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7mm SAW
- Thread starter Temper
- Start date
I was shooting the 150 ELDX out of a 22” Ruger American Predator 7mm-08 for my hunting load.
Alpha Brass
W-760- ~47 grains
Hornady 150 ELDX-
CCI LRP
2825 fps.
Any interest I'm Remage barrels ? Switching actions to prefit barrels
Preffered barrel blanks
24" 8 twist medium palma bead blasted finish. 5/8x24 muzzle
Shooting 162gr at 2700 fps Shot 30 rounds
26" 25 saw 1:7.5 twist heavy palma fired 10 rounds same load
23" 25 saw 1:7.5 twist spiral fluted medium palma 5/8x24
Running 134gr eldm at 2860 fps Fired around 20 rounds.
Preffered barrel blanks
24" 8 twist medium palma bead blasted finish. 5/8x24 muzzle
Shooting 162gr at 2700 fps Shot 30 rounds
26" 25 saw 1:7.5 twist heavy palma fired 10 rounds same load
23" 25 saw 1:7.5 twist spiral fluted medium palma 5/8x24
Running 134gr eldm at 2860 fps Fired around 20 rounds.
First shots on my Solus/CarbonSix 20" 7 SAW (Type 1) build this afternoon... I went Type 1 so with Berger 175's it would still fit in the MDT mags, and have very little jump, seating them 0.006" off the lands at 2.200" base to ogive, and the fit right inside the mag and feed with no issues.
Barrel needed serious break-in, and groups were so unimpressive that I didn't even walk down to take pictures or measure them in Ballistic-X. We're talking like 1.5 MOA bad... But, it was as brand new barrel, with zero break-in, brand new brass, random-ass load data (guess), etc... I was basically just trying to get the scope zero'd, a little break-in on the barrel to settle it in, and find my max load. Accomplished. SD's started dropping into single digits around shot 16-20, and kept dropping into the next group of 5 (shots 20-25). I only load up 25 at a time (5 of each charge) during load development.
Also, with virgin Alpha brass, I noticed that everything above 47gr was a compressed load. Hopefully the once-fired will expand enough to give me that extra room needed so it won't be such a pain in the ass to get 47-48gr of StaBall 6.5 in there. Measured a brand new piece compared to a 1x fired piece from today, and the fired piece the length grew by 0.008", the width at the shoulder/wall junction grew 0.006", and the base above the groove grew 0.002".
Barrel needed serious break-in, and groups were so unimpressive that I didn't even walk down to take pictures or measure them in Ballistic-X. We're talking like 1.5 MOA bad... But, it was as brand new barrel, with zero break-in, brand new brass, random-ass load data (guess), etc... I was basically just trying to get the scope zero'd, a little break-in on the barrel to settle it in, and find my max load. Accomplished. SD's started dropping into single digits around shot 16-20, and kept dropping into the next group of 5 (shots 20-25). I only load up 25 at a time (5 of each charge) during load development.
Also, with virgin Alpha brass, I noticed that everything above 47gr was a compressed load. Hopefully the once-fired will expand enough to give me that extra room needed so it won't be such a pain in the ass to get 47-48gr of StaBall 6.5 in there. Measured a brand new piece compared to a 1x fired piece from today, and the fired piece the length grew by 0.008", the width at the shoulder/wall junction grew 0.006", and the base above the groove grew 0.002".
Just got my bear of the season.
Neck shot, 160 yards.
145 LRX brand new Alpha brass, Staball,
Exited straight back, DRT, zero meat damage. As clean as it gets.
First experience with the LRX, very impressed in this caliber.
Perfect balance of speed, terminal velocity, recoil and they fit in the flush Hawkins hunter mag at 2.875” with my MPA ultralite chassis.
Neck shot, 160 yards.
145 LRX brand new Alpha brass, Staball,
Exited straight back, DRT, zero meat damage. As clean as it gets.
First experience with the LRX, very impressed in this caliber.
Perfect balance of speed, terminal velocity, recoil and they fit in the flush Hawkins hunter mag at 2.875” with my MPA ultralite chassis.
Still not happy with the groups, but it is printing some better ones... Had 2 wild ones out of the gate, but it was also a freshly scrubbed and cold barrel, and once it settled back in, it did much better than before. Had one .683 MOA (.715") group, and one just under MOA (.995")... I've got 50 more pieces of brass to fireform, hopefully my damn Redding dies will be in from WOT soon. I've been using my Redding Comp Seater for my 7mm-08 Rem to seat bullets, and it's working well so far, but if this barrel doesn't start settling soon, I'm going to be calling CarbonSix back and getting a replacement. I've had factory rifles with burnt-out tubes shoot similar groups (1-1.5 MOA)... I might try the last 50 (2 rounds of 25) with Varget and see what I get. I know velocity will suffer tremendously, but it might end up being more stable... We'll see.
Keep in mind this entire target is only 8" x 8", so it makes the groups look extremely huge, but the target itself is very small.
Keep in mind this entire target is only 8" x 8", so it makes the groups look extremely huge, but the target itself is very small.
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I swapped to h4350 yesterday staball kept producing inconsistent groups for me. 46.5 grains of h4350 and a 180 eldm out of an 18” barrel suppressed is going 2593 sd of 3.7 over 10 shots. First 5 rounds with that load was in the picture. Staball with the same 180eldm at 46 grains gave me a 1.5” group. But was 1/2” with 162eldm idk that powder has never been consistent for me enough to trust it
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Let me know carbon six handles that. They have a 6.5 prc barrel from me that had pressure issues. Been there since the 6th of this month.
They said “really soon” when I talked to someone there last week.
I’m rollin with the hornady dies as well. I think the necks are a little too tight with them but I mandrel them anyways.
Took the saw out yesterday to test the 46.5 gr h 4350 load with a 180
3@475 with a 10mph wind about 2.5”
180 is pushing 2600fps out of the 18” barrel
Took the saw out yesterday to test the 46.5 gr h 4350 load with a 180
3@475 with a 10mph wind about 2.5”
180 is pushing 2600fps out of the 18” barrel
Attachments
Stopped at the LGS and picked up a couple pounds of H4350 to test... Their prices are higher than giraffe pussy, so I figured I'd pickup 2 lbs. and if it works better than StaBall 6.5, I'll order an 8 lb'er online for a hell of a lot less than $60 a pound. They've always been high, but shit has gotten retarded.
Anyone got a good starting point for the 175 Elites and CCI 400's in Alpha brass?
Anyone got a good starting point for the 175 Elites and CCI 400's in Alpha brass?
Not necessarily, it's just not going to maximize velocity in shorter barrels. You will hit your pressure wall much sooner than H4350 or StaBall 6.5. That's why a lot of people are starting to shy away from Varget in a lot of these newer and wildcat short action .308-sized cartridges.
Alright, an update in load development with the Solus/CarbonSix 7 SAW saga...
I decided to pickup a couple pounds of Hodgdon H4350 after reading lots of good reviews on it. My ES/SD numbers were REALLY good, and groups were more consistent, however, my speeds are about 100 fps slower than StaBall 6.5... The reason for this, is StaBall 6.5 is a spherical ball powder, and has tiny granules, and they will stack nicely in the case and compact better, and H4350 is an extruded powder, with larger kernels, and so I can't fit as much in the case. So, it seems my dilemma is this... Better ES/SD and lose 100 FPS and be no better off than my 20" 7mm-08 Rem (with the same bullets & StaBall 6.5), or run the StaBall 6.5 powder and have the slightly higher ES/SD's, but gain 100+ FPS MV...?
Groups from today... First 2 were a little wild, but it settled in. This was shots 51-75 on the barrel (so, still not even really broken in, IMO).
I decided to pickup a couple pounds of Hodgdon H4350 after reading lots of good reviews on it. My ES/SD numbers were REALLY good, and groups were more consistent, however, my speeds are about 100 fps slower than StaBall 6.5... The reason for this, is StaBall 6.5 is a spherical ball powder, and has tiny granules, and they will stack nicely in the case and compact better, and H4350 is an extruded powder, with larger kernels, and so I can't fit as much in the case. So, it seems my dilemma is this... Better ES/SD and lose 100 FPS and be no better off than my 20" 7mm-08 Rem (with the same bullets & StaBall 6.5), or run the StaBall 6.5 powder and have the slightly higher ES/SD's, but gain 100+ FPS MV...?
Groups from today... First 2 were a little wild, but it settled in. This was shots 51-75 on the barrel (so, still not even really broken in, IMO).
What speed again?Alright, an update in load development with the Solus/CarbonSix 7 SAW saga...
I decided to pickup a couple pounds of Hodgdon H4350 after reading lots of good reviews on it. My ES/SD numbers were REALLY good, and groups were more consistent, however, my speeds are about 100 fps slower than StaBall 6.5... The reason for this, is StaBall 6.5 is a spherical ball powder, and has tiny granules, and they will stack nicely in the case and compact better, and H4350 is an extruded powder, with larger kernels, and so I can't fit as much in the case. So, it seems my dilemma is this... Better ES/SD and lose 100 FPS and be no better off than my 20" 7mm-08 Rem (with the same bullets & StaBall 6.5), or run the StaBall 6.5 powder and have the slightly higher ES/SD's, but gain 100+ FPS MV...?
Groups from today... First 2 were a little wild, but it settled in. This was shots 51-75 on the barrel (so, still not even really broken in, IMO).
View attachment 8513635View attachment 8513636View attachment 8513637View attachment 8513638View attachment 8513639View attachment 8513641
Work up at your own risk...This is a HOT load. Primer pockets start loosening severely after 2-3 firings...Could just be soft Nosler brass, too.
20" Christensen Arms Ridgeline FFT factory barreled action...
Nosler 7mm-08 Rem brass
Berger 175 Elite Hunters (0.135" jump)
46.0 gr of StaBall 6.5
CCI 200's
2,635 FPS MV (average) / 2,696 Ft-Lbs KE
Well, since you never answered me...
7 SAW w/ StaBall 6.5, my best load was 47.5 grains, pushing around 2,711 FPS (17.3 ES / 6.1 SD) from a 20" 1:8 twist CarbonSix barrel. Around 0.715" (0.683 MOA) 5-shot groups. Virgin brass.
7 SAW w/ Hodgdon H4350, my best load was 45.0 grains, pushing 2,642 FPS (9.4 ES / 3.3 SD) from the same barrel as above. Around 0.642" (0.613 MOA) 5-shot groups. Also with virgin brass. But I think I can do better on groups, as I was a bit rushed, so I had to fight some bad heat mirage from the suppressor from not letting it cool down completely, and might have gotten a bit off-shift on my side-to-side with the fuzzy crosshair & target.
Yeah during the pandemic the Nosler 260 rem brass I got had really tight primer pockets. I couldn't fully seat my primers so I cleaned them up with a primer pocket uniforming tool. Shot loose in 3 firings. But no one else had brass so I kept them. Thanks for the data.Work up at your own risk...This is a HOT load. Primer pockets start loosening severely after 2-3 firings...Could just be soft Nosler brass, too.
20" Christensen Arms Ridgeline FFT factory barreled action...
Nosler 7mm-08 Rem brass
Berger 175 Elite Hunters (0.135" jump)
46.0 gr of StaBall 6.5
CCI 200's
2,635 FPS MV (average) / 2,696 Ft-Lbs KE
20” barrel… Most data numbers you see are from 24-26” barrels.
I was shooting the 150 Eldx @ 2825 from a 22” 7mm-08 regular, off the shelf Ruger American Predator.
W-760 at about 47.5 grains if I remember correctly.
Hopefully yours will gain another 100-125 fps once the barrel gets broken in.
I think you missed the part where I’m shooting 175 gr Berger Elite Hunters… 25gr heavier bullets than you… That’s a lot of extra dense weight to get moving.
No I caught that.
I believed based on the SAW claims, the 162 in a SAW would beat my experienced speed with the 7-08 regular with and the 150.
You’re only giving up 2”, ~50fps over a factory RAPredator.
I would assume the 175 Berger EH would be in the 2700-2750 range once your barrel gets broken in.
Thats all I was saying: I’m sure your rig is still going to perform very well, I would just expect a little more velocity than what you are seeing for all the effort you’ve put into it.
My hats off to your dedication to working thru this load.
Genuinely.
With StaBall 6.5 and the same bullets, my 20” 7 SAW beats my 20” 7mm-08 by almost 100 FPS…
Still pretty good ballistics with the 7-08 considering the bullet BC and barrel length. I gotta get busy loading up for my new Howa Superlite.
Alright, second set of LD with H4350 and 175 Elites... I'm starting to think I might end up sending this GD @CarbonSix barrel back and getting a refund and having a Proof 7 SAW prefit built by someone else... It's picky as fuck, and most groups are really unimpressive for as much as this damn thing cost, and as long as I had to wait to get it. Lesson learned, I'll stick with Proof Research.
it can happen to any of them. I had a Proof prefit that was junky that they happily replaced and a Bartlein that the smith jacked up. After a new chamber and crown being cut the Bartlein may be the most accurate I’ve owned to date.
I would be looking at Varget but I don’t think you’ll get the speeds you want from it.
I would be looking at Varget but I don’t think you’ll get the speeds you want from it.
Well, after all the shit I went through just trying to get this barrel, they’d better. I originally ordered a .25 Creed barrel, and McGowan couldn’t get their shit together to make a run of 7” twist blanks, and so after 9+ months of waiting, I changed my order completely to an 8” twist 7 SAW, because they already had the blank in-hand.
They didn’t even mark the cartridge, freebore, or neck on the barrel… That was the first red flag upon opening the box.
Yep. I have a 300 win mag barrel that hammers. But not marking the barrels is unprofessional.Well, after all the shit I went through just trying to get this barrel, they’d better. I originally ordered a .25 Creed barrel, and McGowan couldn’t get their shit together to make a run of 7” twist blanks, and so after 9+ months of waiting, I changed my order completely to an 8” twist 7 SAW, because they already had the blank in-hand.
They didn’t even mark the cartridge, freebore, or neck on the barrel… That was the first red flag upon opening the box.
At least put the damn cartridge on there so people know what it is.
What kind of retard tries to buy McGowan in the year of our Lord 2024 ?
The same kind of retard ^^^ who obviously doesn’t know that McGowan and CarbonSix are both owned by the same firm, so they only use McGowan blanks.
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Temporary set of dies showed up. I backordered a set of their Redding dies, but Redding and WTO can’t give me an ETA, so I ordered this cheaper set of Hornady dies from WTO to get me by to keep doing load development in the meantime, until my Redding dies show up.
Did a little more load development today on the factory 6.5CM, and the @CarbonSix 7 SAW... The 6.5CM continued to impress (for a factory rifle), while the @CarbonSix 7 SAW continued to disappoint...Profusely...Considering it's a $1,000+ barrel. I'm going to try one more set of load development tomorrow (holiday) and see if I can get it to shoot any better with H4350 again, but I'm damn-sure not holding my breath...
Alright, got one more set of 25 using H4350, all loaded to 45.0 grains with the Berger 175 Elites (best shooting, and best ES & SD load I got with H4350), and I'm going on a hunch, but going to swap the suppressor for my TBAC Magnus-S... The barrel threads on the @CarbonSix barrel are NOT 100% straight, and are slightly crooked...One of the main reasons why it's going to be going back to them most likely... However, after checking with my alignment rod, 2 of my proven truly straight 9" cans (OCL Hydro-L & TBAC Magnus) both lean just a bit too close to the side for my liking. I tried multiple cans, and multiple different mounts with the same results, so SOMETHING isn't 100% straight on the threads, whether it's the shoulder or the threads themselves. I think this might be affecting bullet flight (I.E. my groups)... When I put the shorter 7" Magnus-S on there, the alignment rod is much more centered in the bore.
So, I will be testing a group both with and without the Magnus-S this upcoming weekend. If it gets good groups without the can, then we know there's a muzzle thread problem and it's going back to CarbonSix. If it still shoots like shit with AND without the suppressor, then we know we have an internal barrel problem, and it's going to go back to CarbonSix. So, most likely, either way, this barrel is going to be getting sent back to them.
IF it shoots noticeably better with or without the suppressors, then I will try another run of StaBall 6.5 to see how it does with that, as well.
But, at this point, I'm certainly not holding my breath, or expecting a whole lot of improvement. However, I could be proven completely wrong...It's happened before.
I think this might be affecting bullet flight (I.E. my groups)... When I put the shorter 7" Magnus-S on there, the alignment rod is much more centered in the bore.So, I will be testing a group both with and without the Magnus-S this upcoming weekend. If it gets good groups without the can, then we know there's a muzzle thread problem and it's going back to CarbonSix. If it still shoots like shit with AND without the suppressor, then we know we have an internal barrel problem, and it's going to go back to CarbonSix. So, most likely, either way, this barrel is going to be getting sent back to them.
IF it shoots noticeably better with or without the suppressors, then I will try another run of StaBall 6.5 to see how it does with that, as well.
But, at this point, I'm certainly not holding my breath, or expecting a whole lot of improvement. However, I could be proven completely wrong...It's happened before.
If I were going to do a SA 7 mm -08 wildcat this is the case I'd use..
Here is a 6.8 ×51 hybrid case just mandrel from .277 to .284" -.002" approximately and seat a bullet, and shoot.
It will handle up to 80,000 psi if wanted.
Give you 7mm WSM performance if wanted.
2.875" and 2.950" depending on your needs with the 7mm 180 gr Berger.
Noting in .470 dia case will be faster than the hybrid case.
I use the hybrid case for a number of cartridges in the 308 family.
The 6.5 CM with this case will run 140 gr match at 3150, or 150 gr SMK at 3000 fps, in 24" barrel. or 308 W 200 SMK at 2900 fps in 30" barrel.
There is a big advantage to the hybrid case.
It gives more room to find an accurate, high velocity load below maximum and still be way ahead of other 308 dia case head cartridges on the market.
Something to consider when choosing your wildcat, or standard 7mm-08 for performance.
Here is a 6.8 ×51 hybrid case just mandrel from .277 to .284" -.002" approximately and seat a bullet, and shoot.
It will handle up to 80,000 psi if wanted.
Give you 7mm WSM performance if wanted.
2.875" and 2.950" depending on your needs with the 7mm 180 gr Berger.
Noting in .470 dia case will be faster than the hybrid case.
I use the hybrid case for a number of cartridges in the 308 family.
The 6.5 CM with this case will run 140 gr match at 3150, or 150 gr SMK at 3000 fps, in 24" barrel. or 308 W 200 SMK at 2900 fps in 30" barrel.
There is a big advantage to the hybrid case.
It gives more room to find an accurate, high velocity load below maximum and still be way ahead of other 308 dia case head cartridges on the market.
Something to consider when choosing your wildcat, or standard 7mm-08 for performance.
