caliber in hybrid cases...further powder development to really get improvements for reloaders...the future? Maybe if ya buy into it.

 

[AllenOne1]

I run a 24" AR 10 6.5 creedmore with 150 gr SMK at 2853 to 2865 fps, 140 gr over 2900 fps.
Hybrid cases will handle 50 grs of powder.
I ran a 22" 9 twist 308 W with 155 gr to 3098 fps
54 grains and a 230 gr SMK at 2550 fps 50 gr charge, different powders, the 225 eld hit 2588 fps in the 308 22" 9 twist...extra performance is for those willing to experiment, and think outside the box, instead of use the same old components, and proclaim BS, just because their favorite components don't get there. Expand your horizons and higher performance will follow...but if your not comfortable stay where you're at...simple.

Yeah, mark me down as not comfortable where you're at. I see what you are trying to do but that's not my game. Stay safe.

 

[45-90]

I pulled the bullets from 8 of the failed rounds and it looks like the primers fired in all of them. the bases of the bullets all have a brownish color. (photo1).

the powder from these failed rounds (right hand side of photo) also has yellow discoloration and some are much darker than the rest. for comparison purposes, I also pulled 5 rounds that I did not fire and the powder from those rounds is on the left of the photo. (photo2)

and here are the 5 bullets from those rounds. the bottom look look brand new, unlike the 8 that failed. (photo3).

If powder is discolored ....the primer fired ... but failed to reach pressure to cause full powder ignition.
To little primer flash, too little neck tension. Primers not seated fully, too much headspace. The Large rifle primer makes a larger flash....
Take a fired case that does not chamber in your rifle of the same caliber, partially size, won't chamber, turn the die down 1/8 turn size again...repeat until the bolt closes...if it closed hard, go down another 1/16 turn. The bolt closes easily...that is the correct headspace for that brass with your chamber...no gauges needed but they can surely help, and how we did it before the fancy new reloading tools. Now the primers should fire 100% if seated in the primer pockets.

 

[Mainer]

hi Mainer,

this is a new rifle and before these two hand load batches that have the issue, it shot about 150 rounds of factory match ammo no problem. the first two batches of hand loads (that I ever made) had the issue right away. I use the Redding full size die on every case, even new one, so yes there was case oil used so that could have been the reason. I loaded these myself and there have been a total of 5 of these rounds so that would be too many rounds that I missed filling the powder. but I'll pull them and check this weekend. I haven't learned how to check the headspace yet. could this have been a problem with brand new brass that have gone through a full size die?

45-90 gave a good method for setting up your resizing die for correct headspace. If you have tools for measuring the length of the case from a datum point on the shoulder to the base, you can record that dimension and check to make sure your brass is being resized properly. Following is how I find the headspace dimension for my chamber. I take an EMPTY case that chambers easily, and just start a SPENT primer in the primer pocket. Then chamber that case and let the bolt seat the primer. The primer should then stand proud of the case head by several thousands of an inch. The dimension from the primer to the datum point on the case shoulder, minus .002", is the length I resize my cases.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

A long time ago, I read a small statement about pushing a .45 Colt to .44 Magnum velocities. If any of you are familiar with the Cold Model P (Single Action Army) you will be aware that the cylinder is not the stoutest that ever revolved. Gets a wee bit thin at the cylinder notch.

The statement went something like this; “if Magnum velocities are wanted, one should purchase a magnum revolver.”

What does this have to do with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I ask, why are you pushing this round. It is neither productive nor is it easy on the rifle, the shooter or the pocketbook. I have been shooting 6.5’s since before it was cool and then not cool to shoot. With todays scopes and ballistic programs, it makes no real point to crank up the velocity.

If a fellow really wants more velocity, may I recommend the 6.5x300 Weatherby. Developed in the early 1960’s as the 6.5x300 Weatherby Wright Magnum, for 1000 yard Matches in the days long before Kestral weather meters/ballistic programs were available. Its got more velocity in its starting loads than you fellows can get our of oru little Creedmoor round shooting a 100 grain bullet behind a case stuffed full of the fastest powder you would dare shoot.


Now the disclaimer. The .45 Colt in a large frame Ruger Blackhawk, or a five shoot Freedom Arms Model 83 can stand quite a bit more pressure than the Colt SAA. Still the Blackhawk chambered in .45 Colt is held to 32,000 PSI while the Freedom Arms has been tested to be safe at 65,000 PSI (but not with standard .45 Colt cases)

 

[45-90]

A long time ago, I read a small statement about pushing a .45 Colt to .44 Magnum velocities. If any of you are familiar with the Cold Model P (Single Action Army) you will be aware that the cylinder is not the stoutest that ever revolved. Gets a wee bit thin at the cylinder notch.

The statement went something like this; “if Magnum velocities are wanted, one should purchase a magnum revolver.”

What does this have to do with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I ask, why are you pushing this round. It is neither productive nor is it easy on the rifle, the shooter or the pocketbook. I have been shooting 6.5’s since before it was cool and then not cool to shoot. With todays scopes and ballistic programs, it makes no real point to crank up the velocity.

If a fellow really wants more velocity, may I recommend the 6.5x300 Weatherby. Developed in the early 1960’s as the 6.5x300 Weatherby Wright Magnum, for 1000 yard Matches in the days long before Kestral weather meters/ballistic programs were available. Its got more velocity in its starting loads than you fellows can get our of oru little Creedmoor round shooting a 100 grain bullet behind a case stuffed full of the fastest powder you would dare shoot.


Now the disclaimer. The .45 Colt in a large frame Ruger Blackhawk, or a five shoot Freedom Arms Model 83 can stand quite a bit more pressure than the Colt SAA. Still the Blackhawk chambered in .45 Colt is held to 32,000 PSI while the Freedom Arms has been tested to be safe at 65,000 PSI (but not with standard .45 Colt cases)

I shoot a real 45 Colt SSA, the Ruger 45 Colt, and a 454 Magnum. The 45 SAA only gets light loads, the Rugers can handle heavier loads.
But you can shoot high pressure loads 50,000 to 65,000 psi in 45 WW 45Colt brass, in 454 Casull.
Fact I milled WW cases in half to measure the head wall thickness and was surprised to find 44 Mag to be .010" thinner than 45 Colt, which makes the 45Colt case slightly stronger than the 44 mag, the 454 WW case was .010" thicker in the head than the 45Colt WW case.
When I shoot 454 400 gr or 405 gr jacketed bullets I use the 45 Colt case in the 454 to keep COAL down to fit the max OAL that will fit in the gun. Bullets with longer noses can be used or resized 458 bullets, loaded full power 454 in 45Colt cases. It's the guns that are weak not the 45 Colt case. Tiffin has wrote about it ...and Dick Casull ran the first triplex loads in 45 Colt cases in his 5 shooter before production to the general public. The compressed powder charge of Bullseye, Unique, and 2400, filled the 45Colt case, fired in those first 454s, probably more than 70,000 psi. They extended the case so people wouldn't shoot them in thin walled 45 Colt SAA, with only .010" in case head thickness increase. The .010" increase in brass thickness would not make much difference as you can easily trim 454 to 45 Colt length, put em in the 45Colt SAA and blow out the cylinders with the same gusto as the 45 Colt brass.

 

[cg1shark]

Anyone have much luck with Berger 144’s? My lgs seems to always have those in stock but no other Berger 6.5’s have not found out a bunch using the search that is recent on them.

I have not shot them from my Creedmore yet; however, I have been really impressed with them in my 6.5X47. My Creedmore only has 40 rounds on it so no real LD there yet. I get over 100 rounds I will start LD using the 144's for sure.

 

[K80/6.5]

I have not shot them from my Creedmore yet; however, I have been really impressed with them in my 6.5X47. My Creedmore only has 40 rounds on it so no real LD there yet. I get over 100 rounds I will start LD using the 144's for sure.

Thanks I will give them a shot!

 

[ncyotecaller]

That might be a little too heavy for 6.5CM…. Probably more of a 6.5 PRC slug….

Quite a few guys running them in PRS now in their 6.5 Creeds. I have my 7.5 twist barrel being chambered as we speak getting ready for 156’s. I know guys running them 2580fps, 2670fps and 2750fps. The 2750fps is with a 28” barrel. I plan on running mine in the 2650-2680 range. Very consistent combination and you get .308 splash on target and misses, less recoil with a very high bc bullet.

 

[Shayne Ward]

Quite a few guys running them in PRS now in their 6.5 Creeds. I have my 7.5 twist barrel being chambered as we speak getting ready for 156’s. I know guys running them 2580fps, 2670fps and 2750fps. The 2750fps is with a 28” barrel. I plan on running mine in the 2650-2680 range. Very consistent combination and you get .308 splash on target and misses, less recoil with a very high bc bullet.

Can you find out load data from your buddies that are running them? I am 2650-2660 out a 28” 8twist with 39.9 H4350.
Pm me if you would like.

 

[markl323]

hi all,

so I just did seating depth test today. (all rounds fired this time - must have been the case lube ). I did a 5 shots group for each jump . below are the results. the velocity is all over the place SD: 10-17, ES:27-47. so I guess I need to do the power charge weights test again. which jump would you use for the power charge weight test (based on the photos below)? thanks.

6.5 CM
Berger Hybrid Target 140gr
H4350 42.6 gr
Alpha Brass Small Primer
CCI 400
AI/AT 26" (Bartlein barrel)

 

[Mainer]

which jump would you use for the power charge weight test (based on the photos below)?

I would shoot .030 a few more times and if the results were consistent, stick with it.

 

[Bbracken667]

hi all,

so I just did seating depth test today. (all rounds fired this time - must have been the case lube ). I did a 5 shots group for each jump . below are the results. the velocity is all over the place SD: 10-17, ES:27-47. so I guess I need to do the power charge weights test again. which jump would you use for the power charge weight test (based on the photos below)? thanks.

6.5 CM
Berger Hybrid Target 140gr
H4350 42.6 gr
Alpha Brass Small Primer
CCI 400
AI/AT 26" (Bartlein barrel)

View attachment 8184355View attachment 8184356

Shoot the best 3 or four groups and see if the relative speeds and accuracy are somewhat consistent. I have been in this position before.
I wound up with a new scales (+\- .005 grain) and a review and serious changes to my case prep. Consistency throughout the process is critical to consistent shooting. I even critically reviewed my shooting “process” and changed up some of my habits. Zero Force Firing Position (ZFFP) became my mantra lol and that’s a mouthful. I got sloppy in my processes and it showed. It’s funny how that can happen a little at a time and when I bought a new rifle it showed. Decades of reloading and shooting resulted in a slow accumulation of small errors. It had reached a point where load development was a nightmare.
When I started the journey there was no internet until 20 years had passed. It took another 20 for me to look into reloading and shooting resources on the net. The net can be a seriously excellent resource. I blather. Sorry!
Good luck with your process! I hope my journey can offer some help.

 

[kindabitey]

hi all,

so I just did seating depth test today. (all rounds fired this time - must have been the case lube ). I did a 5 shots group for each jump . below are the results. the velocity is all over the place SD: 10-17, ES:27-47. so I guess I need to do the power charge weights test again. which jump would you use for the power charge weight test (based on the photos below)? thanks.

6.5 CM
Berger Hybrid Target 140gr
H4350 42.6 gr
Alpha Brass Small Primer
CCI 400
AI/AT 26" (Bartlein barrel)

View attachment 8184355View attachment 8184356

I think they all look pretty solid. Bear in mind that 1/2" at 100 yds. equates to .003" at the buttpad (according to Ted Karagias). I'd pick the .020,
find the most consistent powder charge, and don't change anything until you see a velocity drop.

 

[Bbracken667]

I think they all look pretty solid. Bear in mind that 1/2" at 100 yds. equates to .003" at the buttpad (according to Ted Karagias). I'd pick the .020,
find the most consistent powder charge, and don't change anything until you see a velocity drop.

The variability in muzzle velocity may not be noticeable at 100 yds but out at 700 yds those nice groups will be all over the place.

 

[ncyotecaller]

A lot of the Berger Hybrids like 60-80 thousandths jump but the aren’t as jump sensitive as a lot of bullets.

 

[Bbracken667]

Sure is nice the return of reloading components even if at high prices. I am taking advantage of the situation by increasing my inventories. Bullets, primers, cases, all here or on the way. Powder will be next. I have a good supply of powders but want to add a bit more just in case.
Ukraine is still a thing, Russia is still threatening nukes, NATO seems bound to antagonize Russia. Biden…. is Biden and I have no idea wtf he is thinking, but it ain’t good.
I have concerns. Add to all that the Canadien fires and the heat this year, and there seems to be a conspiracy for SHTF.
The world is crazy and some people only care about arguing about pronouns as the barbarians near the gates.

 

[Doc M]

Hey gents,
Lookin to get ~2750fps with a 140 eldm out of a 22” gas gun. Was wondering what powders y’all recommend, I was originally going to go with h4350 at 39.5 and work my way up but if y’all have an alternative powder you recommend I’m all ears because I know almost nothing.
Thanks for the help

 

[kindabitey]

Hey gents,
Lookin to get ~2750fps with a 140 eldm out of a 22” gas gun. Was wondering what powders y’all recommend, I was originally going to go with h4350 at 39.5 and work my way up but if y’all have an alternative powder you recommend I’m all ears because I know almost nothing.
Thanks for the help

Step one: Buy a good reloading manual, and read it, twice. All the info you seek will be contained in the books.
Other powders I've used: RL16, N555, Shooters World Long Rifle

 

[Mooseknuckles]

What velocity with a 130 eldm are you guys seeing out of a 16 inch barrel? I have one in order for a short compact gun off my origin action. Powder I will be using is h4350 in prime ammo once fired brass.

 

[Bbracken667]

Hey gents,
Lookin to get ~2750fps with a 140 eldm out of a 22” gas gun. Was wondering what powders y’all recommend, I was originally going to go with h4350 at 39.5 and work my way up but if y’all have an alternative powder you recommend I’m all ears because I know almost nothing.
Thanks for the help

While H4350 is super temp stable it doesn’t do much for the bullet MV-wise. Many other candidate powders are “faster” (result-wise).
I am not as hung up on temp stable because I am just not going shooting in 90+ or 100 degree weather.
For 140 grain creedmoor bullets superformance is probably king for speed demons. IMR 4350 is a pretty good compromise because it is pretty stable and will give you a 50 ft/sec bump over H4350.
RL16 is another great candidate but is harder to find. RL-17, 19 and 26 are also candidates but are less temp stable so knowing how to adjust for that is important.
Another option is to load your rounds longer, extra capacity allows for faster running bullets. Another option is hBn (hex boron) coating for your bullets. Very barrel friendly, inexpensive and allows for safer overcharging for a slight boost on the MV. Lots of info on hBn on the interwebs. Check your load charts and select your powder based on your needs and then go from there. I always recommend not loading a bunch of ammo so you can adjust your loads for specific temp conditions if you are using a high temp sensitive powder.

 

[357Max]

What velocity with a 130 eldm are you guys seeing out of a 16 inch barrel? I have one in order for a short compact gun off my origin action. Powder I will be using is h4350 in prime ammo once fired brass.

For a shorty with 130’s H4350 will work fine, but I would be looking at RL 15.5. Search this thread with my user name. Did a load dev with 15.5 & 130’s in this thread. I think the load I settled on had complete powder burn prior to 16”

 

[XikoPlavi]

Try N555 also if you can find it. It’s my goto over H4350

 

[Doc M]

Step one: Buy a good reloading manual, and read it, twice. All the info you seek will be contained in the books.
Other powders I've used: RL16, N555, Shooters World Long Rifle

How do I tell a good reloading manual from a bad one? Reviews? YouTube? Do I just buy 3 and read em all?

 

[diggler1833]

How do I tell a good reloading manual from a bad one? Reviews? YouTube? Do I just buy 3 and read em all?

I personally prefer ones that list pressures. My barrels aren't the same as the test barrels, but I like having a general pressure "ballpark" to begin with. Hornady is a good start, and Hodgdon's load information is free on the web.

That being said, I cut my teeth on an old Speer manual that I used as a reference for how to set my dies for several years until I got comfortable enough with what I was doing that I branched out.

 

[Bbracken667]

How do I tell a good reloading manual from a bad one? Reviews? YouTube? Do I just buy 3 and read em all?

For me, I would buy either one for the bullets I use or the powder I use. I mainly use Hornady bullets and Hodgdon powders with an occasional foray into Berger bullets and Alliant powder.
Hodgdon has an excellent site https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=54

And Hornady has an excellent reloading app which I use. You buy the data you want, either the whole set or just the cartridges you use. I just pay $0.99 per cartridge and the app is updated with new data on occasion which is free. Online resources are amazing but the sum total of information in a book is a necessary start for new or relatively new reloaders. Choose a major supplier such as Sierra (also has a free app with all their data) or Hornady, buy the book and also use the apps for the most up to date information. The resources available out there are truly amazing. When I started it was just a few books and you literally were self thought. Am an olde geezer, but I am proud of it lol.

 

[kindabitey]

How do I tell a good reloading manual from a bad one? Reviews? YouTube? Do I just buy 3 and read em all?

As the two previous posts stated. What I should have said was reputable, as in from a bullet or powder manufacturer.
Most people skip over the first half of the manuals and go straight to the data list. The first half covers a small bit of history and a lot of safe reloading practices.

 

[Mooseknuckles]

For a shorty with 130’s H4350 will work fine, but I would be looking at RL 15.5. Search this thread with my user name. Did a load dev with 15.5 & 130’s in this thread. I think the load I settled on had complete powder burn prior to 16”

I would love to get my hands on some RL15.5 but it seems to be unicorn dust.

Is 2700 a realistic velocity to achieve out of a 16 inch barrel with a suppressor?

 

[357Max]

I would love to get my hands on some RL15.5 but it seems to be unicorn dust.

Is 2700 a realistic velocity to achieve out of a 16 inch barrel with a suppressor?

I topped out at 41.6 of RL 15.5 with 130 Berger Hyb @2.816/2.196 (-.055 jump) 2961 SD 5.3. That was a 25" barrel, Lapua SRP brass, & std Federal GM205 primers. Consider that a max load bolt gun only, but I shot several hundred of those with very good repeatable consistency.

Based on the above and the fact 100% burn was at 15" and change (based on Gordon's). I'd say yeah should be close to 2700 with the above combo. I consider 130 to be the cut off for RL15.5. For 135gr + I switch to RL16

RL16, H4350, N555 are not going to achieve complete burn in a 16" barrel. It'll work, just won't be as efficient as 15.5

If you go this route start at least 2.5gr below my max load and work up. There's just to many variables to guarantee your barrel won't hit pressure before mine. Also beware to use non magnum primers only. I accidentally loaded some of these over cci#41's and the speed jumped 40-50fps.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Doc M

Assuming you gas gun is running something like the 6.5 creedmoor...

I like VihtaVouri powders. I load with the N550 (and soon the N555) for my 6.5 CM in an AR10 with 136gr Lapua Scenar-L with MVs in the low 2700s with both 22" and 24" barrels.

With an AR, something to think about is bullet seating. I find the heaver long range bullets with higher BC (like a hybrid, VLD and maybe the ELDM) are typically longer. The issue here is that because you are limited to magazine length, those longer bullets will need to be seated deeper into the case. In general, i do not like my bullets being seated deeper than the neck... just a personal thing. But a big issue with seating the bullet deeper into the case is that you will find yourself with less room for powder. For these two reasons, i will not load anything bigger than the 136gr Lapua Scenar in my AR10.

Bolt guns are a totally different animal...

 

[Mooseknuckles]

I topped out at 41.6 of RL 15.5 with 130 Berger Hyb @2.816/2.196 (-.055 jump) 2961 SD 5.3. That was a 25" barrel, Lapua SRP brass, & std Federal GM205 primers. Consider that a max load bolt gun only, but I shot several hundred of those with very good repeatable consistency.

Based on the above and the fact 100% burn was at 15" and change (based on Gordon's). I'd say yeah should be close to 2700 with the above combo. I consider 130 to be the cut off for RL15.5. For 135gr + I switch to RL16

RL16, H4350, N555 are not going to achieve complete burn in a 16" barrel. It'll work, just won't be as efficient as 15.5

If you go this route start at least 2.5gr below my max load and work up. There's just to many variables to guarantee your barrel won't hit pressure before mine. Also beware to use non magnum primers only. I accidentally loaded some of these over cci#41's and the speed jumped 40-50fps.

I have considered ditching h4350 and trying Varget or Winchester stabal match for the 130s to see if I could get complete burn at 16 inches. With the bc for the 130 eldm, 1000 yards shouldn’t be an issue at 2600 and above. I am going to be running cci200 primers or Winchester large rifle.

 

[45-90]

New to reloading and AR 10, you start at the beginning with reloading manual data, and work up. When you've gained a fair amount of experience then you can go to the performance area. You don't let a 16 yr old with a new drivers license, drive a race car.
I actually shoot AR 10s in 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor.. the 6.5 Creedmoor us a great AR 10 cartridge, but lacking as a bolt cartridge unless hybrid cases are used IMO.
I shoot the same loads in an AR 10 24" as I do with a bolt gun, shooting heavy bullets 140gr is the lightest I use and reached 2962 fps in a 6.5 Creedmoor AR 10, Nosler 140 RDF,
The standard load with 150 gr SMK is 2842 fps with .5" 5 shot groups at 100 yds. Another powder yields 2865 fps, for the 150 gr SMK. But accuracy was slightly better with the slower velocity load 2842 fps powder..
Heavy bullets is where it's at IMO, they lose less velocity in short barrel as I've tested them in 18" to 30" firing the same load. Use the gas system control the load with an adjustable gas block, no need for heavy buffers or springs, use the same lower for each cartridge. The 308 18" gets the same treatment, shoot heavy high pressure loads as the bolt gun 150 gr 2822 fps, 168 Berger 2815 fps, 208 ELDM to 2508 fps,.. single load 225 ELDM 2477 fps. And 200 gr SMK 2673 fps, from an AR 10 Proof 18" barrel same warm load used in the 30" bolt gun.
But you do not start there, with zero experience, or an upper someone put together... quality components, high pressure bolts, assembly and accuracy techniques are important for this non combat, endeavor of the AR 10.

 

[Bbracken667]

I have heard things like this said before. Be careful, when you mess with the devil hell ain’t far behind lol. There was a guy who loaded 80 grain eld-m’s hot for his 224 valkyrie ar. Got away with it for a while. Then one day: boom.

 

[45-90]

I have heard things like this said before. Be careful, when you mess with the devil hell ain’t far behind lol. There was a guy who loaded 80 grain eld-m’s hot for his 224 valkyrie ar. Got away with it for a while. Then one day: boom.

I have about 400 358Win cases one batch cleaned one not quite done...What shall we do with all of em?...I know let's put some 310 gr Woodleighs in there and see if we could take down something big....perhaps, a monstrous bull elephant? Or a 220 Swift Varmint load 50 gr copper 9 mm for varmints at 3766 fps?..already done that...
Or just boring standard light duty plinking loads...yep, ran 400 rds of the 200 gr at 2300 fps and it would flip a soup can...most of the time....some want more..something more... interesting.
Explore the possibilities, expand upon the precieved limits, new concepts and new developments in powder applied, especially to previously mundane calibers of the past, that everyone knows are almost..worthless. Reloading, shooting , handling guns, or driving a car or crossing a street, has a certain amount of risk...weighted and measured with every human decision..no matter how careful, or careless ...the end result is always the same. It's just a matter of time. Thought for today.

 

[Bbracken667]

I have about 400 358Win cases one batch cleaned one not quite done...What shall we do with all of em?...I know let's put some 310 gr Woodleighs in there and see if we could take down something big....perhaps, a monstrous bull elephant? Or a 220 Swift Varmint load 50 gr copper 9 mm for varmints at 3766 fps?..already done that...
Or just boring standard light duty plinking loads...yep, ran 400 rds of the 200 gr at 2300 fps and it would flip a soup can...most of the time....some want more..something more... interesting.
Explore the possibilities, expand upon the precieved limits, new concepts and new developments in powder applied, especially to previously mundane calibers of the past, that everyone knows are almost..worthless. Reloading, shooting , handling guns, or driving a car or crossing a street, has a certain amount of risk...weighted and measured with every human decision..no matter how careful, or careless ...the end result is always the same. It's just a matter of time. Thought for today.

Live fast, die young. Having died once, I plan on living forever. So far, so good.
Seriously though, I have died once. I figure I won’t get any other lucky breaks to that degree again. The inevitable is no reason for rushing it, and when you are coming out of darkness, laying there, what’s important becomes real, and the ridiculous becomes even more so.
I know what it feels like to to get that electric charge of life for the third time.

 

[45-90]

Live fast, die young. Having died once, I plan on living forever. So far, so good.
Seriously though, I have died once. I figure I won’t get any other lucky breaks to that degree again. The inevitable is no reason for rushing it, and when you are coming out of darkness, laying there, what’s important becomes real, and the ridiculous becomes even more so.
I know what it feels like to to get that electric charge of life for the third time.

Having died the first time at 38, from an aneurysm, ...it aint luck...more like real a miracle, being the only one to ever survive of 15 known cases, of this type. I am not going to live forever...don't believe I'd want to.
Death was dark, absolute black...but very comfortable, indescribably comfortable! No thoughts, no pain, no feelings of love, or hate, ...nothing but complete, thorough, almost intense comfort...so peaceful, in the complete darkness, alone, surrounded by extreme comfort, and absolutely nothing is of concern.
When they brought me back, I did not know who I was, I had to start over from there...electrical signals from a brain to being a person. And celebrate the anniversary of my death or 2nd life as much as the orginial birthday.
Always thankful to be alive,..everyday.
I am not concerned with death, ...been there.
I want to feel life.... and still ride motorcycles, my favorite a raked out, chopper type with a fat rear tire, old school...but I still go wide open throttle, and rip through the gears. Even did a few wheelies on my kids 185 hp motorcycle at 70 yrs old, but I could see he was a little concerned about me wrecking his motorcycle.
I have survived humanity more than I can stand, bullets cutting the wrinkles in my clothes, drive by shooting, blades to the throat, chains, baseball bat, stabbed, gun fights, fist fights, threats of, gonna kill ya, no big deal, gangbangers hunting you, "were gona make you bleed MFer" ... and you never call the law, that will draw unwanted attention.
One pesky rattlesnake bit my right leg when I stepped on him...but he didn't rattle, and I didn't see him. So I actually expected to die young...but by miracle made it to old age. People have been the largest threat to my life since the beginning. These days I stay away from people, avoid cities completely...small town life, suits me these days... and I'm thinking of relocating all the time, It's getting too crowded...and you never call the law, I lived with alot of violence in the early years and don't understand those who haven't experienced it, and lived such protected lives.
Kids today are getting the same treatment in the inner cities, if not worse. Sad, but they have nowhere to go...
Nothing like a 16 ft high fence to remind you, of who you are, and you don't belong on the other side as I was looking through it, wondering what it would be like...right after another kid tried to cut my throat with a switch blade knife, over a place in line...welcome to grade school. USA...the other side of the fence.

 

[Bbracken667]

Having died the first time at 38, from an aneurysm, ...it aint luck...more like real a miracle, being the only one to ever survive of 15 known cases, of this type. I am not going to live forever...don't believe I'd want to.
Death was dark, absolute black...but very comfortable, indescribably comfortable! No thoughts, no pain, no feelings of love, or hate, ...nothing but complete, thorough, almost intense comfort...so peaceful, in the complete darkness, alone, surrounded by extreme comfort, and absolutely nothing is of concern.
When they brought me back, I did not know who I was, I had to start over from there...electrical signals from a brain to being a person. And celebrate the anniversary of my death or 2nd life as much as the orginial birthday.
Always thankful to be alive,..everyday.
I am not concerned with death, ...been there.
I want to feel life.... and still ride motorcycles, my favorite a raked out, chopper type with a fat rear tire, old school...but I still go wide open throttle, and rip through the gears. Even did a few wheelies on my kids 185 hp motorcycle at 70 yrs old, but I could see he was a little concerned about me wrecking his motorcycle.
I have survived humanity more than I can stand, bullets cutting the wrinkles in my clothes, drive by shooting, blades to the throat, chains, baseball bat, stabbed, gun fights, fist fights, threats of, gonna kill ya, no big deal, gangbangers hunting you, "were gona make you bleed MFer" ... and you never call the law, that will draw unwanted attention.
One pesky rattlesnake bit my right leg when I stepped on him...but he didn't rattle, and I didn't see him. So I actually expected to die young...but by miracle made it to old age. People have been the largest threat to my life since the beginning. These days I stay away from people, avoid cities completely...small town life, suits me these days... and I'm thinking of relocating all the time, It's getting too crowded...and you never call the law, I lived with alot of violence in the early years and don't understand those who haven't experienced it, and lived such protected lives.
Kids today are getting the same treatment in the inner cities, if not worse. Sad, but they have nowhere to go...
Nothing like a 16 ft high fence to remind you, of who you are, and you don't belong on the other side as I was looking through it, wondering what it would be like...right after another kid tried to cut my throat with a switch blade knife, over a place in line...welcome to grade school. USA...the other side of the fence.

Alrighty then. *cough cough*

 

[aprocast]

That’s it, I’m selling my creed tomorrow, don’t want to end up anything like these two

 

[Bbracken667]

That’s it, I’m selling my creed tomorrow, don’t want to end up anything like these two

Me too! LoL

 

[45-90]

Oh, ye of little faith, why are you so afraid?

 

[diggler1833]

Came here to learn a little about the 6.5CM...

Learned who not to talk to about the 6.5CM, so I'll consider it a success for today.

 

[markl323]

Hi all,

I did a powder charge test today using a good jump seen in the last seating depth test (post #3143). 5-shots groups. This time I switched to RL-16 and CCI 450. My ES and SD got cut by half! Group sizes seem to get a bit better as well.

There appears to be a node at 42.4 - 42.7gr? but since the ES & SD for one of the groups is not so good maybe I should skip this node?

However, the ES and SD for Group11 looks good and there are no pressure signs yet. I'm going to try 43.2 and 43.4 next weekend and see if there's a node there.

If there isn't a node there, I'm thinking of picking G7 and be done. ES & SD seem stable and low enough between G6-G8. What do you think?

 

[Shiftyk5]

I think you should just pick your speed that you want to shoot that is within a safe pressure and just load it and shoot. I’m guessing what your POA is and they seem to be mostly with the same POI, from everything I’m reading and my own learning and experiences, your ES, SD should tighten up with measuring to the granule with powder and keep consistent loading practices.

 

[OlsenG_360]

Hi all,

I did a powder charge test today using a good jump seen in the last seating depth test (post #3143). 5-shots groups. This time I switched to RL-16 and CCI 450. My ES and SD got cut by half! Group sizes seem to get a bit better as well.

There appears to be a node at 42.4 - 42.7gr? but since the ES & SD for one of the groups is not so good maybe I should skip this node?

However, the ES and SD for Group11 looks good and there are no pressure signs yet. I'm going to try 43.2 and 43.4 next weekend and see if there's a node there.

If there isn't a node there, I'm thinking of picking G7 and be done. ES & SD seem stable and low enough between G6-G8. What do you think?

View attachment 8189178

View attachment 8189179

If this was my gun, I'd try a load at 41.9 or 42.5 (assuming no pressure signs) based on your groups vertical placement. Pick the speed you want and fine tune seating depth.

 

[category_theory]

Question for the masses. I have a bunch of 150 SMKs and some Staball 6.5… I see that the Staball is a slower powder than h4350 so thought it may be a decent combo for my 26” 7.5tw barrel.. anyone have any recipes for this set up? Thanks!

 

[Bbracken667]

I have been thinking about testing Staball 6.5 for my 140gn ELD M’s. I only have what the Hornady app, the Hogdgon website and a couple of pre-Staball books for information. I have watched a few YouTube vids that make Staball seem like a good option. Currently using IMR 4350 with good results, but as usual, I like exploring new lands lol. I think I can probably get more speed from the Staball and lower sd’s as well, but that remains to be seen.
I usually go upper .6 or .8 grains to a tad over along with a longer BTO than spec. I also use hBn to coat my bullets so that also helps eke out some extra fps safely.