AI AW vs 700 style actions ...which fails more?

[E. Bryant]

My goodness, some of the responses in this thread suggest that we should be evaluating the reliability of different automobile brands by the number of times we've been sidelined by flat tires.

 

[XOR]

One of the things I often do is throw outdoor gear in the freezer overnight to see what happens after getting it wet. For instance when I'm mountaineering/snow camping the last place I want to find out my gear doesn't like freezing temps is when on a snow field thousands of feet above the base camp. It's better to find out in the kitchen freezer first.

I think everyone should take their favorite gear and get it wet and put it in the freezer if they can (obviously long guns this is a problem, but a chest or walk-in freezer would work). Get it wet as well to simulate melting snow from getting in and out of vehicles, tents, etc. Do the test a couple times and see how the stock feels in your hands and face when it's freezing. Check how the scope turrets work when the grease in there gets cold. Do you use a shell holder on your rifle? Freeze it and see if the elastic stops working and the shells want to fall out. How is the sling working? Is it too stiff and the adjustments hard to use? Do the same with your range finder and battery operated gear to see how it responds. Cold temps kill batteries and electronics. Condensation from going freezing to warm can work through waterproof seals, etc.

If people did even this kind of simple testing they'd find all sorts of things out about their gear before they get out into really bad weather and need to rely on it. If there is a problem, fix it in the gear or swap it out for something that works better.

 

[BJ343]

@Engine 22

I find it quite comical that in the last month, everyone arguing and debating me, at the end of the day it turns out I am more right than wrong. Seems to be pattern hear... lots of misdirection until the truth eventually finds its way to surface.

Frank you are a very knowledgeable and experienced man and I didn't realise so very modest too BTW thanks for your site and sharing ya wisdom

BTW, I cant for the life of me think why a civilian would want to go shooting in snow and ice....you'll get cold..the army once paid me to go shooting in shit conditions...why would I do it for free?

 

[selfbowhunter]

first off anything can and will fail eventually, it's a matter of which fails the least. To be the best you don't have to be failure free, just better than the rest by any measure.

I've owned 5 ai's, currently have the now old ax and a at on order as well. One of them (my ae mki) i bought something like 6-7 spare mags for, one of the mags the bolt would sometimes jump the case head when running it fast, non of the others would. I suppose you could call that a failure but it was a bad mag that could have easily been dropped somewhere along the line. Ai replaced it no questions asked. My ax had a bad extractor, just a bad part, and caused a couple rounds to not make it out of the chamber and a few others to dribble out. They still extracted from the chamber 100% though and the rifle was never rendered inoperable. Once again ai stepped up and replaced it no question. They showed me the extractor and sure enough it was straight and is supposed to have a slight curve.

If i had $100 for every time i experienced a malfunction or failure with other brand bolt guns i'd have a whole safe full of ai's. I've had model 70's break extractors numerous times rendering them inoperable, i've have the fail to feed too. On r700's i've broken 20 extractors or better, had the ejector stick with not even very hot loads, broken a half dozen bolt knobs off running them normally, had numerous trigger groups aftermarket and factory fail, and plenty of feeding failures. With custom actions i've broken r700 style and sako extractors, had trigger groups fail, had them not eject or extract, and had feeding problems like crazy.

My ai's have been used and not pampered. The actions have gotten caked with mud, snow, ice, dust and they keep shooting and keep feeding. I've never had or experienced another rifle that feeds as smooth and reliably as every ai i've had does. They have all shot 1/2moa or better. My ae with 1:12 uk barrel was a consistent 1/4moa rifle, it would group in the .1's when the shooter could and could easily dominate a bench rest match.... With a "factory" rifle...

I wanted an ai from the get go, before i bought my first rifle. I kept. Eating around the bush and spending the same money on customs becuase i could put down a deposit and save up until the completion.... I should have just bought an ai. The last straw was a m2008 build, after that i swore off cuato s forever and i've never looked back.

your so full of shit your breath stinks.....

 

[AEROMechanic]

your so full of shit your breath stinks.....

Wow, with that rebuttal I dont know how anyone could argue...

 

[Lowlight]

Snow does suck, but it happens

If you go to Thunder Ranch and do their HART Class, you can count on Snow and once you go up the hill, you are not coming down until the end of the day.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

your so full of shit your breath stinks.....

That's the best you can do? I post experience with several actions and you get butthurt. You obviously can't argue with EXPERIENCE. Enjoy denial.

 

[AEROMechanic]

Snow does suck, but it happens

If you go to Thunder Ranch and do their HART Class, you can count on Snow and once you go up the hill, you are not coming down until the end of the day.

Is the a GAP10 in the bottom photo?

 

[BJ343]

Snow does suck, but it happens

Frank, you wont find Crocs or Roos to shoot in the snow...shooting in the snow is tough, esp if you aint getting paid or killing terrorists and frankly, i always thought it an activity purely for kooky europeans
and [MENTION=82295]Tom[/MENTION] Irwin...ahrum, as someone that refuses to shoot in the snow, i'd be happy too give your rifles an endorsement..."preferred by 60 nations, as their sniper rifle and blokes that love shooting and wont do it in the cold" how about a mates rates rifle?

 

[S12A]

within 1 month in the bolt action rifles section:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...tion-rifles/227539-rem-700-rust-question.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-remington-223-sps-tactical-out-box-turd.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/226056-bad-out-box.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ton-700-5r-308-milspec-horrible-accuracy.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...787-intermittent-problem-remington-700-a.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-dropped-my-rem-700-bolt-ground-now-what.html

probably missed some, didn't even look in the gunsmithing section... point being how many of these threads do you see about AI?

 

[BoilerUP]

One would hope a rifle system that starts around $3500USD and gets more expensive from there would be a bit more robust than one that costs $500-1000.

Nobody has said that AI's aren't more robust or reliable than 700s. Everybody knows they are 'overbuilt' for their intended use - combat. What has been said is that despite this, even AIs can "fail" (which to my peon brain means for some reason I can't keep shooting) in certain situations, with an example given and verified by multiple parties that were there.

Then a whole bunch of circle-jerking stupidity from there arguing about what is or is not a failure and what did or did not induce the failure mentioned above.

Mechanical shit can fail, and Murphy can strike anybody. The thing you get (in part) with an AI is a much, much longer MTBF than with a 700 with many of the known deficiencies of the 700 platform addressed in the AI's bombproof design. That does not mean, however, it is stoppage-proof.

Nobody has ripped on an AI or accused it of being a Savage folks - no reason to get all defensive.

 

[InkedIan]

within 1 month in the bolt action rifles section:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...tion-rifles/227539-rem-700-rust-question.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-remington-223-sps-tactical-out-box-turd.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/226056-bad-out-box.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ton-700-5r-308-milspec-horrible-accuracy.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...787-intermittent-problem-remington-700-a.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-dropped-my-rem-700-bolt-ground-now-what.html

probably missed some, didn't even look in the gunsmithing section... point being how many of these threads do you see about AI?

That would be a very good point if they have had the same production numbers.... The 700 was released in 1962 and according to American Rifleman(in 2012) has produced well over 5 million 700's. If you look at it in that aspect you have to wonder if they are actually close in number of problems do to manufacture defect/design percentage wise. I don't own an AI but i'd definitely hope with the base price difference and production numbers that the percentage would dramaticly favor AI and I'm sure it does.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Is the a GAP10 in the bottom photo?

That's a KAC

 

[Mirnyx]

One would hope a rifle system that starts around $3500USD and gets more expensive from there would be a bit more robust than one that costs $500-1000.

I'm not buying the price point argument. Shooters can spend $3500+ on a trued 700 that is arguably no more robust than it was in factory form. Some of the custom 700 style rifles are very close in price to the AW / AX rifles.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

within 1 month in the bolt action rifles section:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...tion-rifles/227539-rem-700-rust-question.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-remington-223-sps-tactical-out-box-turd.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/226056-bad-out-box.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ton-700-5r-308-milspec-horrible-accuracy.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...787-intermittent-problem-remington-700-a.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-dropped-my-rem-700-bolt-ground-now-what.html

probably missed some, didn't even look in the gunsmithing section... point being how many of these threads do you see about AI?

One would hope a rifle system that starts around $3500USD and gets more expensive from there would be a bit more robust than one that costs $500-1000.

Nobody has said that AI's aren't more robust or reliable than 700s. Everybody knows they are 'overbuilt' for their intended use - combat. What has been said is that despite this, even AIs can "fail" (which to my peon brain means for some reason I can't keep shooting) in certain situations, with an example given and verified by multiple parties that were there.

Then a whole bunch of circle-jerking stupidity from there arguing about what is or is not a failure and what did or did not induce the failure mentioned above.

Mechanical shit can fail, and Murphy can strike anybody. The thing you get (in part) with an AI is a much, much longer MTBF than with a 700 with many of the known deficiencies of the 700 platform addressed in the AI's bombproof design. That does not mean, however, it is stoppage-proof.

Nobody has ripped on an AI or accused it of being a Savage folks - no reason to get all defensive.

That would be a very good point if they have had the same production numbers.... The 700 was released in 1962 and according to American Rifleman(in 2012) has produced well over 5 million 700's. If you look at it in that aspect you have to wonder if they are actually close in number of problems do to manufacture defect/design percentage wise. I don't own an AI but i'd definitely hope with the base price difference and production numbers that the percentage would dramaticly favor AI and I'm sure it does.

I'm not buying the price point argument. Shooters can spend $3500+ on a trued 700 that is arguably no more robust than it was in factory form. Some of the custom 700 style rifles are very close in price to the AW / AX rifles.

So, we get that AI's are much less prone to problems. Unless I got lost in the thread, which I may well have, the problems that I read about where not necessarily related to quality built R700's. In fact, one of my quotes specifically lists at least one failure/inadequacy as "out of box...."
LowLight even made a comment, I believe, about R700 failures being less likely from quality smiths, and more likely factory, or less quality smithing related.
Having read this thread through, I gather basically that an out of box AI has a reliability that many "custom" R700's may attain. The fact remains, this is likely to be reflected in the price of a N-I-B AI, and the price of a "custom" R700. Also, some of the "issues" cited in the R700's can be fore-stalled with other bolt options for the R700, which isn't a problem with the AI, as AI has incorporated "fixes" to those problems all ready in the standard AI.

I guess my take away from this thread is that comparing AI's to R700's is a bit like comparing apples to pears----similar in taste, but different fruits. (The Pears being the AI's, the Apples being R700's-----You can get different grades of R700's--factory, good smith built, other smith built....-----and there are more varieties of Apples, some being better suited for different things than others)

Thanks, LowLight and Zak for your information. Thanks to all the others who contributed meaningful information to the debate. Thanks to a few of you who didn't really contribute meaningful info, but did add entertainment value......

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Most of those "quality built" 700's have had the action trued, a good barrel installed, and put in a decent stock. Most of them haven't had any work done to them that increase the reliability which comes pretty much solely from the action and has nothing to do with the barrel or stock.

At the end of the day no matter what you do to a 700 action or what styled action you buy, it will not meet or exceed the reliability and robustness of the AI. There's a chance one day one could, but it has not happened yet.

 

[jeffbird]

My first R700 in 7 WSM was very nice and ran well. Once it was time for the barrel to be replaced, it was down time to send it back, order a barrel, and wait for the round trip. During barrel two, it started binding during ejection. By the time it was time for barrel three, I decided to sell that receiver and go with a Surgeon WSM receiver. It was a laser, but involved a long wait. A 7WSM built on a Surgeon LA was what I used in competition. It was reliable until the rear screw into the receiver came loose during a match. I could not figure out why I went from hits to all misses within a few shots. Then when it was over and I started to put it away, I noticed the receiver was loose in the stock (McMillan A5). The rifle was fine, that is just another point to watch for maintenance.

I decided to try an AI primarily because of the reputation for reliability and the ability to change barrels quickly without the downtime. After using the AI-AW for 2,800 rounds, the difference is real. The receiver is bonded to the rail, so that is one failure that I experienced with a R700 clone which will not be repeated. The R700 ejection issues have never happened despite hunting with it in hot, dry, and dusty conditions here in Texas during the extreme drought of the last several years.

Once it is time for a barrel change, it will be a same day switch rather than months of downtime. Once I decided for reasons I still cannot understand that I ought try spraying the trigger with Dryphite spray on dry graphite lube. It worked ok for a while - a few hundred rounds, and then started to gunk up. I'll take the blame for that one (Hint to others - don't do that). The trigger is easy to pull, which I put in a sonic cleaner, cleaned it up, and it has run 100%.

So fwiw, in my experience the AI-AW is more reliable and trouble-free.

Here is my AW right at 2,800 rounds, first three shots at 100 m including the cold bore shot:

 

[Mike_Honcho]

This thread is still a thing?

 

[selfbowhunter]

You could "glue in" a remington to an AICS chassis by simply drilling a couple holes to access the trigger pins. This used to be quite common in BR guns built on remingtons. Whoever barrels your gun could also fit another barrel for you without the action if the pertinent measurements are kept. If you look at the "what the pros use" thread, i dont REMEMBER seeing any AI rifles and almost everything was a remington clone. I would just as soon have a remington as MOST of the clones because i feel they offer few advantages over a remington that is built right. Its clear this "debate" is not going to be resolved but i dont feel like anyone should feel apprehensive of using a remington or clone to build on.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If you glue an action with a separate recoil lug into a stock good luck swapping barrels. Even with a pinned lug it's risky business, it needs to be removed to insure proper torque. But yes you could have the smith do a few barrels for any action.

Glueing doesn't solve the weak link of the extractor, bolt release, and bolt handle though. Add another $500 there for a PT&G bolt with M16 extractor and to have a side bolt stop installed. At this point you have $400 in a donor action, and $800 I'm trusting and other work to fix the weak links and it still isn't going to feed right from double stack mags and it still isn't going to run like an AI.

The "pros" don't use AI's because they don't sponsor shooters. Traveling and shooting comps is very expensive, are you going to spend $5k on a rifle or take a free or heavily discounted rifle if you're offered one? Most people are going to go with option 2. Just like with military stuff, just because it's what they use doesn't mean it's the best, it means it will work for the most part.

 

[InkedIan]

The "pros" don't use AI's because they don't sponsor shooters. Traveling and shooting comps is very expensive, are you going to spend $5k on a rifle or take a free or heavily discounted rifle if you're offered one? Most people are going to go with option 2. Just like with military stuff, just because it's what they use doesn't mean it's the best, it means it will work for the most part.

There are plenty of sponsered professional shooters in all types of shooting that aren't sponsered by a particluar rifle company and use whatever rifle they choose.

 

[Lowlight]

There are some using it, the issue is weight.

Most want a rifle right at or below 12LBS, the AI is too heavy. Is not a comp gun.

But the majority of the top tactical sponsored shooters get rifles. The top two teams are rifle companies after all.

if you want an example look up Ady Newberry and AI

 

[Niles Coyote]

I will say this, my Remington’s all improved in both reliability and smother feeding when I installed a certain AI product... hmmm...

As a side note I am a R700 lover and never considered owning a AI product as the only one I was remotely interested in was a AW but the price has kept me away, the AT may just change that...

 

[selfbowhunter]

If you glue an action with a separate recoil lug into a stock good luck swapping barrels. Even with a pinned lug it's risky business, it needs to be removed to insure proper torque. But yes you could have the smith do a few barrels for any action.

Glueing doesn't solve the weak link of the extractor, bolt release, and bolt handle though. Add another $500 there for a PT&G bolt with M16 extractor and to have a side bolt stop installed. At this point you have $400 in a donor action, and $800 I'm trusting and other work to fix the weak links and it still isn't going to feed right from double stack mags and it still isn't going to run like an AI.

The "pros" don't use AI's because they don't sponsor shooters. Traveling and shooting comps is very expensive, are you going to spend $5k on a rifle or take a free or heavily discounted rifle if you're offered one? Most people are going to go with option 2. Just like with military stuff, just because it's what they use doesn't mean it's the best, it means it will work for the most part.

If i wanted to win major comps i would use WHATEVER means necessary to do so equipment wise. Every single "weak link" you listed is very easily remedied. After your outlandish claims of remington failures in an earlier post, i have an extremely hard time giving you any credibility! I realize i dont personally know you but you made claims far and away greater than any i had ever heard FROM AN INDIVIDUAL. 20+ extractors "breaking", a half dozen or more bolt handles falling off in your hands.......REALLY??? Let me say that i loathe the remington extractor but the only failures i can remember were from used extractors being put back in after a bolt was trued. Most of the time tweaking would bring it back in line. I tend to push the envelope during load developement and have hammered on countless different bolts with a leather mallet. I broke a handle at its thinnest point where i had installed an aftermarket knob but i have yet to break a handle loose from a bolt with a HAMMER! I know it happens at times but six plus times to the same guy? I have owned, worked on, or built perhaps 100 different 700, 722, 721, etc rifles. Maybe you have had direct contact with several thousand????? Just sayin.

 

[Lowlight]

I have had several issues, just recently, and I have also competed with an AX and came in the Top 10.

Here, this custom rifle broke the bolt stop after 450 rounds during a match. (recent)



Going back a year, I had a trigger go down during the match at K&M on the mover stage. Another custom rifle.

It happens, even the best custom sticks can break, as people have noted with AI.

But I shoot them, it just depends what I am doing, what the match is, who is gonna be there. More than one decision goes into what rifle I use, and I know some of the other guys as well.

 

[InkedIan]

There are some using it, the issue is weight.

Most want a rifle right at or below 12LBS, the AI is too heavy. Is not a comp gun.

But the majority of the top tactical sponsored shooters get rifles. The top two teams are rifle companies after all.

if you want an example look up Ady Newberry and AI

Since you seem to have a frequent dialogue with AI reps. Do you know why they do not sponsor shooters?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It's obvious that you're going to believe what you want and have your mind made up that the Remington action cannot fail. It's called bias.

Whatever you choose to believe those failures were real and not made up. The only 700 that I still own that gets shot much is my 700P that I've had for 6 years or better. It's seen 4-5 extractors alone and is still on the factory tube. The bolt handle is also welded on and reinforced with screws because it pulled off after a few hundred rounds because of the shitty solder job Remington did. I file all my receipts so it would be no problem for me to see exactly how many I have that say "weld on bolt handle, reinforce with torx screws" if you'd like an exact count. I also know that I sold two bolts on here with the bolts pulled off needing repair and replaced them with PTG's. You're more than welcome to search my posts and see for yourself.

 

[Lowlight]

The Accuracy International AX/AW, etc is not a competition rifle. So why would they sponsor a shooter in competitions, that is not their market. It's a military rifle.

There are a few people that cross over that get assistance from AI in other areas. And you do see a ton of AI parts and accessories in matches, Chassis, Magazines.

Not to mention, since the PRS, there is a lot of guys with their hands out. They get hit up a lot, and AI is not prone to just giving away rifles. That stuff is used for demos with the military and police departments. Plus they know, if they wanted someone to shoot their stuff they can just call me and ask me to do it.

It sort of sells itself, if guys have the money, they generally have the rifle. In this market, Sniper's Hide, it is the Holy Grail of Sniper Rifles. No other combat sniper rifle has the reputation of the AI.

 

[selfbowhunter]

It's obvious that you're going to believe what you want and have your mind made up that the Remington action cannot fail. It's called bias.

Whatever you choose to believe those failures were real and not made up. The only 700 that I still own that gets shot much is my 700P that I've had for 6 years or better. It's seen 4-5 extractors alone and is still on the factory tube. The bolt handle is also welded on and reinforced with screws because it pulled off after a few hundred rounds because of the shitty solder job Remington did. I file all my receipts so it would be no problem for me to see exactly how many I have that say "weld on bolt handle, reinforce with torx screws" if you'd like an exact count. I also know that I sold two bolts on here with the bolts pulled off needing repair and replaced them with PTG's. You're more than welcome to search my posts and see for yourself.

I NEVER said remingtons dont or cant fail! Explain to me how/why your pss has "broken" 4 or 5 extractors? Why havnt you replaced such a problem with a mini16 extractor? I have several bolt with welded bolt handles that never failed in factory soldered form. I prefer to do it up front so its not an issue. This debate started out as what a 700 or clone could be vs. what an AI already is. All your so called "failures" seem to be factory issues that are easily remedied. Apples to assholes comparison.

 

[Lowlight]

If you go overseas, you find more people using AI rifles in the more traditional competitions, like Ady Newberry did.

in the UK shooting Benchrest Darrel Evans, shooting a 6.5x47 out of an AI AW came in 1st with a .381 inches. He was in the Factory Sporter Class.

We just don't hear about them as much over here. I believe Ady can be considered an AI sponsored shooter.

 

[InkedIan]

The Accuracy International AX/AW, etc is not a competition rifle. So why would they sponsor a shooter in competitions, that is not their market. It's a military rifle.

There are a few people that cross over that get assistance from AI in other areas. And you do see a ton of AI parts and accessories in matches, Chassis, Magazines.

Not to mention, since the PRS, there is a lot of guys with their hands out. They get hit up a lot, and AI is not prone to just giving away rifles. That stuff is used for demos with the military and police departments. Plus they know, if they wanted someone to shoot their stuff they can just call me and ask me to do it.

It sort of sells itself, if guys have the money, they generally have the rifle. In this market, Sniper's Hide, it is the Holy Grail of Sniper Rifles. No other combat sniper rifle has the reputation of the AI.

I see and understand your train of thought, but I saw the AI rep at shot show say they will be offering rifles in 243, 260, and 6.5 creedmoor which to my knowledge isn't used by any military but are popular match cartridges. So they are obviously aiming at tactical comps for civilian sales...

 

[InkedIan]

If you go overseas, you find more people using AI rifles in the more traditional competitions, like Ady Newberry did.

in the UK shooting Benchrest Darrel Evans, shooting a 6.5x47 out of an AI AW came in 1st with a .381 inches. He was in the Factory Sporter Class.

We just don't hear about them as much over here. I believe Ady can be considered an AI sponsored shooter.

Ok, was just curious as to their train of thought in not sponsoring comp shooters. Guess they are...

 

[Mirnyx]

I see and understand your train of thought, but I saw the AI rep at shot show say they will be offering rifles in 243, 260, and 6.5 creedmoor which to my knowledge isn't used by any military but are popular match cartridges. So they are obviously aiming at tactical comps for civilian sales...

Why are they obviously aiming at match shooters? Perhaps those are simply popular calibers enjoyed by many long range shooters. In the grand scheme of things, match shooters are a very small slice of the pie.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I NEVER said remingtons dont or cant fail! Explain to me how/why your pss has "broken" 4 or 5 extractors? Why havnt you replaced such a problem with a mini16 extractor? I have several bolt with welded bolt handles that never failed in factory soldered form. I prefer to do it up front so its not an issue. This debate started out as what a 700 or clone could be vs. what an AI already is. All your so called "failures" seem to be factory issues that are easily remedied. Apples to assholes comparison.

Like I said, your mind is made up. They failed because they are weak, most failed running factory FGMM ammo even. If I'm going to spend a bunch of money to try to make an action work then I'm going to start with a different action from the get go. It's just dumb to spend $400 on an action, $350 on truing, $150 on having the handle reinforced, $150 on an extractor upgrade, and $150 on a side bolt release just to fix its short comings. Then another $200 on a bolt knob job and scope rail. That's $1400 in a Remington action... That's why my 700P was fixed as it broke. Extractors are cheap compared to having the upgrade done.

 

[selfbowhunter]

If you go overseas, you find more people using AI rifles in the more traditional competitions, like Ady Newberry did.

in the UK shooting Benchrest Darrel Evans, shooting a 6.5x47 out of an AI AW came in 1st with a .381 inches. He was in the Factory Sporter Class.

We just don't hear about them as much over here. I believe Ady can be considered an AI sponsored shooter.

.381 at what distance? What else would compete in a "factory sporter" class that cost $5k? I would be willing to bet a factory 40x in 6.5x47 would shoot every bit as well as the AI accuracy wise. Under their parameters what constitutes "factory"? Another meaningless comparison.

 

[selfbowhunter]

Like I said, your mind is made up. They failed because they are weak, most failed running factory FGMM ammo even. If I'm going to spend a bunch of money to try to make an action work then I'm going to start with a different action from the get go. It's just dumb to spend $400 on an action, $350 on truing, $150 on having the handle reinforced, $150 on an extractor upgrade, and $150 on a side bolt release just to fix its short comings. Then another $200 on a bolt knob job and scope rail. That's $1400 in a Remington action... That's why my 700P was fixed as it broke. Extractors are cheap compared to having the upgrade done.

You have YET to give ANY detail on how they failed! Your mind is made up so cook your books however necessary to make you feel better. Most of your prices are rediculous regarding the remington. A whole new ptg one piece bolt with an extractor is less than $200 if you use your existing firing pin assembly and dont get it fluted.

 

[Lowlight]

@selfbowhunter

Fuck off, I am not making some sort of grand statement, I just copied the information on match shooters using an AI... it was a 1000 yard bench rest in preparation for the World Cup in France or something. It was a UK article...

the only point was, there are some traditional competition shooters using an AI... that was it. I know Ady, he is on here, and he made headlines using his AI, and I had not heard of the other guy.

I don't give two shits about the discipline, the size of the group or your bullshit cause you have you panties in a twist.

 

[InkedIan]

Why are they obviously aiming at match shooters? Perhaps those are simply popular calibers enjoyed by many long range shooters. In the grand scheme of things, match shooters are a very small slice of the pie.

Well the trend i've been seeing is that shooters that shoot long range and elr for fun stick with the larger calibers so they can double it as a hunting rifle and the comp shooters are shooting the smaller cartridges because of the lack of recoil, trajectory similar to the larger cartridges, and cheaper to shoot high volume... Of course there are exceptions(varmint hunters like myself) to that and thats really just my opinion.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

They fucking broke, what part of that don't you understand? They broke and the bolt would no longer remove brass from the chamber it's as simple as that. I didn't measure the exact failure point of them. I cleaned the broken pieces out of the rifle and put a new one in.

If you were the strongest swimmer, I'd hate to see the result if another one made it first.

 

[Lowlight]

6.5 Creedmoor is the new 308... that is why they are offering the 6.5s now too.

Also if you find old literature on the AE MK 1 it was offered in 243, AI used to offer that for years

 

[EricCartmann]

I respect AI more now that I know they do not sponsor all you "operators" at these competitions.

Shooting is a sport that does NOT need Industry sponsors. Industry sponsorship just creates a bunch of free loading "Operators" that will give their endorsement for a particular product because they get it for free. These "Operators" in turn create a Fanbois Population that flood the lands with all their "gospel".

I have always like AI, only thing that stopped me from getting one is the price. A lot of AI's pricing is not even justified, (like their mono-pods), but I don't blame them for charging as much as they can. If they can get buyers, that is all that matters. I myself might even have an AI in my future, would be nice just to own one, even if I do not shoot that much.

Let's be honest though, AI's do nothing special over a R700 other than being more reliable. However, I can soup up my R700 with a stock of my choice, the barrel of my choice, and the extractor/bolt of my choice and still be about $2000 under the cheapest AI... but at the end of the day, it will just be a souped up Honda, when what I really want is a M3 Straight from the Factory.

 

[selfbowhunter]

@selfbowhunter

Fuck off, I am not making some sort of grand statement, I just copied the information on match shooters using an AI... it was a 1000 yard bench rest in preparation for the World Cup in France or something. It was a UK article...

the only point was, there are some traditional competition shooters using an AI... that was it. I know Ady, he is on here, and he made headlines using his AI, and I had not heard of the other guy.

I don't give two shits about the discipline, the size of the group or your bullshit cause you have you panties in a twist.

Why dont you fuck off. If you think he shot a .381 group at 1000yds, your even less intelligent than i thought.

 

[selfbowhunter]

They fucking broke, what part of that don't you understand? They broke and the bolt would no longer remove brass from the chamber it's as simple as that. I didn't measure the exact failure point of them. I cleaned the broken pieces out of the rifle and put a new one in.

If you were the strongest swimmer, I'd hate to see the result if another one made it first.

Your a LIAR. 20 plus remington extractors that broke into pieces......give me a "break" ! Failing to extract and breaking into pieces are quite different. Look in the mirror if you would like to see the results of inferior genetics.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You're getting dumber by the post. When an extractor breaks, what do you think it will no longer do? Please, enlighten me. I'd love to hear this wisdom.

 

[EricCartmann]

Why dont you fuck off. If you think he shot a .381 group at 1000yds, your even less intelligent than i thought.

.381 MOA at 1000 yards is difficult but not impossible. I saw a video of an old man WWII Sniper that just recently shot .5 MOA at 1000 yards, this after decades of not shooting and having to be retrained to shoot.

 

[InkedIan]

.381 MOA at 1000 yards is difficult but not impossible. I saw a video of an old man WWII Sniper that just recently shot .5 MOA at 1000 yards, this after decades of not shooting and having to be retrained to shoot.

Lowlight said .381 inches.

 

[EricCartmann]

Lowlight said .381 inches.

LOL... well don't you know? He is GOD! hahahaah

 

[TacosGigante]

So much fighting over what is the second best platform, when the king was before you all along.

 

[peaceatwar]

They fucking broke, what part of that don't you understand? They broke and the bolt would no longer remove brass from the chamber it's as simple as that. I didn't measure the exact failure point of them. I cleaned the broken pieces out of the rifle and put a new one in.

If you were the strongest swimmer, I'd hate to see the result if another one made it first.

You are mean.

 

[selfbowhunter]

You're getting dumber by the post. When an extractor breaks, what do you think it will no longer do? Please, enlighten me. I'd love to hear this wisdom.

As frank eluded to before, an AI extractor can be rendered temporarily inoperable by brass shavings or pieces of primer cup etc. they are NOT "broken" but are inoperable. The same applies to a remington extractor though they are far different by design. You are a bonafied gun retard and have no idea what your talking about. I cant dumb anything down to to a level that you can possibly understand it in text. Perhaps someone nearby can draw you a crayon picture. As frank so thoughtfully advised me after failing to bow down to his greatness..........FUCK OFF!