8.6 BLK, The Caliber For Advanced Years.

[Judcargile]

Robert Silvers made AAC an innovator around 2007-8.

KB was the face and pitch guy.

He sold out.
Went to SIG, got screwed, sued and won.
Q- meh

Kevin Brittingham Leaves SIG SAUER to Form His Own Firearms Company - The Truth About Guns

Kevin Brittingham, the executive behind a wide range of innovative products produced by SIG SAUER, has left the building. In an exclusive interview with TTAG, Brittingham revealed the tensions leading to his departure from the gunmaker’s U.S. division and his plans to start an entirely new...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Uncle Kevin sued Remington.

He was the original founder of AAC.

He chose to leave Sig because the ways of big corporate impeding the innovation he wanted to produce.

I realize that he got on here and would not play nice with some of you; Peckers got conpared and feelings got hurt.

You can like or not like who and what you like; You can even use weak reasons for it. That is the beauty of living in a society that protects unpopular speech.
Where I fall out with many in this forum is the misrepresentation of fact and the us and them crowd mentality.

 

[tomcatfan]

Where I fall out with many in this forum is the misrepresentation of fact…

Do you mean things like drastically overstating the effects of the rotational energy of bullets?

 

[Judcargile]

I did actually attempt to back track and find just how big of a deal i tried to make of it.
I absolutely get excited about firearms and new things with firearms just gets me spun up. I am sick, I tell you!

The energy from a much higher spin is not at all the focus, purpose or distinction of 8.6; The utility of a subsonic round is the #1 intent here. You add to the utility of that subsonic weapon by having a supersonic option when needed. This idea is no different than 300BLK.

8.6 seems to check all of the things I think I need.

The fast twist is for stability.

There is only a benefit of more energy on target.

It is significant and enough to be obvious.

 

[silentwoods]

Kevin Brittingham Leaves SIG SAUER to Form His Own Firearms Company - The Truth About Guns

Kevin Brittingham, the executive behind a wide range of innovative products produced by SIG SAUER, has left the building. In an exclusive interview with TTAG, Brittingham revealed the tensions leading to his departure from the gunmaker’s U.S. division and his plans to start an entirely new...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Uncle Kevin sued Remington.

He was the original founder of AAC.

He chose to leave Sig because the ways of big corporate impeding the innovation he wanted to produce.

I realize that he got on here and would not play nice with some of you; Peckers got conpared and feelings got hurt.

You can like or not like who and what you like; You can even use weak reasons for it. That is the beauty of living in a society that protects unpopular speech.
Where I fall out with many in this forum is the misrepresentation of fact and the us and them crowd menta

Kevin Brittingham Leaves SIG SAUER to Form His Own Firearms Company - The Truth About Guns

Kevin Brittingham, the executive behind a wide range of innovative products produced by SIG SAUER, has left the building. In an exclusive interview with TTAG, Brittingham revealed the tensions leading to his departure from the gunmaker’s U.S. division and his plans to start an entirely new...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Uncle Kevin sued Remington.

He was the original founder of AAC.

He chose to leave Sig because the ways of big corporate impeding the innovation he wanted to produce.

I realize that he got on here and would not play nice with some of you; Peckers got conpared and feelings got hurt.

You can like or not like who and what you like; You can even use weak reasons for it. That is the beauty of living in a society that protects unpopular speech.
Where I fall out with many in this forum is the misrepresentation of fact and the us and them crowd mentality.

I know the story. Actually I'll wager I know far more about KB and his past than you.

But it is kinda cute you quoted me.
If you choose to fap to images or the mere sound of his voice like a true devotee feel free. But he's an overrated douchebag and snake oil salesman.

As far as Kb getting on here, blah,blah,blah.

That would be one for the ages. Hell, call him up or the next time you are engaging in pillow talk whisper the "bear pit" in his ear. This ain't silencer talk.

And best of luck in the future.
Judging from your posts on here it brings a quote to mind.

" Life's tough, it's tougher if your stupid. "

 

[Judcargile]

Please do give an example of this oil you speak of.

 

[LeftyJason]

I know the story. Actually I'll wager I know far more about KB and his past than you.

But it is kinda cute you quoted me.
If you choose to fap to images or the mere sound of his voice like a true devotee feel free. But he's an overrated douchebag and snake oil salesman.

As far as Kb getting on here, blah,blah,blah.

That would be one for the ages. Hell, call him up or the next time you are engaging in pillow talk whisper the "bear pit" in his ear. This ain't silencer talk.

And best of luck in the future.
Judging from your posts on here it brings a quote to mind.

" Life's tough, it's tougher if your stupid. "

Check him out. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/members/kevin-brittingham.117080/
Especially the posts in the Fix thread, Welding Titanium, and the Trash panda vs nomad thread.
Came across as a complete dbag and full of himself.

 

[E. Bryant]

Check him out. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/members/kevin-brittingham.117080/
Especially the posts in the Fix thread, Welding Titanium, and the Trash panda vs nomad thread.
Came across as a complete dbag and full of himself.

This should be really cringy for KB or his nut-lickers:

Suppressors - Welding Titanium

Just a little info folks interested in Ti cans should be aware of. I'm surprised at some of the stuff I've seen out there.

www.snipershide.com

It's one thing to have an opinion; it's another thing entirely to misrepresent a product's ability to meet relevant industry standards.

As a side note, I see that paco "I'm not selling anything" ramirez from CGS caught a ban (presumably for shilling without a commercial account). This reinforces the difficulty in finding a vendor who:

- Can contribute useful knowledge
- Is not a completely dysfunctional asshole
- Is capable of following basic forum rules

For those who haven't been here for long and do not understand these matters, this is why we place a high value on the unit provided by people such as Zac and Ray from TBAC, Chad at LRI, David Tooley, Mike from Vudoo, Tom and Scott from AI, Frank Green and the rest of his Bartlein crew, and a few select others. They come in here with respect to the forum owners and users, add value beyond simply shilling their products and services, and basically act like decent humans. It shouldn't be uncommon, but it is and guys like KB blow in here on occasion to remind us.

All that being said, KB's marketing would be genius if his shit worked better, and I still want a Fix since I'm not yet sure that the Cross scratched that particular itch.

 

[silentwoods]

Check him out. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/members/kevin-brittingham.117080/
Especially the posts in the Fix thread, Welding Titanium, and the Trash panda vs nomad thread.
Came across as a complete dbag and full of himself.

He is a dbag.

I've never said he is stupid, but I did say he's overrated and he is.

I read his tripe for years in ST. Henry from SWR, Trey from KAC and others were on there weekly . Hell, I even got in on the Xmas cheer program. Which was very cool of Trey to do.

Silvers reminds me of DR. Spock. Smart as hell, but odd.

KB, is a punk.

 

[silentwoods]

Please do give an example of this oil you speak of.

Negative fan boy.

The way back machine is a thing.

I don't owe you proof, evidence or anything else for that matter.

But I have exactly nothing invested in KB, just what I know from may e thousands of posts from him.

For example, the gemtax was a fight between him and gemtech. He was taking shitty GT cans and completely turning it into a good can. Cool right?

Except his punk ass had to tbag GT every single time, ads poking at them etc. To where GT asked for clarification and WE ended up with the gemtax.

And that whole thing was because of history between him and Dater.

And for the record, SIG tried to screw him when he left but he had the money from selling AAC to win in court. I actually rooted for him on that one.

So no, I'm not a hater, I just know he's overrated as I said. Silvers made AAC not Kb.

 

[hlee]

So, just to tie a bow on the "Can you blow up your 223 with a 300 Blackout cartridge" side thread, I finally got out into the garage to do a bit of an experiment. I started with some 62 grain 223rem Federal ETSP that was given to me a couple of years ago. I also grabbed 3 different hand loads that I have made up for my 300 Black out.

I measured the Base to Ogive for 5 cartridges from the Federal ETSP load using a Hornady comparator, a 0.220 insert, and a Cabelas brand digital caliper.
1.8585
1.8585
1.8565
1.8640
1.8625
Average 1.860

The hand loads that I had on hand include Hornady 208 gr BTHP (subsonic), Hornady 225 gr BTHP (subsonic), and a moly coated 125 gr solid copper hollowpoint bought from MidSouth SHooters' Supply as a blem (super sonic). I measured the Base to 0.220 measurement for 5 of each.
208 BTHP average 1.914
225 BTHP average 1.918
125 Copper HP avg 1.897

I also measured the COAL
208 BTHP average 2.249 (2.250 nominal)
225 BTHP average 2.248 (2.250 nominal)
125 Copper HP avg 2.035 (2.030 nominal)

I had 4 308 caliber bullets to try. While I realize that 308 is arguably the most common bullet diameter and there are probably dozens of bullets in this size, I feel that I have hit on a common bullet for supersonic loads (125 gr Nosler BT) as well as subsonic loads (208 gr Hornady ELD-M). I used the hornady comparator, the 0.220 insert, and a fine Sharpie to mark lines at 0.220 on 1 bullet from each of the samples. I then used the 0.300 insert to draw a line at the ogive of each bullet.

As a first test, each bullet was seated in a S&B 300 BO case (300 BO head stamp, once fired and resized using a Hornady Custom Sizing Die) such that the Base to 0.220 mark mimicked the BTO measurement for the 62 gr ETSP load. No powder or primer was used in this test.
125 gr Nosler BT- 1.859
Barnes 168gr TSX- 1.8585
Hornady 168 gr AMAX- 1.860
Hornady 208 gr ELD-M- 1.8575

I also measured the Cartridge overall length (COAL) for each of the "dummy rounds."
125 gr Nosler BT- 2.1835
Barnes 168 gr TSX- 2.126
Hornady 168 gr AMAX- 2.210
Hornady 208 gr ELD-M- 2.2545

Satisfied that each of were no longer than "magazine length," I attempted to chamber each. Each was loaded into an empty 10 round Magpul Pmag with the bolt of the rifle locked back. The release was dropped and the result observed. I made no attempt to force the issue with the forward assist. None chambered. In the picture below, you can clearly see a circular dent created in each bullet during the attempt. And, if you look, you can clearly see that each experienced significant bullet set back. The rifle for this test was a DPMS Oracle marked as 223/5.56.

I had a momentary lapse and moved forward to the next step before snapping a pic. The ELD-M load did not set back as far as the picture would suggest. I had used the press to seat it further into the case before I remembered to take the pic.

COAL after chambering attempt
125 gr BT- 2.082, difference of 0.1015
168 gr TSX- 2.014, difference of 0.112
168 gr AMAX- 2.140, difference of 0.07
208 gr ELD-M- 2.216, difference of 0.0385

Finding that 300 BO cartridges loaded to more or less mimic the dimensions of a 223rem round did not chamber in my 223, the next question was "What if I seat the bullets to a 'functional minimum' with the ogive right at the case mouth?" And, that is what I did.

All 4 of these dummy rounds DID chamber in my 223rem AR15- with a caveat. As observed in the picture below, 3 of the 4 experienced additional set back.

Final overall lengths for ejected cartridges are as follows
125gr Nosler BT- 2.010
168 gr Barnes TSX- 1.962
168 gr AMAX- 2.010
208 gr ELD-M- 2.109

So, what is the conclusion drawn from this? Well, yes, it IS possible to chamber a 300 BO cartridge in a 223/5.56 chambered rifle. That should be obvious from the 223rem being the parent case of the 300BO, and the minimal forming required to make the 300BO. But, and this is a really BIG but- bullets common to 300BO usage need to be seated at or below the ogive in order to force them to chamber in a 223/5.56 rifle. To my mind, this makes it possible- though HIGHLY UNLIKELY (bordering on willful)- to chamber and fire a 300BO in a 223.

 

[iceng]

Great info. Thanks.

Anyone could conclude that the 300blkout was designed to not chamber in 223 from get go.

 

[E. Bryant]

Great info. Thanks.

Anyone could conclude that the 300blkout was designed to not chamber in 223 from get go.

"Designed not to" and "will never go into" are clearly not the same things, and so a few people in this thread need a reminder to be careful how liberally they use terms like "never", "impossible", etc.

Depending upon the position of the bullet ogive to prevent mis-chambering of the wrong cartridge is a poor design, as should be quickly comprehended by anyone with a basic working knowledge of industrial concepts such as poke yoke.

 

[Im2bent]

All 4 of these dummy rounds DID chamber in my 223rem AR15- with a caveat. As observed in the picture below, 3 of the 4 experienced additional set back.

So the bullet gets jammed in the lands and is set back making things even worse when you pull the trigger.

 

[Dogtown]

So much drama...always

 

[AMMOWASTER]

It cracks me up you guys are arguing this. I have come across a couple fully documented incidents of 300 Blackout blowing up 223/556 rifles. I know one was on AR15.com but it's been a long time.
Here's one vid from 3 years ago.

 

[Judcargile]

Fine by me Silentwoods.
You don't deserve Q things in your life.

I actually feel sorry for guys (or girls, who knows with all the anonymity in this community) like you; You will never know the simple pleasures, like walking with Sister-Wife in Pratt Park or owning a Q mystery shirt.
Men like Kevin and I use our real names because..........well, I am not really sure why. It is just part of being a man.

 

[iceng]

"Designed not to" and "will never go into" are clearly not the same things, and so a few people in this thread need a reminder to be careful how liberally they use terms like "never", "impossible", etc.

Exactly this, and why I said designed.
Anything will fit if you have a big enough hammer. I had a customer send a 308win down a 270win successfully. I bet that proj was REAL long as it exited.

 

[acudaowner]

got to love new rounds that you can only get one box of per year maybe Id be happier if they just start putting powder , primers , and lead on shelves ammo with no primers or no ammo does not bode well for a nothing new round .

 

[hlee]

Exactly this, and why I said designed.
Anything will fit if you have a big enough hammer. I had a customer send a 308win down a 270win successfully. I bet that proj was REAL long as it exited.

Less long than a 300 BO down a 223…

 

[tomcatfan]

got to love new rounds that you can only get one box of per year maybe Id be happier if they just start putting powder , primers , and lead on shelves ammo with no primers or no ammo does not bode well for a nothing new round .

Not only that, after looking at how expensive just the bullets are, even reloading this round is silly. I’m not even a little interested in paying the price of admission. While I don’t do it personally, I understand paying the 338 price tag for the extreme long range stuff. But taking those pills and making them subsonic, defeats the purpose. I maybe wrong, but I don’t see this round being very successful as compared to something like the ARC…

 

[MK20]

WTF is "Sister-Wife"?

You from Alabama there sir?

 

[BamaSE]

WTF is "Sister-Wife"?

You from Alabama there sir?

Hey, hey! We may do a lot of bass ackward stuff in Alabama, but sister-wife ain’t one of them. That’s a Utah thing!
We are about the most firearm friendly state with very liberal hunting seasons. Day or night you can pretty much hunt something all year long. Ya’ll keep that in mind if considering to relocate to a Free State. That’s my PSA for the week

 

[MK20]

I used to work with a guy who lives down there. He would always make the same remark when he would see Rachel Maddow on the TV.

"Man, I would really like to fuck her with my bayonet. Yuh know what I mean?"

 

[silentwoods]

Fine by me Silentwoods.
You don't deserve Q things in your life.

I actually feel sorry for guys (or girls, who knows with all the anonymity in this community) like you; You will never know the simple pleasures, like walking with Sister-Wife in Pratt Park or owning a Q mystery shirt.
Men like Kevin and I use our real names because..........well, I am not really sure why. It is just part of being a man.

You DO have nice taste in trashcans though

 

[Judcargile]

Not only that, after looking at how expensive just the bullets are, even reloading this round is silly. I’m not even a little interested in paying the price of admission. While I don’t do it personally, I understand paying the 338 price tag for the extreme long range stuff. But taking those pills and making them subsonic, defeats the purpose. I maybe wrong, but I don’t see this round being very successful as compared to something like the ARC…

Unless, the intent is to up size the task and purpose of 300 BLK.
It is primarily for subsonic shooting; But, is pretty decent @ full power loads.......just change the mag.

300Blk was successful enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[Judcargile]

got to love new rounds that you can only get one box of per year maybe Id be happier if they just start putting powder , primers , and lead on shelves ammo with no primers or no ammo does not bode well for a nothing new round .

?!?!?!
I am sure Remington could use a guy like you on their team.

 

[Yondering]

So, just to tie a bow on the "Can you blow up your 223 with a 300 Blackout cartridge" side thread, I finally got out into the garage to do a bit of an experiment. I started with some 62 grain 223rem Federal ETSP that was given to me a couple of years ago. I also grabbed 3 different hand loads that I have made up for my 300 Black out.

View attachment 7730936

I measured the Base to Ogive for 5 cartridges from the Federal ETSP load using a Hornady comparator, a 0.220 insert, and a Cabelas brand digital caliper.
1.8585
1.8585
1.8565
1.8640
1.8625
Average 1.860

The hand loads that I had on hand include Hornady 208 gr BTHP (subsonic), Hornady 225 gr BTHP (subsonic), and a moly coated 125 gr solid copper hollowpoint bought from MidSouth SHooters' Supply as a blem (super sonic). I measured the Base to 0.220 measurement for 5 of each.
208 BTHP average 1.914
225 BTHP average 1.918
125 Copper HP avg 1.897

I also measured the COAL
208 BTHP average 2.249 (2.250 nominal)
225 BTHP average 2.248 (2.250 nominal)
125 Copper HP avg 2.035 (2.030 nominal)

I had 4 308 caliber bullets to try. While I realize that 308 is arguably the most common bullet diameter and there are probably dozens of bullets in this size, I feel that I have hit on a common bullet for supersonic loads (125 gr Nosler BT) as well as subsonic loads (208 gr Hornady ELD-M). I used the hornady comparator, the 0.220 insert, and a fine Sharpie to mark lines at 0.220 on 1 bullet from each of the samples. I then used the 0.300 insert to draw a line at the ogive of each bullet.

View attachment 7730940

As a first test, each bullet was seated in a S&B 300 BO case (300 BO head stamp, once fired and resized using a Hornady Custom Sizing Die) such that the Base to 0.220 mark mimicked the BTO measurement for the 62 gr ETSP load. No powder or primer was used in this test.
125 gr Nosler BT- 1.859
Barnes 168gr TSX- 1.8585
Hornady 168 gr AMAX- 1.860
Hornady 208 gr ELD-M- 1.8575

View attachment 7730950

I also measured the Cartridge overall length (COAL) for each of the "dummy rounds."
125 gr Nosler BT- 2.1835
Barnes 168 gr TSX- 2.126
Hornady 168 gr AMAX- 2.210
Hornady 208 gr ELD-M- 2.2545

Satisfied that each of were no longer than "magazine length," I attempted to chamber each. Each was loaded into an empty 10 round Magpul Pmag with the bolt of the rifle locked back. The release was dropped and the result observed. I made no attempt to force the issue with the forward assist. None chambered. In the picture below, you can clearly see a circular dent created in each bullet during the attempt. And, if you look, you can clearly see that each experienced significant bullet set back. The rifle for this test was a DPMS Oracle marked as 223/5.56.

View attachment 7730959

I had a momentary lapse and moved forward to the next step before snapping a pic. The ELD-M load did not set back as far as the picture would suggest. I had used the press to seat it further into the case before I remembered to take the pic.

COAL after chambering attempt
125 gr BT- 2.082, difference of 0.1015
168 gr TSX- 2.014, difference of 0.112
168 gr AMAX- 2.140, difference of 0.07
208 gr ELD-M- 2.216, difference of 0.0385

Finding that 300 BO cartridges loaded to more or less mimic the dimensions of a 223rem round did not chamber in my 223, the next question was "What if I seat the bullets to a 'functional minimum' with the ogive right at the case mouth?" And, that is what I did.

View attachment 7730967

All 4 of these dummy rounds DID chamber in my 223rem AR15- with a caveat. As observed in the picture below, 3 of the 4 experienced additional set back.

View attachment 7730969

Final overall lengths for ejected cartridges are as follows
125gr Nosler BT- 2.010
168 gr Barnes TSX- 1.962
168 gr AMAX- 2.010
208 gr ELD-M- 2.109

So, what is the conclusion drawn from this? Well, yes, it IS possible to chamber a 300 BO cartridge in a 223/5.56 chambered rifle. That should be obvious from the 223rem being the parent case of the 300BO, and the minimal forming required to make the 300BO. But, and this is a really BIG but- bullets common to 300BO usage need to be seated at or below the ogive in order to force them to chamber in a 223/5.56 rifle. To my mind, this makes it possible- though HIGHLY UNLIKELY (bordering on willful)- to chamber and fire a 300BO in a 223.

Ten minutes of good research and thinking about the problem could have saved you all that work, and the rest of us from reading all that. Of course the long subs won’t chamber in a 5.56. Duh. It didn’t need any ogive measurements to figure that out.

After all that, you still didn’t measure any of the bullets known to have an issue with this problem, specifically the 110gr short bullets like the Nosler Varmageddon.

Yea, the 300 BLK was originally designed and set up so that it wouldn’t chamber in a 5.56; we used mostly 125gr bullets for supers back then like the 125 NBT and TNT, and those would not chamber in 5.56 without severe bullet setback (I.e. it was possible but you really had to try, and deserved what you got if you did). Ammo was loaded such that the .250” diameter point on the bullet ogive, whic corresponds to the 5.56 neck diameter, was long enough to prevent chambering. Of course certain 125-150 gr bullets could have this problem due to their nose profile, but it was something we talked about and paid attention to early in the 309 Blk days.

But then people started using the 110gr Vmax, which worked well but was susceptible to this issue, and then certain manufacturers started loading ammo without any regard for this happening. Nosler was the first I know if, and their 110gr Varmageddon ammo WOULD chamber in a 5.56 without any setback. Bad load. I don’t know if they’ve addressed this since then, it’s been a while.

 

[r.tenorio671]

Ten minutes of good research and thinking about the problem could have saved you all that work, and the rest of us from reading all that. Of course the long subs won’t chamber in a 5.56. Duh. It didn’t need any ogive measurements to figure that out.

After all that, you still didn’t measure any of the bullets known to have an issue with this problem, specifically the 110gr short bullets like the Nosler Varmageddon.

Yea, the 300 BLK was originally designed and set up so that it wouldn’t chamber in a 5.56; we used mostly 125gr bullets for supers back then like the 125 NBT and TNT, and those would not chamber in 5.56 without severe bullet setback (I.e. it was possible but you really had to try, and deserved what you got if you did). Ammo was loaded such that the .250” diameter point on the bullet ogive, whic corresponds to the 5.56 neck diameter, was long enough to prevent chambering. Of course certain 125-150 gr bullets could have this problem due to their nose profile, but it was something we talked about and paid attention to early in the 309 Blk days.

But then people started using the 110gr Vmax, which worked well but was susceptible to this issue, and then certain manufacturers started loading ammo without any regard for this happening. Nosler was the first I know if, and their 110gr Varmageddon ammo WOULD chamber in a 5.56 without any setback. Bad load. I don’t know if they’ve addressed this since then, it’s been a while.

...to add to Yondering's post, certain bullets with secant ogives if loaded "short" to begin with, could result in the round "chambering", albeit they most likely were set back and jammed into the lands, but....the bolt would close enough the round could be fired. Take a look at the Sierra 125 SMK & TMK ogives, pretty sleek...

 

[Yondering]

Simplified for anyone who still doesn’t understand:
- The 300 BLK case drops freely into a 5.56 chamber. After all, it’s just a 5.56 case body necked down.
- The bullet in a 300 Blk round is the only thing that prevents chambering in a 5.56.
- Bullets vary in size and shape. Obviously a short enough bullet could allow a loaded 300 round to chamber in 5.56.
- Demonstrating a failure to chamber with a long bullet does not “prove” that a shorter bullet won’t, or even that it’s unlikely.

Some of the comments in this thread about this topic demonstrate a severe lack of critical thinking skills. That doesn’t mean you’re stupid, necessarily, but it something that needs work.

 

[E. Bryant]

Some of the comments in this thread about this topic demonstrate a severe lack of critical thinking skills. That doesn’t mean you’re stupid, necessarily, but it something that needs work.

Yeah, but some of those demonstrating this lack of critical thinking skills are way too busy shitting on other members concerning their lack of critical thinking skills, or simply chest-beating. You don't really expect introspection and self-reflection in those cases, right?

I do question the credentials and pedigree of any engineer who claims that some variety of foreseeable misuse is impossible, or automatically places the entire blame on the user. That's not the way that good design practices work, and those with said knee-jerk reactions generally don't do well in the manufacturing environment or in anything involving customer interface. And since these are the two areas of an organization where the money is typically made or lost, they get kicked into some forgotten corner where their curmudgeonly attitudes have a lower risk of fucking up something important.

 

[Yondering]

I do question the credentials and pedigree of any engineer who claims that some variety of foreseeable misuse is impossible, or automatically places the entire blame on the user. That's not the way that good design practices work, and those with said knee-jerk reactions generally don't do well in the manufacturing environment or in anything involving customer interface. And since these are the two areas of an organization where the money is typically made or lost, they get kicked into some forgotten corner where their curmudgeonly attitudes have a lower risk of fucking up something important.

I’m not sure who that is directed at in particular or how it applies here.

It was always known that certain bullets & lengths in the 300 would chamber in a 5.56, which is a big reason why other longer bullets were used and recommended in the early days. The .250” diameter of the bullet (which coincides with the 5.56 neck diameter) was intended to be seated to contact the magazine rib where the 5.56 case neck would; this promoted good feeding but also prevented chambering in 5.56 barrels. It’s the relative newcomers who’ve ignored all that part of the original design and caused blowups in 5.56 barrels.

 

[E. Bryant]

I’m not sure who that is directed at in particular or how it applies here.

It's directed at anyone who arrogantly claimed it was impossible to chamber a round of 300 AAC in a 5.56x45. I don't recall you making such a claim, so no, it wasn't aimed at you, and I don't give enough of a shit to go back through this dumpster fire to collect receipts on those who did. I'd like to think they will have to live with their shame, but that would require a level of self-awareness that probably does not exist.

 

[Yondering]

It's directed at anyone who arrogantly claimed it was impossible to chamber a round of 300 AAC in a 5.56x45. I don't recall you making such a claim, so no, it wasn't aimed at you, and I don't give enough of a shit to go back through this dumpster fire to collect receipts on those who did. I'd like to think they will have to live with their shame, but that would require a level of self-awareness that probably does not exist.

Ok that makes sense, and I agree. Especially about the last line.

 

[E. Bryant]

BuT 300 bLaCKoUt dOEsn'T FiT iN 5.56

Literally posted on IG just yesterday:

 

[iceng]

Anything fits if you ram it hard enough. I had a customer send a 308win down a 270 barrel.

I'm sure I could make an inappropriate joke. But I'm above that.....

Must..... Resist....

 

[Yondering]

Anything fits if you ram it hard enough. I had a customer send a 308win down a 270 barrel.

I'm sure I could make an inappropriate joke. But I'm above that.....

Must..... Resist....

Sure, but that completely misses the point here. Certain 300 Blackout rounds will chamber freely in a 5.56 without any abnormal force, because the bullet is short enough to allow it to fit.

That’s not about ramming something hard enough to make it fit.

 

[iceng]

Can't you just give me a win about ramming things in where they shouldn't fit ?

Also, yes yes. There's shit ammo out there which is not really to a satisfactory spec.

 

[Yondering]

Can't you just give me a win about ramming things in where they shouldn't fit ?

Also, yes yes. There's shit ammo out there which is not really to a satisfactory spec.

Haha sure. Maybe trying to ram logic into small minds where it won’t fit? We’ve got a couple of those here. Lol.

Some of the ammo is good quality otherwise, like the Nosler 110gr Varmageddon I mentioned earlier, but whoever designed it didn’t pay attention to that one important detail.

 

[8675308]

1/3 twist also won't be terribly accurate at long range unless bullet compagnies start developing 350gr 338 pills and they won't because they can't even keep up with the demand as it is. The perceived gains are not worth the squeeze. There is plenty of heavy hitting, accurate subsonic solutions available right now with plenty of brass, dies, load recipes, etc etc.

Would it be fair to whip out the "this post didn't age well" meme here?

Pork Shredder, 8.6 Blackout, 342gr Expanding Subsonic Hunting Ammunition, Punisher Series - 20 Round Box - For 8" or 12" Barrel | Gorilla Ammunition

*This Product is not eligible for any/all discount codes* *These are loaded for 8" and 12" barrels*

www.gorillaammo.com

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Would it be fair to whip out the "this post didn't age well" meme here?

Pork Shredder, 8.6 Blackout, 342gr Expanding Subsonic Hunting Ammunition, Punisher Series - 20 Round Box - For 8" or 12" Barrel | Gorilla Ammunition

*This Product is not eligible for any/all discount codes* *These are loaded for 8" and 12" barrels*

www.gorillaammo.com

You sure showed him. You join just to post that?

 

[8675308]

You sure showed him. You join just to post that?

Nah, not at all. Reading up on other things around here and that post struck me as funny.

 

[st1650]

"These rounds are designed around a 12″ 8.6 barrel with a 1:3 twist. Shooters can expect to shoot at least sub 2″ groups at 100 yards with these loads."

"All gas gun customers should be aware that repeated cycling of an unfired cartridge can cause the projectile’s crimp to fail and the bullet to become loose".

Wow! 60$ for 20 rounds of 2 MOA accuracy that get loose over time.

Sorry but I'll keep my .452 395gr SubX and 500gr cast 3/4 moa subs out of my 450 BM for half the cost and twice the expansion.
Thank you,

If you want to run heavy subs out of a gasser, why would you possibly want this over a 458 socom or 450 BM with > 500gr subs?

 

[AMMOWASTER]

"These rounds are designed around a 12″ 8.6 barrel with a 1:3 twist. Shooters can expect to shoot at least sub 2″ groups at 100 yards with these loads."

"All gas gun customers should be aware that repeated cycling of an unfired cartridge can cause the projectile’s crimp to fail and the bullet to become loose".

Wow! 60$ for 20 rounds of 2 MOA accuracy that get loose over time.

Sorry but I'll keep my .452 395gr SubX and 500gr cast 3/4 moa subs out of my 450 BM for half the cost and twice the expansion.
Thank you,

If you want to run heavy subs out of a gasser, why would you possibly want this over a 458 socom or 450 BM with > 500gr subs?

Cycling live rounds can be an issue with various rounds and platforms nothing new there. Comparing Hornady ammo to a custom low volume brand new cartridge with an expensive botique copper bullet seems silly to me. Kevin had mentioned that Hornady has a bullet for these so I'm sure we'll see some more reasonably priced stuff down the road if it catches on.

Looks like it has some potential