8208 was in stock at Powder Valley earlier today-should go quick.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
6.5 Grendel
- Thread starter padom
- Start date
Anybody have a lead on decent bullets for cheap, preferably under 20 cents?
I'm trying to fireform since I have virgin brass and want to do load development on 1x fired
I'm trying to fireform since I have virgin brass and want to do load development on 1x fired
I’ve used a bucket load of these 123CC prime and seconds. If you want to go to the trouble to sort seconds by base to ogive, they can be more than acceptably accurate. These don’t hit your price point, but are an option.
www.nosler.com
That said, when I’m fireforming new brass, more specifically Lapua, which needs shoulder to set forward about .010 for some unknown reason, I like using tangent shapes which can be seated close to lands for full shoulder movement. Hornady 100gr Amax and 120gr Amax/ELD meet that shape requirement and close on price. Maybe a bit retentive for fire forming, but has worked successfully for 100’s of rounds.
6.5mm 123gr HPBT Custom Competition (100ct) (BLEM)
6.5mm 123gr HPBT Custom Competition (100ct) (BLEM)
www.nosler.com
That said, when I’m fireforming new brass, more specifically Lapua, which needs shoulder to set forward about .010 for some unknown reason, I like using tangent shapes which can be seated close to lands for full shoulder movement. Hornady 100gr Amax and 120gr Amax/ELD meet that shape requirement and close on price. Maybe a bit retentive for fire forming, but has worked successfully for 100’s of rounds.
I’ve used a bucket load of these 123CC prime and seconds. If you want to go to the trouble to sort seconds by base to ogive, they can be more than acceptably accurate. These don’t hit your price point, but are an option.
6.5mm 123gr HPBT Custom Competition (100ct) (BLEM)
6.5mm 123gr HPBT Custom Competition (100ct) (BLEM)
That said, when I’m fireforming new brass, more specifically Lapua, which needs shoulder to set forward about .010 for some unknown reason, I like using tangent shapes which can be seated close to lands for full shoulder movement. Hornady 100gr Amax and 120gr Amax/ELD meet that shape requirement and close on price. Maybe a bit retentive for fire forming, but has worked successfully for 100’s of rounds.
So I can try a few options I just found...
Sierra varminter in 100 grain
Sierra Varminter 6.5mm, 264 Cal (264 Diameter) Bullets 100 Grain
Sierra Varminter Bullets deliver the performance and consistency needed in the demanding sport of varmint hunting. Lightly constructed to provide...
www.midwayusa.com
Sierra Match King in 107
Sierra MatchKing 6.5mm, 264 Cal (264 Diameter) Bullets 107 Grain
Sierra MatchKing bullets have very thin jackets and are held to exacting tolerances in diameter and weight. These Hollow Point Boat Tail bullets have a...
www.midwayusa.com
Or Norma 120 FMJ
But you bring up a great point. I need to go check but I think my virgin Peterson brass is also pretty short in the headspace department. Should I be jamming or kissing lands and using a mild charge for firedorming?
I'm concerned if I don't jam, my brass can grow in the wrong places and thin out by the case web. If I do jam, the case base would be mated up against the bolt face and the brass could only grow forward right?
I'm a new reloader so wanting to make sure I get my stuff right.
I'll go measure in a bit just how short the virgin brass is.
**edit to add**
Ok, idk why I said Peterson but my grendel brass is starline.
I've measured, it grew about 5 and a half thousands so it's not as bad as I anticipated.
Last edited:
These are the results I got with TAC and 123 SST. Not the best groups but at least it seems consistent. Hopefully loading with fireformed brass can show some improvements.
Not sure how extensive your measuring tools are, but are absolutely essential for accurately determining shoulder as fired and correct setback. Much will depend on chamber in your barrel of concern. I have multiple chambers to match setback to, as well as case diameter just forward of base. Some chambers will handle .443-.444 base, a Proof and a Bartlein don’t play above .4412.
To your question about kiss/jamb, is going to depend on bullet selection and ogive location. My Proof loads a 120 Scenar at 2.225 OAL, which is about .025 off lands. Same bullet in a cut rifled Satern can be loaded to mag length, and is still .025-.030 off lands. Measurements matter.
Back on the fire forming question, my Proof fired dimension is 1.1895, I size to 1.188, using Hornady .375 chamber setback gauge. Couple of pics of unfired Lapua brass exhibits my bitch about unnecessarily short shoulders, necessitating burning a 100 components before you have usable brass. WTF, Lapua. Love your brass and bullets, but WTF?
To your question about kiss/jamb, is going to depend on bullet selection and ogive location. My Proof loads a 120 Scenar at 2.225 OAL, which is about .025 off lands. Same bullet in a cut rifled Satern can be loaded to mag length, and is still .025-.030 off lands. Measurements matter.
Back on the fire forming question, my Proof fired dimension is 1.1895, I size to 1.188, using Hornady .375 chamber setback gauge. Couple of pics of unfired Lapua brass exhibits my bitch about unnecessarily short shoulders, necessitating burning a 100 components before you have usable brass. WTF, Lapua. Love your brass and bullets, but WTF?
I'm using the hornady .350 setback Guage but I suppose this won't matter as it's only a tool to give us a reference point for measurement.
I just checked again, my fired case was right at 1.2155 and a new starline was right at 1.208. It seems as though there is some variation either in the new brass or my fired cases. Previously I had measured a difference of 5 and a half thousands, now it's 7 and a half.
Now I need to go spot check more cases to see if I can get a more definitive measurement.
I'm shooting this out of a bolt rifle and able to load long and able to jam. I don't have detachable magazine. I have an internal mag with hinged Floorplate that would allow for it.
Going over my notes, my cbto for kissing lands is right at 1.753. With the bolt stripped, I can load a bullet at 1.752 cbto and it'll fall freely. It won't at 1.753.
I just checked again, my fired case was right at 1.2155 and a new starline was right at 1.208. It seems as though there is some variation either in the new brass or my fired cases. Previously I had measured a difference of 5 and a half thousands, now it's 7 and a half.
Now I need to go spot check more cases to see if I can get a more definitive measurement.
I'm shooting this out of a bolt rifle and able to load long and able to jam. I don't have detachable magazine. I have an internal mag with hinged Floorplate that would allow for it.
Going over my notes, my cbto for kissing lands is right at 1.753. With the bolt stripped, I can load a bullet at 1.752 cbto and it'll fall freely. It won't at 1.753.
Midsouth has the HORNADY 123 BTHP for .32 per round. They actually shoot well. Good luck on anything less than .20 per round.
Thank you. Actually I found a few options on midway at the 20 cent mark and around that price that aren't hornady. We'll see how it goes.
It’s always a good idea to be on notification for Nosler/Shooter’s Pro Shop, Midway, Midsouth, and you can search components with AmmoSeek as well. I usually buy in bulk when there are discounts.
Hornady is generally the brand to beat when it comes to quality/affordability.
Hornady is generally the brand to beat when it comes to quality/affordability.
LRRP
Would sure like to hear your comments as to why Lapua, whose Grendel brass, once formed properly, is excellent, but requires at least .013 shoulder growth to fit most chambers, even on the min spec side. They’re pre-annealed, but require some careful attention in the fire forming process, and burning 100 rounds of components and barrel life to take correct chamber dimensions.
Seems an opportunity for corrective action at Lapua to satisfy the growing 22/6 ARC demand that’s being generated, as well as making for a more efficient reloading process for Grendel, as well.
You’ve done this longer than most all of us, and your input is always thorough and much appreciated.
Would sure like to hear your comments as to why Lapua, whose Grendel brass, once formed properly, is excellent, but requires at least .013 shoulder growth to fit most chambers, even on the min spec side. They’re pre-annealed, but require some careful attention in the fire forming process, and burning 100 rounds of components and barrel life to take correct chamber dimensions.
Seems an opportunity for corrective action at Lapua to satisfy the growing 22/6 ARC demand that’s being generated, as well as making for a more efficient reloading process for Grendel, as well.
You’ve done this longer than most all of us, and your input is always thorough and much appreciated.
Finally bought a box of the 100 eld vt’s the other day. Loaded up just a few to try and shot them this morning. Here is what I saw:
Rifle: Ruger American Predator in a Trybe Chassis with a cheapy Arken SH4 6-24 and stock trigger.
Weather/Elevation: 76-80 degrees with no wind and 5200’ ASL
Loads: all were Lapua brass, 7-1/2 primer, 8208XBR and 1.8 BTO, which is right at .020 off of jam.
28 grains - avg. 2666.6 FPS 12.3 SD 33 ES
28.5 grains - avg. 2726.5 FPS 5.2 SD 14.2 ES
28.8 grains - avg. 2748.9 FPS 5.0 SD 14.5 ES
29.1 grains - avg. 2785.4 FPS 16.3 SD 43.7 ES
29.4 grains - avg. 2825.7 FPS 9.4 SD 25.4 ES
28 and 29.4 shot the best at just about 1/2” on both. But, those SD’s are not my favorite. Gonna run AR Comp next probably. I would continue to go up above 29.4, but I don’t know that I want to push too hard with XBR as it will get outta hand pretty quick at the upper limits. But there was no cratering and no case head marks at 29.4.
Rifle: Ruger American Predator in a Trybe Chassis with a cheapy Arken SH4 6-24 and stock trigger.
Weather/Elevation: 76-80 degrees with no wind and 5200’ ASL
Loads: all were Lapua brass, 7-1/2 primer, 8208XBR and 1.8 BTO, which is right at .020 off of jam.
28 grains - avg. 2666.6 FPS 12.3 SD 33 ES
28.5 grains - avg. 2726.5 FPS 5.2 SD 14.2 ES
28.8 grains - avg. 2748.9 FPS 5.0 SD 14.5 ES
29.1 grains - avg. 2785.4 FPS 16.3 SD 43.7 ES
29.4 grains - avg. 2825.7 FPS 9.4 SD 25.4 ES
28 and 29.4 shot the best at just about 1/2” on both. But, those SD’s are not my favorite. Gonna run AR Comp next probably. I would continue to go up above 29.4, but I don’t know that I want to push too hard with XBR as it will get outta hand pretty quick at the upper limits. But there was no cratering and no case head marks at 29.4.
Yeah those are the ones I posted earlier along with a couple others I found discounted.
I’ve just loaded the Lapua brass and shot it repeatedly since 2009 and not worried about it. It seems to last forever. Some guys shot the head stamps out of Lapua brass after over 20 firings. I have noticed the significant shoulder movement from unfired to fired with factory ammo and virgin brass, but once-fired, don’t really care anymore.
The only problem I had with Lapua brass was when I first started loading it and I was still using Imperial sizing wax. I put too much lube on a few necks and had some hydro-formed pockets and one split neck.
Once I went to Hornady One Shot spray lube, I’ve never had an issue again, though it was purely operator error with the Imperial wax. One-Shot is just easier for me to case-lube and get uniform coating on and inside the necks of all my brass.
My 31.2gr CFE223 under 123gr Hornady load spits out new-looking Lapua brass from unsuppressed Grendels. I load the same in Hornady brass too.
One thing I can say is that I have never had a failure to feed, fire, and extract with any of my Grendel hand loads. Once your sizing die is dialed-in using the Hornady (used to be Stoney Point) headspace comparator, you’re pretty much set. I check my primer seating depths and double-weigh charges, double-seat projectiles for concentricity.
Once I started loading Grendel, messing with hand-loading .223 just seemed like a waste of SRPs and my time after seeing the difference on-target for what I’m doing.
I got 2 questions for you...
I'm a fairly new reloader.
How are you checking primer seating depth and what do you mean by "double seat projectiles for comcentricity"?
Appreciate your comments, and largely agree that after once fired initially, Lapua lasts through many firings-I do anneal all my brass after every firing, and is very uniform in case weight through multiple lots. My gripe is having to grow shoulders .013-.016, depending on chamber, from new. And have seen some of the dreaded ‘shoulder’ or belt above case rims, not knowing if associated with initial firing and excessive headspace or early unlocking.
All said, would just rather see base to shoulder about another .010-.011 longer on unfired brass, and don’t understand why Lapua can’t improve on same in their manufacturing process.
All said, would just rather see base to shoulder about another .010-.011 longer on unfired brass, and don’t understand why Lapua can’t improve on same in their manufacturing process.
Last edited:
Primers should not be flush with the case head. They need to be seated at least .003” deeper. I use my calipers as a depth gauge with the tail as a QC process when priming. I was raised using a hand tool for priming, but I personally prefer using the press to prime (about one of the only things a Lee press is good for
).
When double-seating to tighten up runout, after the cases are charged and it’s time to seat bullets, I do an initial seating without going all the way, then rotate the cartridge in the shell holder, and then final-seat. It makes it so the bullet isn’t cock-eyed in the neck, and helps with precision. There have been large sample size comparisons done that showed improvement in grouping.
I have had excellent results from lightweight Grendel AR-15s at 1000yds with these loads, even with ball powder (CFE223). If I used 8208XBR or AR Comp, I’m sure I could shrink my groups, but those stick powders aren’t as available as ball powders due to how much harder it is to make them and crank out consistent burn-rate lots. It’s the whole reason the Army had Winchester load WC846 ball powder in 1963, instead of the IMR4475 stick powder the AR-15 had been engineered around.
Lol, are you assuming I don't have the right primer seater? Gtfo if you have nothing to add...
Primers should not be flush with the case head. They need to be seated at least .003” deeper. I use my calipers as a depth gauge with the tail as a QC process when priming. I was raised using a hand tool for priming, but I personally prefer using the press to prime (about one of the only things a Lee press is good for
When double-seating to tighten up runout, after the cases are charged and it’s time to seat bullets, I do an initial seating without going all the way, then rotate the cartridge in the shell holder, and then final-seat. It makes it so the bullet isn’t cock-eyed in the neck, and helps with precision. There have been large sample size comparisons done that showed improvement in grouping.
I have had excellent results from lightweight Grendel AR-15s at 1000yds with these loads, even with ball powder (CFE223). If I used 8208XBR or AR Comp, I’m sure I could shrink my groups, but those stick powders aren’t as available as ball powders due to how much harder it is to make them and crank out consistent burn-rate lots. It’s the whole reason the Army had Winchester load WC846 ball powder in 1963, instead of the IMR4475 stick powder the AR-15 had been engineered around.
That double seat is a good tip. I had never heard of it. I already sit primers below flush. I just wasn't sure how people were measuring the depth. Good to know the back of the micrometer is what others use.
Thanks...
Just got back from the deer lease testing some loads. Whoever said you can't get enough varget in a grendel case and achieve decent MVs is wrong. Well partially wrong at least. I'm shooting on a bolt rifle platform so I'm sure it won't work in an AR.
I'll drop this here.
Top row is my 6.5 CM so that does not pertain to this. The middle section and lower section though, are from my 2 grendel rifles.
Groups were not really really good. I'm sure they could benefit from some tweaking, maybe using a different projectile or tuning with setting depth.
The very bottom row, which is for the 18" grendel, has 3 round groups for the first 3 charge weights and 4 round groups for the remaining. Everything else is 5 round groups.
I'll drop this here.
Top row is my 6.5 CM so that does not pertain to this. The middle section and lower section though, are from my 2 grendel rifles.
Groups were not really really good. I'm sure they could benefit from some tweaking, maybe using a different projectile or tuning with setting depth.
The very bottom row, which is for the 18" grendel, has 3 round groups for the first 3 charge weights and 4 round groups for the remaining. Everything else is 5 round groups.
Similar threads
