Really? What, pray tell, where the issues with the AI? It's rather trollish of you to make a statement like this and then provide NO factual information.
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AI AW vs 700 style actions ...which fails more?
- Thread starter 300WSM
- Start date
Really? What, pray tell, where the issues with the AI? It's rather trollish of you to make a statement like this and then provide NO factual information.
Wet ammo/chamber is what made the AI go down. I do no know what the actual mechanical issues that rendered it inoperable as I didn't inspect the rifle. Moral of the story is they all can take a shit at the most inopportune time.
You can take your trollish comments and stuff 'em.
You can take your trollish comments and stuff 'em.
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Most likely the water on the case caused an issue with chamber fit. This may or may not have been an aftermarket chamber with tighter dimensions. I do believe you called a man out for making a statement based on his personal observation because your a frank and zak FANBOY and likely have very little of your own experiences to relate. Why dont YOU provide some factual experiences to reaffirm the awsomeness of the AI platform?
I am personally happy with a worked over remington to include a mini16 extractor,side bolt release, AND AN ACCU-TIG BOLT HANDLE. For $70 you can send a bolt to accutig and have a custom bolt handle WELDED on your bolt and PROPERLY timed for primary extraction. In my mind this is a very logical upgrade for the 700. I have had few issues over tens of thousands of rounds but granted MOST of my shooting is done in a more controlled environmemt THAN many guys here who are able to shoot more than the handful of matches i make a year. Even my monthly qualifications back in the day were done on a concrete pad. I would be very interested in building a rifle on an AI receiver if they were available bare and if i didnt build my own rifles i am sure the AI would be a front runner for a match gun.
So the only part that was trollish was him seeing an AI go down? You don't need factual information about all other makes he has seen puke, just the AI? Who's trollish?
How about I call bullshit..
Water in the chamber or wet ammo will not effect the AW. I have stuck a garden hose in mine during a TAC Pro match many years ago, to get the mud out during a competition. Between relays I flushed it, and shot it minutes later.
could you blow a primer, sure, but you understand it's an Arctic Warfare right. It has a ice ring to cut the ice from moisture in the chamber. I can see a blown primer fouling it up, but that is not the rifle failing. That is the operator not clearing it.
I can also see a shooter worried about it, and stopping but the gun don't care. Any time you want a demonstration just say, I'll soak it and shoot it on video.
Water in the chamber or wet ammo will not effect the AW. I have stuck a garden hose in mine during a TAC Pro match many years ago, to get the mud out during a competition. Between relays I flushed it, and shot it minutes later.
could you blow a primer, sure, but you understand it's an Arctic Warfare right. It has a ice ring to cut the ice from moisture in the chamber. I can see a blown primer fouling it up, but that is not the rifle failing. That is the operator not clearing it.
I can also see a shooter worried about it, and stopping but the gun don't care. Any time you want a demonstration just say, I'll soak it and shoot it on video.
Frank,
You call bullshit if you like. He didnt specify it was a completely stock rifle with its original factory barrel. IF it was in fact an aftermarket barrel with a tight match chamber there certainly could have been an issue. There is also a big difference between a waterhose stream of water that has already washed all contaminants away and the initial sprinkle that comes up and turns all that dirt, lube, and othe grime into MUD. I guess an AI also runs like a rolex full of mud? I am NOT debating the value or worth of the AI design and i certainly dont claim to have your experiene with the AI or otherwise, but i also dont believe in magic. To dispute the mans theory when we were not there is pretty bold. I have no doubt he witnessed the rifle fail. I dont understand why everyone else finds it so hard to believe.
It was raining and muddy before, during and after I hosed it.
He also doesn't know what happened, so the failure is debatable.
If it failed, he needs to answer a single question, did it require the owner to get it repaired ?
its a combat rifle used by over 60 countries... It's not a custom match rifle, even a tight chamber would do nothing more than blow the primer.
He also doesn't know what happened, so the failure is debatable.
If it failed, he needs to answer a single question, did it require the owner to get it repaired ?
its a combat rifle used by over 60 countries... It's not a custom match rifle, even a tight chamber would do nothing more than blow the primer.
Your theory on what the out come would or would not have been with a match chamber is also "debatable". He didnt even say wether or not a round was able to be chambered and i was assuming that it was NOT. I also KNOW that an over pressure round can temporarily "weld" itself to the chamber walls upon being fired and not allow extraction all WITHOUT blowing a primer. This would be much more common in a tight spec chamber. Again, we dont know the specs on the barrel wether factory or otherwise.
Wow. The butt hurt over this is amazing.
Frank,
I don't care what you call it. Using the AI was part of a stage of fire at a match, it went down, the stage had to be modified to instead use our own rifle for the whole stage. Again, I didnt inspect the rifle, nor did I or do I care what happened to it. The fact remains it went down...
Frank,
I don't care what you call it. Using the AI was part of a stage of fire at a match, it went down, the stage had to be modified to instead use our own rifle for the whole stage. Again, I didnt inspect the rifle, nor did I or do I care what happened to it. The fact remains it went down...
Which still says absolutely nothing, for all you know the rifle blew a primer and the owner decided to not let everyone use it.
Using the word "failed" in this case has not been proven, by any stretch of the definition. And if you believe wet ammo is enough to do it, I have a presented my response.
I am sure it was someone's gun, it might have sounded like a good idea until it blew the primer. Since no mechanical issue was known, it was clearly a personal choice to remove it.
butt hurt has nothing to do with it, you don't have a clue what you are saying, you just know they decided to not use it, the reason is totally unclear.
Anything can break, but you have not demonstrated it did.
Using the word "failed" in this case has not been proven, by any stretch of the definition. And if you believe wet ammo is enough to do it, I have a presented my response.
I am sure it was someone's gun, it might have sounded like a good idea until it blew the primer. Since no mechanical issue was known, it was clearly a personal choice to remove it.
butt hurt has nothing to do with it, you don't have a clue what you are saying, you just know they decided to not use it, the reason is totally unclear.
Anything can break, but you have not demonstrated it did.
It did blow primers. Several of them. Then at one point in became inoperable. I don't know what is so damn hard for you understand about that.
weld to the chamber... Never saw that myself.
and all your speculation has nothing to do with the rifle, if they did have an aftermarket barrel, chambered to tight specs, that also does not mean, AI failed... It's not the AIs fault, as it could be a case failure and be the ammo's fault.
Again using the word failed is the issue. Not that it can't fail, but in this case, a wet bullet alone would not cause it too.
I honestly believe people are too quick to things they saw happen in other cases to something that is far from common in this case. It doesn't pass the sniff test.
If he said it broke the extractor and it had to be replaced, that is a failure. But he didn't, it could be as simple as the owner deciding he didn't want his $6k used by everyone after it blew a primer. People get funny about that stuff when their money is on the line.
Blowing primers can easily jam the ejector... That would be considered inoperable, the fix can be as simple as popping it back out. It can stick brass shavings in there.
Your exaggerating the issue based on a single experience. You're making it sound like this failure is so common just add water.
If you're blowing primers, one would think you'd take steps to limit it. It's not hard. After all stupid is as stupid does.
Your exaggerating the issue based on a single experience. You're making it sound like this failure is so common just add water.
If you're blowing primers, one would think you'd take steps to limit it. It's not hard. After all stupid is as stupid does.
I am exaggerating nothing. Feel free to point out where I implied that it was a common problem. I have not said a negative word about AI or salvage for that matter. I simply stated that they all can take a shit. You are putting words in my mouth and purely speculating. I was at the match, you were not.
Frank,
Being the proprietor of this site grants you a certain amount of creative freedom and evidently we have to prove every word while you only have to speculate. The fact of the matter remains that neither you nor i were at the match in question and 7mmRM WAS. I have no reason whatsoever to disclaim what he says and i was only trying to provide a scenario that we could all agree on to explain the "failure" as it were. Taking your example, how many blown primers have locked up a remington and left it inoperable that were EAGERLY chalked up to a "failure"? Who gives a shit what it was that kept the magic gun from working.....as long as its not an AI, right????
Whatever,
you guys are right I wasn't there... But it still doesn't change history, the numbers don't lie.
you guys are right I wasn't there... But it still doesn't change history, the numbers don't lie.
I was also at the match with 7mmRM and witnessed the AI go down. The case remained stuck in the chamber after the extraction failed. That's why the rifle was taken out of the match. It was not an issue of the owner "not wanting everyone to shoot his $6000 rifle"
Carry on......
Carry on......
$1 says there was brass shavings on the bolt fact, or the case rim ripped.
Blowing primers, especially multiple times has a high chance of scattering brass shaving around the inside of the bolt face. Nylon brush and about 30 seconds solves the problem.
It's an if and than proposition, if you do this, that will happen.
Blowing primers, especially multiple times has a high chance of scattering brass shaving around the inside of the bolt face. Nylon brush and about 30 seconds solves the problem.
It's an if and than proposition, if you do this, that will happen.
A blown primer can/will lock up a remington many times as well. How many times has this been called a "failure" without everyone defending the remington? What would be your theory as to why the end all be all of rifles started REPEATEDLY blowing primers? I also made a statement about brass being "welded" to the chamber wall for lack of a better term and you stated you had never seen that happen. If you have seen an AI "rip" the rim off a case that stayed in the chamber, that damn sure constitutes "weld", or whatever term you chose to use, to me! Maybe we could agree on the terms of an over pressure load "severely sticking" to the chamber wall. How about that?
You imply that the rifle was not properly cleared/ cleaned after popping primers. Wrong again. Before you say that I didn't mention that, guess I would give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't think the the match DO, and ROs were a bunch of bumbling retards. They weren't...
Self,
You describe a problem I've encountered with my Remingtons and alot of others. Moreover, with Engine22s account with the same AI. Blown primer + extraction failure = failure. I'd sure call it that in any rifle I built, Rem 700 or whatever.
You describe a problem I've encountered with my Remingtons and alot of others. Moreover, with Engine22s account with the same AI. Blown primer + extraction failure = failure. I'd sure call it that in any rifle I built, Rem 700 or whatever.
You guys win, I have no idea what I am talking about and I have never shot in the rain
Being the new guy at this, your experience trumps anything I have to contribute to your experience
Being the new guy at this, your experience trumps anything I have to contribute to your experience
Frank,
Toss all the stupid rain pictures you want. I've shot in them too. Plenty. Had some troubles in some and none in others.
Toss all the stupid rain pictures you want. I've shot in them too. Plenty. Had some troubles in some and none in others.
No frank, you win. You have repeatedly implied that several of your peers were incompetent and couldnt possibly know what truly constitutes a failure. Shooting in the rain pictures trumps all and clearly shows you know what rain is and were subjected to every possible scenario while enduring said rain. I just hope AI increases your commision for being such a loyal supporter of their products. Have you ever been wrong about ANYTHING proven or otherwise?
We do not give Frank any commission and he has never asked for any.
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International
Tom,
LOL .... that is funny.
PS.
Everything I am wrong about I refrain from posting on the subject.
LOL .... that is funny.
PS.
Everything I am wrong about I refrain from posting on the subject.
Hi tom. I assume you are a legitimate representative of AI? If so, have you EVER seen an AI rifle fail, heard (from a trusted source) of an AI rifle failing, or taken an AI rifle in for repairs prior to the 100,000 round mark? That was a rhetorical question tom........we all know the answer........well almost all of us, right frank?
Tom owns Accuracy International, LOL
Ask him how many came in for repair because it was shot in the rain ?
Besides I have already acknowledge well above that anything mechanical can and will break.. which I alluded to again talking history and numbers
Ask him how many came in for repair because it was shot in the rain ?
Besides I have already acknowledge well above that anything mechanical can and will break.. which I alluded to again talking history and numbers
Well frank, you are relentless!
My name is frank and i am an AIaholic. Repeat after me: AI rifles NEVER FAIL, and AW magazines NEVER work.......unless i say so!
No, I said, AW magazines in 700 footprint action doesn't work... there is a reason the AICS magazines are a single stack.
In an AW / AX, the double stack magazine works great. Different bolt style, and the bonded chassis means no flex in the pick up.
AI-Holic fuck ya, when the Apocalypse comes, what rifle will you being carrying ? I know what will be with me, it starts with A...
In an AW / AX, the double stack magazine works great. Different bolt style, and the bonded chassis means no flex in the pick up.
AI-Holic fuck ya, when the Apocalypse comes, what rifle will you being carrying ? I know what will be with me, it starts with A...
Since this thread resurfaced I'd like to ask a few questions of AI owners.
- Anyone have an AI fail that's not ammo related?
- Maybe someone dropped their AI and the bolt handle broke off?
- Surely someone has ripped the bolt handle right off their AI because they ran it too hard?
- Anyone not able to make their AI go boom-boom because some ice or snow took you out of the game?
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The only trouble I ever had with my AI rifles was one time (on the day I got the rifle as I recall) when a Lapua factory .338 round had the primer slightly come apart & blow a piece of itself into the space between the firing pin and the bolt head. It took a couple minutes to take apart and clean out & then it was back up and running good as ever.
The one rifle I would grab above all others and trust everything to is my old trusty AW .308 with the good old dovetail mount.
The one rifle I would grab above all others and trust everything to is my old trusty AW .308 with the good old dovetail mount.
And while we're at it, can we note which failues are due to the R700 design, and which (if any) can be attributed to say...tighter tolerances, aftermarket custom parts, or other conditions of the "customization" process.
First off anything can and will fail eventually, it's a matter of which fails the least. To be the best you don't have to be failure free, just better than the rest by any measure.
I've owned 5 AI's, currently have the now old AX and a AT on order as well. One of them (my AE MKI) I bought something like 6-7 spare mags for, one of the mags the bolt would sometimes jump the case head when running it fast, non of the others would. I suppose you could call that a failure but it was a bad mag that could have easily been dropped somewhere along the line. AI replaced it no questions asked. My AX had a bad extractor, just a bad part, and caused a couple rounds to not make it out of the chamber and a few others to dribble out. They still extracted from the chamber 100% though and the rifle was never rendered inoperable. Once again AI stepped up and replaced it no question. They showed me the extractor and sure enough it was straight and is supposed to have a slight curve.
If I had $100 for every time I experienced a malfunction or failure with other brand bolt guns I'd have a whole safe full of AI's. I've had model 70's break extractors numerous times rendering them inoperable, I've have the fail to feed too. On R700's I've broken 20 extractors or better, had the ejector stick with not even very hot loads, broken a half dozen bolt knobs off running them normally, had numerous trigger groups aftermarket and factory fail, and plenty of feeding failures. With custom actions I've broken R700 style and sako extractors, had trigger groups fail, had them not eject or extract, and had feeding problems like crazy.
My AI's have been used and not pampered. The actions have gotten caked with mud, snow, ice, dust and they keep shooting and keep feeding. I've NEVER had or experienced another rifle that feeds as smooth and reliably as every AI I've had does. They have all shot 1/2MOA or better. My AE with 1:12 UK barrel was a consistent 1/4MOA rifle, it would group in the .1's when the shooter could and could easily dominate a bench rest match.... With a "factory" rifle...
I wanted an AI from the get go, before I bought my first rifle. I kept. Eating around the bush and spending the same money on customs becuase I could put down a deposit and save up until the completion.... I should have just bought an AI. The last straw was a M2008 build, after that I swore off cuato s forever and I've never looked back.
I've owned 5 AI's, currently have the now old AX and a AT on order as well. One of them (my AE MKI) I bought something like 6-7 spare mags for, one of the mags the bolt would sometimes jump the case head when running it fast, non of the others would. I suppose you could call that a failure but it was a bad mag that could have easily been dropped somewhere along the line. AI replaced it no questions asked. My AX had a bad extractor, just a bad part, and caused a couple rounds to not make it out of the chamber and a few others to dribble out. They still extracted from the chamber 100% though and the rifle was never rendered inoperable. Once again AI stepped up and replaced it no question. They showed me the extractor and sure enough it was straight and is supposed to have a slight curve.
If I had $100 for every time I experienced a malfunction or failure with other brand bolt guns I'd have a whole safe full of AI's. I've had model 70's break extractors numerous times rendering them inoperable, I've have the fail to feed too. On R700's I've broken 20 extractors or better, had the ejector stick with not even very hot loads, broken a half dozen bolt knobs off running them normally, had numerous trigger groups aftermarket and factory fail, and plenty of feeding failures. With custom actions I've broken R700 style and sako extractors, had trigger groups fail, had them not eject or extract, and had feeding problems like crazy.
My AI's have been used and not pampered. The actions have gotten caked with mud, snow, ice, dust and they keep shooting and keep feeding. I've NEVER had or experienced another rifle that feeds as smooth and reliably as every AI I've had does. They have all shot 1/2MOA or better. My AE with 1:12 UK barrel was a consistent 1/4MOA rifle, it would group in the .1's when the shooter could and could easily dominate a bench rest match.... With a "factory" rifle...
I wanted an AI from the get go, before I bought my first rifle. I kept. Eating around the bush and spending the same money on customs becuase I could put down a deposit and save up until the completion.... I should have just bought an AI. The last straw was a M2008 build, after that I swore off cuato s forever and I've never looked back.
You guys are the whiny bitches, not a single one of you can say, "how or why" and common sense says, when you blow primers like that you can easily foul the extraction, or ejection.
Nobody has said, it's infallible, but your example leaves a lot off the table. You all saw it, but nobody can say anything about it.
My bet again, 30 seconds after it was look at off the line it was cleared, and back up and running.
You can spin my words, twist the facts, whatever you like, but at the end of the day, the numbers are still in AIs favor, in the hundreds, over any other action out there.
Nobody has said, it's infallible, but your example leaves a lot off the table. You all saw it, but nobody can say anything about it.
My bet again, 30 seconds after it was look at off the line it was cleared, and back up and running.
You can spin my words, twist the facts, whatever you like, but at the end of the day, the numbers are still in AIs favor, in the hundreds, over any other action out there.
Would you like a cookie for seeing a mechanical device fail? Is your life now complete?
Something I posted on the first page:
Since I wrote that I have put around 5,000 rounds on my AW and fewer on my Sako TRG. Here are the problems I've had:
Sako TRG
Butt pad spacer cracked and I Krazy glued it in the field. Works fine. It is fussy about feeding M118LR ammo sometimes. I think the magazine follower spring should be stiffer to deal better with dirty ammo. I think the sling mount points are not threaded deep enough and I worry about cross threading/pulling out the sling attachment areas sometimes but so far it's held fine. No other problems with the weapon.
AIAW
No problems, but recently I did notice light striking on M118LR ammo that the Sako TRG would fire each time. I am still monitoring it to see if it continues after a good cleaning. Otherwise, no issues. I trust the rifle completely.
700PSS
I never personally had a big problem with my 700PSS but never ran it as hard as the AW and TRG or in the same weather. The 700 did not feed as well though and caused a lot of aggravation sometimes because of it in rapid fire. I never trusted it in cold weather after seeing what happened to those other 700 series rifles in the cold.
Since I wrote that I have put around 5,000 rounds on my AW and fewer on my Sako TRG. Here are the problems I've had:
Sako TRG
Butt pad spacer cracked and I Krazy glued it in the field. Works fine. It is fussy about feeding M118LR ammo sometimes. I think the magazine follower spring should be stiffer to deal better with dirty ammo. I think the sling mount points are not threaded deep enough and I worry about cross threading/pulling out the sling attachment areas sometimes but so far it's held fine. No other problems with the weapon.
AIAW
No problems, but recently I did notice light striking on M118LR ammo that the Sako TRG would fire each time. I am still monitoring it to see if it continues after a good cleaning. Otherwise, no issues. I trust the rifle completely.
700PSS
I never personally had a big problem with my 700PSS but never ran it as hard as the AW and TRG or in the same weather. The 700 did not feed as well though and caused a lot of aggravation sometimes because of it in rapid fire. I never trusted it in cold weather after seeing what happened to those other 700 series rifles in the cold.
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Just watching the food fight here, but why all the attention to blown primers? They don't render the gun a spear - which is kinda what the question was (I think? But then again we may have all forgoten what the question was a while ago.)
Is the bolt handle still attached? Is the chamber obstructed? Is the extractor / ejector still functioning? Is the trigger not F'ed up? Is the action still solid in the stock?
Everything takes a dump. Got it. Agree. But all of this rain / blown primer stuff - not sure I understand all the complaint as whatever the precipitating reason for blown primers could likely be cured in just a few minutes.
Is the bolt handle still attached? Is the chamber obstructed? Is the extractor / ejector still functioning? Is the trigger not F'ed up? Is the action still solid in the stock?
Everything takes a dump. Got it. Agree. But all of this rain / blown primer stuff - not sure I understand all the complaint as whatever the precipitating reason for blown primers could likely be cured in just a few minutes.
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Mirnyx.
In answer to your questions:
1. Anyone have an AI fail that's not ammo related? ANSWER: There have been minor failures but not many. We have a very good record of reliability in all conditions, including rain. Many of the failures are operator related, especially not cleaning properly.
2. Maybe someone dropped their AI and the bolt handle broke off? ANSWER: I do not remember any instance where someone dropped an AI and the bolt handle broke but it might have happened. The bolt and bolt body are one piece so extremely rugged. I have heard of many instances where they have been dropped from towers, helicopters and blown up. They still worked.
3. Surely someone has ripped the bolt handle right off their AI because they ran it too hard? ANSWER: See answer to question 2.
4. Anyone not able to make their AI go boom-boom because some ice or snow took you out of the game? ANSWER: Yes, in 1991 when we were doing trials for Sweden when it was doused in water and placed in a commercial fridge over the weekend. We changed the bolt design and that is why there are grooves in it.
I hope that helps. Everything has failures but AI rifles were designed to be rugged, reliable and robust from the first designs. Dave Walls was a competitive target shooter who complained about rifles failing in competition. His engineering partner, Dave Caig, from way back then told him he should design a rifle that does not fail. He did so and Malcolm Cooper used it and won a World Championship. From those early beginnings Accuracy International was born. Reliability is in our DNA.
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International
In answer to your questions:
1. Anyone have an AI fail that's not ammo related? ANSWER: There have been minor failures but not many. We have a very good record of reliability in all conditions, including rain. Many of the failures are operator related, especially not cleaning properly.
2. Maybe someone dropped their AI and the bolt handle broke off? ANSWER: I do not remember any instance where someone dropped an AI and the bolt handle broke but it might have happened. The bolt and bolt body are one piece so extremely rugged. I have heard of many instances where they have been dropped from towers, helicopters and blown up. They still worked.
3. Surely someone has ripped the bolt handle right off their AI because they ran it too hard? ANSWER: See answer to question 2.
4. Anyone not able to make their AI go boom-boom because some ice or snow took you out of the game? ANSWER: Yes, in 1991 when we were doing trials for Sweden when it was doused in water and placed in a commercial fridge over the weekend. We changed the bolt design and that is why there are grooves in it.
I hope that helps. Everything has failures but AI rifles were designed to be rugged, reliable and robust from the first designs. Dave Walls was a competitive target shooter who complained about rifles failing in competition. His engineering partner, Dave Caig, from way back then told him he should design a rifle that does not fail. He did so and Malcolm Cooper used it and won a World Championship. From those early beginnings Accuracy International was born. Reliability is in our DNA.
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International
Sure, all of the actions can fail but this thread is titled which one fails more. There's substantial evidence of the 700 style actions failing and minimal evidence of the AI's failing. This causes me to wonder if AI owners hide their failures or simply don't experience them very often? Perhaps the sample size is just too small; if there were a bazillion AI's on the market we would see and hear about more failures? I don't know. Given the info and experiences I have available to draw a conclusion, it's clear the AI is a more reliable action and it's not even close.
What I don't understand is why the owners of 700 style actions jump to defend their platform with so much evidence stacked against it. Remove AI from the conversation and the 700 style actions are still going to have limitations and failures. Shooters keep lining up to drop thousands on 700 style customs because they can "burger king" the order process. Perhaps more people should push AI to offer actions and develop a bottom metal or mini-chassis for Manners and McMillan stocks. That would shake up the custom world.
What does this mean, some of the primer material got caught up in the extractor? Did anyone diagnose what was going on, or did it pop a primer, fail to feed or extract and at the point it was simply set aside?
@308skinner
You're not too smart, and that is ok, if you jam pieces of brass and primer parts, you can lock up any machine.
Again, when you sent to AI to be repaired what did they fix... I really want to grasp this, what broke ? vs did you have debris from the blown primers lodged in there somewhere.
You said it would not cycle, explain that, and explain what was done to fix it ?
You're not too smart, and that is ok, if you jam pieces of brass and primer parts, you can lock up any machine.
Again, when you sent to AI to be repaired what did they fix... I really want to grasp this, what broke ? vs did you have debris from the blown primers lodged in there somewhere.
You said it would not cycle, explain that, and explain what was done to fix it ?
60 Countries can' t be all wrong, including our own.
You know there are some pretty high speed, Spec Ops types carrying AWs right. (and not just the chassis)
You know there are some pretty high speed, Spec Ops types carrying AWs right. (and not just the chassis)
The rifle 7mmRM referred to was chambered in 6.5Creedmoor using factory ammo, supplied by the owner/match director. After the course of fire for the day, I offered to help with it because had brought some tools with me . Unfortunately, nobody had thought to bring a rod or dowel to clear the case, so the rifle was put away.
I've had the same experience with one of my personal M700s on a prairie dog shoot that I believe was ammo related. Wouldn't you know it, I had popped a few primers earlier that day. It happens.
I've had the same experience with one of my personal M700s on a prairie dog shoot that I believe was ammo related. Wouldn't you know it, I had popped a few primers earlier that day. It happens.
@Engine 22
Thanks for the explanation, curious if after removing the case, and clearing any debris if it continued to function, my guess yes.
For the others,
Funny, a single cleaning rod and the rifle could have been right back in action, so is that the rifle "puking" , or operator error ...
Not to mention, after market barrel.
I find it quite comical that in the last month, everyone arguing and debating me, at the end of the day it turns out I am more right than wrong. Seems to be pattern hear... lots of misdirection until the truth eventually finds its way to surface.
Thanks for the explanation, curious if after removing the case, and clearing any debris if it continued to function, my guess yes.
For the others,
Funny, a single cleaning rod and the rifle could have been right back in action, so is that the rifle "puking" , or operator error ...
Not to mention, after market barrel.
I find it quite comical that in the last month, everyone arguing and debating me, at the end of the day it turns out I am more right than wrong. Seems to be pattern hear... lots of misdirection until the truth eventually finds its way to surface.
Funny had a 700, Stiller, Surgeon, etc needed a cleaning rod to get back up and running it would have been a "failure". FACT...
Awe, now it's an after market barrel to blame. Of course.
Awe, now it's an after market barrel to blame. Of course.
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Redneck took the time to write up something non-inflammatory with plenty of first hand experience and you write back in fifth grade english like a child on top of being deliberately insulting for no reason whatsoever. You know, there's many of us that don't take children texting seriously at all.
It's ok LRI, he's just another fool in denial. "AI's fail because I saw it once, but Remington's don't because mine haven't". You can always tell who is either talking out of their ass or have a sweet rifle to show off to their friends from who actually shoots.
AI makes a rock solid superbly reliable, hard use / harsh condition exceptionally accurate rifle right out of the box ready to go. Part of the reason it is so good is that it is all built together as a system, AI most likely can sell all they can produce & then some. A lot of the custom stuff people want to do would sacrifice rock solid reliability for aesthetics / ergonomics / weight.
If you jam enough metal shavings, sand, mud or grass into an AI rifle it will eventually stop working, but the difference is also that most likely with just a few minutes of work all can be back up and running as if nothing ever happened. In the case of the one single failure being discussed in this thread, all it sounds like someone would have had to do is have a cleaning rod handy or metal / wooden rod to shove down the barrel & a rock or something to hit it with & the rifle would have been back up and running.
In addition, when things go wrong with your ammo (which is where most of the issues start), you want to be behind an AI rifle. A few years back there was some pictures in this thread where someone was shooting an AW50 on the range with a bunch of folks and they had a .50 BMG brass rupture, crack open at the bottom and vent back into the action.... And the result was.... they didn't even know it had happened till later....
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/50190-ai-aw-vs-700-style-actions-fails-more-4.html#post706390
Compare that to the recent thread on a custom rifle using the more standard 700 style action in a 308:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/228160-catastrophic-failure-8.html#post2875710
