7 saum

[wyliecoyote]

Unfortunately, I only shot the cold soaked ammo at 100 yards and was mostly interested in getting velocity data off of it. I really should have shot those rounds out at distance to see if the velocity loss/variation opened up the groups significantly. Here's the picture of the cold soaked ammo at 100 yards (the three blue marked shots in the middle were not cold soaked and were just to get the scope on paper). They grouped pretty much like everything else at ambient air temp. This was all part of a 21-shot Hornady 4 DOF calibration where I established the zero-angle and zero for the rifle with 21 shots fired in 3-shot increments with barrel cooling time in between. Comparing 4 DOF to AB and getting more temperature/velocity data points will be a project of mine over the next year. So far, 4 DOF has been dead-nuts with this load (162 gr ELD-X) whereas AB has always given elevation data on the high side at 800-1000 yds. I haven't done the proper DSF calibration in AB though.

 

[larryh128]

Any experience with N560 would be appreciated. Currently the only powder I can get.

Looking at using 162gr ELD-X and 180gr Bergers loaded at 2.9” mag length.

I looked up my load last night, 60.2 grs N560 x 166 gr ATIP x CCI 250. At 60.6 I got slight bolt lift and shot worse.

 

[WillEver]

I contacted Criterion about ordering a 7 SAUM barrel, and they sent me a copy of the reamer print. If I'm reading it correctly, it looks like the freebore is .090. Am I correct that this wouldn't be long enough to run 180 and 190gr hybrids?

ETA: I'm running a SA, and I'm fine single feeding

 

[Jakeweb09]

I contacted Criterion about ordering a 7 SAUM barrel, and they sent me a copy of the reamer print. If I'm reading it correctly, it looks like the freebore is .090. Am I correct that this wouldn't be long enough to run 180 and 190gr hybrids?

ETA: I'm running a SA, and I'm fine single feeding

I used to run 180 vlds in a short action with .090 freebore. Works but not ideal.

 

[Widowmaker300]

Anyone had luck with nosler accubond long range 175 grain?
Just got rid of all my Berger elite hunters and looking to try something else. Thanks.

 

[JR1200W3]

Anyone had luck with nosler accubond long range 175 grain?
Just got rid of all my Berger elite hunters and looking to try something else. Thanks.

I bought two boxes from Sportsman's Warehouse online last week. $100 a box

 

[nrspence]

Should I go 8 twist or 9, wanting to shoot 162eldms to 180 hybrids out of a 20 or 22 inch barrel on a medium action. Im in Utah at 4500ft +. Thanks.

 

[JR1200W3]

Should I go 8 twist or 9, wanting to shoot 162eldms to 180 hybrids out of a 20 or 22 inch barrel on a medium action. Im Utah at 4500ft +. Thanks.

Standard lead core bullets will be fine with a 1:9 twist. Especially at higher altitude. But if you ever decide you want to shoot heavier copper bullets you will be limited. Some people will just go 1:8" off the bat. The issue with a 1:8" is high velocities with thin jacketed bullets like the 180 ELDM(and probably the 190 ATIPs). You want to keep them below 290K RPMs.

60(12÷twist rate)MV = RPMs.

With most 7 SAUM/ RM loads you should be fine with a 1:8". You just have to keep the lead cores bullets under 3200fps. 162 ABLRs out of a 26" 7 WSM are 3150fps so I think you'd be preysafe with a 1:8".

 

[nrspence]

Standard lead core bullets will be fine with a 1:9 twist. Especially at higher altitude. But if you ever decide you want to shoot heavier copper bullets you will be limited. Some people will just go 1:8" off the bat. The issue with a 1:8" is high velocities with thin jacketed bullets like the 180 ELDM(and probably the 190 ATIPs). You want to keep them below 290K RPMs.

60(12÷twist rate)MV = RPMs.

With most 7 SAUM/ RM loads you should be fine with a 1:8". You just have to keep the lead cores bullets under 3200fps. 162 ABLRs out of a 26" 7 WSM are 3150fps so I think you'd be preysafe with a 1:8".

Great info and explanation, I think I’ll go 8 twist just in case. I do not expect to be pushing anything 160 grain plus over 3 grand with a 20 inch barrel.

 

[Top O' Texas]

I hoping to find good saum loads for coal of 2.830" and less with 168's and lighter. I haven't read thru all 15 pages yet? I don't hunt, just build and shoot for fun! I will test on pigs, yotes, paper and steel out to 2k if possible?

 

[wyliecoyote]

I hoping to find good saum loads for coal of 2.830" and less with 168's and lighter. I haven't read thru all 15 pages yet? I don't hunt, just build and shoot for fun! I will test on pigs, yotes, paper and steel out to 2k if possible?

On the lighter end, I’ve found the 162gr ELD-X to be a magnificent bullet loaded with the following recipe:

Bullet: Hornady 162 gr ELD-X
Brass: Norma 7 SAUM
Powder: 58.8 grains VihtaVouri N560
Primer: Federal Gold Medal Match 215M large rifle magnum primer

Hornady also makes a ELD-M match bullet in the exact same weight (162gr) so you can have both a hunting and comp load for your rifle with very little adjustment.

 

[Top O' Texas]

On the lighter end, I’ve found the 162gr ELD-X to be a magnificent bullet loaded with the following recipe:

Bullet: Hornady 162 gr ELD-X
Brass: Norma 7 SAUM
Powder: 58.8 grains VihtaVouri N560
Primer: Federal Gold Medal Match 215M large rifle magnum primer

Hornady also makes a ELD-M match bullet in the exact same weight (162gr) so you can have both a hunting and comp load for your rifle with very little adjustment.

All I could find is ADG brass for the 7saum (decent price), but haven't check case volume yet. 1 website states an average of 73.1 H2O.

 

[nrspence]

All I could find is ADG brass for the 7saum (decent price), but haven't check case volume yet. 1 website states an average of 73.1 H2O.

Good on ya finding ADG brass in stock. That brass is great, can’t go wrong with it.

 

[Scotch_egg]

On the lighter end, I’ve found the 162gr ELD-X to be a magnificent bullet loaded with the following recipe:

Bullet: Hornady 162 gr ELD-X
Brass: Norma 7 SAUM
Powder: 58.8 grains VihtaVouri N560
Primer: Federal Gold Medal Match 215M large rifle magnum primer

Hornady also makes a ELD-M match bullet in the exact same weight (162gr) so you can have both a hunting and comp load for your rifle with very little adjustment.

What length barrel are you running and what speeds are you getting?

I can get N560 this side of the pond and was going to run it under 180gr Bergers. Although the 162gr ELD-X are readily available so this would be good for hunting.

 

[wyliecoyote]

What length barrel are you running and what speeds are you getting?

I can get N560 this side of the pond and was going to run it under 180gr Bergers. Although the 162gr ELD-X are readily available so this would be good for hunting.

I’m running a 26 inch, 1:9 twist barrel with those 162gr ELD-Xs, N560, and getting around 2950 fps at 70 deg F.

The Finns must be doing great producing and distributing their powders if they’ve as available overseas as they are in the US. That rifle (and me) are about to be put to the test in two weeks out on an Auodad hunt. I certainly expect to shoot well past 500 in some stiff winds.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I would think N560 would be great with the 162. I’m using it in a shorty 6.5 PRC with the 140 elite hunter and it’s got some pop!

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Might be great with the 150 ELDX and/or the 168 VLD Hunting also

 

[st1650]

I have a spare ARC Archmedes SA with a mag bolt face and a 9tw 7mm blank. Could either do a 7SAUM or a 7-6.5 PRC. The PRC case has a tiny bit less case capacity but superior Lapua brass. Planning to use H4831sc or H1000 and shoot 145 LRX, 162 Eld-M and 166 ATIP loaded at max coal on the Hawkins hunter magazine 2.98”
Should I do the PRC case or the SAUM ?

 

[Top O' Texas]

560 is a great choice for 6.5prc and 7saum with nearly every bullet weight. 565 is a 2nd choice and 555 could work in place of 565 if capacity is an issue?

 

[st1650]

560 is a great choice for 6.5prc and 7saum with nearly every bullet weight. 565 is a 2nd choice and 555 could work in place of 565 if capacity is an issue?

Is 560 more temp stable than h1000/h4381 ?

 

[Top O' Texas]

Is 560 more temp stable than h1000/h4381 ?

I have know idea! Going off other people's claims about which 1 is and isn't as some claim yes and others say no? I rarely shoot when temp is below 50*. I shoot paper, steel, pigs and yotes.

 

[larryh128]

I have a spare ARC Archmedes SA with a mag bolt face and a 9tw 7mm blank. Could either do a 7SAUM or a 7-6.5 PRC. The PRC case has a tiny bit less case capacity but superior Lapua brass. Planning to use H4831sc or H1000 and shoot 145 LRX, 162 Eld-M and 166 ATIP loaded at max coal on the Hawkins hunter magazine 2.98”
Should I do the PRC case or the SAUM ?

SAUM

 

[Part Timer]

Might be great with the 150 ELDX and/or the 168 VLD Hunting also

Not sure if this is the right forum for discussion on the matter, but I have some feedback on the 168 Hunting VLDs.

I just recently managed to take a whitetail using that bullet out of my SAUM at 2955fps. Made a good shot at 116m right behind the shoulder, but no blood on the ground, no blood trail, nothing. Not even blood on the entry or exit. Frankly, the deer didn’t even look like it was shot until we skinned it, and very minimal expansion and damage. No bullet recovery, either.

Keep in mind, this is only my own anecdotal evidence, but I’m not sold on it for hunting purposes and will very likely be pulling them from my loads.

Anyone else have experience with this?

 

[st1650]

Not sure if this is the right forum for discussion on the matter, but I have some feedback on the 168 Hunting VLDs.

I just recently managed to take a whitetail using that bullet out of my SAUM at 2955fps. Made a good shot at 116m right behind the shoulder, but no blood on the ground, no blood trail, nothing. Not even blood on the entry or exit. Frankly, the deer didn’t even look like it was shot until we skinned it, and very minimal expansion and damage. No bullet recovery, either.

Keep in mind, this is only my own anecdotal evidence, but I’m not sold on it for hunting purposes and will very likely be pulling them from my loads.

Anyone else have experience with this?

That's wild, when I shot my little buck last year with the 162 ELD-M at 2825 fps, 100 yards, they absolutely blew the shoulder and rib, huge exit hole, blood everywhere. DRT
If anything, it made me want to switch to the 145 LRX for short range shots so that the bullet would keep together a little better at short range

 

[larryh128]

Not sure if this is the right forum for discussion on the matter, but I have some feedback on the 168 Hunting VLDs.

I just recently managed to take a whitetail using that bullet out of my SAUM at 2955fps. Made a good shot at 116m right behind the shoulder, but no blood on the ground, no blood trail, nothing. Not even blood on the entry or exit. Frankly, the deer didn’t even look like it was shot until we skinned it, and very minimal expansion and damage. No bullet recovery, either.

Keep in mind, this is only my own anecdotal evidence, but I’m not sold on it for hunting purposes and will very likely be pulling them from my loads.

Anyone else have experience with this?

Berger VLDs are absolutely very accurate bullets, with that said, I will never use them in a hunting situation again. They either grenade or are FMJs, some will disagree but this isn't an opinion of a couple critters. The only bullet I use anymore on game are Barnes LRX. It does exactly the same thing every time, opens on impact, drives completely thru, and leaves a massive blood trail if it moves. Also very accurate.

 

[Part Timer]

I have some Barnes in the stash, they’ll be loaded up next once the Bergers are pulled.

 

[larryh128]

I have some Barnes in the stash, they’ll be loaded up next once the Bergers are pulled.

I'm in a pretty unique situation where we need to do a lot of culling, last year 50 animals from one piece of property so I see a lot of terminal performance. One of the young guys was enthralled with the accuracy of the VLD's out of his rifle and of course didn't heed any advice. After he made a near perfect shot and had the deer run about 80 yds before it dropped with 0 blood even where it laid then he understood. That time it was an open field but in timber it would have been demanding.

 

[Simonsza1]

I spoke about this in another thread but I have a very good friend who’s a very reputable guide in Alaska. He won’t even let his customers hunt with bergers anymore if he can help it. Coming from this guy that says ALOT!

 

[Part Timer]

I'm in a pretty unique situation where we need to do a lot of culling, last year 50 animals from one piece of property so I see a lot of terminal performance. One of the young guys was enthralled with the accuracy of the VLD's out of his rifle and of course didn't heed any advice. After he made a near perfect shot and had the deer run about 80 yds before it dropped with 0 blood even where it laid then he understood. That time it was an open field but in timber it would have been demanding.

This is essentially exactly what happened to me. Ran from the field into the woods about 150m and piled up behind a log. Had it been thicker timber, I’m not sure that I’d even have recovered it.

 

[larryh128]

This is essentially exactly what happened to me. Ran from the field into the woods about 150m and piled up behind a log. Had it been thicker timber, I’m not sure that I’d even have recovered it.

What I can say that could help someone recover an animal, this year I played with a thermal unit quite a bit and was totally amazed that I could see bedded deer thru about 50-70 yds of aspen thicket. There is NO way I could possibly see a deer there even with the help of binos. Thermal units could be a huge help in recovery. I played with it on deer that basically I knew where they were down and it showed them every time. Not inexpensive but?

 

[Part Timer]

What I can say that could help someone recover an animal, this year I played with a thermal unit quite a bit and was totally amazed that I could see bedded deer thru about 50-70 yds of aspen thicket. There is NO way I could possibly see a deer there even with the help of binos. Thermal units could be a huge help in recovery. I played with it on deer that basically I knew where they were down and it showed them every time. Not inexpensive but?

Might be on the list for next year.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

That’s interesting, I’ve shot 6 mule deer and antelope with 130 VLDs out of a 6.5 SAUM and none of them went more than 20 yards. Oh and one bull elk with a 175 elite hunter didn’t go 10 yards.

I guess it’s different strokes for different folks.

 

[JR1200W3]

That’s interesting, I’ve shot 6 mule deer and antelope with 130 VLDs out of a 6.5 SAUM and none of them went more than 20 yards. Oh and one bull elk with a 175 elite hunter didn’t go 10 yards.

I guess it’s different strokes for different folks.

I built a 6.5 SAUM in 2015 based on seeing all your GAP Extreme Hunters. I took it out for it's first hunt with 130 VLDs and grenaded a whitetail at 70yds, lol. Blew up a ton of meat. I ended up selling that gun and trying a hunting bullet on the next build.

 

[st1650]

Just got my smith to finish my new 7 SAUM.
ARC Archmedes SA
Krieger 9tw 30in heavy varmint
Foundation Centurion
Insite arms heathen 5 port brake
Saami length chamber for short action
ADG Brass
162 ELD-M
H4831SC
Loaded 10 rounds each at
59.5
60.0
60.5
61.0
Coal was 2.945”
Most accurate was 3/8 moa for both 5 groups at 60.5. I probably won’t bother with anymore load dev with the 162. The other loads were hovering about 1/2 - 3/4 moa but that could have been me.
Absolutely no pressure signs at 61.0
Velocity was 3010 FPS ES of 12. New unfired unsized brass.
Very soft shooting with the big brake.

 

[Mtblackdog]

Berger VLDs are absolutely very accurate bullets, with that said, I will never use them in a hunting situation again. They either grenade or are FMJs, some will disagree but this isn't an opinion of a couple critters. The only bullet I use anymore on game are Barnes 168 LRX. It does exactly the same thing every time, opens on impact, drives completely thru, and leaves a massive blood trail if it moves. Also very accurate.

This is probably a rookie question. But I had my reamer built around a 180 grain bullet specifically in the thought of hunting with 180 VLDs. Its a Bartlein carbon 22" barrel on a 1/8.5 twist. And my lowest elevation here in Montana would be 4000. But more than likely 6-8000 Do you see any problems shooting the Barnes 168 LRXs out of it. I need to be able to kill with it out to 600 at least. Last two elk with my 6.5 Prc were 575 and 640. Im not real well versed on gun design but I can shoot.

 

[nrspence]

This is probably a rookie question. But I had my reamer built around a 180 grain bullet specifically in the thought of hunting with 180 VLDs. Its a Bartlein carbon 22" barrel on a 1/8.5 twist. And my lowest elevation here in Montana would be 4000. But more than likely 6-8000 Do you see any problems shooting the Barnes 168 LRXs out of it. I need to be able to kill with it out to 600 at least. Last two elk with my 6.5 Prc were 575 and 640. Im not real well versed on gun design but I can shoot.

No problem at all in an 8.5 twist. Berger has the twist calculator that’s a pretty handy tool figuring out bullet stability.

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.

bergerbullets.com

 

[Mtblackdog]

No problem at all in an 8.5 twist. Berger has the twist calculator that’s a pretty handy tool figuring out bullet stability.

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.

bergerbullets.com

How are they 600-800 yards

 

[nrspence]

I wouldn’t know I am very anti copper solids. If I were you I would shoot 180 hybrids or 162 eldms.

 

[LRDD]

Doesn't seem to matter what powder I use with these. 180's . They shoot at 2950fps.

 

[levi8599]

Who’s running the heavies in a 20” and what velocities?

Currently have a 25” and wanting to switch to a cf 20”. I run the 180 hybrids at 2984 fps. I’m thinking if I can still get around 2750-2800 that would still be fantastic.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

You should be able to. I’m getting 2,800 on a 22” Bartlein 8.5 twist with 59.0 R23 and the Berger 175 elite hunter. Went to 2,870 at 60.0 but didn’t group well.

 

[levi8599]

Awesome. I run 63gr of n560 and no pressure signs at all @2984

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I may have to try N560 in my 7 SAUM. Using it with great success in my 20” 6.5 PRC.

 

[levi8599]

Same. I run 57.5 with 135 Berger classic hunters @ 3187. 22” barrel. N560 in both
Top pic is 6.5prc
Bottom pic is 7saum

 

[mustang-cars]

Looking for some first hand experience anyone may have with this kind of setup:
XM+ Action
3.210 max COAL
7SAUM .220FB
22" Barrel
175 Bergers
Looking for 2,900fps
What powders/loads have worked best for you. Have lots of H1000 and H4350

 

[larryh128]

H1000 of the 2 you have is going to work better with 175 gr. No experience with it though.

 

[st1650]

Looking for some first hand experience anyone may have with this kind of setup:
XM+ Action
3.210 max COAL
7SAUM .220FB
22" Barrel
175 Bergers
Looking for 2,900fps
What powders/loads have worked best for you. Have lots of H1000 and H4350

H4831sc would be the best for the 175
But if I was running an XM action I’d probably go with the 180 ELD-M

 

[LRDD]

Looking for some first hand experience anyone may have with this kind of setup:
XM+ Action
3.210 max COAL
7SAUM .220FB
22" Barrel
175 Bergers
Looking for 2,900fps
What powders/loads have worked best for you. Have lots of H1000 and H4350

That H-1000 will serve you well.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

R23 also works real well with the 175

 

[Simonsza1]

N560