A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

[MrLebowski]

Ok so at the end of last year before Scott ended it I got in on the group buy he was offering here on the hide for 6.5 Grendel uppers. It should be comming soonish and I want to be ready for some load development when it gets here.
I've already decided to use Lapua brass for everything, I want to use the 95gr. Vmaxs for coyote/varmint hunting, I'm not sure on what powder to put behind them though, any suggestions? For long range target/coyote I'm thinking about useing 140gr Amaxs but open to suggestions. I do have a question for you all though, will I have problems with powder capicaty loading the 140's to max OAL for AR mags? Also what powder do you guys use for the heavier 140 grainers?
Of course I'm going to start low and work my way up like I should and all but I could use a starting point and some pointers from you all.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

you could purchase some factory ammo ....deconstruct them and test 'em over a chrono

 

[jbailey]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

How long is your barrel and what range is "long" for you? To get a 140 grainer moving at a respectable speed from the Grendel, you really need a long barrel and a good powder selection.

The 123 grainers will do upwards of 2500-2600fps from a 20" barrel and hit pretty hard all the way out to 1000. The 123gr Amax is a particularly awesome terminal performer (that plastic tip really makes it easy for bullet to tumble). They run a 0.5+ BC G1, so they are very solid ballistic projectiles. You might have better luck with these than the 140's.

Also, you will want to use magnum primers, not the benchrest stuff. You need the big flash to get all the powder burning.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Use a ball powder and not the stick type for starters. There is alot of info on this stuff, but you might want to check Alexander Arms site for reloading data. Also hogdon's site has alot of data available. The 140 Amax has the best BC that I've seen so far, but alot of guys are shooting the scener bullets if that says anything to you. The 123 Amax bullets grouped very well out of my 18" Sabre barrel, factory load. I haven't tested any of my newest loads using the Nosler 120 so I can't report on it yet. I don't think that you'll have any problem getting 30grs or so into a case if you use a ball powder. 30grs will not fit in a case with stick, or at least it didn't in mine (virgin Hornady). Goodluck

 

[MrLebowski]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

James my gun will have a 24" fluted bull barrel w/ 3 grove polygonal rifling, which helps velocity I'm told. As far as how far I plan to shoot I'll probably use it anywhere from 200-1K yds, shooting targets, steel and yotes.

Also I was wondering my barrel is going to be chambered in .264 lbc not 6.5 Grendel, what should I get for reloading dies? I would be causing extra unneeded wear on the neck if I used regular Grendel dies correct?

 

[Rootshot]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

I really like the Grendel and own 2 Grendel rifles. The 6.5 Grendel is not magic. Expecting to take a 140gr to 1000 yards may be unreasonable.

If we assume you can squeeze 2,300 fps muzzle velocity out of the Grendel with a 140gr Sierra Matchking at sea level and standard atmospheric conditions, you have about 48moa of elevation and a terminal muzzle velocity of 1,165fps. That's really marginal. You will get better performance out of 123gr loads at higher velocities.

Personally, I've found most of my shooting is within 600 yards. I tried 123 grain bullets (Lapua and Hornady). I found that pushing the performance envelope reduced brass live (Grendel brass is expensive!).

I lightened up and went with Sierra 107gr Matchkings and IMR 8208XBR powder. It's temperature insensitive and gives me plenty of velocity for the range I shoot at.

IMHO - save the 140gr bullets for larger cartridges.

--Rootshot

 

[Tactical30]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Use the 123gr. Hornady A-MAX's or even better the 123gr. Lapua Scenars for long range. Forget about the 140gr. A-MAXs. What barrel will you be using?

<span style="text-decoration: underline">For Powders for the 95gr. V-MAX try:</span>
29.0gr. <span style="font-weight: bold">Benchmark</span> (Starting load-27.0gr. MAX-30.0gr.)
30.8gr. <span style="font-weight: bold">TAC</span>
31.0gr. <span style="font-weight: bold">H-335 </span>(Starting load-28.0gr. MAX-31.2gr.)
30.4gr. <span style="font-weight: bold">Xterminator</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">H-322 </span>(Starting Load-26.0gr. MAX-28.8gr.)
<span style="font-weight: bold">IMR 4198 </span>(Starting Load-22.5gr. MAX-25.2gr.)

I found most of this data on Hodgdons website for Grendel data.

For Dies- get <span style="text-decoration: underline">Redding</span>.

 

[MrLebowski]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Longrange I'm useing a Black Hole Weaponry 24" barrel w/ 3 grove polygonal rifling. I was thinking that the 140 might be a bit to much for the smaller Grendel cartrage. Ok so for range hunting/target would you guys use a ballistic tip like the Amax or would you go with a BTHP like the SMK? I like the Amaxs for their cheeper pirce tag but I would still consider ordering some SMKs.

Longrange thanks for the load data on the Vmax, I think benchmark might be the way to go for me cause it would work for my .223 aswell, the less types of powder I have to buy the better. Could I use benchmark for the 123s aswell? As far as dies go, my chambering is going to be .264lbc which has a different shoulder design than 6.5 Grendel. If I use Grendel dies wouldn't it cause added shoulder stress & work hardening? Should I maby just not do a full resize on them or does some one make dies for the .264lbc chamber?

Thanks for the info guys

 

[Rootshot]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

A few thoughts...
If your objective in target shooting is to improve your skills, shoot the best bullets you can afford to remove a variable. I personally have found better accuracy from BTHP bullets than AMAX style.

Don't deviate from the published load formulas. In a bolt action you have an over-engineered platform for safety purposes. A Grendel pushes the AR platform and you can have sheared bolt lugs and other unhappiness if you try to deviate from published loads.

If I understand it right, the difference between the Grendel and .264 LBC is in the throat/leade and not in the shoulder. This means that the dies and ammo should be fully interchangeable.

Best of luck,

--Rootshot

 

[eleaf]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

140s may be too big for a Grendel build.

Try the 120 Nosler BT for hunting.

Try Alexander Arms' reload data:

https://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel_reloading.pdf

For accuracy, us the 123 Lapua Scenars.

 

[jbailey]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

This is a really good discussion and I'm picking up some useful stuff. A few comments from me (I have never loaded for Grendel, but plan to; I do have extensive loading experience with 556Nato and 6.5x47mmL so these are indirectly related).

* Amax's are awesome at long-range (600+yds), at least for me, better than SMKs at that range. I believe this comes from the improved bullet to bullet consistency of their meplat, which is plastic and easier to make than the traditional copper jacket. This means the bullet to bullet BC variation is much smaller than SMKs.

* you might not see this difference at 100yds, or perhaps even 300, as the BC variation doesn't really matter at that range.

* Amax have a secant ogive, vs SMK's (and I believe Scenar) tangent ogive. This means that the Amax will be much more sensitive to seating depth. So you have to spend more time depending an Amax load.

* Amax's plastic tip also improves terminal performance because it puts more weight in the back of the bullet, which will increase the likehood of yaw and pitch at impact (i.e. more likely to tumble and dump all its energy on the target).

* Amax is cheaper as well, which is nice. That plastic nose is cheaper to manufacture, therefore Hornady can make a good profit at a lower price point.

* Your 24" barrel has plenty of length to get 123 grainers going at 2650fps. That is a very attractive speed for a very solid ballistic performer.

* In the SMK's, the 107gr is Sierra's BEST designed bullet, across nearly their entire bullet line. It has a form factor of 0.94, which is super low, rivaling Berger and JLK VLDs. This is VERY impressive for a tangent ogive design. For pure target shooting at 600 yds out of 20" or shorter barrels, this might be the perfect Grendel bullet as Rootshot suggests. At least I'm hopefully it will be a good bullet for me.

This are my humble thoughts. I could be all wrong

 

[Rootshot]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Try the 120 Nosler BT for hunting.
</div></div>

Living in a state that doesn't allow lead bullets for hunting, I opted for 120gr Barnes TSX bullets. Accuracy is completely acceptable for hunting and it did a great job on a wild pig I recently shot. I'm moving to the 120gr Barnes TTSX since they ensure expansion at lower velocities.

--Rootshot

 

[MrLebowski]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Ya I was thinking that the 123s would probably be the way to go because of the higher velocities you can get out of them. Now that you mention it I think it is the throat that's different and not the shoulder, so regular 6.5 dies should be fine? The reason I asked the question in the first place was when I was looking at the dies redding offered for the grendel on gunstop.com and they have a standard 6.5 grendel die and they have a 6.5 Grendel Type S die. Does anyone know what the difference between the two is?

 

[Rootshot]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrLebowski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they have a standard 6.4 grendel die and they have a 6.5 Grendel Type S die. Does anyone know what the difference between the two is? </div></div>

Type S dies use bushings that can can micro-adjust neck tension. Unless you are an advanced reloader or accuracy nut, this is probably not necessary. I ended up with a Forster 6.5 Grendel die set that produces great ammo. Total indicator runout of loaded rounds is consistently under .003".

--Rootshot

 

[eleaf]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrLebowski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya I was thinking that the 123s would probably be the way to go because of the higher velocities you can get out of them. Now that you mention it I think it is the throat that's different and not the shoulder, so regular 6.5 dies should be fine? The reason I asked the question in the first place was when I was looking at the dies redding offered for the grendel on gunstop.com and they have a standard 6.5 grendel die and they have a 6.5 Grendel Type S die. Does anyone know what the difference between the two is? </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Preamble:</span>
Before I write this short dissertation on Grendel loading, buy yourself the LE Wilson Headspace/OAL Gauge.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=277624

It will save you a TON of heartache. Check every piece of resized brass in this gauge. If it does not fit, it will not work correctly in your rifle.

It will save lots of time completing rounds (or making dummy rounds) and trying to chamber them in you gun to make sure you have the sweet spot on your die.

I would also recommend the VERY EXCELLENT Sheridan Function Gauge (it tests complete rounds, not just brass), though since you have a 264lbr, rather than a Grendel, I don't know if it will work correctly for you because of the throat differences. It's essentially a 6.5 Grendel chamber set at the minimum specs.
https://www.alexanderarms.com/item/13/160/65GrendelAmmunitionGauge.htm

These 2 gauges will save you LOTS of time. Every piece of sized brass gets checked in the Wilson gauge, then every loaded round is checked in the Sheridan Function gauge. If it doesn't fit like a glove, the bullet is pulled using the very excellent RCBS press mounted collet bullet puller and 6.5mm collet.

Alexander Arms' 6.5 Grendel has what's called a compound angle throat designed to shoot a wide array of bullets very accurately (bullet lengths in .264 vary greatly and can become very long). It also ensures that getting the correct shoulder bump is crucial as well as a pain in the ass (it took me nearly 60 dummy rounds to find the sweet spot between 2 sizing die sets). The 264lbr is the same round with the same dimensions, except the Grendel name cannot be used (because its trademarked) and 264lbr chambers have a standard throat angle. The ammo is the same, as are the dies.


<span style="font-weight: bold">Dies:</span>
I have the Lee dies (I bought them with my Alexander Arms upper) which I replaced really quickly with the standard Redding dies which are, IMO, much better. I then decided to replace those dies with the S-Type and bushings which results in MUCH less stress on the brass around the neck and a more uniform sizing (longer brass life - an important factor with Grendel brass). I also use the Redding competition seater die which has a micrometer and is awesome.

Personally, I would get the Redding S-Type die for sizing. It's expensive, but VERY GOOD. Read the directions to determine the correct Bushings. Essentially, take a LOADED ROUND and measure the case neck just below the mouth (a micrometer is best, though a set of good calipers will also do the job - if using calipers, take multiple measurements to make sure you're measuring accurately). Take that measurement, and subtract .001-.003 and buy the corresponding bushings. Mine measured in at .291, so I bought .288-.290 size bushings.
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...tring=9315***731***702***9170***&brandId=1526

You can also measure the neck wall of a new piece of brass, double that number, then add .264. When you get that number, subtract .001-.003 and buy those bushings. This measurement MUST be taken with a micrometer. Calipers are simply too clumsy for this operation.

Either measurement will get you to the same place.

The Redding Competition set (Type-S sizer and Micrometer seater) can be bought here (though the set is out of stock until 1.20.2011).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=943523

You can buy the Type-S die and seater separately (though the seater too is out of stock until the end of the month).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=754248
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=413448

I have also read that the Forster Micrometer seating die is very good, and about 1/2 the cost of the Redding. YMMV.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=710537

A Redding Type-S sizer and a Forster Micrometer seating die would make a good set, methinks. If I wasn't in love with Redding Competition seating dies (I use them for every caliber I load for), I probably would have bought the Forster.


<span style="font-weight: bold">Brass:</span>
Do yourself a favor.

<span style="font-weight: bold">DON'T buy Lapua brass</span>. Buy Alexander Arms brass <span style="font-weight: bold">DIRECTLY FROM ALEXANDER ARMS</span>. It is made by Lapua (making it Lapua brass with a different head stamp) and is over $20 cheaper per 100. That's a big difference. Don't buy it at Midway as they have a significant mark up on AA brass.
https://www.alexanderarms.com/item/13/43/65GrendelBrass.htm

The only difference is the head stamp and that it comes in a bag rather than a nice Lapua plastic box. A plastic box is not worth over $20. Even the protection factor is not worth it as you will have to resize before loading anyways to set the shoulders correctly, making any potential bent mouths from transport via bag a moot point (as a note, I didn't have a single bent case mouth with my bag(s) of AA arms brass anyways).

I have both Lapua and AA brass and I can tell you they are identical in every respect except for head stamp and price.


<span style="font-weight: bold">Powder:</span>
As far as powders are concerned, Accurate 2520 is the shiznit for the Grendel. Buy it. Use it.

Others that reportedly work very well are Win 748 and Hodgdon BL-(C)2. You can use the BL-(C)2 with ALL bullets between 90 and 130 grains (according to AA's data) No matter what, as others have noted, make sure to use ball powders as stick powders are too large to fit in the small Grendel brass and still give you an adequate load.


<span style="font-weight: bold">Primers:</span>
Use CCI 450 Small Rifle <span style="font-weight: bold">MAGNUM</span> primers. In my Grendel, an AA Entry upper w/ 20" Shilen barrel, Bench Rest primers burnt too quickly and not hot enough, causing short stroke issues (wouldn't chamber a new round). The second I made the switch to the Magnum primers, <span style="font-weight: bold">booyah!</span>; I was in business. Also, Alexander Arms has CCI 450 listed for all loads in their load data. AFAIK, CCI is the only manufacturer to make magnum primers for Small Rifle.


<span style="font-weight: bold">Bullets:</span>
I currently have only used the Lapua 123, though I have a bunch of 108 Scenars, as well as some 123 Amax and 123 SMK.

(123 Scenar) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=175131

(108 Scenar) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=171280

(123 Amax) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=840294

(123 SMK) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=1482236910


For hunting, the 120 Nosler BT and 129 Hornady SST are reportedly the cat's ass for putting down white tail.

(120 Nosler BT) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=708470

(Hornady 129 SST) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=612664


Don't know about short range yote killers, though I imagine that the 100 grain Nosler BT will work great, as well as the 95 grain Hornady Vmax.

(100 Nosler BT) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=667545

(95 Vmax) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=668377


The Swift Scirocco 130 Spitzer Boat Tail has an insane BC (.571), but I have never used them.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=672701


<span style="font-weight: bold">My Current Load:</span>
Brass: Alexander Arms
Bullet: Lapua 123 Scenar
Powder: 30.7 of Accurate 2520 (This is max load according to AA, work up appropriately).
Primer: CCI 450 Small Rifle Magnum
COAL: 2.260"

With this load I was hitting 700 yard targets my very first time shooting at anything even approaching that range, on my very first time shooting with this rifle.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Load Data:</span>
Alexander Arms (PDF) has the most complete data in terms of available bullets and powders, though it has various holes that should really be filled (though I won't be holding my breath). One word of caution: DO NOT LISTEN TO AA WHEN THEY SAY IN THEIR DATA THAT NEW BRASS DOES NOT NEED TO BE SIZED. THEY ARE FULL OF SHIT. Size EVERY piece of brass.
https://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel_reloading.pdf

Hornady 8th Edition also now has 6.5 Grendel loads.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?pr...edium=reloading

You can have Hornady's 123 Amax data free here. It was sent to me directly from Hornady a day or 2 before their new edition of the manual was released. It is identical to the load data in their new edition. One warning, however, is that the rifle they used as a tester was an AA upper with a 14.5" barrel. The velocities given in their data won't be close to what you can get from your 24" monster. I would estimate your rifle will be AT LEAST 250 fps faster at the top end. Perhaps a bit more.

Hodgdon also has FREE data, though it too has holes (many of them) and is limited in bullet selection.
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Look at page 3 of this thread. There is a metric shit load of Grendel loading data that came (mostly) from the now defunct 65grendel site.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1748390&page=3

As always, work up appropriately. One thing you will notice, however (especially with AA data), is the there isn't much difference in powder charge between min and max loads. Most are less than 1 grain, so there isn't much need to drop too much from the max. Stay within the parameters set out in the published data and you should be good.


<span style="font-weight: bold">Factory Ammo:</span>
If you'd like to test some factory ammo BEFORE you try to handload some (not a bad idea at all), try the ammo from Alexander Arms (the 123 Lapua Scenar is awesome). It uses AA brass, so you can kill 2 birds with one financial stone and acquiring some brass.

Hornady 123 Amax is good and cheap (THIS USES HORNADY BRASS)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=787955

AA Lapua 123 Scenar
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=769925

AA Nosler BT
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=972333

AA Hornady 129 SST
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=767338

AA Speer 90 TNT
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=563014

AA Swift Scirocco 130
https://www.alexanderarms.com/item/12/89/65Grendel130SwiftSciroccoammunition.htm

Wolf also makes VERY CHEAP (less than $1 per round) ammo using brass cases and boxer primers (meaning you can use it to reload), though I don't know that it's anything better than plinking ammo, and I don't know about he quality of the brass. I don't use plinking ammo (only match grade), so I've never shot it. You can find it on Midway, though it is often out of stock because it's cheap (for Grendel ammo it's cheap).

Have fun!

 

[DHDeal]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

I have seen some very good velocities with XBR8208 and the 107SMK and 108 Scenar. I got into the low 2700 range with very very good es and sd numbers. I used Rem 7 1/2's and CCI450's. Velocity was pretty much the same. I will try the Wolf SRM's when I get my rifle back from AA.

The 8208 is a very small granule and flows very well from a measure and you can cram a bunch in the AA brass. Don;t rule it out.....

 

[MrLebowski]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Thanks for the extensive writeup their Eleaf, I knew that the AA brass was made by Lapua but diff packaging, I can get Lapua for $85 a 100 from Precision Firearms but the AA brass is still cheaper. They also make their own 6.5 Grendel ammo, any one heard anything about them?

 

[eleaf]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrLebowski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the extensive writeup their Eleaf, I knew that the AA brass was made by Lapua but diff packaging, I can get Lapua for $85 a 100 from Precision Firearms but the AA brass is still cheaper. They also make their own 6.5 Grendel ammo, any one heard anything about them? </div></div>

I've never used their ammo, but it is about $5 cheaper than the equivalent ammo from AA if you buy it at Midway, and about $5 more expensive than buying it direct from Alexander Arms (I specifically priced the 123 Lapua Scenar).

The AA load is very close to max load with Accurate 2520 according to the velocities listed in their load data (they list factory round velocities in their load data for comparison). In fact, I would bet that it is the same or very close (though don't hold me to that as I really don't know - for all I know they have some special sauce in their factory ammo).

I wouldn't, however, get in the habit of buying Grendel factory ammo for 2 reasons.

1) It's expensive.

Actually it isn't too bad if you price it against something like Federal GMM ammo for .308 (generally about $36-$40 for a box of 20), but unless you shoot Hornady or Wolf ammo, you're still paying $1.50 or more per round.

2) Availability is spotty.

Your best bet is to either buy a few boxes so you have some sort of measure against which to calibrate your own hand loads (stocking up on brass while you're at it), or just suck it up and buy brass new and start with hand loads.

I might start with 200 pieces at minimum.

I started with 500 pieces of new brass (200 AA and 300 Lapua - didn't understand that AA was Lapua at the time and could have saved myself about $70) plus the 60 from factory ammo (and that doesn't count the box of Hornady ammo I have with Hornady brass).

Have fun.

 

[jbailey]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Great posts Eleaf. Thank much.

 

[eleaf]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great posts Eleaf. Thank much. </div></div>

I won't claim myself some form of expert or anything, But I've read more about the Grendel and reloading for it (and reloading in general) in the last month or so than I care to relate.

Anything I spread here on those subjects is little more than regurgitating and synthesizing those materials.

Well that mixed with some very frustrating experiences getting my Grendel reloading getup in order!

I really think the Grendel is the ideal AR round. It has everything the .308 has, only in a smaller package. Very little recoil, very excellent ballistics and available bullets, and plenty of punch. I figure that everything I've learned about that round is worth spreading for others so they needn't spend as much time and effort finding it as I did.

 

[Rootshot]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

One additional thought on Grendel Ammo. Consider the loaded Hornady 123gr AMAX rounds. For sake of discussion, let's say you purchase 5 boxes (100 rounds total) at $20 per box ($100 total). If you look at the cost of components separately, 100 Hornady cases will be about $65.00 and a box of 100 123gr AMAX bullets will be about $25.00. Not counting primers, powder, and time, this means that the premium you pay for 100 loaded Hornady rounds is only about $10 ($.10 per round for primer, powder, and labor). Keep and reload the brass

--Rootshot

 

[High Binder]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Well I shoot 107 SMK, 108 Lapua, 123 SMK and the 123AMAX out of mine and all do well.

Everyone has already covered everything I would have said so I don't have much to offer except to tell you to buy AA brass.

 

[eleaf]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rootshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One additional thought on Grendel Ammo. Consider the loaded Hornady 123gr AMAX rounds. For sake of discussion, let's say you purchase 5 boxes (100 rounds total) at $20 per box ($100 total). If you look at the cost of components separately, 100 Hornady cases will be about $65.00 and a box of 100 123gr AMAX bullets will be about $25.00. Not counting primers, powder, and time, this means that the premium you pay for 100 loaded Hornady rounds is only about $10 ($.10 per round for primer, powder, and labor). Keep and reload the brass

--Rootshot </div></div>

In my reading and peripheral experience, Hornady brass is too soft for an auto loader. The brass doesn't last near as long as something like Lapua. Not only because of the abuse taken from the gun itself, but from having to full length resize everytime. Using a bushing type sizer will help, but, on average, Hornady brass still won't get as much use as AA brass and standard sizing dies.

 

[Rootshot]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Jury is still out on how tough Hornady brass is. Lapua is the king. I've gotten 6 to 8 loads out of my Lapua brass and, although some primer pockets are a bit loose, it's still going strong. I always full length size and agree that a bushing could reduce the 2% or so shrinkage I see from split necks.

--Rootshot

 

[BIGSHOT]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

130 gr berger vld hunting bullets ,30 gr aa 2520,2500 fps,new aa brass,cci mag primers
1/2 moa at 200 yds hitting 3 to 4" rocks 600 to 930 yds(ran out of scope adj) first time out shooting over 200 yds

these are hot loads

aa side charging upper,28 " lw barrel 8.5 twist bbl
had it up to 2550 with 29.5 gr of the old aa 2520 but ran out and new lot slower and not quite as accurate

 

[MrLebowski]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Thanks for all the info guys, my upper won't be in for a few more weeks I'm guessing but I'd like to have all the supplies here and ready when it shows up. I've decided to go with benchmark for the 95gr Vmaxs and AA2520 for the 123 SMKs, I wanted 123 Amaxs but didn't see them instock and midway shows them backordered till like june or somthing so SMKs it is.
Thanks for all the advise, I'll post up some pics once I get it.

I also got a .300WM on the way that should be here today or tomarrow so I need to work on load workup for it first but it's pretty easy finding out what ppl are haveing good results with the 300. Whith my 300 I'm gonna end up with 3 different loads, one for the 208 Amax, one for the 125 Nosler, and one for the Hornady 150SP (cause I got 500 free so why not). I'm thinking the 125 for varments(yotes), the 150s for general plinking and larger game, and the 208s for long distance target and thoes yotes that are way way out there. I have a barn loft that I modified to hunt coyotes out of that overlooks my field and have shots on my property as far as 900-1k and even farther if I shoot them in the field behind ours. I still need to work on making some steel targets for LR shooting though.

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[DBrace]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

tag for the excellent info

 

[slaxer07]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Brace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tag for the excellent info</div></div>

Register and tag for excellent info!

Just got a 24" grendel barrel from BHW myself. I have been researching reloading for the past few months and was going to start with my 6.8 because the grendel kind of scared me as a newbie, but afer reading this site I changed the plans and the grendle will be first.

Thanks guys

 

[Moof]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Brace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tag for the excellent info </div></div>

Me too!

 

[jbailey]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rootshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One additional thought on Grendel Ammo. Consider the loaded Hornady 123gr AMAX rounds. For sake of discussion, let's say you purchase 5 boxes (100 rounds total) at $20 per box ($100 total). If you look at the cost of components separately, 100 Hornady cases will be about $65.00 and a box of 100 123gr AMAX bullets will be about $25.00. Not counting primers, powder, and time, this means that the premium you pay for 100 loaded Hornady rounds is only about $10 ($.10 per round for primer, powder, and labor). Keep and reload the brass

--Rootshot </div></div>

For anyone thinking about going down the buy Hornady 123gr AMax factory ammo, shoot it and reload its brass as Rootshot describes, I can add the following data (as it is what I'm doing):

I have shot ~50 rounds of it so far for (1) barrel break-in, (2) scope zeroing and (3) groups. I can report that its averaging 2475fps out of my 18" Satern in 30degree weather, with a ES of about 30 and a SD of 15. It is grouping at 0.5 to 1.0 moa at 100yds pretty reliably (I haven't shot one group above 1.1moa, with several in the 0.5 range).

I had it out at 300 to 500 yds against steel and it performed well but the wind was dead so I'm not really able to say much about its potential at range. I might shoot it this weekend down at MCB Quantico at 1000yds.

If you are used to shooting 5.56 out of an AR, I think you will be very happy with the Grendel. Watch the 308 bolt gun guys freak out when your AR outperforms their 175gr SMK .... Sssshhhh, don't tell them its 6.5

 

[andymine]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

123gr amax 30.5gr aa2520

 

[MacBookProAR]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

28.8gr Western TAC
123gr Lapua Scenar
Lapua Brass
Rem 7 1/2 br primers
2885fps

Shoots amazing out to 1000 yds

I have a 24 inch 1:875 twist Satern barrel with a YHM Phantom 7.62 suppressor and use a Noveske switch block to shoot single shot and save some brass life.

 

[blue_ridge]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

I have a Grendel that I've only shot factory AA ammo through so far. But I did read several Grendel "experts" on the old 65grendel site that said AA2520 with 120SMK was a "go to" load and hard to beat for overall consistency.

 

[Drifter™]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

I have a good supply of CCI #41 primers, which I think might be similar to CCI 450 SRM primers except the 41's are harder (to prevent slam-fires in AR platform).

Any reason not to use CCI #41's in the Grendel?

Thanks

 

[jbailey]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Yeah, I'm interested in #41 in Grendel as well. I have several thousand for .223Rem loading and would love to use them in the 6.5 as well.

I am now at about 150 rounds of factory 123gr AMax and continue to get excellent results - Hornady has done a great job with these loads. In fact I'm not sure I can better than them with my handloads. I have shot them for paper groups at 100 to 400, against steel out to 500 and down at Quantico to 1000 (limited data here). It shoots sub-moa thru it all. We had a 0.46" 5-shot group at 325 on paper with these factory loads in pretty heavy wind conditions. I have shot a lot of heavy 223Rem at long-range, and I have to say, Grendel easily outperforms it everywhere except recoil/follow-up speed (its tough to top a precision AR in 223Rem in that catagory).

Excellent cartridge!

 

[eleaf]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter_1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a good supply of CCI #41 primers, which I think might be similar to CCI 450 SRM primers except the 41's are harder (to prevent slam-fires in AR platform).

Any reason not to use CCI #41's in the Grendel?

Thanks </div></div>

I couldn't get my Grendel to cycle correctly with normal SR primers. If the hardness of the primer is the only difference (I.e., the burn created by it is the same/very similar to an average SR primer), you may end up with the same problem. My issues were solved quickly when I switched to Magnum primers because they burn slower and slightly hotter.

If you are using ball powders (virtually all of the recommended powders for the Grendel are ball type - AA 2520; Win 748 et al), you will almost certainly want to use magnum primers anyways.

I'm not saying that they can't work, but even if they do I'm skeptical that they will be as consistent as using magnum primers, especially in colder weather.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

The original AA Grendel handload data actually calls for a SRM or #41 primer with the 123gr Scenar load. The whole Grendel experience for me, has been amazing.

 

[eleaf]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The original AA Grendel handload data actually calls for a SRM or #41 primer with the 123gr Scenar load. The whole Grendel experience for me, has been amazing. </div></div>

Don't know about the original AA data (I've never seen it), but I do know that the most recent available data from AA (available on their web site) calls for CCI 450 Magnum SR primers in ALL of their loads.

 

[Drifter™]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

I was thinking #41's are magnum primers, but with a harder cup. But I've been wrong before...

In a 6.8mm, the #41's produce ~50 fps more velocity versus benchrest primers.

 

[eleaf]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter_1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking #41's are magnum primers, but with a harder cup. But I've been wrong before...

In a 6.8mm, the #41's produce ~50 fps more velocity versus benchrest primers. </div></div>

It's not any extra velocity that the magnum might provide which made the difference in my rifle, but that it ignites hotter and a bit slower.

With SR primers, it was blowing its wad too quickly causing some short stroking.

 

[Drifter™]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter_1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking #41's are magnum primers, but with a harder cup. But I've been wrong before...

In a 6.8mm, the #41's produce ~50 fps more velocity versus benchrest primers. </div></div>

It's not any extra velocity that the magnum might provide which made the difference in my rifle, but that it ignites hotter and a bit slower.

With SR primers, it was blowing its wad too quickly causing some short stroking. </div></div>


What's your experience with #41's in the Grendel?


Edit- Just checked CCI's website, It indicates that same reloading data for magnum primers should be used with #41's:

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30

 

[eleaf]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter_1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter_1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking #41's are magnum primers, but with a harder cup. But I've been wrong before...

In a 6.8mm, the #41's produce ~50 fps more velocity versus benchrest primers. </div></div>

It's not any extra velocity that the magnum might provide which made the difference in my rifle, but that it ignites hotter and a bit slower.

With SR primers, it was blowing its wad too quickly causing some short stroking. </div></div>


What's your experience with #41's in the Grendel?


Edit- Just checked CCI's website, It indicates that same reloading data for magnum primers should be used with #41's:

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30 </div></div>

I don't have any experience with that primer. I started with Remington 7 1/2 primers, had my short stroking issues, switched to CCI 450 Magnum primers and that's all she wrote.

 

[MacBookProAR]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter_1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter_1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking #41's are magnum primers, but with a harder cup. But I've been wrong before...

In a 6.8mm, the #41's produce ~50 fps more velocity versus benchrest primers. </div></div>

It's not any extra velocity that the magnum might provide which made the difference in my rifle, but that it ignites hotter and a bit slower.

With SR primers, it was blowing its wad too quickly causing some short stroking. </div></div>


What's your experience with #41's in the Grendel?


Edit- Just checked CCI's website, It indicates that same reloading data for magnum primers should be used with #41's:

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30 </div></div>

I don't have any experience with that primer. I started with Remington 7 1/2 primers, had my short stroking issues, switched to CCI 450 Magnum primers and that's all she wrote.

</div></div>

I use Rem 7 1/2 primers with no issues at all. I shoot consistent at 430yds out to 1015yds with no huge changes in velocity. Tested a group of 6 for speeds and all were within 15 fps of each other.

I'm using 28.8gr of TAC and am at 2585fps out of a 24" barrel

 

[EWP]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

The #41 primer is indeed a SRM primer, it and the CCI-450 have the exact same spec's.

 

[Tactical30]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Stick with the CCI #450 Primers or the Rem 7 1/2 Primers for the Grendel.

 

[Drifter™]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stick with the CCI #450 Primers or the Rem 7 1/2 Primers for the Grendel. </div></div>

Why not CCI #41...?

 

[superde]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Tag

 

[country888]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

tag for great info!

 

[MacBookProAR]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

Just some real world data from shooting today.

I tried the CCI 450 magnum primers with my current load as well as the rem 7 1/2 bench rest primers.

10 shots of each across the chrono
CCI 450 had a 33fps spread and average of 2668 fps (2687 hi -2654 lo)
Rem 7 1/2 br had a 14fps spread and average of 2664fps (2671 hi - 2657 lo)

Not sure if any of you are shooting longer ranges but I shoot out to 1000yds and that extra 19fps spread can make a huge difference at those ranges.

I shoot 28.8gr Western TAC (max recommended load), 123gr lapua scenar, lapua brass, 2.26 oal, and Rem 7 1/2 bench rest primers.

I also had significant opening of my groups with the CCI 450 magnum primers at just 100 yds.

24" satern barrel, 1:875 twist
Noveske switch block turned to single shot
YHM Phantom 7.62 suppressor

 

[CORNHOLIO1]

Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys

ELEAF. I believe Wolf also makes small rifle magnum primers. I am gong to try them here shortly. Also, 95gr Vmax are problematic in a Grendel. At least when they are at the specified OAL. They need to be seated much deeper. Approx 2.15 or 2.17!!!! Otherwise they will stick in the barrel. Vmax bullets have a wierd ogive.

Anyways, I am trying to find another varmit bullet (inexpensive) that doesn't have the same vmax issues.