Thanks for reply, good to know it's not just me. Thought my puter was acting up.
6.5 Grendel
- Thread starter padom
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Not a clue either. LRRPF may have some info to share. Would hope a site update or hopefully not hackers. Agree, however, it’s a mess as is.
Well dang. It looks like the same thing that happened to the 300blackout forum. I wonder if it got mothballed or someone didn't pay a bill. Who knows.
Hackers. Site Admin is working on it.
Thanks for info. Don't understand why people do this stuff, makes no sense to me.
Apparently the Hackers did a really fine job, site still not up. I hope it can be repaired and return to service. I'm sure many miss the forum.
In case anyone didn’t see it yet, Hodgdon’s published 170 loads for 6.5 Grendel recently. They had 40 published loads prior to the update, and the update includes CFE223, LeveRevolution, and StaBALL Match.
In our own testing with calibrated test breech and RSI with better gauges, we saw that my CFE223 loads under a 123gr A-MAX were well below 50,000psi. Hodgdon’s shows some interesting data for CFE223 under the 123gr SMK loaded to 2.250” COL. 24” barrel
Loaded to 2.275” COL with 123gr A-MAX, 16” AA barrel
31.1gr 2489fps 45,711psi
31.4gr 2520fps 47,302psi
31.7gr 2532fps 48,893psi
123gr A-MAX, ELD-M, SST, and American Gunner BTHP are shorter than the 123gr SMK, with less case intrusion.
In our own testing with calibrated test breech and RSI with better gauges, we saw that my CFE223 loads under a 123gr A-MAX were well below 50,000psi. Hodgdon’s shows some interesting data for CFE223 under the 123gr SMK loaded to 2.250” COL. 24” barrel
| 28.4gr start load | 2,352fps | 36,800 PSI |
|
Loaded to 2.275” COL with 123gr A-MAX, 16” AA barrel
31.1gr 2489fps 45,711psi
31.4gr 2520fps 47,302psi
31.7gr 2532fps 48,893psi
123gr A-MAX, ELD-M, SST, and American Gunner BTHP are shorter than the 123gr SMK, with less case intrusion.
I'd not seen that.
THANK YOU.
You don't know how timely you are.
I've got 100 6.5 Grendel cases out now on the bench getting ready to prep & load for range trip next Wednesday.
So I'm late to the party, but I built a 6.5 Grendel last month (6ARC this month!) Been buying up ammo, to include Wolf when I find decent deals.
Last week I ordered these bullets; I have a good bullet puller & dies. I plan to try my hand at making some "Mexican match" I will start gathering my components for 6arc, 6.5g & 6.5cm! Midsouth shooters supply has a regular free hazmat shipping sale, and usually good stock!
Last week I ordered these bullets; I have a good bullet puller & dies. I plan to try my hand at making some "Mexican match" I will start gathering my components for 6arc, 6.5g & 6.5cm! Midsouth shooters supply has a regular free hazmat shipping sale, and usually good stock!
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I was wondering the same thing. I thought it was just my I Pad messing up. Tried to go in one day and I couldn't figure out how to navigate. Nothing would come up. Hope it is able to be saved. Tons of great stuff there.
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I was just their now and it has been updated and working fine now. (6.5 Grendel Forum)
20" Odin Works Stainless Match 1:8 twist barrel w/Area 419 Hellfire Match Muzzle Brake
CCI #41 primers
Starline Brass
29.3 - 30.2 grains/CFE-223*
123gr Hornady SST
COL-2.250
*In the process of load development!
CCI #41 primers
Starline Brass
29.3 - 30.2 grains/CFE-223*
123gr Hornady SST
COL-2.250
*In the process of load development!
If you look at Hodgdon’s data, 31.2gr of CFE223 under a much longer 123gr SMK generated 48,700psi.
31.2gr of CFE223 has been my go-to under any of the Hornady 123gr bullets since 2014.
Last week, I took my son down to the range complex I love so much in Central Utah, and for some reason, I had an old mag full of that 31.2gr CFE223 on 123gr A-MAX hand loads.
Wind was strong and gusting from West to East as usual, about 3/4 value with the flags streaming at about 80% extended. My Kestrel wind meter showed anywhere from 6-14mph.
I loaded up in the 17.6” Lilja Grendel, dialed in my dope for elevation and held 1.5 mils into the wind, and 1st-round connected with a center-punch on an 18” plate at 600yds. Had the conditions been more tame, I would have had no reservations about trying for a 1st-round out farther.
I then took the 12” Grendel and connected 1st-round at 600yds and 700yds on larger gongs, using the 1-6x24 GRSC reticle holds. That was with 123gr ELD-M factory ammo.
We started out shooting at the Buffalo Canyon range behind the Cowboy Town, the did some pistol work inside the bays, then drove up to the 1000yd range to shoot some more LR. We took a total of 3 of my Grendels for that trip. 12”, 17.6” Lilja, and 18” LaRue Stealth.
I’ll do a 7yr review on the LaRue soon. I forgot how fun it is to shoot that rifle. So slick and doesn’t move when you break the shot.
Wind was strong and gusting from West to East as usual, about 3/4 value with the flags streaming at about 80% extended. My Kestrel wind meter showed anywhere from 6-14mph.
I loaded up in the 17.6” Lilja Grendel, dialed in my dope for elevation and held 1.5 mils into the wind, and 1st-round connected with a center-punch on an 18” plate at 600yds. Had the conditions been more tame, I would have had no reservations about trying for a 1st-round out farther.
I then took the 12” Grendel and connected 1st-round at 600yds and 700yds on larger gongs, using the 1-6x24 GRSC reticle holds. That was with 123gr ELD-M factory ammo.
We started out shooting at the Buffalo Canyon range behind the Cowboy Town, the did some pistol work inside the bays, then drove up to the 1000yd range to shoot some more LR. We took a total of 3 of my Grendels for that trip. 12”, 17.6” Lilja, and 18” LaRue Stealth.
I’ll do a 7yr review on the LaRue soon. I forgot how fun it is to shoot that rifle. So slick and doesn’t move when you break the shot.
Sounds like a great day with your son.
I ran that same combination except different brand of barrel.
The cfe223 ran around one moa best I could do. I think it likes medium to light projectiles in any load it's used.
Same when I used it for 308, 223 69g, all would run at or very slightly below moa at best.
Tac and 123's is my next project for the 6.5g
Good insight there.
Thanks for posting it.
I picked up a couple jugs of CFE223 prior to riots & Covid.
I still haven’t used it.
Last time I checked we can still get TAC for lower cost than many other options.
TAC will be what tap into first when I get around to 6.5 Grendel.
TAC with a 123gr Hornady seated over it….in a Starline case.
I have more than 8lb of cfe223 also due to the covid (scam) shortage, and when it depleted I found h335 for 223 and fell in love. Had to make my sons 308 rounds with the cfe223 when our beloved Varget dried up.
I will keep some around since it's versital and moa dependable.
@Shooter2747
keep us posted on that 223cfe round.
I would like to see if it's just my barrel, all things else being a wash equipment wise on our rigs.
I also am sceptical of the sst bullets.
I will keep some around since it's versital and moa dependable.
@Shooter2747
keep us posted on that 223cfe round.
I would like to see if it's just my barrel, all things else being a wash equipment wise on our rigs.
I also am sceptical of the sst bullets.
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If you want groups to really brag about in Grendel, use 8208XBR or AR Comp from a high-end pipe under SMKs, Scenars, or Bergers, but good luck finding those powders. 107gr SMK on 8208XBR spit from a Bart, Krieger, Lilja, Shilen, JP, etc. is a giggle experience
My local grocery store had 3 1lb kegs of 8208XBR on the shelf not too long ago, even during multiple trips there I saw. I took it for granted that it would still be there, but after notifying my friends on our group chat, it disappeared of course.
I’ve been stocking up 8208XBR but haven’t loaded anything with it in years.
CFE223 seems to have great availability, meters well, you can’t seem to put too much of it in a Grendel case as you will fill the case under anything up to 123gr. You will start to see excess pressure if you push 129gr and heavier with it, but only slightly so.
TAC and H335 are also great powders in Grendel.
My experience with CFE223 since about 2012 is that it shoots around .5 MOA 3rd groups from Lilja, 1 MOA 5rd Groups, and 1.5 MOA 10rd groups. That’s from my Wasp lightweight Grendel barrels that feel like an old-school M4 without SOPMOD accessories.
I don’t really like shooting much at 100yds, and prefer to shoot steel from 400-1200yds. 100yd grouping and zero-confirmation are necessary-but-burdensome tasks in the way of getting out and ringing steel.
My local grocery store had 3 1lb kegs of 8208XBR on the shelf not too long ago, even during multiple trips there I saw. I took it for granted that it would still be there, but after notifying my friends on our group chat, it disappeared of course.
I’ve been stocking up 8208XBR but haven’t loaded anything with it in years.
CFE223 seems to have great availability, meters well, you can’t seem to put too much of it in a Grendel case as you will fill the case under anything up to 123gr. You will start to see excess pressure if you push 129gr and heavier with it, but only slightly so.
TAC and H335 are also great powders in Grendel.
My experience with CFE223 since about 2012 is that it shoots around .5 MOA 3rd groups from Lilja, 1 MOA 5rd Groups, and 1.5 MOA 10rd groups. That’s from my Wasp lightweight Grendel barrels that feel like an old-school M4 without SOPMOD accessories.
I don’t really like shooting much at 100yds, and prefer to shoot steel from 400-1200yds. 100yd grouping and zero-confirmation are necessary-but-burdensome tasks in the way of getting out and ringing steel.
They still have their older data and the newly-published data, with quite the variation between identical loads.
Is it a change to their pressure transducer, propellant burn rates have shifted, or something else?
I don’t know, but I noticed it immediately because I have gone over their original 40 loads for 6.5 Grendel hundreds of times.
I have a great idea, why don't you bother to point out the mistake to them. Lol
I had a concern and All I got was a shithead lawyer and chief spindoctor.
I eaven explained how the mistake happened and they told me to shut the fuck up.
That it does. Good catch, I missed that. That said, you think a match primer is going to make it go 2 FPS slower with 1.3 grains more powder and 6k less pressure? Im not thinking so.
My inkling is that something more meaningful has changed, whether it be propellant burn rate from these later lots, or something else.
It’s one of the reasons why I always chase the latest load data available and collect it from multiple sources to get as close to the component combos I have, if not exactly what I’m using.
Brass volume also changes lot-to-lot and over the years.
It’s one of the reasons why I always chase the latest load data available and collect it from multiple sources to get as close to the component combos I have, if not exactly what I’m using.
Brass volume also changes lot-to-lot and over the years.
Does anyone know why Hornady has separate gas and bolt hand loads for 6 ARC and the new 22 ARC but not for any of the other AR cartridges, especially the 6.5 Grendel? It looks like they can pack in an extra grain and a half or so for their bolt loads. Maybe due to the typical volume / case intrusion of 6.5 Grendel, there is just not any more room to pack in an extra grain and a half? I am only guessing.
Has anybody tried or succeeded in developing loads for any of the following bullets in 6.5 Gren?
1. Hornady A-Tip 135gr
2. Hornady ELD-X 143gr
3. Nosler ABLR 142gr
4. Barnes LRX-BT 129gr
5. Sierra TGK 130gr
6. Berger VLD-H 130gr
7. Federal TA 130gr
Seems like some of these long range high BC bullets designed to reliably expand at lower speeds could be a good fit for the Grendel with its moderate muzzle velocities.
1. Hornady A-Tip 135gr
2. Hornady ELD-X 143gr
3. Nosler ABLR 142gr
4. Barnes LRX-BT 129gr
5. Sierra TGK 130gr
6. Berger VLD-H 130gr
7. Federal TA 130gr
Seems like some of these long range high BC bullets designed to reliably expand at lower speeds could be a good fit for the Grendel with its moderate muzzle velocities.
Have you actually ben able to get any of those bullets?
I'd love to get hold of Sierra tgk's.
It's a niche market and it's not serviced well.
I'm not loading hornady 123's because I like them, I can't get my hands on good bullets.
I'd love to get hold of Sierra tgk's.
It's a niche market and it's not serviced well.
I'm not loading hornady 123's because I like them, I can't get my hands on good bullets.
No, I'm just trying to plan out a hunting/tactical gun in the AR platform and 6.5 Gren seems to be the best, though 6 ARC or even the new 22 ARC have a lot of potential. Trying to get a good idea of what bullets are out there. Some of the 130gr and heavier bullets may be too long to seat properly. Sorry, your much further along than me. Just relaying what I've found with some arm-chair research.
Not far compared to my mentors on here. Lol
The 6 arc technically has a lot of promise but you have to steal brass from under the 6.5g guys noses. I no longer post when brass for 6.5g is available because of that.
Niether cartridge is supported well, gee who ran them through SAAMI ? .LOL
So decent projectiles hard to get in one and brass hard to get in the other, want to buy some shity factory rounds? Lol
The 6 arc technically has a lot of promise but you have to steal brass from under the 6.5g guys noses. I no longer post when brass for 6.5g is available because of that.
Niether cartridge is supported well, gee who ran them through SAAMI ? .LOL
So decent projectiles hard to get in one and brass hard to get in the other, want to buy some shity factory rounds? Lol
Towhead-While all of the heavy for Grendel bullets you’ve noted above might be ‘potentially’ suitable for a bolt action Grendel-and that’s a stretch, they’re all secant shapes and will be long for their weight and miles from the lands in most chambers. That, and you’ll have used most of your valuable case capacity to seat to mag length in all but a heavily modified AR magazine.
My humble suggestion, if in an AR platform, would be to stick to 123 Sierra, 123 Scenar or 123 ELD’s and if you want a heavier, high performance bullet, look at Nosler 129 ABLR’s. The 123’s can get you to 2500-2550 barrel dependent and 129’s to 2400-2450. Save the heavy, sleek bullets for a 6.5x47 or 6.5CM.
My humble suggestion, if in an AR platform, would be to stick to 123 Sierra, 123 Scenar or 123 ELD’s and if you want a heavier, high performance bullet, look at Nosler 129 ABLR’s. The 123’s can get you to 2500-2550 barrel dependent and 129’s to 2400-2450. Save the heavy, sleek bullets for a 6.5x47 or 6.5CM.
I shoot the 130 TMK out of a bolt gun under 26.3 gn of h-4895 with rem 7 1/2's and Lapua brass at 1.723 BTO. The bullets will pop up but h4895 seems to be unobtanium right now and has been for awhile. The load isn't fast but its super accurate, has been hell on hogs and deer sub 200 yards and peeled lots of paint off of steel out to 700. Its definitely a little crunchy when seating.
135gr A-TIP: Yes, with some pretty impressive 26-28” barrel loads that kinda make the 6.5CM marginal.
143gr ELD-X: I might have seen someone do them in a bolt gun loaded long single-fed.
142gr ABLR: Not sure, but 129gr ABLR is a factory load and much more popular and appropriate for Grendel COL.
127gr LRX: Yes
130gr TGK: Yes
130gr Bergers have been a factory load for a long time across several companies, to include Federal Gold Medal Match and now Remington Match.
130gr Terminal Ascent: Yes, and this is a great bullet in 6.5 Grendel, though I’m not aware of a factory load. There were pulls available from 6.5CM ammo that had some water damage on the boxes, but they went quick. Expansion is far better than I expected at 400yds. There’s a guy who shot them into water bins on his YouTube channel and they really opened up nicely with consistent controlled expansion well beyond double caliber.
The highest BC 130gr is the Nosler RDF, though you hear inconsistent grouping from people in other cartridges. I have a bunch of them I need to load and shoot.
The biggest challenge of course with 130-140gr class of bullets is lower velocity, but they still cut through the wind very well.
With CFE223, a 129-130gr will do ~2500fps from a 22-24” barrel at 50ksi chamber pressure and 2.260” COL. 129gr ABLR did 2410fps from an 18” barrel at 50ksi.
There are 124 active factory loads for 6.5 Grendel as of my last count in December, 2023. Even I was shocked at how many there are now.
When I loaded the 129gr SST on LeveRevolution at 2.310” COL in the Howa mini action, I got maybe 50-75fps more velocity and sticky bolt lift, meaning the case expanded so much that it was difficult to unlock the action.
With the 123gr SST in the 22” Howa bolt gun, I was able to load to 2600fps at 2.250” COL.
With smaller cases, I think it makes sense to not chase pressure and find a happy place with moderate, consistent pressure for your accuracy and performance window.
My CFE223 loads under 123gr are 40-50fps faster than factory ammo, with only around 47,000psi.
It’s my go-to powder.
I have 8208XBR and AR Comp as well, but I don’t load them due to availability. Those powders will produce bug holes with my barrels, but I don’t chase bug holes at 100yds. I shoot steel from 400-1200yds on a regular basis and just want impacts on 2 MOA targets most of the time.
My go-to load of 31.2gr CFE223 under a 123gr Hornady A-MAX or ELD-M was centerline with center-punch at 600yds cold-turkey 10 days ago, in 4-16mph winds.
I’ve shot that load at 1000yds from the Lilja lightweight Wasp profile barrel as fast as I could re-index the reticle on my wind hold, and it grouped 8” vertical, 4” horizontal for 6rds. That carbine weighs 7lbs 12oz with optics, empty.
That load cuts a ragged hole for 10rd groups at 100yds from Lilja barrels, maybe with 1 outlier that opens the group to 1.2” or 1.5”. 3rd bug holes, 5rd .75” to .94”. That’s plenty for me to go off to the races at 1000yds and get repeated, consistent hits, even on 3/4 or 1/2 IPSCs, conditions-dependent.
TAC, H335, LVR, and most of your .308/.223 powders work great in Grendel, so powder availability is very forgiving.
Might want to add the 130gr Berger OTM Tactical to the list. Have 200 to play with between Grendel, x47 and CM. Lots of positive feedback from the field on same.
Has anybody tried the new Hornady 100 gr ELD-VT bullet in 6.5 Gren? I wish Hornady would list the bullet lengths and provide more info on the velocity limits of bullet expansion on their website (for all their product lines). Seems like this 100 gr bullet with great BC would work well in the Grendel, so long as there is enough headspace for it. 6.5 G isn't designed for the longer heavy for caliber bullets like 22 ARC and 6 ARC though, so I have some doubts.
I have shot the factory 100gr ELD-VT ammo through the 17.6” Lilja barrel Grendel out to 1000yds, yes.
First shot was 700yds, easy connect on a large gong, went to 800yds, skipped 900yds and just went to the 1000yd gong to see where it was hitting. Adjusted elevation to impact the waterline so I could see how many mils for centered-up at 1k.
It was surprisingly-loud on-target. Winds were minimal at maybe 4-5mph if I recall. I was probably 12/12 at 1000yds with it on the gong. My 8yr-old boy was maybe 4/5, having never shot out to 1k before.
Someone did a pull-down of it and took all those measurements. ES was really tight from his measurements with the Garmin.
Seems like the intent of this load is for slaying yotes out to 500yds, since .223 Rem runs out of gas after 250-300yds generally. It also makes a fun target load for easy connecting on steel at distance.
Man you are a wealth of info. Thank you for all the responses. I guess I need to check the factory loads more often instead of assuming I'm going to have to reload. I would agree on the coyotes. Hogs may be too tough for this varmint round. Might frag too soon. Could likely take a deer in a pinch, but may not be an ethical or quick kill. What are your thoughts on using this bullet on game beyond coyotes?
DoubleNaughtSpy just posted video of shooting hogs with it and I think it’s as you guessed, frags a bit early and hogs ran off a bit. First-round hogs were DRT, but runners were hard to put down. Distances seemed pretty far though to try to hit runners.
For first-round on a deer broadside or quartering away, I would expect fast kills due to velocity. It will wreck the vitals pretty bad based on what is being seen from recovered fragments. It’s performing as it was designed to do with that hollow cavity up front and the ELD tip initiating rapid expansion. Nothing but separated jackets and one core were recovered so far, so it comes apart.
90gr TNTs have been performing very well on hogs and deer over the years though from Grendel.
For deer and hogs, one of the bullets to beat is the Cavity Back 105gr for a premium option. For cup and core, 120gr NBT, 123gr A-MAX, 123gr SST, and 123gr ELD-M have probably killed the most deer from 6.5 Grendel based on the game hunting surveys we did. They all exhibit controlled expansion, usually with pass-throughs or retention on the far-side hide. Barnes 100gr TTSX and 120gr TSX have also been used a lot for the premium monoliths.
