6.5 Grendel
- Thread starter padom
- Start date
Not factory ammo, but I run my 123gr ELD-M handloads at 2.250" OAL for use in AR mags. I've never messed with seating depth to see if it would tighten up the ~1.5" 5 shot groups I get as they're accurate enough for me.
My problem is I’m chasing group size. My rifle likes the factory Hornady loadings but I can’t seem to match the performance with my hand loads so seating depth is my last hurrah before I call it a day. There’s worse things I could be doing with my time though I suppose.
Factory 123Eldm BTO.
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I have a 16" ruger ranch grendel, starline brass, 123eld and 8208.
Im feeling like I should be getting or able to get higher velocities...
28.6gr of 8208 gets me 2395-2415..... I have zero pressure signs but hear 8208 can spike quickly in this range...
Im feeling like I should be getting or able to get higher velocities...
28.6gr of 8208 gets me 2395-2415..... I have zero pressure signs but hear 8208 can spike quickly in this range...
That seems pretty close to what I’d expect from a 16” barrel. Nosler lists 27 grains as max load for 8208 with a 123. Your load might be safe in your rifle but I’d have to suspect you’re getting close to pressure even in a bolt gun. If you want more velocity you might have to step down in projectile weight.
I’m good with the velocity, if that’s normal. It’s been a while since I’ve messed with a grendel. I know it’s not a fast round but as long as I’m in the ballpark of where I should be.
I shot a 5 shot group suppressed and was about .75”, threw the MagnetoSpeed on and shot a 10 shot group and it opened up to about 1.25”
That’s not the accuracy I’m used to, for sure but not bad with this crap trigger, cheap stock and cheap rifle.
ES of 25 and SD of 8 with that 10 shot group
I think you’re in the ballpark. It’s been a while since I looked at a factory box of 123’s but I think it lists 2500ish fps from Hornady’s test rig, which is going to be a longer barrel.
Most industry standard tests are done with 24 inches of barrel.
Your 8 inches short of that and only 100 fps below.
That's very good.
I would have figured for 8 inches 200 fps would be a normal loss but I'm thinking in 3200 fps rounds so there are a lot of variables working.
Have a 308 that's running 37 fps slow per inch and most of my 223's are 25 fps per inch.
Anyway when I can I crono a factory round and add the loss per inch into my notes.
It's a good reference.
Your 8 inches short of that and only 100 fps below.
That's very good.
I would have figured for 8 inches 200 fps would be a normal loss but I'm thinking in 3200 fps rounds so there are a lot of variables working.
Have a 308 that's running 37 fps slow per inch and most of my 223's are 25 fps per inch.
Anyway when I can I crono a factory round and add the loss per inch into my notes.
It's a good reference.
My 18" Grendel with 123s is just a hair above your numbers, and I am a bit over book.
Factory 123 A-Max I have Chronographed are about 100fps faster, but I have seen pressure signs and broke an extractor with them and will buy no more. The 123 SST at 2400 muzzle are very effective for hunting and I start to lose accuracy if I push hotter.
Factory 123 A-Max I have Chronographed are about 100fps faster, but I have seen pressure signs and broke an extractor with them and will buy no more. The 123 SST at 2400 muzzle are very effective for hunting and I start to lose accuracy if I push hotter.
Was using 123sst and 8208, mediocre results, varget same.
Then came brandon and the powder drought . Had cfe223 and chased velocity, waste of my time really.
Not sure if I'm going to blow any of my tac under them or just shit can them instead.
Sierra makes a short hpbt130g game king and as soon as I can get some these 123's are going in the shit pile with the rest of the hornady bullets where they belong.
Then came brandon and the powder drought . Had cfe223 and chased velocity, waste of my time really.
Not sure if I'm going to blow any of my tac under them or just shit can them instead.
Sierra makes a short hpbt130g game king and as soon as I can get some these 123's are going in the shit pile with the rest of the hornady bullets where they belong.
I'm surprised that several of you guys are screwing around with CFE223, AA2520, etc but nobody's mentioned Lever. It's been a clear winner for both velocity and accuracy in mine with the 120-123gr loads, and even the 129 ABLR.
For example, while ~2,310 fps is a pretty warm max in my 12.5" barrel with the 123 ELD and 8208 XBR, Lever will take the same bullet to 2,400 with equal or better accuracy. Just gotta deal with the temp sensitivity, but that applies to the other ball powders mentioned above anyway. I have found that it shoots best when really stepping on the gas, so to speak; to the point that my load development for Lever consists of finding max, back off a hair, and then just adjusting seating depth to find the best groups.
For example, while ~2,310 fps is a pretty warm max in my 12.5" barrel with the 123 ELD and 8208 XBR, Lever will take the same bullet to 2,400 with equal or better accuracy. Just gotta deal with the temp sensitivity, but that applies to the other ball powders mentioned above anyway. I have found that it shoots best when really stepping on the gas, so to speak; to the point that my load development for Lever consists of finding max, back off a hair, and then just adjusting seating depth to find the best groups.
According to Hornady the 123 SST expands at 1600fps and some say even lower.
My 12.5" runs 2,169fps muzzle with my hand load from previous post and has done well against hogs.
I know that is not great velocity and will probably switch to the CFE223 I have on hand after I use up the A2520 I already have. CFE is also a double base powder and is supposed to get a little more velocity.
My 12.5" runs 2,169fps muzzle with my hand load from previous post and has done well against hogs.
I know that is not great velocity and will probably switch to the CFE223 I have on hand after I use up the A2520 I already have. CFE is also a double base powder and is supposed to get a little more velocity.
Yes that’s a very slow load, as we’ve discussed several times before. You’re getting the same speed from an 18” barrel as I’m getting from a 12.5”. That’s also been your basis for your claims in the past that the 300 Blk is more powerful, which is purely based on your very slow handload; that load isn’t giving you a good representation of what the Grendel can do.
CFE223 does not give as good results as Lever, and spikes pressure harder when you reach max IME. I’ve quit using it altogether, no need to when Lever exists.
I accepted in the post about Blackout that my Grendel velocities were low compared to many others. I am also a hair over book max and happy with the performance.
Might give Lever a try, it looks like it should gain me 120 fps roughly. I just hate adding another powder to the cabinet if I do not have to. Not sure I will notice a difference in terminal performance either so maybe not worth it to me?
What is your load and what do the books say is max? I keep close to book max so I do not have to worry about breaking another extractor. Picking up 230fps seems a big jump unless also going way over book max.
This article has some load data on both powders.
6.5 Grendel Load Data - Shooting Times
Precision 6.5 Grendel load data for AR-15 rifles; here's what you need to know.
www.shootingtimes.com
Does Lever burn cleaner than CFE223? I find it (CFE223) to be dirty. Suppressed its worse.I accepted in the post about Blackout that my Grendel velocities were low compared to many others. I am also a hair over book max and happy with the performance.
Might give Lever a try, it looks like it should gain me 120 fps roughly. I just hate adding another powder to the cabinet if I do not have to. Not sure I will notice a difference in terminal performance either so maybe not worth it to me?
What is your load and what do the books say is max? I keep close to book max so I do not have to worry about breaking another extractor. Picking up 230fps seems a big jump unless also going way over book max.
This article has some load data on both powders.
6.5 Grendel Load Data - Shooting Times
Precision 6.5 Grendel load data for AR-15 rifles; here's what you need to know.
Do not know about in 6.5G, but CFE223 is dirty suppressed in 223 until the load gets hot, then it is OK.
Sounds like I should give Lever a try.
Sadly I have not found a goo replacement for 8208 with the 123ELDMs and I am running low, down to 1/2 lbs.
I guess CFE223 and 130 Berger load development is in my near future.
I guess CFE223 and 130 Berger load development is in my near future.
I was using sst 123 and 8208.
Ran about out of 8208 so got the tac and have not loaded it yet.
I really want to get some 130 sgk's instead but have been unattainable.
May have to use up the 300 sst's with the tac but wanted a better bullet to work up with the new powder.
Ran about out of 8208 so got the tac and have not loaded it yet.
I really want to get some 130 sgk's instead but have been unattainable.
May have to use up the 300 sst's with the tac but wanted a better bullet to work up with the new powder.
I have a few hundred of the 130 OTM bergers, I got decent results with the CFE223 but the lack of temp stability was aggravating.
I think the Berger's bullets are very close to the same, couldn't find any of those iether. (They expand?) They have a 135 that will but just a bit much for 6.5g and pretty pricey. Also can't get hold of.
I don't think cfe223 will give outstanding results with those iether , a 100g class bullet probably. I come to think light to medium bullets per cartridge is what cfe223 is good at.
I have read on SH several times that the tac is good for medium to heavy for caliber.
I consider a 130 ish max for a grendel personally. That shorter otm type profile will be fine to mid range, probably 200 yards farther than I would take most game anyway.
I don't think cfe223 will give outstanding results with those iether , a 100g class bullet probably. I come to think light to medium bullets per cartridge is what cfe223 is good at.
I have read on SH several times that the tac is good for medium to heavy for caliber.
I consider a 130 ish max for a grendel personally. That shorter otm type profile will be fine to mid range, probably 200 yards farther than I would take most game anyway.
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Should be very doable. Till I can locate another 8# of AR Comp, have just run a bunch of 120/123’s with CFE and either RP 7.5’s or CCI450’s in 20” Proof and Bartleins in Hornady brass and got between 2500-2560 depending on charge weights. CFE SD’s seem to improve as you get near to max charge weights, which of course you need to work up in your barrel. Mine are fairly new with pretty tight chamber dimensions. Proceed with due diligence.
Same... Also the Hornady Black with the 123 ELDs shoot like shit in all of my Grendels, as well. Like +1.5" groups at 100 with 3 shots. Not good. My handloads with Nosler 123 CC's are putting sub-1/2 MOA 3-shots down...Typically in the 0.3xx" range.
Fuh-
What’s your load details-that’s a pretty solid result if consistent? How far off lands and what brand barrel/length?
What’s your load details-that’s a pretty solid result if consistent? How far off lands and what brand barrel/length?
That’s where we part, however. “Black” 123 eld of bthp have been money in both of mine- like why am I reloading?
Factory Black and the American Gunner have performed well in all three of mine.
If they had shot better, I would have been doing the same, especially when they used to cost $16.99 a box. Back in the day I bought TONS of Hornady Match, Custom, & Black 123 SST and AMax, and ELD (all used the same brass). But now that everyone wants $35+ a box…Fuck that. I have enough 1x fired 6.5G brass stored up that I don’t need brass for quite a while, especially not at the current gouge pricing.
Details in the last few pages of this thread. Faxon 5R Match Fluted Heavy Barrel. Nosler 123 CC’s, Hornady brass, CFE-223, CCI 450’s. I seat them 0.020” off. I use some old stainless C-Products Defense mags that allow proper feeding, and still able to seat 0.020” off.
Charge weight will very in each rifle, but it’s pretty warm. However, it doesn’t shows any pressure signs in my rifle.
Been using SW Match for a long time. Some data can be found SW manual. Bought this powder to use in .223 and .308 but it also works in AA 6.5 Grendel, 16" barrel with 123gr SST's. Have some 123 gr ELD-m to load just haven't.
Let Me Google That
For all those people that find it more convenient to bother you with their question than to google it for themselves.
sorry to bother ya!Let Me Google That
For all those people that find it more convenient to bother you with their question than to google it for themselves.letmegooglethat.com
Here's the google result genious.Let Me Google That
For all those people that find it more convenient to bother you with their question than to google it for themselves.
node
noun
ˈnōd1
a
: a pathological swelling or enlargement (as of a rheumatic joint)
b
: a discrete mass of one kind of tissue enclosed in tissue of a different kind
2
: an entangling complication (as in a drama) : PREDICAMENT
3
: either of the two points where the orbit of a planet or comet intersects the ecliptic
also : either of the points at which the orbit of an earth satellite crosses the plane of the equator
4
a
: a point, line, or surface of a vibrating body or system that is free or relatively free from vibratory motion
b
: a point at which a wave has an amplitude of zero
5
a
: a point at which subsidiary parts originate or center
b
: a point on a stem at which a leaf or leaves are inserted
c
: a point at which a curve intersects itself in such a manner that the branches have different tangents
Now tell me how that applies to reloading a frigg'n bullet!
Im guessing you dont know how what I posted for you works.... Did you even click the link on my post? It googles it for you........ since you didnt want to google it...
Funny that your sarcasm just makes you look even more "smart"
Funny . . . your response sounded pretty sarcastic smart guy.
This should stop right here before your keyboard gets the
better of you.
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Sort of, but it's not spelled out in the context of the reloading world. I can understand how someone new might not know what we're talking about in reference to a "node". And he even asked that we forgive his ignorance, but someone still had to be a smartass instead of just helping.
Weldit - when we talk about a node in reference to loading for a precision rifle, we're looking at a progression of (usually) powder charges or seating depth, and looking for a cluster of points that all result in very similar point of impact, or velocity, etc.
Although to be fair, in the context of the post you had replied to in your question, the concept of finding a "node" in velocity from a string of a single shot at each charge is highly questionable at best. It's no surprise at all that he saw a different "node" when he repeated it - what he thinks is a "node" is far more likely to be just a random clustering of the data.*
*This is a lot like 3 shot groups - if you look at a group of 10 or more shots, you can almost always pick at least one or two three shot groups within that 10 shots that would measure out as a much smaller group size. Now imagine by random chance you'd fired just those three shots - that's why 3 shot groups are so unreliable as an indicator of performance. But that person's shot string above was essentially using 1 shot "groups" (sample sizes) - far worse than even 3 shot groups.
Hope that helps.
Chill man. Someone new asked a question and didn't try to act smarter than you. Don't be an ass.
