I just can't understand the price difference between Berger and Hornady. Just can't figure it out.
Initial loads....Any and all feedback, insight, and opinions are welcomed. I don't claim to be an expert at anything so I'm always open to learn.
All loads are ADG Brass, CCI 250's, set .01" back.
Current round count after this testing is 74rnds.
H1000 under the Hornady 180's starting at 66.3gr, .3gr increments ending at 67.5gr.
Retumbo under Berger 190's starting at 66.8gr, .3gr increments ending at 68gr. Pressure signs at 68gr?
Going by the point of impact shift, I'm thinking 67gr H1000 under the 180's and 67.5gr Retumbo under the 190's for the next 125-150rnds letting the barrel settle in and stabilize. May play with seating depth a bit and see if they will tighten up.
Retumbo 190's 66.8-68gr front to back
H1000 180's 66.3-67.5gr front to back
Top left are the 180's, Top right are the 190's, Bottom left are sight in and Hornady box 180's, Bottom right are Fed 175's
Targets 1 and 2 of the H1000 180's was a whole ass thing. I couldn't see that the first shot hit dead center like it did and thought I saw it hit somewhere else and adjusted to that. Kinda have to disregard those two.
Hornady Box 180's baseline
Fed 175's
Notable groups....
All loads are ADG Brass, CCI 250's, set .01" back.
Current round count after this testing is 74rnds.
H1000 under the Hornady 180's starting at 66.3gr, .3gr increments ending at 67.5gr.
Retumbo under Berger 190's starting at 66.8gr, .3gr increments ending at 68gr. Pressure signs at 68gr?
Going by the point of impact shift, I'm thinking 67gr H1000 under the 180's and 67.5gr Retumbo under the 190's for the next 125-150rnds letting the barrel settle in and stabilize. May play with seating depth a bit and see if they will tighten up.
Retumbo 190's 66.8-68gr front to back
H1000 180's 66.3-67.5gr front to back
Top left are the 180's, Top right are the 190's, Bottom left are sight in and Hornady box 180's, Bottom right are Fed 175's
Targets 1 and 2 of the H1000 180's was a whole ass thing. I couldn't see that the first shot hit dead center like it did and thought I saw it hit somewhere else and adjusted to that. Kinda have to disregard those two.
Hornady Box 180's baseline
Fed 175's
Notable groups....
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And this is only going to get worse...
Guess I'll go up and down .1gr. and just tell my OCD to go sit down.
Guess I'll go up and down .1gr. and just tell my OCD to go sit down.
I’m not a pro long range shooter, but if you’re sorting all your bullets out like that, I hope you can actually shoot the difference. How many guys can shoot the difference on a 1 gr variance? Probably not many
I'm sure I probably can't either but it surely doesn't hurt.
In my mind, it's an "every little bit helps" sort of thing. Little thing here, little thing there, can often add up to something significant.
Who can shoot the difference in .1 or .2gr of powder? We still weigh our charges as accurately as we can right?
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Absolutely nothing wrong with getting in the weeds and chasing the elusive 1 hole group. I think it is preferrable to manufacturing crystal methamphetamine.
People certainly group projectiles by weight. Charge weights. Even length of the bullet. Moving the seating depth. Chase the lands, don't chase the lands.
Fire-forming for your own wildcat.
Neck turning.
I guarantee if there was a way to spin and analyze bullet for distribution of mass and therefore, center of gravity, that would be the next step.
It's all good.
People certainly group projectiles by weight. Charge weights. Even length of the bullet. Moving the seating depth. Chase the lands, don't chase the lands.
Fire-forming for your own wildcat.
Neck turning.
I guarantee if there was a way to spin and analyze bullet for distribution of mass and therefore, center of gravity, that would be the next step.
It's all good.
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There really is something oddly satisfying about the way bullets fit into this case.
Then I misunderstood your post. But please, continue with the animosity. Bring in some more angst and stomach acid.
Well, this is a thread specifically called 7PRC, and he went through more than enough grief when asking about it in another thread, wherein the 7 RM guys all did their level best to discredit his choice of PRC. So there’s that.
Why would you ask about 7 Rm in a 7 PRC thread?
I used the same tape for the 180's as I did for the 190's. That particular picture was of the 180's.
No....I had weighed the 190's first. Then just used the same tape for the 180's.
It's just how I do it and for me it's a non-issue. I'm not used to posting pictures of it so didn't even think about it causing confusion till after the fact. Once I realized it may cause confusion, I changed how I marked the tape.
This is the order the pictures were posted.
I wanna get T-shirts made that say,Well, this is a thread specifically called 7PRC, and he went through more than enough grief when asking about it in another thread, wherein the 7 RM guys all did their level best to discredit his choice of PRC. So there’s that.
Why would you ask about 7 Rm in a 7 PRC thread?
"Show me where the PRC touched you"
Maybe a doctor looking guy pointing to a whiteboard with a Rem Mag cartridge on it talking to a boomer fudd looking guy.
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I was not trying to redirect 7 RM at all. It's just that the factory weights in 7 PRC are 160, 175, and 180.Well, this is a thread specifically called 7PRC, and he went through more than enough grief when asking about it in another thread, wherein the 7 RM guys all did their level best to discredit his choice of PRC. So there’s that.
Why would you ask about 7 Rm in a 7 PRC thread?
But you do find 162 projectiles in 7 RM ELD-X.
Rifle Ammunition - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
Hand inspected ammunition to ensure consistency and quality throughout the process.
So, when he said 162 gr. And then later said ELD-X, my thought was that he took a projectile one would normally find in a 7 RM and put in a 7 PRC.
And that was all it meant. I love 7 PRC. I have one. I kind of like that I waited to get this one because it will do what I want, pretty much out of the box, all things being equal.
I was not looking for grief and I was not giving him grief about the 7 RM. It was a goddamned simple fucking technical question that evidently cannot be handled here without goddammed fucking horse shit attitude.
As someone has caught his fair share of bs for going with and trying to discuss/defend that choice in other threads...I can understand being a little sensitive about it.I was not trying to redirect 7 RM at all. It's just that the factory weights in 7 PRC are 160, 175, and 180.
But you do find 162 projectiles in 7 RM ELD-X.
Rifle Ammunition - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
Hand inspected ammunition to ensure consistency and quality throughout the process.www.hornady.com
So, when he said 162 gr. And then later said ELD-X, my thought was that he took a projectile one would normally find in a 7 RM and put in a 7 PRC.
And that was all it meant. I love 7 PRC. I have one. I kind of like that I waited to get this one because it will do what I want, pretty much out of the box, all things being equal.
I was not looking for grief and I was not giving him grief about the 7 RM. It was a goddamned simple fucking technical question that evidently cannot be handled here without goddammed fucking horse shit attitude.
I can see see how it could feel like an attack and in your own home no less.
Just a simple misunderstanding
I was not trying to redirect 7 RM at all. It's just that the factory weights in 7 PRC are 160, 175, and 180.
But you do find 162 projectiles in 7 RM ELD-X.
Rifle Ammunition - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
Hand inspected ammunition to ensure consistency and quality throughout the process.
So, when he said 162 gr. And then later said ELD-X, my thought was that he took a projectile one would normally find in a 7 RM and put in a 7 PRC.
And that was all it meant. I love 7 PRC. I have one. I kind of like that I waited to get this one because it will do what I want, pretty much out of the box, all things being equal.
I was not looking for grief and I was not giving him grief about the 7 RM. It was a goddamned simple fucking technical question that evidently cannot be handled here without goddammed fucking horse shit attitude.
It's not a "simple fucking technical question" it's a really dumb fucking question... Do you not understand that .284 projectiles can be used in cartridges that are .284 caliber? You do realize that this is the reloading forum, and people don't care too much about what grain bullets a factory offering are limited too? "Normally find in a 7 RM", what a fucking rube statement. The 162 ELDX isn't only made/intended to be used in the 7 RM, I'm going to blow your mind.... it could also be used in a 280 win., a 28 Nosler, a 7mm-08, 7 SAW, etc.......
Your original post very understandably got taken out of context, but you coulda learned something instead of being a complete twat about it.
Shot my best group ever today!!!
Virgin ADG Brass, CCI 250's, H1000 under the 180's, 67.5-68.7gr in 3 thou increments, Still not seeing pressure signs to worry about. (Left)
Same as above but 67.5gr of Retumbo under the Berger 190's. Playing with seating depth, 13-24 off in 3 thou increments, shooting them round robin. It got REAL happy at 24 off. It of course needs verified and I'll need to load up another set starting at 20 off. I'm going to go ahead and start the 180's off at 20 as well.
Virgin ADG Brass, CCI 250's, H1000 under the 180's, 67.5-68.7gr in 3 thou increments, Still not seeing pressure signs to worry about. (Left)
Same as above but 67.5gr of Retumbo under the Berger 190's. Playing with seating depth, 13-24 off in 3 thou increments, shooting them round robin. It got REAL happy at 24 off. It of course needs verified and I'll need to load up another set starting at 20 off. I'm going to go ahead and start the 180's off at 20 as well.
I never said it was only used in the 7 RM.
So, call me a rube. Whatever. But is it possible to have a discussion without the acrimony?
Let's see how these do...
Left are the Hornady 180's sitting on 68.4 of H1000 and CCI 250's in ADG brass. Going to run the seating from 20 off to 31.
Right are the same as above but the Berger 190's on 67.5 of Retumbo.
These will put me at 141 rounds so I figure I'll do a velocity check just to see where I'm at out of curiosity. That's what the 5 of each on the inside are for.
Left are the Hornady 180's sitting on 68.4 of H1000 and CCI 250's in ADG brass. Going to run the seating from 20 off to 31.
Right are the same as above but the Berger 190's on 67.5 of Retumbo.
These will put me at 141 rounds so I figure I'll do a velocity check just to see where I'm at out of curiosity. That's what the 5 of each on the inside are for.
There is a new friend at out local range that bought a Christensen Arms MPR in 7prc with a carbon barrel. Has anyone got one of these carbon barrels to shoot a 1/2 moa 5 shot group?? He can get 3 sometimes 4 shots in a 1/2 moa but never 5. He has tried 165gr to 190gr and still no use. I have advised him he probably need to re-barrel with a 26-28 Bartlein, Kreiger, Rock Creek or even Schneider steel barrel. What are the Hide's thoughts??
Just my thoughts on carbon barrels. They have less metal in them to act as a heat sink. I have one on a 10/22 which shoots extremely well. I wouldn't have one on a fullbore range rifle. I can see they would be a good option for hunting where only a couple of shots are required. Sounds perfectly fine for hunting, check out competitive range shooters, they're using the heaviest metal barrels they can get away with.
What's the primary use of the rifle?
Hunting and shooting for groups are two completely different applications that require completely different tools.
Put a different way...
You can have a really good hunting rifle or a really good target rifle. You can't have both in the same rifle.
I would not buy a Christensen for more than 50% of list price. My LGS is a warranty dealer for them. Sees a lot of unhappy shooters that paid big $$ for a rifle that shoots savage sized groups. The used rack is always packed with $3-$5K carbon barrelled ones.
69 of h1000 under 180’s seated base of bullet even with body/neck junction works good out of my gun. 205 rounds down the tube and they avg 2947
22” proof carbon
Fed215
ADG (2x firings)
Pressure below:
H1000 @ 69.5 (2997 FPS)
H4831sc @ 65.5 (2982 FPS)
Staball HD @ 70.5 (2900 FPS)
3k out of 22".... That's pretty nice.
I'm running a 28" so its going to be interesting. I'm honestly a little concerned about over spinning the bullets and them popping on me. At 3100 that thing is getting spun up to 279,000 Rpm. I don't see 3100+ being out of the question from a 28".
I'm running a 28" barrel and only seeing 2910.
63.7 4831SC
ADG Brass
F215M
Obviously less powder than dankcincy. No pressure signs further up but accuracy seem to change. Stayed with 63.7.
Been pleasantly surprised. Also forgot to mention this is suppressed.
I have some 195 EOL and 183SMK en route to the house. Will be using retumbo and staball HD with the EOL’s see what I get. After that would like to test some 160cx for kicks.
Shoot what works for ya, nothing wrong with that.
How many rounds when you checked velocity? I would think you would be a bit higher than that with the 28".
Book shows 2900 out of a 24" with 64gr.
I have 300 rds through that barrel. I'm sure it will speed up some as I get more rounds through it.
Note to self... don't work on a load with storms all around and a front rolling through. 
I'm at 159rnds thru my 28". Velocity check today. Seems pretty low
CCI 250's
ADG Brass
68.4 H1000
Hornady 180's
2980 avg.
I was watching the Little Crow Gunwerks guy and he was doing chronos on the round that got me so much unwarranted heat for even mentioning. Anyway, so, Federal was slightly over the box MV of 3K fps (mono copper.)
Hornady was lower than the 3k fps on the box. So, without mentioning the round that shall be named, it seems that Hornady is having a problem with rounds living up to the published MV for rounds other than the 7 PRC.
(Notice, I did not mention the other round, trying to avoid more contention.)
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LOL
I'm aware of the whole box ammo issue.
I'm more referring to the 28" barrel being slower than I would expect.
I've seen what others are getting with similar loads from 24s and 26s. Seems to me that the 28 should be spitting them out faster than that.
