Accuracy International Picture Thread

#13,901
In one of my winter courses, a guy sheared off his TRG 22 bolt handle.
I let him use a Surgeon 18” loaner.

It’s weird, because I’ve shot a lot of TRG 42 in .338 LM in Finland in the cold, and never saw a TRG fail like that.

Here’s the rifle that had the bolt knob shear off:

IMG_6832_zpsuwiiaap3.jpg


Day 2 brought us some nicer conditions:

IMG_7602_zpshanmmp3n.jpg
 
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#13,902
LRRPF52 said:
In one of my winter courses, a guy sheared off his TRG 22 bolt handle.
I let him use a Surgeon 18” loaner.

It’s weird, because I’ve shot a lot of TRG 42 in .338 LM in Finland in the cold, and never saw a TRG fail like that.

Here’s the rifle that had the bolt knob shear off:

IMG_6832_zpsuwiiaap3.jpg


Day 2 brought us some nicer conditions:

IMG_7602_zpshanmmp3n.jpg
Click to expand...
What temp was it when the Sako knob sheared off?
 
#13,903
It was below freezing. The nearest town, Price temps were in the 25˚-27˚ F for lows, but the range complex is much higher elevation (6300-6600ft).

It wasn’t bad compared to many other places I’ve been, but it was cold.

IMG_67871_zps0jubwk46.jpg


IMG_71051_zpsga7emc1t.jpg
IMG_71521_zps9wsc2wop.jpg


The guy who sheared the bolt off his TRG 22 was an 11B who had served with 10th Mountain. I actually saw him and his brother first as a team at Sniper Adventure Challenge down in New Mexico in 2013, where his brother went down pretty hard, needed IV therapy. That was in opposite weather conditions.

11Bs can be hard on gear, right there with Marines. He really seemed to enjoy low-crawling in the snow.
 
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#13,904
LRRPF52 said:
It was below freezing. The nearest town, Price temps were in the 25˚-27˚ F for lows, but the range complex is much higher elevation.
Click to expand...
Not -27°F, just a range between 25°F & 27°F, right? So could be maybe 0° to 15°F where you were?

As you allude too, surprising that the bolt knob decided to let go…maybe just metal fatigue? Someone on SH broke an AI bolt handle somehow and posted a pic.
 
#13,905
LRRPF52 said:
It was below freezing. The nearest town, Price temps were in the 25˚-27˚ F for lows, but the range complex is much higher elevation (6300-6600ft).

It wasn’t bad compared to many other places I’ve been, but it was cold.

IMG_67871_zps0jubwk46.jpg


IMG_71051_zpsga7emc1t.jpg
IMG_71521_zps9wsc2wop.jpg


The guy who sheared the bolt off his TRG 22 was an 11B who had served with 10th Mountain. I actually saw him and his brother first as a team at Sniper Adventure Challenge down in New Mexico in 2013, where his brother went down pretty hard, needed IV therapy. That was in opposite weather conditions.

11Bs can be hard on gear, right there with Marines. He really seemed to enjoy low-crawling in the snow.
Click to expand...
Is this in Utah? I recognize your username. You helped me build a Mk12 Mod 0 upper and accuracy test it in like 2015.
 
#13,907
carbonbased said:
Not -27°F, just a range between 25°F & 27°F, right? So could be maybe 0° to 15°F where you were?

As you allude too, surprising that the bolt knob decided to let go…maybe just metal fatigue? Someone on SH broke an AI bolt handle somehow and posted a pic.
Click to expand...
Yes. +25˚ to 27˚ F down in Price. I don’t recall what it was exactly up in the mountains, but it was pretty chilly.

Nothing like Russia though.
 
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#13,910
carbonbased said:
Also @BurtG, don’t trust just the number on the side of the motor oil bottle. I watched a -40°F pour test on a number of motor oils and the cheap Walmart oil was worse than molasses, and even higher end oils were significantly worse than mobile one.



Screenshot below:
View attachment 8064023

@LRRPF52 has some experience in cold weather military stuff.

Finally, this thread has some good info as well (whoops, already linked to it above, oh well):
www.snipershide.com

Freezing rifle test - Garand Thumb

I wasn't expecting much. But I must admit the brands/ types I thought would do well did not! I found this really enlightening.
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
Click to expand...

Mobil 1 is the best all around gun lube you can buy
 
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#13,913
@BurtG I just run 520 or 020 as suggested above that I have in the garage.... Light coat on it all wipe most of it off but I def keep some in the channel the bolt stop rides in and a tad on the lugs where there is wear.
 
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#13,915
Krob95 said:
So in a pinch I can just pull the dipstick out of my engine and wipe some off on my finger and smear it on my bolt?
Click to expand...
What you do on your own time is your own business, bub.

Lol ok sorry for the dumb joke. It was just too easy!

And I agree with the poster above me…cleaner oil = better. Obv.

How I came to use Mobil One:
After a lot of fucking reading it became apparent that lots of people that seemed to know what they were talking about mostly all agreed that most gun lubes were repackaged industrial lube, one of which is motor oil. Which has a ton of research behind it.

And it’s cheap. Mobil One was mentioned a lot, and it seemed to do well in pour tests. (Which may not have anything to do with anything, but hey)

I cannot say they are right or wrong. But I like the story, and the story makes my capitalistic ironic spider-sense tingle.

Motor oil operates in a seemingly way harsher environment then most firearms do. I believe that it is formulated to remove/resist/clean? carbon.

So there you have it. Gun oil and grease are primarily made of backstory.
 
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#13,917
Wasn't there some company that was basically selling Crisco as a gun lube and they got busted on that?

Either way, I don't buy into all the gun industry doing any kind of research on their own lubes. You have the major oil companies spending millions and millions of dollars on R&D on lubricants that stand up to way more abuse than a gun cycling. I personally use ATF in a small needle bottle applied to the high friction areas and it's a very very little amount. I have had the same 2 oz bottle for 10 years and there is still over half full of ATF in it. If you took the bolt out of my rifles they would almost feel dry. I hate it when I pick up a gun and there is just oil everywhere.
 
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#13,919
LRRPF52 said:
Yes, outside of Price at probably the best range facility in the US.

Is that the upper that shot really well, but didn’t like M193 due to having a shorter chamber meant for secant ogive bullets?
Click to expand...
Indeed it was. It was a Douglas barrel chambered by compass lake and it shot the big ones (77 or 69) really well but was awful with 55. Good memory.

I should have kept that upper. It was awesome. But someone make me a ridiculous offer for it a few years later.

I’ve moved on to bigger and better things. Like AI
 
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#13,923
Bacarrat said:
Wasn't there some company that was basically selling Crisco as a gun lube and they got busted on that?

Either way, I don't buy into all the gun industry doing any kind of research on their own lubes. You have the major oil companies spending millions and millions of dollars on R&D on lubricants that stand up to way more abuse than a gun cycling. I personally use ATF in a small needle bottle applied to the high friction areas and it's a very very little amount. I have had the same 2 oz bottle for 10 years and there is still over half full of ATF in it. If you took the bolt out of my rifles they would almost feel dry. I hate it when I pick up a gun and there is just oil everywhere.
Click to expand...

That was FireClean.

Froglube sucks in the cold though.
 
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#13,924
Kwe1982 said:
That was FireClean.

Froglube sucks in the cold though.
Click to expand...
Frog lube is coconut oil.

www.thefirearmblog.com

FrogLube is Probably Made From Coconut Oil (Not Frogs) -

Last month Andrew Tuohy published a blog post comparing FrogLube with two other lubricants TrackLube+ (a rollercoaster lubricant) and Seal1, another gun lube. He commissioned a infrared spectroscopy analysis of the three lubes and found they were virtually identical chemically, despite being...
www.thefirearmblog.com www.thefirearmblog.com
 
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#13,926
brianenos.com

Slide-Glide Firearm, Pistol, Rifle & Overall Lubricant

Slide-Glide firearm lubricant is now in resealable Tubes - for Pistols, Revolvers, Rifles, 22's, and Shotguns - it will outperform your favorite gun lube.
brianenos.com brianenos.com

Been using this one for years now on all my firearms. And only apply once, very little of it. Runs your bolt or pistol slide like butter. But for some reason, I don’t know why they sell it in little tubes now. Last time I went on this site, was 6 years ago. And they use to sell them in 2 oz containers. Oh well, don’t need too much when applying.
 
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#13,927
trophyhunter said:
If you think your engine takes a beating, imagine a part that doesn’t get its oil changed for 100,000 miles. Lots of moving metal parts in that tranny.

ATF for the win
Click to expand...
Transmissions don't see any carbon build up though, is the consensus that it's superior to Mobil-1 in that regard or just generally superior?

PS - I've had really good luck with Fire Clean in all my rifles, especially the suppressed, DI M4/AR15 platforms. You guys saying I'll have better luck with either Mobil-1 or ATF accross the board? Because I have gallons of both lying around the garage. I maintain all my vehicles at home so it's always in abundant supply.
 
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#13,928
vonbalkenbush said:
Transmissions don't see any carbon build up though, is the consensus that it's superior to Mobil-1 in that regard or just generally superior?

PS - I've had really good luck with Fire Clean in all my rifles, especially the suppressed, DI M4/AR15 platforms. You guys saying I'll have better luck with either Mobil-1 or ATF accross the board? Because I have gallons of both lying around the garage. I maintain all my vehicles at home so it's always in abundant supply.
Click to expand...
Lubricating on the bottom of engine where the oil runs don’t see much carbon. The top end does, pistons chambers etc. Transmissions have metal holding together and spinning at hefty rates. Heat in a tranny is close to 200*.

Motor oil I think holds up better to being washed with fuel, from cylinder leakage. But motor oil is changed often, 3000. Tranny oil is WAY longer, and most trannies that I’ve rebuilt the oil wasn’t the issue. It was clutch slippage (horsepower related).

In my opinion ATF does well in cold or hot and doesn’t attract as much dirt as motor.
 
#13,933
trophyhunter said:
Lubricating on the bottom of engine where the oil runs don’t see much carbon. The top end does, pistons chambers etc. Transmissions have metal holding together and spinning at hefty rates. Heat in a tranny is close to 200*.

Motor oil I think holds up better to being washed with fuel, from cylinder leakage. But motor oil is changed often, 3000. Tranny oil is WAY longer, and most trannies that I’ve rebuilt the oil wasn’t the issue. It was clutch slippage (horsepower related).

In my opinion ATF does well in cold or hot and doesn’t attract as much dirt as motor.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Appreciate the insight.

I’ve always used gun-oil products but there’s no question the automotive industry has done way more development on their lubricants than the gun industry ever will.

I use fuel injector cleaner (Sea Foam) for cleaning barrels/bolts etc… might as well try automotive lubricants as well LOL. Gun care products are not magic and likely just relabeled automotive chemicals anyway. And they’re a huge rip-off when you look at cost/unit volume. Auto stuff is way cheaper and does exactly the same thing.
 
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#13,944
Bacarrat said:
Wasn't there some company that was basically selling Crisco as a gun lube and they got busted on that?

Either way, I don't buy into all the gun industry doing any kind of research on their own lubes. You have the major oil companies spending millions and millions of dollars on R&D on lubricants that stand up to way more abuse than a gun cycling. I personally use ATF in a small needle bottle applied to the high friction areas and it's a very very little amount. I have had the same 2 oz bottle for 10 years and there is still over half full of ATF in it. If you took the bolt out of my rifles they would almost feel dry. I hate it when I pick up a gun and there is just oil everywhere.
Click to expand...
in a nutshell.
for mobil 1, there isn't anything that comes remotely close at that pricepoint and let's be honest, if you're running around with your AR in -50 degrees, I'm pretty sure you know to leave it outside overnight and to apply little to no lube (though some countries recommend lots of lube). either way, mobil 1 destroys the competition imho
 
#13,949
RUTGERS95 said:
in a nutshell.
for mobil 1, there isn't anything that comes remotely close at that pricepoint and let's be honest, if you're running around with your AR in -50 degrees, I'm pretty sure you know to leave it outside overnight and to apply little to no lube (though some countries recommend lots of lube). either way, mobil 1 destroys the competition imho
Click to expand...
Bingo! I live just down the road from Ft Greely, and deal with the glory of Alaska winter. Honestly for winter lube a very thin film of whatever —-works. I have used every brand listed and more, with no issues. My duty issued Colt M4 has not had any issues—- it’s in/out my vehicle often. Agency policy is hot standby in the in the rack. I wait as long as possible letting rifle and mag cold soak before loading hot. Little experience and not overthinking.
 
#13,950
FUNCTIONAL said:
I think that was frog lube ?
Click to expand...
During one of my Winter DM Courses, one of my good friends brought a Noveske AR-15. It was very cold, lots of snow and ice all over.

He started having malfunctions with it, so I checked it out, felt like he poured fine sand all over inside the action.

Me: “I put out to show up with a well-lubed rifle. This thing has sand all inside it."

Him: “I did lube it thoroughly!"

Me: “With what?"

Him: “Frog lube."

There wasn’t any sand in sight for miles, but it felt like moon dust inside the action. Whatever Frog Lube is made of, it crystalized and granulated into a fine particulate coating that made a normally-slick Noveske AR-15 run like a parts bin poverty pony dipped in cement.

I had heard all kinds of advertising about Frog Lube, but put it on my “avoid like plague" list after that.

Wasn’t a problem for me, since I was using Slip2000.
 
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