8.6 BLK, The Caliber For Advanced Years.

[Judcargile]

One of the most stunningly stupid things I have ever heard here, or anywhere else.

You understand the energy of linear velocity. You have to stop the spinning as well. The idea of there being a difference of said energy has never been a thing because there was not a significant difference. 1:3 twist makes it obvious.
If I were smart, I would be talking everyone out of 8.6 to quell the customer competition.

 

[Ledzep]

You understand the energy of linear velocity. You have to stop the spinning as well. The idea of there being a difference of said energy has never been a thing because there was not a significant difference. 1:3 twist makes it obvious.
If I were smart, I would be talking everyone out of 8.6 to quell the customer competition.

Tell me how much rotational energy gain there is on a 190gr .308 bullet going from 1:8 to 1:3 at 1050fps... Or a 300gr .338 projectile?

Also, do you think that energy is free? Not going to heat the barrel up faster, not going to rob kinetic energy from the powder?

How much more susceptible are projectiles to core/jacket failures?

Next, what do you think the effect of nearly tripling the rotational velocity does to jacket petals once they hit medium (10% FBI Gel, for example)?

Tag-along to that last one; How is a projectile going to transmit that rotational energy once the jacket petals are ripped off?

eta: Tag-along 1.5; Ever consider the negative effects of a wound channel from a bullet losing its petals?

Tag-along 2; Pretending the jacket petals don't rip off, what significant change is there to the wound channel with a faster twist rate?

 

[Snuby642]

I can't belive this troll is still running.

 

[hlee]

Mo’ RPMs means mo’ rip ems.

 

[st1650]

Guys, it’s obviously the opposite of the 338LM going to sleep past 200 yards. The subsonic bullet wakes up mid flight and becomes self aware and deliver 3 time its own energy.

 

[308pirate]

You understand the energy of linear velocity. You have to stop the spinning as well. The idea of there being a difference of said energy has never been a thing because there was not a significant difference. 1:3 twist makes it obvious.
If I were smart, I would be talking everyone out of 8.6 to quell the customer competition.

You're still an ignoramus and a walking display of Dunning-Kruger

 

[Choid]

You're still an ignoramus and a walking display of Dunning-Kruger

Yeah, he should definitely be in the Bear Pit.

 

[Snuby642]

Ya big man 308.

Keep it up you'll have him walk upstairs to the kitchen and cry to mommy .






No seriously keep it up.

 

[Baba Yaga]

Can an 8.6 blk round be chambered in a 308 chamber? Hoping to avoid a 300 BO in 556 type kaboom.

 

[Snuby642]

I call INCREDABLE bullshit.
It won't chamber.

Go tell mommy.

 

[Snuby642]

That's as far as it goes.
Bolt wont even reach the lugs and you can still see the base of the case.

Where do you fuckers come from?

 

[hlee]

View attachment 7725162

That's as far as it goes.
Bolt wont even reach the lugs and you can still see the base of the case.

Where do you fuckers come from?

What bullet and OAL?

Not everyone limits their 300 BO to heavy for caliber subsonic ammunition only...

 

[iceng]

There is enough salt in here to tan 500 dinosaur hides.

 

[Jscb1b]

There is enough salt in here to tan 500 dinosaur hides.

Shit to fertilize 500 acres.

 

[E. Bryant]

So who has actually done the math on rotational energy of a 8.6 sub from a 1:3 barrel? It appears to be trivial - about 5% of the bullet's translational kinetic energy, depending upon a number of factors such as the bullet's mass and profile. So can we stop talking about this as if it's some sort of fuckin' magic?

 

[Baba Yaga]

View attachment 7725162

That's as far as it goes.
Bolt wont even reach the lugs and you can still see the base of the case.

Where do you fuckers come from?

Videos:
Shooting 300 Blackout in a 5.56 Barrel
Blowing up AR-15 | 300 Blackout in a 556 | Uintah Precision
Public Safety Announcement! Keep 300blk Away From .223 Rifles!

Articles:
Avoiding the .300BLK AR-15 ‘ka-boom!’
Beware .300 Blackout Ammo can be chambered in a 5.56/.223 chamber with catastrophic results
Kaboom!!! 300 BLK in 5.56/223 AR-15!

 

[308pirate]

Can an 8.6 blk round be chambered in a 308 chamber? Hoping to avoid a 300 BO in 556 type kaboom.

How can anyone fuck this up?

You seriously have to be industrial grade stupid to do it.

 

[Snuby642]

Belive what you want I showed you a picture of a 300 blk round I pushed into a 223 barrel.

It didn't chamber.

 

[Ledzep]

So who has actually done the math on rotational energy of a 8.6 sub from a 1:3 barrel? It appears to be trivial - about 5% of the bullet's translational kinetic energy, depending upon a number of factors such as the bullet's mass and profile. So can we stop talking about this as if it's some sort of fuckin' magic?

It's roughly 20 ft-lb with a 190 .30 cal, and about 50 ft-lb with a .338 .300gr. 4-7%.

What happens, and I saw this first with the sig 1:5" twist blackout guns is that it just destroys the jacket, especially going through various intermediate barriers, and you get extremely limited penetration, inconsistent terminal performance, yada yada. Throws a working system out the window and requires a near-total redesign for 4-7% energy increase. Could have bumped velocity 20fps or added 4-7% bullet mass.

That is all with subsonics... So sure you're spinning subs at 250,000rpm like a normal supersonic rpm range.... Now shoot supers through it. 2300fps @ 1:3 is 552,000rpm.....

 

[THEIS]

 

[308pirate]

Belive what you want I showed you a picture of a 300 blk round I pushed into a 223 barrel.

It didn't chamber.

I'm on your side my man

 

[RickyRodney]

"Mommy SH is so mean to me......."

 

[hlee]

Belive what you want I showed you a picture of a 300 blk round I pushed into a 223 barrel.

It didn't chamber.

So, this can’t happen?

Pictures: 300 Blackout in a 5,56 Barrel 16″

ESG Gunworks LLC is a Class 2 manufacturer formed in 2008 by three police officers.They are located in Texas and specialize in building AR-15 and AR-10 style rifles according to the customer’s needs.One of their customer brought in a rifle made by them, an ESG 5.56 mm where the customer had...

www.thefirearmblog.com

or this?

Kaboom!!! 300 BLK in 5.56/223 AR-15!

Some unfortunate shooters have learned the hard way that is is possible to fire a 300BLK in a rifle chambered for 5.56mm or 223 Remington. The results of such a dangerous event are spectacular. In …

rifleshooter.com

or this?

Beware .300 Blackout Ammo can be chambered in a 5.56/.223 chamber with catastrophic results.

This article is a little different from other gunsmithing tips and procedures. Since I have seen at least 3 returns come in with this problem I think a warning is in order. It can not be stressed enough to match your ammunition to the markings on the barrel! The following are photos of a rifle […]

www.windhamweaponry.com

Thank goodness. One less thing to worry about…

 

[Baba Yaga]

PMAG 30 AR 300 B GEN M3, 300 BLK

"When using 5.56x45mm mags, the potential to chamber and fire a 300 BLK round in a 5.56x45mm rifle with catastrophic results requires diligent ammunition management by the shooter. The PMAG 30 AR 300 B’s distinct rib design and smoother upper-half texture provides the shooter a distinct visual and tactile difference from any other PMAG to mitigate dangerous cross-loading issues."

@308pirate @Snuby642

 

[E. Bryant]

I tried to chamber a round of Barnes 300 AAC 110gr TAC-TX in the nearest AR I could find (a Larue UU build, if it matters), and it wouldn't go. But that doesn't mean I can claim it to be impossible for all combinations of ammo and chamber to prevent this mistake. Pretty sure that both @308pirate and @Snuby642 know enough about tolerances and their real-world effects to understand why it's impossible to extrapolate a single datapoint so broadly.

 

[Baba Yaga]

I just want to know if 8.6 can be cross loaded with 308

 

[308pirate]

I just want to know if 8.6 can be cross loaded with 308

Why don't you do your fucking homework then?

 

[308pirate]

So, this can’t happen?

Pictures: 300 Blackout in a 5,56 Barrel 16″

ESG Gunworks LLC is a Class 2 manufacturer formed in 2008 by three police officers.They are located in Texas and specialize in building AR-15 and AR-10 style rifles according to the customer’s needs.One of their customer brought in a rifle made by them, an ESG 5.56 mm where the customer had...

www.thefirearmblog.com

or this?

Kaboom!!! 300 BLK in 5.56/223 AR-15!

Some unfortunate shooters have learned the hard way that is is possible to fire a 300BLK in a rifle chambered for 5.56mm or 223 Remington. The results of such a dangerous event are spectacular. In …

rifleshooter.com

or this?

Beware .300 Blackout Ammo can be chambered in a 5.56/.223 chamber with catastrophic results.

This article is a little different from other gunsmithing tips and procedures. Since I have seen at least 3 returns come in with this problem I think a warning is in order. It can not be stressed enough to match your ammunition to the markings on the barrel! The following are photos of a rifle […]

www.windhamweaponry.com

Thank goodness. One less thing to worry about…

How does a cartridge with a 7.62 mm diameter bullet chamber into a rifle with a 5.56 mm throat?

 

[THEIS]

I just want to know if 8.6 can be cross loaded with 308

 

[Snuby642]

You can't get iether to chamber in the wrong gun.

The bolt won't close.

 

[E. Bryant]

How does a cartridge with a 7.62 mm diameter bullet chamber into a rifle with a 5.56 mm throat?

Because it's a shorter round.

Might want to check that coffee pot to make sure you're not hitting the decaf.

 

[Judcargile]

Tell me how much rotational energy gain there is on a 190gr .308 bullet going from 1:8 to 1:3 at 1050fps... Or a 300gr .338 projectile?

Also, do you think that energy is free? Not going to heat the barrel up faster, not going to rob kinetic energy from the powder?

How much more susceptible are projectiles to core/jacket failures?

Next, what do you think the effect of nearly tripling the rotational velocity does to jacket petals once they hit medium (10% FBI Gel, for example)?

Tag-along to that last one; How is a projectile going to transmit that rotational energy once the jacket petals are ripped off?

eta: Tag-along 1.5; Ever consider the negative effects of a wound channel from a bullet losing its petals?

Tag-along 2; Pretending the jacket petals don't rip off, what significant change is there to the wound channel with a faster twist rate?

They extrapolate the data from Solidworks.
The twist energy robs from the flash and bang, the propellant makes the heat (obviously) while the faster spin would have more friction, it has not melted a barrel yet.
You MUST use bonded bullets!!!!

 

[Judcargile]

Can an 8.6 blk round be chambered in a 308 chamber? Hoping to avoid a 300 BO in 556 type kaboom.

No

 

[Judcargile]

You're still an ignoramus and a walking display of Dunning-Kruger

Maybe one day, if you study hard, you might be able to carry on a thought process that is capable of something other than sinple adolescent insults.

 

[E. Bryant]

They extrapolate the data from Solidworks.
The twist energy robs from the flash and bang, the propellant makes the heat (obviously) while the faster spin would have more friction, it has not melted a barrel yet.
You MUST use bonded bullets!!!!

You're missing a few steps post-Solidworks. I know this, because I did a quick model of a bullet in Solidworks this morning, and then actually did the fucking math required to figure out the amount of rotational energy stored in a 300gr .338 bullet with arbitrary ogive and boat tail dimensions moving at 1050 fps from a 1:3 twist barrel. It's not particularly complicated math; a 5th-grader can crunch numbers through the necessary equations if they have a high-school physics student standing over his shoulder to help keep the units consistent.

It's a bit more work than glomming onto whatever claims have been made in random Instagram posts, but it produces better results.

 

[Judcargile]

It’s funny that KB does fine when he copy other people works, yet is unable to make his own project happens.

Q LLC was backordered even during the Trump administration. He has a resume that most can only envy. Today's 300BLK has 300BKL bullets. 300 Whisper uses 308 bullets. The longer, heavier subs could never lay parallel to the follower in the 5.56 mag. He answered the request of JSOC to make a replacement for the MP5....because you have to do more than look cool to fight successfully!!!
Hornady has already stuck a run of brass for 8.6. The hurdle regarding the barrels is unfortunate; But, when you make new roads, it takes more work.
What do you shoot? Could you even afford to buy something they make, other than a shirt or mug?
Oxygen thief!!!!

 

[Judcargile]

You're missing a few steps post-Solidworks. I know this, because I did a quick model of a bullet in Solidworks this morning, and then actually did the fucking math required to figure out the amount of rotational energy stored in a 300gr .338 bullet with arbitrary ogive and boat tail dimensions moving at 1050 fps from a 1:3 twist barrel. It's not particularly complicated math; a 5th-grader can crunch numbers through the necessary equations if they have a high-school physics student standing over his shoulder to help keep the units consistent.

It's a bit more work than glomming onto whatever claims have been made in random Instagram posts, but it produces better results.

How my ft lbs @ 500 yards?

 

[st1650]

Q LLC was backordered even during the Trump administration. He has a resume that most can only envy. Today's 300BLK has 300BKL bullets. 300 Whisper uses 308 bullets. The longer, heavier subs could never lay parallel to the follower in the 5.56 mag. He answered the request of JSOC to make a replacement for the MP5....because you have to do more than look cool to fight successfully!!!
Hornady has already stuck a run of brass for 8.6. The hurdle regarding the barrels is unfortunate; But, when you make new roads, it takes more work.
What do you shoot? Could you even afford to buy something they make, other than a shirt or mug?
Oxygen thief!!!!

Just for subsonic, I have 1 desert tech, 1 RimX and a defiance anTI in 12.5” in a MPA ultralite chassis, I promise you I can certainly afford anything from KB. I’ve been in the subsonic game since 2008. I can actually shoot both my DTA 308 with Berger 175 (using VV Tinstar) Lapua 200 (with Trailboss) and my AnTI with Amax 208(N105) and I can do 1 moa at 200 yards with single digit SD/ES. On the hunting side, I have actual experience with LeHigh 174 CF, 194ME and the 190 subX on game. Have you done anything except repeats podcasts talking points ?

 

[Judcargile]

Just for subsonic, I have 1 desert tech, 1 RimX and a defiance anTI in 12.5” in a MPA ultralite chassis, I promise you I can certainly afford anything from KB. I’ve been in the subsonic game since 2008. I can actually shoot both my DTA 308 with Berger 175 (using VV Tinstar) Lapua 200 (with Trailboss) and my AnTI with Amax 208(N105) and I can do 1 moa at 200 yards with single digit SD/ES. On the hunting side, I have actual experience with LeHigh 174 CF, 194ME and the 190 subX on game. Have you done anything except repeats podcasts talking points ?

Well, that does impress me.
I have only done subs with pistol.
My only rifle caliber is 308 and it never seemec worth it to load subsonic 308; Now that discreet ballistics has decent sub bullets, if I could find Tinstar, I would try it out.
Energy wise, it makes little sense for me to sub 308, when I have 45acp, although 300blk and 308 will fly better, further.
I just could never get excited enough to support 300blk for what it did; But, when 8.6 does 2x and maybe 3x the job.....I am all in.

 

[Judcargile]

The Defiance sounds pretty damn sweet!

 

[308pirate]

Maybe one day, if you study hard, you might be able to carry on a thought process that is capable of something other than sinple adolescent insults.

I've forgotten more about mechanical engineering than you'll ever know.

We're laughing at you, not with you.

 

[Judcargile]

So you say.

 

[silentwoods]

LOL...... AAAAND heee's baaaaack.

You're either into bdsm and get off on having your nuts smacked with a ping pong paddle, or you're dumb.

Either way troll on

 

[AMMOWASTER]

It’s funny that KB does fine when he copy other people works, yet is unable to make his own project happens.

I understand why he rubs people the wrong way but he is pretty consistently successful. He built AAC into a powerhouse and Q seems to be doing great from what I can see.

 

[st1650]

I understand why he rubs people the wrong way but he is pretty consistently successful. He built AAC into a powerhouse and Q seems to be doing great from what I can see.

He's a successful businessman. No doubts. My observations is that we he tries to actually innovate, he seems not to be as successful as an inventor. As a businessman, I'm sure he'll find a way to be profitable. Also, old AAC had tons tons tons of issue with their products, especially but not limited to their mounts and they wouldn't stand behind their products. Theres a reason Q went with threaded taper mounts and none of those awful ratchet mounts.
But hey, if he can find a magical way to bend physics and give me affordable, accurate long range subsonic with devastating terminal ballistics, I'll be the first one to rebarrel my anTI and my DTA.
To me, true innovation would be a company finding a way to mass produce and sell LeHigh styled bullets for .30$ per ct (instead of 2$ per projo). Hornady SubX was an decent effort but it's clearly more effective on 2 legged critters than 4.

 

[silentwoods]

I understand why he rubs people the wrong way but he is pretty consistently successful. He built AAC into a powerhouse and Q seems to be doing great from what I can see.

Robert Silvers made AAC an innovator around 2007-8.

KB was the face and pitch guy.

He sold out.
Went to SIG, got screwed, sued and won.
Q- meh

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Robert Silvers made AAC an innovator around 2007-8.

KB was the face and pitch guy.

He sold out.
Went to SIG, got screwed, sued and won.
Q- meh

He sued Sig or you talking about Remington? I don't know as may details as many of you so I just go off what I see. Even on his podcast he talks about his biggest asset is the good people he has working for him. He frequently talks about how having real innovative engineers is what has set them apart.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

As to the spin making a difference I guess I don't see why that's so hard to believe. I'm not saying it's some huge increase but not everything can be explained by simple math calculations for energy which we know doesn't always translate directly to killing power. Every time I've heard Kevin or the other guys talking about it's always involving the fancy copper bullets like the Lehigh and similar that can take advantage of it. He mentions that he would have done the Blackout the same way if he was doing it from scratch rather than building it for the contract they did which required them to use COTS bullets that won't stand up to a super fast twist. He compared it to a blender and apparently worked on game they've shot with it. Even with all that it seems like what he uses most is some Barnes triple shock variant.

 

[silentwoods]

He sued Sig or you talking about Remington? I don't know as may details as many of you so I just go off what I see. Even on his podcast he talks about his biggest asset is the good people he has working for him. He frequently talks about how having real innovative engineers is what has set them apart.

He sued SIG and won. Shady shit in the world of business.

I was on silencer talk back when it was good. I read his blather blaming everyone in the industry for his problems. Hell, Kara was on the site too.

Silvers made AAC.

KB is overrated and literally does nothing new or of value that isn't already proven beforehand.

Overrated .

But he's loaded and has it made so good on him.

Eugene Stoner , Kalishnikov or Browning he is definitely not.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Got a link to the Sig lawsuit info I can't find anything. I am aware of him suing Remington and winning but not Sig.