Re: A Few Questions For The 6.5 Grendel Guys
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrLebowski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya I was thinking that the 123s would probably be the way to go because of the higher velocities you can get out of them. Now that you mention it I think it is the throat that's different and not the shoulder, so regular 6.5 dies should be fine? The reason I asked the question in the first place was when I was looking at the dies redding offered for the grendel on gunstop.com and they have a standard 6.5 grendel die and they have a 6.5 Grendel Type S die. Does anyone know what the difference between the two is? </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Preamble:</span>
Before I write this short dissertation on Grendel loading, buy yourself the LE Wilson Headspace/OAL Gauge.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=277624
It will save you a TON of heartache. Check every piece of resized brass in this gauge. If it does not fit, it will not work correctly in your rifle.
It will save lots of time completing rounds (or making dummy rounds) and trying to chamber them in you gun to make sure you have the sweet spot on your die.
I would also recommend the VERY EXCELLENT Sheridan Function Gauge (it tests complete rounds, not just brass), though since you have a 264lbr, rather than a Grendel, I don't know if it will work correctly for you because of the throat differences. It's essentially a 6.5 Grendel chamber set at the minimum specs.
https://www.alexanderarms.com/item/13/160/65GrendelAmmunitionGauge.htm
These 2 gauges will save you LOTS of time. Every piece of sized brass gets checked in the Wilson gauge, then every loaded round is checked in the Sheridan Function gauge. If it doesn't fit like a glove, the bullet is pulled using the very excellent
RCBS press mounted collet bullet puller and
6.5mm collet.
Alexander Arms' 6.5 Grendel has what's called a compound angle throat designed to shoot a wide array of bullets very accurately (bullet lengths in .264 vary greatly and can become very long). It also ensures that getting the correct shoulder bump is crucial as well as a pain in the ass (it took me nearly 60 dummy rounds to find the sweet spot between 2 sizing die sets). The 264lbr is the same round with the same dimensions, except the Grendel name cannot be used (because its trademarked) and 264lbr chambers have a standard throat angle. The ammo is the same, as are the dies.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Dies:</span>
I have the Lee dies (I bought them with my Alexander Arms upper) which I replaced really quickly with the standard Redding dies which are, IMO, much better. I then decided to replace those dies with the S-Type and bushings which results in MUCH less stress on the brass around the neck and a more uniform sizing (longer brass life - an important factor with Grendel brass). I also use the Redding competition seater die which has a micrometer and is awesome.
Personally, I would get the Redding S-Type die for sizing. It's expensive, but VERY GOOD. Read the directions to determine the correct Bushings. Essentially, take a LOADED ROUND and measure the case neck just below the mouth (a micrometer is best, though a set of good calipers will also do the job - if using calipers, take multiple measurements to make sure you're measuring accurately). Take that measurement, and subtract .001-.003 and buy the corresponding bushings. Mine measured in at .291, so I bought .288-.290 size bushings.
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...tring=9315***731***702***9170***&brandId=1526
You can also measure the neck wall of a new piece of brass, double that number, then add .264. When you get that number, subtract .001-.003 and buy those bushings. This measurement MUST be taken with a micrometer. Calipers are simply too clumsy for this operation.
Either measurement will get you to the same place.
The Redding Competition set (Type-S sizer and Micrometer seater) can be bought here (though the set is out of stock until 1.20.2011).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=943523
You can buy the Type-S die and seater separately (though the seater too is out of stock until the end of the month).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=754248
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=413448
I have also read that the Forster Micrometer seating die is very good, and about 1/2 the cost of the Redding. YMMV.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=710537
A Redding Type-S sizer and a Forster Micrometer seating die would make a good set, methinks. If I wasn't in love with Redding Competition seating dies (I use them for every caliber I load for), I probably would have bought the Forster.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Brass:</span>
Do yourself a favor.
<span style="font-weight: bold">DON'T buy Lapua brass</span>. Buy Alexander Arms brass <span style="font-weight: bold">DIRECTLY FROM ALEXANDER ARMS</span>. It is made by Lapua (making it Lapua brass with a different head stamp) and is over $20 cheaper per 100. That's a big difference. Don't buy it at Midway as they have a significant mark up on AA brass.
https://www.alexanderarms.com/item/13/43/65GrendelBrass.htm
The only difference is the head stamp and that it comes in a bag rather than a nice Lapua plastic box. A plastic box is not worth over $20. Even the protection factor is not worth it as you will have to resize before loading anyways to set the shoulders correctly, making any potential bent mouths from transport via bag a moot point (as a note, I didn't have a single bent case mouth with my bag(s) of AA arms brass anyways).
I have both Lapua and AA brass and I can tell you they are identical in every respect except for head stamp and price.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Powder:</span>
As far as powders are concerned, Accurate 2520 is the shiznit for the Grendel. Buy it. Use it.
Others that reportedly work very well are Win 748 and Hodgdon BL-(C)2. You can use the BL-(C)2 with ALL bullets between 90 and 130 grains (according to AA's data) No matter what, as others have noted, make sure to use ball powders as stick powders are too large to fit in the small Grendel brass and still give you an adequate load.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Primers:</span>
Use CCI 450 Small Rifle <span style="font-weight: bold">MAGNUM</span> primers. In my Grendel, an
AA Entry upper w/ 20" Shilen barrel, Bench Rest primers burnt too quickly and not hot enough, causing short stroke issues (wouldn't chamber a new round). The second I made the switch to the Magnum primers, <span style="font-weight: bold">booyah!</span>; I was in business. Also, Alexander Arms has CCI 450 listed for all loads in their load data. AFAIK, CCI is the only manufacturer to make magnum primers for Small Rifle.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Bullets:</span>
I currently have only used the Lapua 123, though I have a bunch of 108 Scenars, as well as some 123 Amax and 123 SMK.
(123 Scenar)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=175131
(108 Scenar)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=171280
(123 Amax)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=840294
(123 SMK)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=1482236910
For hunting, the 120 Nosler BT and 129 Hornady SST are reportedly the cat's ass for putting down white tail.
(120 Nosler BT)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=708470
(Hornady 129 SST)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=612664
Don't know about short range yote killers, though I imagine that the 100 grain Nosler BT will work great, as well as the 95 grain Hornady Vmax.
(100 Nosler BT)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=667545
(95 Vmax)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=668377
The Swift Scirocco 130 Spitzer Boat Tail has an insane BC (.571), but I have never used them.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=672701
<span style="font-weight: bold">My Current Load:</span>
Brass: Alexander Arms
Bullet: Lapua 123 Scenar
Powder: 30.7 of Accurate 2520 (This is max load according to AA, work up appropriately).
Primer: CCI 450 Small Rifle Magnum
COAL: 2.260"
With this load I was hitting 700 yard targets my very first time shooting at anything even approaching that range, on my very first time shooting with this rifle.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Load Data:</span>
Alexander Arms (PDF) has the most complete data in terms of available bullets and powders, though it has various holes that should really be filled (though I won't be holding my breath). One word of caution: DO NOT LISTEN TO AA WHEN THEY SAY IN THEIR DATA THAT NEW BRASS DOES NOT NEED TO BE SIZED. THEY ARE FULL OF SHIT. Size EVERY piece of brass.
https://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel_reloading.pdf
Hornady 8th Edition also now has 6.5 Grendel loads.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?pr...edium=reloading
You can have Hornady's 123 Amax data free
here. It was sent to me directly from Hornady a day or 2 before their new edition of the manual was released. It is identical to the load data in their new edition. One warning, however, is that the rifle they used as a tester was an AA upper with a 14.5" barrel. The velocities given in their data won't be close to what you can get from your 24" monster. I would estimate your rifle will be AT LEAST 250 fps faster at the top end. Perhaps a bit more.
Hodgdon also has FREE data, though it too has holes (many of them) and is limited in bullet selection.
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
Look at page 3 of this thread. There is a metric shit load of Grendel loading data that came (mostly) from the now defunct 65grendel site.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1748390&page=3
As always, work up appropriately. One thing you will notice, however (especially with AA data), is the there isn't much difference in powder charge between min and max loads. Most are less than 1 grain, so there isn't much need to drop too much from the max. Stay within the parameters set out in the published data and you should be good.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Factory Ammo:</span>
If you'd like to test some factory ammo BEFORE you try to handload some (not a bad idea at all), try the ammo from Alexander Arms (the 123 Lapua Scenar is awesome). It uses AA brass, so you can kill 2 birds with one financial stone and acquiring some brass.
Hornady 123 Amax is good and cheap (THIS USES HORNADY BRASS)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=787955
AA Lapua 123 Scenar
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=769925
AA Nosler BT
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=972333
AA Hornady 129 SST
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=767338
AA Speer 90 TNT
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=563014
AA Swift Scirocco 130
https://www.alexanderarms.com/item/12/89/65Grendel130SwiftSciroccoammunition.htm
Wolf also makes VERY CHEAP (less than $1 per round) ammo using brass cases and boxer primers (meaning you can use it to reload), though I don't know that it's anything better than plinking ammo, and I don't know about he quality of the brass. I don't use plinking ammo (only match grade), so I've never shot it. You can find it on Midway, though it is often out of stock because it's cheap (for Grendel ammo it's cheap).
Have fun!
</div></div>
Eleaf,
I think this information you posted should be a sticky.. a ton of information gathered in such short time.
My story,
I purchased a CA-15 chambered in 6.5Grendel, someone from another forum made me some reloads with some sierra match bullets and AA arms brass, well it turns out that the first range session was a joke.. I used the reloads and upon chambering the first round the bolt and round got stuck! So I was baffled, after a busted knuckle and a few curse words I was back in action, I chambered another round.. what do you know.. it also did the same thing.. well Luckily I had some AA 130gr Swifts still left over and I tried those and while they weren't superbly accurate they worked and cycled fine.. about 60 rounds to be exact.. well I had ordered my Redding comp bushing die set, bullets, powders and such.. before I attempted to reload I searched and came to this thread. I am glad I did , I ordered both gauges and what do you know.. the reloaded rounds did not fit either one of the gauges, they would not go all the way in.. it really upset me but I won't speak bad of the guy or mention his name, however., I wonder how the hell he managed to make them cycle in his AR. Thanks for the information.
-Juanjo322
