6.5 Creedmoor

[DMP]

Would anyone have any recommendations for min starting load for an ocw test. I have been looking for any references and have come up unsuccessful. I was thinking of starting at 39 grains and working up in increments of .4.

I will be using:
130 eld-m
Cci 450 primers
Rl16
Starline srp

I would do my steps up in .2 great. .4 is a little steep.

 

[DMP]

I would do my steps up in .2 great. .4 is a little steep.

Grains not great.

 

[spoe]

Testing Alpha Brass - definitely lower case volume when compared to Hornady.

Remington 700 22" bbl. in a KRG Bravo, 40° conditions
142g Sierra MatchKings
40.8g H4350
Once fired Alpha Brass (LPP)
CCI BR-2
2697 fps

 

[palmettoman]

I think I finally got my load -
41.7 H4350
140 SMK
Federal GMM A/R primers
Starline SRP brass

Had really good results seating .020 off the lands. I'll play with the seating depth and be sure to post some pics of my "best groups".

Who am I kidding...I'll probably forget...

 

[Lunchbox27]

Proof Research Stainless 24” (Suppressed)
140 Hornady HPBT match
Hornady Brass
CCI 200
40.6 Reloader 16

Shot some really good groups throughout this testing. Pressure signs at 41.8 grains (2945 fps). Proof makes an accurate, fast barrel.

3/8” or less groups @2797fps (8.7SD)

 

[pbatesaz]

Would anyone have any recommendations for min starting load for an ocw test. I have been looking for any references and have come up unsuccessful. I was thinking of starting at 39 grains and working up in increments of .4.

I will be using:
130 eld-m
Cci 450 primers
Rl16
Starline srp

When working up my load I started with 39 and went up to 42.5 in .5 increments, then refined to .2 increments to end up at 41.8. So I think your plan is a good one. Good luck.

 

[jb41291]

When working up my load I started with 39 and went up to 42.5 in .5 increments, then refined to .2 increments to end up at 41.8. So I think your plan is a good one. Good luck.

after a little more research i too will start at 39 grains. When doing course increments did you find a decent node?

 

[Bryan marks]

Proof Research Stainless 24” (Suppressed)
140 Hornady HPBT match
Hornady Brass
CCI 200
40.6 Reloader 16

Shot some really good groups throughout this testing. Pressure signs at 41.8 grains (2945 fps). Proof makes an accurate, fast barrel.

3/8” or less groups @2797fps (8.7SD)

Ya I never get how people can load 43 plus grains and have no pressure signs I saw signs at 41.8 too. Howa 1500 6.5 creed. Stock heavy barrel.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Ya I never get how people can load 43 plus grains and have no pressure signs I saw signs at 41.8 too. Howa 1500 6.5 creed. Stock heavy barrel.

I was able to run 42.4 in my factory Tikka barrel. But, it had a long throat.

 

[dntworry]

Tried a OCW with Berger 140 hybrids loaded to 2.950 (max mag length for mags without binder plates) very long throat on my Tikka CTR that's still a ~.050 jump to riflings. Did not see any pressure signs wondering about trying higher loads, what do you guys think?

 

[flyright]

42.3 and shorten seat depth. Sometimes, jumping is your friend...

 

[dntworry]

Trying to learn the process just wondering what makes this load stand out to you?

 

[flyright]

Looks round - no vertical stringing - easier to tell with 5 round groups, though and a couple through the same hole. That powder charge should be mid node and easy on the brass and barrel. Just my .02.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Trying to learn the process just wondering what makes this load stand out to you?

I agree with what Flyright is saying. Also, my go to load with the 140 grain Hornady was 42.4 RL 16. Low SD, solid velocity out of the Tikka 20” barrel. I also kept mine @ 2.825 oal.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

Tried a OCW with Berger 140 hybrids loaded to 2.950 (max mag length for mags without binder plates) very long throat on my Tikka CTR that's still a ~.050 jump to riflings. Did not see any pressure signs wondering about trying higher loads, what do you guys think?

43.5 Grains with no pressure signs? wow. Any idea of speed? Just wondering..

 

[dntworry]

43.5 Grains with no pressure signs? wow. Any idea of speed? Just wondering..

Do not have a worthwhile chronograph at the moment so no way to tell

I feel like it is related to the extreme length they are pulled out, I actually did some more testing again today and pushed it up to 44gr and no sticky bolt lift, no extractor shine, no flattened primers, could not identify anything representing a pressure sign.

Based on previous experience my old load was 41.6gr with a 147ELDM and with the stock 24" CTR only got 2675fps

 

[rap36case]

In my opinion it’s the Hornady brass. I know lots of people get good results with it but that’s not my experience. From what I see there I’d just load 42.4gr and go shoot it.

I like the plot of muzzle velocity as a function of powder mass. I have seen a stair-step graph for 130gr Berger OTM AR hybrid. I am wondering if seating depth ha

I did a ladder load test for my RPR using 140 Gr ELD-M and 41.5 gr - 43.3 gr of H4350. It looks like there is a node between 42.5 and 42.9.
View attachment 7002958
Does this look correct or did a screw something up?

Cheers,
Conan

I like the plot of muzzle velocity as a function of powder mass. I have seen a stair-step graph for 130gr Berger OTM AR hybrid. I am wondering if seating depth has an effect on the nodes as well. I have gone to magazine depth for precision shooting in the field. My load is 130OTM, Peterson Cartridge small primer, 43.2gr H4350, CCI BR4 small primer, COAL 2.815. I will shoot a couple more ladders with 5 round groups to verify powder charge after optimizing seating depth for magazine.

 

[Stonewall1846]

130 Gr Berger Hunting VLD

24" Criterion Barrel, Remington Blue Printed Action
Lapua small primer brass
CCI BR4 primer
43.6 Gr H 4350

Muzzle Velocity 2930 (Velocity node @ 43.5-43.7, 2927-2932)

3/4" vertical spread at 300yds

 

[Lunchbox27]

Do not have a worthwhile chronograph at the moment so no way to tell

I feel like it is related to the extreme length they are pulled out, I actually did some more testing again today and pushed it up to 44gr and no sticky bolt lift, no extractor shine, no flattened primers, could not identify anything representing a pressure sign.

Based on previous experience my old load was 41.6gr with a 147ELDM and with the stock 24" CTR only got 2675fps

Thats actually pretty good for a tikka barrel. These barrels are slow, compared to other factory options at the same length. I rebarreled for this reason. That said, your 42.3 load wont hold you back. Just will need a little more at distance with your wind calls than others.

 

[rap36case]

130 Gr Berger Hunting VLD

24" Criterion Barrel, Remington Blue Printed Action
Lapua small primer brass
CCI BR4 primer
43.6 Gr H 4350

Muzzle Velocity 2930 (Velocity node @ 43.5-43.7, 2927-2932)

3/4" vertical spread at 300yds

Thank you! that is good information to know.

 

[NamibHunter]

Has anyone tried the Hornady 140 hpbt compared to the eld-m’s? They run almost $10 a box cheaper here.

Yes: Bought a box to use it for fire forming because they are cheap. Used some WCxxx surplus powder made 30 years ago. Shot remarkably well at 400 yards on steel. I recall a few 1.5” to 2.5” three shot groups. Low wind. Kept the speed low, around 2500 fps. No load development, and loaded to book length. Surprised me.

BC is not great but bullet dimensions must be super consistent. Shape reminds me of Sierra 142 SMK.

I would say try it anyway.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Yes: Bought a box to use it for fire forming because they are cheap. Used some WCxxx surplus powder made 30 years ago. Shot remarkably well at 400 yards on steel. I recall a few 1.5” to 2.5” three shot groups. Low wind. Kept the speed low, around 2500 fps. No load development, and loaded to book length. Surprised me.

BC is not great but bullet dimensions must be super consistent. Shape reminds me of Sierra 142 SMK.

I would say try it anyway.

I agree, and the 140 hpbt is all i shoot and have shot through 3 different barrels. I dont compete, so they are great for banging steel at distance... just a little more wind hold. Great bullets for the price.

140 hpbt BC : .580 G1
140 eld-m BC : .646 G1

 

[Bmoore0062]

So feel pretty confident my new 6.5 barrel is broken in and it’s tome to really work a load up for it. Shooting 140 ELD-M. Started with a generic mid of the road load, at 41 grains of H4350. Groups decent and averaging 2740fps, no signs of pressure.

Question is for my ladder test should I start at 41 grains or bump it back further. In recent post saw guys starting all the way back at 39, but rarely see any loads under 41 grains. Plan is to increase by .2. Just don’t want to waste time, money, and more importantly wear on the barrel.

 

[canezach]

Proof Research Stainless 24” (Suppressed)
140 Hornady HPBT match
Hornady Brass
CCI 200
40.6 Reloader 16

Shot some really good groups throughout this testing. Pressure signs at 41.8 grains (2945 fps). Proof makes an accurate, fast barrel.

3/8” or less groups @2797fps (8.7SD)

Just curious, but what pressure signs were you seeing? Flattening of the primer, or are we talking sticky bolt/extractor swipes? The only reason I'm asking is 41.8 grains of RL16 in Hornady brass is 0.1 grain lower than my match load with those same components, which put me in the low to mid 2800s. I would have to revisit my notes to verify, but I seem to recall going into the 43 grain range before I saw significant pressure signs. I know all barrels and chambers are different, what works in one rifle won't work in another, etc., but I was curious to know what you're seeing.

On a side note, I absolutely love the 140 BTHP. It doesn't have the BC of its ELDM cousin, but dammit, those BTHPs just shoot for me! And you can find them for about $22 a box. For their cost and performance, they're hard to beat!

 

[vergil]

Just curious, but what pressure signs were you seeing? Flattening of the primer, or are we talking sticky bolt/extractor swipes? The only reason I'm asking is 41.8 grains of RL16 in Hornady brass is 0.1 grain lower than my match load with those same components, which put me in the low to mid 2800s. I would have to revisit my notes to verify, but I seem to recall going into the 43 grain range before I saw significant pressure signs. I know all barrels and chambers are different, what works in one rifle won't work in another, etc., but I was curious to know what you're seeing.

On a side note, I absolutely love the 140 BTHP. It doesn't have the BC of its ELDM cousin, but dammit, those BTHPs just shoot for me! And you can find them for about $22 a box. For their cost and performance, they're hard to beat!

Where do you find these $22 a box? Every time I check they are around $30.

 

[Randy_Lahey]

Midsouth has them for $22/box now. FYI

 

[canezach]

Where do you find these $22 a box? Every time I check they are around $30.

Like the poster above said, Midsouth has them for $21.99 a box. Red River has then for $23.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Just curious, but what pressure signs were you seeing? Flattening of the primer, or are we talking sticky bolt/extractor swipes? The only reason I'm asking is 41.8 grains of RL16 in Hornady brass is 0.1 grain lower than my match load with those same components, which put me in the low to mid 2800s. I would have to revisit my notes to verify, but I seem to recall going into the 43 grain range before I saw significant pressure signs. I know all barrels and chambers are different, what works in one rifle won't work in another, etc., but I was curious to know what you're seeing.

On a side note, I absolutely love the 140 BTHP. It doesn't have the BC of its ELDM cousin, but dammit, those BTHPs just shoot for me! And you can find them for about $22 a box. For their cost and performance, they're hard to beat!

at 41.5, I was getting ejector swipe, a hard to lift bolt but no flattening of primer. At 41.8 the bolt took a serious tug to open, ejector swipe present again and the primers were losing their shape. This was 2900 fps and signs to me that I'm at or approaching pressure limits. This was a 50 degree day, too. Same action, different barrel... my load was 42.4. This chamber is tighter than my factory.

I have found it very hard to beat the 140 hpbt. The performance I get with the price spent is well worth it to me. I did crunch some numbers with the difference in ballistics to the eld-m, but I'm not even sure I want to mess with it for a slightly less wind call.

 

[matt0239]

I'm shooting a gas gun - Christensen DMR 24"

Best load to date:
Berger AR Hybrid OTM Tactical 130gn
44gr RL16
2x fired Hornady brass FL, neck bushing .288
GM215M
COAL 2.790

2965 fps and shoots bug holes consistently 4 out of 5 rounds in a group. My "flyer" that appears in nearly every group I shoot is never more than 1/4" off the group but it bother me and I think it may simply just be me doing it.

This rifle has its factory gas block and is over-gassed. Rather than tuning gas, to this point I've gone to a JP SCS with heavy spring - ejection pattern is now 3:15 on the clock and consistent as can be.

 

[dntworry]

Berger 140 hybrid .120 jump
R16 43.4gr
Tikka CTR 6.5CM

 

[mercervillerental]

Hornady 140gr ELD-M
H4350 41.5gr
Lapua Brass
Fiocchi Lead Free Small Rifle Primers
COAL 2.810
RPR
Avg Velocity 2682
SD ~7

 

[DMP]

Finally got a good week to test my best load at one mile. Conditions were perfect, no mirage, wind 8-10 from 7 oclock. 24 " plate. First shot missed plate by six inches left. Next three are in a 8 inch group.

Tikka Tac with 26" Krieger M24
147 ELDM
41.6 H4350
Lapua case
CCI 450
Elevation 6050'
2737 FPS
SD 4-8

Barrel has 370 rounds, shooting .25-.40 group's.

Really love this combination.

 

[NamibHunter]

Proof Research Stainless 24” (Suppressed)
140 Hornady HPBT match
Hornady Brass
CCI 200
40.6 Reloader 16

Shot some really good groups throughout this testing. Pressure signs at 41.8 grains (2945 fps). Proof makes an accurate, fast barrel.

3/8” or less groups @2797fps (8.7SD)

To everybody that is only considering modern VLD bullets (Hornady ELD-M, Berger Hybrid, Berger VLD), just try the Hornady HPBT projectiles, you just might get good results too. Not to be overlooked just because of the old fashioned design and the slightly lower BC. Unless you are shooting at distances beyond 1000, accuracy is more important than the moderate improvement in wind drift.

Btw: Same applies to old style Sierra SMK’s. Might be “out of fashion”, but they shoot well.

 

[M113A3]

Hornady 140gr ELD-M
H4350 41.5gr
Lapua Brass
Fiocchi Lead Free Small Rifle Primers
COAL 2.810
RPR
Avg Velocity 2682
SD ~7

What length of barrel?

 

[woogie_man]

Hornady 143 gr eldx
H4350 powder
CCI200 primers
Case over all length. 2.775

Just trying to understand and read these results correctly. Shots were at 100 yards in quite stiff wind coming from 3 o'clock from 15-25mph.

Looking at the targets the 40.2 grain load seems to be the tightest group.

Sorry to be "that guy" again. But would rather ask those that know more than me about reloading. As these were my first reloads, after reading the hornady manual and reading around here quite a bit.

 

[Schleifalot]

Is anybody here using

AA2520

in the CM? With what loads (if any)

H4350 is here in Germany no longer available.

I use the Lovex Version of AA2520, the D73.06 in the 308. Good propellant.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I never figured out the exact cause and pretty much came to the same conclusion as you, they must just not be exiting the barrel at the right time. I wondered for a while if it could be just my shooting but after shooting .3 moa consistently at 500 yds with the factory 143 gr eld-x this past weekend I don’t think there’s any way I could mess up that bad at 100 yds. I haven’t had much time lately but my next step is experimenting with seating depth to try and get the bullet to exit the barrel at a better time and hopefully get rid of the flyers.

flyers happen to me when the barrel gets hot after the first couple shots and chambering another round to quickly. now I wait 10-20 seconds between with bolt open.

 

[domdoc]

Is anybody here using

AA2520

in the CM? With what loads (if any)

H4350 is here in Germany no longer available.

I use the Lovex Version of AA2520, the D73.06 in the 308. Good propellant.

Can you get Norma 204 or URP, or Vihtavuori N140 or N540? Any of those should do just fine. I've used N540, and it is probably the one I would recommend. Check their website for loads. N550 provides better velocity. It depends somewhat upon the bullet weight you plan to shoot. Do you mean Lovex D073.6? That should do well, too. Checking more on the Lovex website, it looks like S070 is their equivalent to H4350, so that may solve your problem. Of course, check recommended loads from Lovex, and don't just use the same load as H4350.

 

[Randy_Lahey]

FYI. I got 500 of the Midway "monster match" 123gr HPBT's. I meant to order the 140's but brainfart happened.

Decided to try these out in the Creedmoor. 43gr Reloader 16, Hornady brass 2x fired, 2.72 OAL, Federal #210 LRP= 2800 fps and very nice accuracy at 200-400 yards. I was hitting <3 inch groups at 400 yards, which for me is GOOD. Should be a nice easy plinking load IMO.

 

[Jayjay1]

Berger 140 hybrid .120 jump
R16 43.4gr
Tikka CTR 6.5CM

What is meant with ".120 jump" ?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

What is meant with ".120 jump" ?

Since I have this right in front of me. As an example my rifle and factory hornady 140gr American Gunner which my rifle loves has a jump of .040 before it hits the bore. As you set the bullet deeper into the case it increases the jump to get to the rifling of the bore.

 

[Bryan marks]

So I finally figured out a question I posted a few months ago. I’m shooting a howa 1500 in 6.5 creed. I’m using H-4350 with a 140 eld match loading to standard length and I was piercing primers and having pressure signs at 41.5 grains using new Hornady brass and cci br-2 primers. I couldn’t figure it out. After a lot of measuring I found out that the lee FL sizing die was sizing way to small so my round was smacking the back of the bolt and firing pin. After switching to Hornady match bushing dies and taking good measurements and using a head space gauge to insure a good 2 thousands shoulder bump I’m back and running. So if anyone is in the same boat hopefully this helps.

 

[PDXGS]

Out of curiosity - is anyone in the thread using a Redding Neck Sizing S-type Die? If so, what bushing are you using?
I'm looking to fire-form brass and then just bump the shoulders back and resize the neck.
This is what I've been doing for a competition .260 Rem bolt gun for years to great success/repeatability.
The 6.5 CM loads will be for a SA AR-10 and I'm wondering if I can get by with using the same S-type die bushing on Lapua brass that I'm using for the .260 (which is a 6.5mm 142gn Sierra SMK)

 

[Darkside-Six]

What is meant with ".120 jump" ?

It means that is how far off the lands he is.

 

[Bryan marks]

Out of curiosity - is anyone in the thread using a Redding Neck Sizing S-type Die? If so, what bushing are you using?
I'm looking to fire-form brass and then just bump the shoulders back and resize the neck.
This is what I've been doing for a competition .260 Rem bolt gun for years to great success/repeatability.
The 6.5 CM loads will be for a SA AR-10 and I'm wondering if I can get by with using the same S-type die bushing on Lapua brass that I'm using for the .260 (which is a 6.5mm 142gn Sierra SMK)

Well you need to measure the thickness of the neck to see what size bushing to use. There’s a ton of videos on YouTube on how to do that. Search panhandle Percision He has a good video on that. You can always load up a round using the one you have. take good measurement before and after to see if your getting good neck tension. Then go test.

 

[Jayjay1]

It means that is how far off the lands he is.

Well, thanks, that´s what I thought, but then wasn´t sure because it seems quite a lot to me.
Maybe he meant .012"?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Ever use the AG out to 1000?? Curious

Kind of but not really. Shot it on a virgin rifle scope not zeroed and was getting bad calls that had me dialing the wrong direction. I hit out to about 800.

It shoots consistent 1/2 moa at 100

 

[Lunchbox27]

Ever use the AG out to 1000?? Curious

I have (1125, actually) Its very accurate. If you are just plinking and not trying to get into the top 10 of a match, it will do just fine.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

What do you guys think?

Testing out some RL16
22" barrel
Hornady 140 ELD
No signs of excessive pressure. To be continued.

 

[DMP]

What do you guys think?

Testing out some RL16
22" barrel
Hornady 140 ELD
No signs of excessive pressure. To be continued.
View attachment 7077556

43 to 43.5 is a serious note.