6mm Dasher

[J McGriddle]

You were right. My headspace grew .007-.008 compared to virgin. I am waiting on bushings at the moment, but I will focus on 50 pieces to see what happens before I fireform the rest.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[morning would]

You were right. My headspace grew .007-.008 compared to virgin. I am waiting on bushings at the moment, but I will focus on 50 pieces to see what happens before I fireform the rest.

Thanks for the advice.

Glad you got it figured out. I had the same issues until I realized how much my brass was growing. I am shooting Alpha and it grew .009-ish. So I used shit components to fireform 300 pieces and now all is right with the world. I am simply loving this caliber. I take it, a 6.5x47 Lapua and a little tack driver 223 to the range and when I get done, I feel like some kind of dead eye.

 

[TylerN]

That range looks familiar. Immokalee?

Correct.

 

[SavageSR308]

Glad you got it figured out. I had the same issues until I realized how much my brass was growing. I am shooting Alpha and it grew .009-ish. So I used shit components to fireform 300 pieces and now all is right with the world. I am simply loving this caliber. I take it, a 6.5x47 Lapua and a little tack driver 223 to the range and when I get done, I feel like some kind of dead eye.

It really sucks having jam and fireform Peterson and Alpha cases. It takes away the whole premise of them making Dasher cases, so we didn't have to form Lapua cases. Which at the end of the day, Still has the quality and capacity advantage (in my opinion) over the other brands, so you might as well just stick with Lapua (If you can find it). End rant. Glad i was able to assist from my own personal headaches.

 

[asplund01]

New to 6 Dasher, what does is the cost to reload it with brass and how many reloads do you typically get out of the brass? I understand the bullet choice and when you buy etc will have an impact but assuming you buy powder/bullets/cases etc today.

 

[M_R_Woodard]

You should be able to get 10+ firings out of the brass as long as you're not hot rodding it. Bump the shoulder .002 and anneal every now and then and it will last a long time. It's a very fun and accurate cartridge.

 

[giumau1]

Can speak just for Alpha or Peterson, reinforcing what @M_R_Woodard just said. If you dont hotrod the beast, ( 2800-2850 fps with 105gr bullets) they will last... My first batch of both brands is at 7th firing and still both look like new. Annealing every firing just to be sure. Full sizing, 2 thou shoulder bump, PRS shooting. F-class, different story.

 

[SavageSR308]

New to 6 Dasher, what does is the cost to reload it with brass and how many reloads do you typically get out of the brass? I understand the bullet choice and when you buy etc will have an impact but assuming you buy powder/bullets/cases etc today.

Choosing to run a dasher should come with no cost factor involved in your decision. In my opinion, this is a performance cartridge, and factors such as your preference of components and performance requirements should be a deciding factor. Example: I wanted to switch from 6.5CM to a 6mm for PRS. I prefer Lapua brass, so that narrows my selection down some. I did not like the reported shorter barrel life with the 6 creed. I heard of stories about the 6x47 being a little finicky. Lapua does not make brass for the GT( and the conversion process from 6.5x47 was too much for me). This led me to the 6BR or one of its cousins. I shoot with several guys that run Dashers so I knew that if I needed assistance along the way, i had it..... and that's where I ended up. glad I did. it's a fantastic cartridge for what i do with it. which is running a Berger 105 hybrid at 2920ish FPS

If you don't like the idea of fire-forming or hydro-forming brass, Alpha and Peterson make brass for it, but it seems that some of us have found that there are some caveats to using those. But i also know several people running Alpha brass with nothing but good things to say.

Be sure of what reamer design you are going to use VS the brass you intend to use. Alpha legacy reamers are different from Lapua reamers and the components do not play well together.

As the others have stated above, brass life is completely dependent on how you treat it. Don't over-size it. Anneal often. if you load over pressure chasing velocity, you will lose primer pockets sooner, as with any other cartridge.

In today's time, you're going to pay ~ 1.30 / $1.50 per piece of brass. Bullets average .50 cents. most powders are 50$ a LB now. Primers are averaging .10 cents a piece. All of this can be said for almost any other cartridge in this same performance realm. 6creed, 6x47 Lapua, 6GT, 6BR

 

[Teflon16]

Has anyone had any luck with Berger 108’s? Was trying to buy enough 105 hybrids for a full barrel but they’re impossible to find. However 108’s I can find in quantities high enough for a full barrel. I’ve heard the 109 LRHT can be finicky with dasher

 

[Shoots 700's]

I have a friend that shoots 108 bergers,they shoot well. I shoot 109’s and love them in dasher

 

[45-90]

Yes, I use 108 Berger with Varget and RL 15, the RL 15 has a slight edge in velocity and very slight edge in accuracy, almost hard to tell. But they are very close in my rifle. I prefer the 108 Bergers for accuracy and have purchased 3000. The 6 mm ARC AR likes them also. One of the most accurate 6mm bullets out there. Try a box or two I doubt that you'll be disappointed. The 3 barrrels are all 7.5 twist Bartlein and Proof.

 

[45-90]

6 mm Dasher,... my standsrd load is Alpha brass 108 Berger in the 2975- 2980 fps Varget or 3020- 3030 fps RL 15. IMR 4064 is also interesting.
But I also hot rod the 6 Dasher with 107s at 3130 fps, 110 SMK at 3085 fps, 115 DTAC to 3020 fps in 28" Bartlein 5 R 7.5 twist M24 barrel, with good accuracy. Just change powder.
Varmints on the menu? How about 58 gr Vmax at 4100 fps and accurate, or 70 gr Nosler BT 3700 fps.

 

[Belisarius]

I have a friend that shoots 108 bergers,they shoot well. I shoot 109’s and love them in dasher

where do you get 109's?

 

[45-90]

where do you get 109's?

The 109s are scarce...but the 108 gr 6mm "elete hunter" is a hybrid design and almost the same BC as the 109 hybrid, and it's available at several places as I was looking for 308 208 gr for 308 Win...but I have not used the "elete hunter" version, of the Berger line. But would consider trying them when out of target bullets.

 

[Terp]

Has anyone had any luck with Berger 108’s?

Yup. This guy (not me, this other guy who shoots disgustingly small groups with 108s):

 

[Shoots 700's]

Now that the storm's over, i'm fixing to go sit on the porch and enjoy a smooth Perdomo 20th Anniversary cigar, and some Oyster City Tate's Helles beers and some good tunes...

Also, just an FYI, if yall smoke cigars, and don't have one of the Area 419 CNC aluminum cigar holder ashtrays, you're missing out. The way it's designed, the ashes don't stick to it, and it just wipes out 100% clean with a dry cloth, and does not retain ANY smell. Best ashtray I've ever used.

where do you get 109's?

i bought when available

 

[45-90]

6 Dasher different bullets, different powders, the one high in one group is most likely the shooter.
Shot off my belly in the prone 13 different 5 shot groups with different bullets and 2 powders RL 15 and Varget. The Average of the 13, 5 shot groups was .313" at 100 yds. 105 Berger, 107 SMK, 108 Berger, 108 eldm, 110 SMK, 115 DTAC, 115 Nosler with 4985, 112 Barns. All shot reasonably small groups with the exception of the 112 gr Barns, need an adjustment with a .4" something. But the Berger 108s most always shoot 5 into the .2" in the prone. The 6 Dasher is accurate with most any match bullet...and a .5" group is somewhat disappointing with a 6 mm Dasher, with most any bulllet, 58 gr Vmax at 4100 fps or 110 gr SMK at 3085 fps. So a good shooter with a 6 Dasher, will be much more accurate than me, and able to set records at 600 to 1000 yds. But the average plinker can shoot as well with the 6 Dasher and a premium barrel...it's more accurate than I require, for my needs...but it's nice to get it with a variety of bullets and powders. IMR 4064 was also good...

 

[mr_fullmetal]

Yes, I use 108 Berger

For the Berger 108’s are you guys using the “elite hunter” or the the “target bt”

 

[45-90]

For the Berger 108’s are you guys using the “elite hunter” or the the “target bt”

I'm using the Target BT...the Elite Hunter has a bit higher BC along the hybrid design, and a newer line, I believe they have a thinner jacket for expansion while hunting..not needed in a target bullet. Bergers with thin jackets have blown up on me years ago...but none recently.
And I have not tried a box of Elite Hunters. The name "Elite" makes me not want to buy it...just because if that. The name equates with "egotistical entitled a$$hole" bullet... to me.
I tried the Berger VLD Hunting 168 gr in 308. It took 8 308 rifles later to get it to shoot and I purchased 500 of them 5 yrs ago, and the new light AR 10 308 11.25 twist likes them...finally.
But the new 169 and 177 SMK are grouping better.

 

[J McGriddle]

I was finally able to take the Dasher back out. I took some TAC to play with as well. My barrel has over 100 rounds on it and has seemingly sped up and leveled off.

Peterson 1x fired
CCI 450
TAC 31.0gr 2830fps @ 67°
107 SMK 2.797" BTO

Peterson 1x fired
CCI 450
Staball Match 31.0gr 2750fps @ 67°
107 SMK 2.797" BTO

I got some Alpha Dasher brass. Case volume of virgin Peterson was .7gr of alcohol more than virgin Alpha. I have some 1 pounders of AR Comp, IMR 4064, IMR 4166, and IMR 4895 to try.

I shot this this group while zeroing with the SBM load.

 

[frost1235]

27.5 in - 1:7.5 twist
Heavy varmint
Varget
CCI 450
105 match burners
Alpha brass
2813 at 31 grs

First fps drop:
1324 rounds
53fps drop 2813 to 2760
Increased grs from 31 to 31.2 to be at 2790.

Second fps drop:
1730 rounds

I had some issues with this barrel.

For the first 500 rounds, I could not load greater that 31.5 grains of varget without ejector swipe or a slightly heavier bolt lift. But once the barrel sped up, and I dialed in the reloads, the barrel shot amazing up until rounds 1800 rounds. Went to sight-in at my regional finale, and couldn't keep a group smaller than 1.2 mils at 100 yards.

I was hoping to see around 2000 rounds from a barrel, but at 1500 rounds, my throat looked like my 6.5 creedmoor at 3000 rounds. But I will say, I have never encountered a barrel that had the same POI with different powders AND different powder charge weights. Was pretty awesome.

 

[King_beardsly]

27.5 in - 1:7.5 twist
Heavy varmint
Varget
CCI 450
105 match burners
Alpha brass
2813 at 31 grs

First fps drop:
1324 rounds
53fps drop 2813 to 2760
Increased grs from 31 to 31.2 to be at 2790.

Second fps drop:
1730 rounds

I had some issues with this barrel.

For the first 500 rounds, I could not load greater that 31.5 grains of varget without ejector swipe or a slightly heavier bolt lift. But once the barrel sped up, and I dialed in the reloads, the barrel shot amazing up until rounds 1800 rounds. Went to sight-in at my regional finale, and couldn't keep a group smaller than 1.2 mils at 100 yards.

I was hoping to see around 2000 rounds from a barrel, but at 1500 rounds, my throat looked like my 6.5 creedmoor at 3000 rounds. But I will say, I have never encountered a barrel that had the same POI with different powders AND different powder charge weights. Was pretty awesome.

I looked at my throat after 500 and it looks like my 6cheatmoor after 1000, but it still hammers

 

[MilSpecOkie]

I looked at my throat after 500 and it looks like my 6cheatmoor after 1000, but it still hammers

Really, your Dasher barrel is worse than your Creedmoor? What powders are you using in each of them?

 

[King_beardsly]

Really, your Dasher barrel is worse than your Creedmoor? What powders are you using in each of them?

I was running H4350 in the creed at like 2850-2900 and Varget in the dasher at 2950. So chances are I just pushed the dasher too hard to chase speed and did some damage but I’ve had weird stuff happening with that barrel since the beginning of its life.

 

[frost1235]

I looked at my throat after 500 and it looks like my 6cheatmoor after 1000, but it still hammers

I've done a 5 round powder test for shits and giggles at 2032 rounds on this barrel with pretty bad results. Groups at 1.5 inches on the smallest side, 4 inches at 100 yards on the larger side. Same thing with seating depth. The only other thing I didn't try was to shoot with other components.

The best SD's / ES's were 25 / 80 on the low end. Again, this barrel shot an SD of 6 / 26 in a 70 shot group size.

Barrel is dead, but at 1500 rounds, it did hold up for another 300 rounds. It'll be kept to break in brass potentially.

I took pictures and videos after everytime I shot, and recorded and kept all my targets. It was interesting to see.

 

[TylerN]

I pulled my last barrel at 2,116. I don't recall measuring velocity or issues with velocity but it was throwing flyers. I think I was seeing grouping issues a little below 2k and I got a few hundred more rounds by pushing out seating depth significantly. That barrel had a semi-hard life, it's always hot and I shoot strings of 10 - 20 rounds. And for half its life I was pushing it a bit to hard with 112gr MB's at 2920. Not great barrel life but I was happy with 2,116 rounds.

 

[King_beardsly]

I pulled my last barrel at 2,116. I don't recall measuring velocity or issues with velocity but it was throwing flyers. I think I was seeing grouping issues a little below 2k and I got a few hundred more rounds by pushing out seating depth significantly. That barrel had a semi-hard life, it's always hot and I shoot strings of 10 - 20 rounds. And for half its life I was pushing it a bit too hard with 112gr MB's at 2920. Not great barrel life but I was happy with 2,116 rounds.

112’s at 2920 is definitely spicy, but PRS puts a beating on barrels in general.

I’m starting to bore scope my barrel when I get them and then randomly throughout their life because I was shocked at the amount of fire cracking I saw in the barrel.

 

[louu]

Is there an affordable decent way to trim 6 dasher? I've spent almost 8 grand in the last few weeks on this rifle and I'm getting a little tired of spending. I don't want to spend another 500 bucks on a trimmer.

Does that Lyman xpress trim work with this short caliber?

 

[BoilerUP]

6mm Dasher Brass Case Trimmer | Little Crow Gunworks

The WFT was developed as a precision tool built to last a lifetime (or more) and uses a source of power most people already own – a cordless or electric drill. Once adjusted to the user’s preference, it’s simply a matter of chucking it up in a drill and feeding cases in by hand. The WFT products…

www.littlecrowgunworks.com

 

[Terp]

Is there an affordable decent way to trim 6 dasher? I've spent almost 8 grand in the last few weeks on this rifle and I'm getting a little tired of spending. I don't want to spend another 500 bucks on a trimmer.

Does that Lyman xpress trim work with this short caliber?

Could always chuck up a Giraud Triway trimmer (used to be ~$125 last time I checked, though it's been awhile).

 

[TylerN]

Also just a thought, but do you need to trim now or can you put it off until it's necessary? I used to trim every reload but have since found that to be excessive and now rarely trim only when needed. With my current lot of Dasher brass I think the brass will wear out before it needs to be trimmed so I don't think I'll trim again until I start a new lot of brass.

 

[louu]

Could always chuck up a Giraud Triway trimmer (used to be ~$125 last time I checked, though it's been awhile).

View attachment 8295321

They were the first people I called because I have the 223 and 308 but unfortunately they said they don't make it for 6 dasher because the case is to short

Also just a thought, but do you need to trim now or can you put it off until it's necessary? I used to trim every reload but have since found that to be excessive and now rarely trim only when needed. With my current lot of Dasher brass I think the brass will wear out before it needs to be trimmed so I don't think I'll trim again until I start a new lot of brass.

Yeah definitely, I have 300 new alpha brass. I just want to be prepared for when the time comes. I think a trimmer is the last thing I need for this new caliber. I got the 105 berger hybrids to start with.

 

[FNG1001]

Is there an affordable decent way to trim 6 dasher? I've spent almost 8 grand in the last few weeks on this rifle and I'm getting a little tired of spending. I don't want to spend another 500 bucks on a trimmer.

Does that Lyman xpress trim work with this short caliber?

Buy Trim Pro® -2 Manual Case Trimmer Kit and More | RCBS

Shopping for the Trim Pro® -2 Manual Case Trimmer Kit - Learn more about the latest Case Prep Kits and other hunting or shooting gear at RCBS.

www.rcbs.com

 

[Terp]

They were the first people I called because I have the 223 and 308 but unfortunately they said they don't make it for 6 dasher because the case is to short

Yeah definitely, I have 300 new alpha brass. I just want to be prepared for when the time comes. I think a trimmer is the last thing I need for this new caliber. I got the 105 berger hybrids to start with.

Good call.

That's strange, given they have a cutterhead for 6mm/6Dasher...falsely assumed you could adjust it to still index off the shoulder and the two-tenths difference in length between .223 and Dasher wouldn't matter. Good to know, though!

 

[702lineman]

ive went through several dasher barrels and probably 800 rounds our brass, and I trimmed them one time because i was going to a big 2 day match and had time to get silly with reloads. i wouldnt waste your money right now on it. You can get several firings out of your brass before you need to trim it

 

[Rangemaster]

Good call.

That's strange, given they have a cutterhead for 6mm/6Dasher...falsely assumed you could adjust it to still index off the shoulder and the two-tenths difference in length between .223 and Dasher wouldn't matter. Good to know, though!

I also contacted them for cutter for dasher and bra, they said they do not make them. So what version are you using?

 

[louu]

Giraud says they don't make the tri way version because the back of the case won't stick out of the tool enough to get a grip on it. They have a setup for the fancy machine that costs $600 for dasher.

Thanks guys, I'll keep an eye on the length and like you said I probably won't need to trim. I just like to be prepared because I end up doing most things last minute

 

[Shoots 700's]

I’ve never trimmed 6 dasher brass

 

[Terp]

I also contacted them for cutter for dasher and bra, they said they do not make them. So what version are you using?

I retired my Giraud and moved to a Henderson, but I meant they make cutterheads for Dasher for the regular Giraud, so didn't think it would be an issue for the Triway because the case isn't THAT much shorter than a .223...seems they could even shave down the 'shroud' 3 thou and make it work. Strange.

 

[45-90]

I have never trimmed my 6 Dasher brass either.
But usually us an old Wilson case trimmer with a modified cutter for an electric drill motor...cheap does about 600 cases per hr. Or collet closer and a Bridgeport mill is 1 second per trimming even if ya take off a 1/2" of brass. The best way for 50BMG case trimming.

 

[Greenmoustache]

Got to take out the new Garmin last weekend and absolutely love it. Mounted on an Area 419 Arca Arm and it didn’t miss a shot. I love that I can shoot at the 100yd berm and then turn and shoot at 600 and don’t need to worry about alignment like with the LabRadar. Here’s the data from a 30 round string:

Lapua fireformed brass
Proof 26” SS prefit
Sierra 107 SMK
32gr Varget
.020 jump
~60 degrees Fahrenheit @ 1,000 ft elv.

For fun, here was the best string from that morning when it was about 15 degrees cooler:

 

[FC-Dasher]

Concerning your pressure signs, I recently fire formed 200 peices of Peterson Dasher and had the same issue at the beginning. I was getting ejector marks with 29.5 gr of Varget and a 105bthp @ 2750 ish FPS…

I just caught this, I’ve been using Lapua brass for years and never had a problem. I fireform it with Bullseye and a tuff of polyester pillow ticking. I bought some Peterson, had to turn the necks since my throat is .2704 no turn Lapua Blue Box. I found the same issues, ejector marks with moderate loads and they needed two firings to expand to my chamber.
I’ll use them, but never again. Too much work. Lapua just fits the bill.

 

[SavageSR308]

I just caught this, I’ve been using Lapua brass for years and never had a problem. I fireform it with Bullseye and a tuff of polyester pillow ticking. I bought some Peterson, had to turn the necks since my throat is .2704 no turn Lapua Blue Box. I found the same issues, ejector marks with moderate loads and they needed two firings to expand to my chamber.
I’ll use them, but never again. Too much work. Lapua just fits the bill.

Yeah, my virgin Peterson is Around .011 short in my chamber. I either have to jam the bullets hard or hydro form the shoulders forward. Which defeats the purpose of factory brass.

Then I still can’t quite run them much above2820 without marks on the case heads.

 

[FC-Dasher]

I haven’t shot what I’d consider full loads with the Peterson. My Lapua loads with a 108 Berger and either Norma 203B or N140 give me 2950 fps.
One local club has fun 100 meter matches each week, I’ve shot the Peterson with 68 Berger’s or 70 SMK which works fine (still with ejector marks). So, maybe they’ll be delegated to those matches. Trigger time is trigger time, same setup as shooting 1000 yards.

 

[NELAshooter]

Blue Collar Reloading has Berger 109 long range in stock. Limit 5 per person with 34 left

 

[TylerN]

I've been running Alpha brass and have had no issues. However the tinkerer in me decided to fireform some Lapua brass to try out.

I went with the false shoulder technique and results were great and the process is easy. The fireforming rounds shoot great so I'd happily go to the range and shoot them just as I would formed brass.

0.257" false shoulder. Ran a mandrel through the brass. Backed out my already setup sizing die on my Dillon 550 1 turn. With the Armanov tool head this is repeatable due to the floating die, unscrewed the small pin-screw, turned the die out one turn and screwed it back. This allows the false shoulder to crush fit in the chamber easily. Then the next station ran a 6mm mandrel. After that annealed them and loaded. No jam on bullets, loaded 10k off the lands just same as I would on formed brass.

28.0gr of Varget, CCI 450, 112gr Match Burner. Brass formed up well, from memory about the same as new Alpha brass (and better than Peterson which comes with an extremely round shoulder body junction.)

 

[parkerg31]

New to 6 Dasher, what does is the cost to reload it with brass and how many reloads do you typically get out of the brass? I understand the bullet choice and when you buy etc will have an impact but assuming you buy powder/bullets/cases etc today.

I have about 400 pcs of Lapua brass that has 9-10 firings on it and has never been annealed. I'm sure they are reaching the end of their life but they still shoot a 4.5 SD over 24 shots at the muzzle with a 9.4 SD at 500 yds. Attached is my price per round calc with todays prices.

 

[MilSpecOkie]

What is the water weight difference between Lapua and Alpha Dasher brass?

 

[giumau1]

Good question. I don’t have the full answer, however here is my bit, as I use mostly alpha ocd and some Peterson‘s.
My alpha were 39.5 ( plain water no alcohol) out of the box and 40.5 after few firings when they reached full chamber size.
Peterson one full grain less 38.5 new, 39.5 fully ff.
I don’t fireform Lapua sorry. Alpha legacy reamer here .154 fb.

 

[FC-Dasher]

I've been running Alpha brass and have had no issues. However the tinkerer in me decided to fireform some Lapua brass to try out

I went with the false shoulder technique and results were great and the process is easy…

0.257" false shoulder. Ran a mandrel through the brass. Backed out my already setup sizing die on my Dillon 550 1 turn. With the Armanov tool head this is repeatable due to the floating die…

I mostly run Lapua, .257 mandrel too, then slowly size the neck back to .243 to give me a false shoulder tight fit. I add Bullseye powder to the case and hold it in place with some polyester pillow fluff. Put the rifle in my cleaning rest at the range and run sets of ten shots followed by a patch to clean out the fouling. I’ll do 200 cases at a time. I get a case that is probably 85% formed. A standard Dasher load was next, usually at a 300 yd match.

I did buy 200 pieces of Peterson, which had to be neck turned to fit my chamber. The Peterson has 1.56 grams less internal capacity then my Lapua based on alcohol weight.

I have Lapua cases that have 20+ firings on them. I AMP anneal after each firing and only bump my shoulders .001. My loads are legitimate, but not crazy.