**6 Creedmoor**

[fnberzerker]

So in looking for more 105 hornady bthp's, I have discovered that NO ONE ANYWHERE has any right now. Is this one of those periods where Hornady isn't going to make any more for a while to fulfill other bullet orders? Either way, and I realize that this is going to open a can, but any tips for switching from the Hornadys to Bergers? For some reason I can find the 105 Match Hunting VLDs around ( .02 higher BC). Can't find any hybrids though.

 

[bjay]

So in looking for more 105 hornady bthp's, I have discovered that NO ONE ANYWHERE has any right now. Is this one of those periods where Hornady isn't going to make any more for a while to fulfill other bullet orders? Either way, and I realize that this is going to open a can, but any tips for switching from the Hornadys to Bergers? For some reason I can find the 105 Match Hunting VLDs around ( .02 higher BC). Can't find any hybrids though.

Bullets.com got hybrids

 

[JGorski]

Any of you guys thought about barreling one at 18in? Wonder what the velocity would be?

Id say about just over 2900fps.

 

[6mmGreed]

Sub'd

 

[map_it]

So what is the trim to length for the 6mm Creedmoore? Can I just measure a few pieces of new unfired brass and use that?

 

[bjay]

So what is the trim to length for the 6mm Creedmoore? Can I just measure a few pieces of new unfired brass and use that?

new brass comes 1.917 0nce fired give you 1.920 or more so i trimed mine 1.920

 

[ZLBubba]

Alright gents, my GAP-10 rifle likes the 105gr Hybrids over 41.3gr of H4350. It's shooting them right around .3-.5 depending on me, but I'll take the .5 MOA any day of the week. Not sure what the chrony is, but from a 23" barrel, I'm thinking around 2950-ish. I've pointed all these bullets anyway so the dope is going to be different anyway. This is probably the last chance I had to shoot it before I link up with Ed Shell in a month. I should have real life dope data all the way out to 1200 yards when I get back, so that should give me a good idea of what the fps and/or BC is. I don't really care, to tell you the truth. So long as it's accurate, consistent, and the dope is right, everything else is academic. Man this cartridge is fun, and not finicky to load for. All of my groups were sub-MOA despite my rustiness.

 

[Capt Academy]

ZLBubba, post a picture of your rifle.

 

[ZLBubba]

ZLBubba, post a picture of your rifle.

Sorry for the delay. Here she is, the rifle that's quickly becoming my go-to range and comp gun. "One gun to rule them all....:

Specs:
GAP-10 6Creed
23" Bartlein
Geissele DMR trigger
OD cerakote
Noveske switchblock
Threaded 5/8x24
S&B 5-25 MSR w/ Spuhr 30MOA mount

 

[Capt Academy]

That's a very nice rifle. I've been thinking about one of those myself. Thanks for posting!

 

[ZLBubba]

That's a very nice rifle. I've been thinking about one of those myself. Thanks for posting!

Honestly I love the rifle. My 17" 308 upper shoots lights out, and the 6 Creed gives me all the range I could ask for. I think there are many people out there that make a great bolt action rifle, but when it comes to building accurate gas guns, I haven't seen many that outshoot GAP-10s.

 

[platapus]

Tag

 

[JGorski]

Honestly I love the rifle. My 17" 308 upper shoots lights out, and the 6 Creed gives me all the range I could ask for. I think there are many people out there that make a great bolt action rifle, but when it comes to building accurate gas guns, I haven't seen many that outshoot GAP-10s.

How good does it shoot?

 

[ZLBubba]

How good does it shoot?

Check out post #107.

 

[JGorski]

Alright gents, my GAP-10 rifle likes the 105gr Hybrids over 41.3gr of H4350. It's shooting them right around .3-.5 depending on me, but I'll take the .5 MOA any day of the week. Not sure what the chrony is, but from a 23" barrel, I'm thinking around 2950-ish. I've pointed all these bullets anyway so the dope is going to be different anyway. This is probably the last chance I had to shoot it before I link up with Ed Shell in a month. I should have real life dope data all the way out to 1200 yards when I get back, so that should give me a good idea of what the fps and/or BC is. I don't really care, to tell you the truth. So long as it's accurate, consistent, and the dope is right, everything else is academic. Man this cartridge is fun, and not finicky to load for. All of my groups were sub-MOA despite my rustiness.

From my deciphering you should be getting around 3010, give or take. Yeah, my 6 Creed hasn't shot a group over 1.9" out to 300yds yet, can't wait til Chad gets done with my 2nd one.

 

[ZLBubba]

From my deciphering you should be getting around 3010, give or take. Yeah, my 6 Creed hasn't shot a group over 1.9" out to 300yds yet, can't wait til Chad gets done with my 2nd one.

I hope you're right about that speed; I'll be stoked for anything above 3k. I really need to stretch the rifle's legs out because with pointed bullets, their BC is better than advertised, you just don't know how much. That means you need to confirm real world dope, which is something I much prefer to ballistics calculators anyway. So long as that load holds .5 MOA or better for 5-shots, I'll be putting a lot of rounds downrange this shooting season to get back some of the edge I've lost over the past year. Man, work has just sucked up all my free time but I hope to carve more out this year.

 

[JGorski]

I hope you're right about that speed; I'll be stoked for anything above 3k. I really need to stretch the rifle's legs out because with pointed bullets, their BC is better than advertised, you just don't know how much. That means you need to confirm real world dope, which is something I much prefer to ballistics calculators anyway. So long as that load holds .5 MOA or better for 5-shots, I'll be putting a lot of rounds downrange this shooting season to get back some of the edge I've lost over the past year. Man, work has just sucked up all my free time but I hope to carve more out this year.

Pretty sure it will be, figure my 28" bbl gets 3150ish with 41.6grs H4350, take off 23fps for each inch of barrel and 8fps for each .10grain of powder.

 

[Irokcrawl]

On my Accurate Ordnance 6mm creedmoor build I'm using 42.6gn of h4350 with Cci 250 primers and 105gn Hybrids pushed to 3152fps avg with a 2fps Sd and 6-8fps Ed. Awesome shooting gun that shot the below group at 100 during load development (my go to load now) with a magnetospeed on the barrel. I just posted a post with video about the hornady primer pockets though. The hornady brass brings the suck big time!


Pic of the gun..

Pic of the group

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[Capt Academy]

Nice rifle and group! Where is the video on the brass posted?

 

[JGorski]

On my Accurate Ordnance 6mm creedmoor build I'm using 42.6gn of h4350 with Cci 250 primers and 105gn Hybrids pushed to 3152fps avg with a 2fps Sd and 6-8fps Ed. Awesome shooting gun that shot the below group at 100 during load development (my go to load now) with a magnetospeed on the barrel. I just posted a post with video about the hornady primer pockets though. The hornady brass brings the suck big time!


Pic of the gun..

Pic of the group

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Um, have you tried a different primer to see if they might be tighter? Nice rifle, btw.

 

[Irokcrawl]

Yeah I tried some federal gold medal, CCI benchrest and some cci 200's, same deal.. The primers are all measuring right its just the brass. I guess it cant take the load. I push my federal brass for my 308 hard, like 45.4gn of Varget, cci 250 and a 185gn juggernaut seated to 2.8750 pushed to 2720fps out of a 20" barrel and still get at a min 15 reloads before anything actually starts to concern me and thats usually a slightly loose primer pocket.

 

[kritos666]

I'm using RE17 with the 105 Hornady's.

I'm loading 41.5gr, but I'm using a gas gun, so you may be able to go higher in your bolt gun.

You may not want to keep running that, Jay is running a bolt gun and I belive his chamber is slightly different. I got a burnt bolt face for my efforts with RE17... just too hot for gas gun. GAP10-24"
my 27 cents

 

[kritos666]

I'll be working up loads this week and will report back my findings. I'm using the same basic components everyone else is:

- Hornady 6Creed brass
- Berger 105gr Hybrid (pointed)
- CCI BR2 primers
- H4350 powder

This will be shot out of a 23" GAP-10, and I'm starting .6gr below George's honey load (41gr) and then working up until I see pressure signs. Since I can't push it out to 300 yards and do an OCW, I think the round robin method will be better at 100 yards. I just think there's too little variance between loads at 100 yards to really see the benefit of OCW. Hopefully I'll find a nice, generous node that's well below pressure signs. I plan for this to be my all-purpose comp gun so this rig will see a LOT of rounds.

For what its worth.. if you are running a GAP with a very light trigger, you might find the CCI primers are too hard. After a lot of back and forth, Federal gold match were the only ones that would work consistantly for me in my GAP10 with the Geissele SSA-E trigger

 

[ZLBubba]

I'll give it a try with other primers, just to see. I'm not enormously confident but anything's worth a shot.

 

[JGorski]

Yeah I tried some federal gold medal, CCI benchrest and some cci 200's, same deal.. The primers are all measuring right its just the brass. I guess it cant take the load. I push my federal brass for my 308 hard, like 45.4gn of Varget, cci 250 and a 185gn juggernaut seated to 2.8750 pushed to 2720fps out of a 20" barrel and still get at a min 15 reloads before anything actually starts to concern me and thats usually a slightly loose primer pocket.

I quit playing with varget in my 308, just wont shoot and 44grs under 168AMAXs was a bit too hot, so Im using CFE & 2000MR, no pressure very good accuracy, 2720 from a 185 in a 20" tube is HOT! No wonder your primer pockets are big, I did tell you Im getting 3144 avg with 41.6grs H4350 in my 6 Creed and still get accuracy like this. Course, it is a Bartlein, and 105 HPBTs Hornadys

 

[lakecitybrass]

I just got my 6 Creedmoor bolt gun together - 8 twist 27" Benchmark - and I have a little H4350, but it is hard to find locally. What is the best alternative? I have AA4350 and IMR 4350, but they don't meter as well as Hodgdon. I have 8208 and Power Pro 2000mr to try as well. I had surgery to my lower spine about three weeks ago so I have plenty of time to load before I get to the range to shoot.
Thanks

 

[JGorski]

I just got my 6 Creedmoor bolt gun together - 8 twist 27" Benchmark - and I have a little H4350, but it is hard to find locally. What is the best alternative? I have AA4350 and IMR 4350, but they don't meter as well as Hodgdon. I have 8208 and Power Pro 2000mr to try as well. I had surgery to my lower spine about three weeks ago so I have plenty of time to load before I get to the range to shoot.
Thanks

Either one of those other 4350s will work, what I'd do is measure out just short of the charge and trickle the rest in. I'm going to try Hodgdons Hybrid 100V but with 115 DTACs, it might work with 105s, too.

 

[Irokcrawl]

I have some 100v I could try but I'm not messing with this barrel and I have over 24lbs of h4350. I'm going to have another barrel made and throated deaper based upon George from GAPs recommendations to help on the brass issue and stick it on another action I have and let me daughter shoot that one.

On my 308 the primer pockets are still perfect even with that hot load. It's in a rem 5r so it's throated deep which is the only reason I'm able to put that much powder in the case with a 185gn projectile. When I pour the powder it is a very slow pour to keep compression down to a min. It's amazing at how much space actually opens up when you pour the load very slowly instead of just dumping it. The 6mm creedmoore case held 53.5gn of h4350 when I checked earlier using the slow pour method. It only held 52.1 with a dumped pour if I recall correctly.

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[lakecitybrass]

Either one of those other 4350s will work, what I'd do is measure out just short of the charge and trickle the rest in. I'm going to try Hodgdons Hybrid 100V but with 115 DTACs, it might work with 105s, too.

So...in your experience, what is the difference (ballpark) between Hodgdon 4350 and IMR or AA 4350 charge weights?
I used a Richard's Microfit stock and a Whidden v-block.

 

[JGorski]

So...in your experience, what is the difference (ballpark) between Hodgdon 4350 and IMR or AA 4350 charge weights?
I used a Richard's Microfit stock and a Whidden v-block.

Im just going by what other have posted when they couldn't find any H4350 and they tried IMR4350, Ive got some IMR in the basement and will call Hodgdon before I loaded any. Will be breaking in my next 6 Creed with it instead of using H4350.

 

[JGorski]

I have some 100v I could try but I'm not messing with this barrel and I have over 24lbs of h4350. I'm going to have another barrel made and throated deaper based upon George from GAPs recommendations to help on the brass issue and stick it on another action I have and let me daughter shoot that one.

On my 308 the primer pockets are still perfect even with that hot load. It's in a rem 5r so it's throated deep which is the only reason I'm able to put that much powder in the case with a 185gn projectile. When I pour the powder it is a very slow pour to keep compression down to a min. It's amazing at how much space actually opens up when you pour the load very slowly instead of just dumping it. The 6mm creedmoore case held 53.5gn of h4350 when I checked earlier using the slow pour method. It only held 52.1 with a dumped pour if I recall correctly.

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The reamer used in my 6 Creed is much like what GAP uses, 183 throat, 275 neck, heard they're GAP-10 has a 277 neck.

 

[Capt Academy]

I was able to develop a load for the 6 Creed using H-4831sc, which was not bad at all, just a hair slower, but still shot very good. However, my go to powder is still H-4350.

Great groups @ 300 Gorski!

 

[remaction]

Tag for review later

 

[Engine 22]

Has anyone tried using lighter (varmint) bullets in the 6Creedmoor? I'm thinking of trying some 87gr V-Max would reek havoc on prairie dogs this spring.
1:8 barrel.

What ya say?

 

[Irokcrawl]

I'm sure they would work great. My setup is only for matches so ill stick with the 105s. If I was somewhere that I could go prairie dog hunting I would definitely try the lighter stuff out. The 6mm creedmoore seems to be very forgiving on loads from what I've tried. It shot the 107s great also but I have thousands of the 105gn Hybrids so ill stick with those for now.

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[ZLBubba]

So I got out to the range today and despite 15-20mph winds, got some great trigger time with the GAP-10 6mm Creed. My load is 41.3gr of H4350 with the 105gr Hybrids that have been pointed, and seated at mag length. The rifle functioned perfectly and shot really well. I didn't handle the wind (or proper shooting form) as well as I should have. However, almost all the 5-shot groups were under .75 MOA. Multiple 3-shot groups were in the .1s and .2s, but then I'd throw a flyer. My best five shot group of the day was right at .4MOA. Considering the wind, the cold, and this rusty Indian, I was pretty happy with the bow and the arrows.

 

[Irokcrawl]

I can't wait to get some cash ready for a gap10 in 6mm Creedmoor. What is mag length coal? I don't have any of my AR10 based mags around to verify.

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[ZLBubba]

I'm seating right at 2.800" and the bullets are striking right where I point them. With this load, the 6mm Creed upper is shooting as well as the 308 upper, which is an absolute hammer. However, I've got so much experience loading for 308 that I knew going in about what loads would work. The GAP-10 is pretty much my range/comp gun going forward. I love it.

 

[JGorski]

Has anyone tried using lighter (varmint) bullets in the 6Creedmoor? I'm thinking of trying some 87gr V-Max would reek havoc on prairie dogs this spring.
1:8 barrel.

What ya say?

I shot two 87HPBTs up the day I got those 2 nice groups(foulers) but that was the extent of that, fwiw, they were pretty close to one another at 200yds, they were lighter loads, can't for the life of me recall what charge I used or what powder, in fact, I used RE17, just remembered. If you use 4350 with that bullets I'd start off around 43grs and work up. or, a slightly faster powder may work as well or even a slightly slower for that matter.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Brass back in stock, received 115,000 pieces today.?


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[Irokcrawl]

The new brass I received seems to be better. Much happier now especially with such a great shooting round.

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[BGE541]

Only 115,000.... come on

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

I want to seem the same thing but with "CASE 6.5 MM SAUM UNPRIMED" on the sticker. ?

 

[shoot4fun]

After some load development at 100 yards I got out to the 500 yard range with my 6 Creedmoor. Load is 42 gr H4350, FGMM primer, Hornady brass (from GAP), and 105 Hybrid. Barrel is a 26" Bartlien with 1 in 7.5 twist. This thing was shooting under .2" for 3 shots at 100 so I was thinking it was going to be good. My first shot I went with 2.8 mils (no chart or chrono work). It was a bit high to my surprise. I dropped back to 2.3 mils and let shot two fly. Dead center hit. Then I went to the range's 10" plate and shot a five shot group that came in at just over 2". Decided to see what it had to give at 300. Backed down to 1 mil and it was a bit high. Came down .2 and nailed a five shot 1 1/4" at 300 dead center. I ran numbers in JBM and the 2.3 equates to 3100 FPS. The chart showed 1 mil for 300 but my 300 yard plate is at a pretty good down hill angle so I am sure that made the .2 mil difference. Holy cow!!! This 6CM is a real shooter!! Now the question is can it really get to 1000 yards with 7.1 mil elevation? We will soon see. That is less drop than my 300WM shooting the 230 OTM at 2850.

 

[bjay]

After some load development at 100 yards I got out to the 500 yard range with my 6 Creedmoor. Load is 42 gr H4350, FGMM primer, Hornady brass (from GAP), and 105 Hybrid. Barrel is a 26" Bartlien with 1 in 7.5 twist. This thing was shooting under .2" for 3 shots at 100 so I was thinking it was going to be good. My first shot I went with 2.8 mils (no chart or chrono work). It was a bit high to my surprise. I dropped back to 2.3 mils and let shot two fly. Dead center hit. Then I went to the range's 10" plate and shot a five shot group that came in at just over 2". Decided to see what it had to give at 300. Backed down to 1 mil and it was a bit high. Came down .2 and nailed a five shot 1 1/4" at 300 dead center. I ran numbers in JBM and the 2.3 equates to 3100 FPS. The chart showed 1 mil for 300 but my 300 yard plate is at a pretty good down hill angle so I am sure that made the .2 mil difference. Holy cow!!! This 6CM is a real shooter!! Now the question is can it really get to 1000 yards with 7.1 mil elevation? We will soon see. That is less drop than my 300WM shooting the 230 OTM at 2850.

How much jump off the land? Oal and fps

 

[Irokcrawl]

After some load development at 100 yards I got out to the 500 yard range with my 6 Creedmoor. Load is 42 gr H4350, FGMM primer, Hornady brass (from GAP), and 105 Hybrid. Barrel is a 26" Bartlien with 1 in 7.5 twist. This thing was shooting under .2" for 3 shots at 100 so I was thinking it was going to be good. My first shot I went with 2.8 mils (no chart or chrono work). It was a bit high to my surprise. I dropped back to 2.3 mils and let shot two fly. Dead center hit. Then I went to the range's 10" plate and shot a five shot group that came in at just over 2". Decided to see what it had to give at 300. Backed down to 1 mil and it was a bit high. Came down .2 and nailed a five shot 1 1/4" at 300 dead center. I ran numbers in JBM and the 2.3 equates to 3100 FPS. The chart showed 1 mil for 300 but my 300 yard plate is at a pretty good down hill angle so I am sure that made the .2 mil difference. Holy cow!!! This 6CM is a real shooter!! Now the question is can it really get to 1000 yards with 7.1 mil elevation? We will soon see. That is less drop than my 300WM shooting the 230 OTM at 2850.

I'm at a verified 6.4mils to 1k with 100 yard zero with 105gn Hybrids at 3152fps average.

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[Irokcrawl]

0.8 at 300, 3.8 at 725..


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[Irokcrawl]

I get it but I haven't bothered with it. It doesn't seem to mess with the shots since it shoots in the 1s with no problems if I do my side.

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[shoot4fun]

How much jump off the land? Oal and fps

I haven't done chrono testing. I am running OAL of 2.78". Don't know how far off that is. It was just a SWAG starting point and I hit the sweet spot there.

 

[shoot4fun]

Is anyone else getting a real nice ring from the seating die marking the 105 hybrid target bergers? I don't like it and want to see if anyone has had the same and found a fix.

I read the other day that a die manufacturer said to just polish out the edge of the stem with emery cloth and that will go away. It didn't affect my accuracy. The thing that did bother me was run out. The Hornady seater that came with my dies is horrible! I have been seating with a Redding 243 Win comp die until I figure out the Hornady one.