If this is what Lowlight was refering to then his info was a bit off. Evans Sets UK Benchrest Records with Accuracy Int?l Tactical Rifle « Daily Bulletin
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AI AW vs 700 style actions ...which fails more?
- Thread starter 300WSM
- Start date
YOUR BEST ANSWER is to call people LIARS, INFERIOR GENETICS, because you don't agree , it is easy for me to decide who i may listen to for information and it is not you
why dont you look at the post i was replying to before you jump on the bandwagon. Better yet, listen to the guy and see where all the knowledge gets you.
this heated discussion does not promote hide members or the sport of long range shooting , sorry the discussion is great, BUT THE LANGUAGE HAS FAILED TO PROMOTE OUR SPORT or THE FOLKS ON THE HIDE
USING ...LIAR... INFERIOR GENETICS..ETC IS THAT ALL YOU HAVE ?
USING ...LIAR... INFERIOR GENETICS..ETC IS THAT ALL YOU HAVE ?
I don't really understand why this is such a big discussion.
So the extractor broke on a 700 -- I hit the range with a parts kit and I can replace that in 10-15 minutes...That's why god gave us PTG bolts and Sako extractors...
The performance on ANY rifle comes down to the smith/"manufacturing process" which still involves, du nu nu nuuuu, a smith...So at the end of the day, the rifle's performance is based on that smith's ability to do his/her job.
AI's have no magic steel which makes them capable of performing at 12000 rounds...I can melonite a barrel and get the same performance, it just takes longer.
Would I said AI's action is superior? Sure...Not disagreeing but, there's not a wizard at the end of an assembly line waving his wand each time an AI is finished.
Can you fix an AI if it breaks down in the field? I imagine so, will let you know when I buy an AT in a few months but, I know for a fact I can fix a Remington's.
At the end of the day, I'd say the design of the AI action is superior but, to rate performance on two unequal builds is rather dumb...Especially when there's no production secrets to be had or not had...
Again, since Wizards aren't real and AI doesn't hold a design patent for the Steel, nothing is impossible to attain on a 700...Except for the action, of course.
So the extractor broke on a 700 -- I hit the range with a parts kit and I can replace that in 10-15 minutes...That's why god gave us PTG bolts and Sako extractors...
The performance on ANY rifle comes down to the smith/"manufacturing process" which still involves, du nu nu nuuuu, a smith...So at the end of the day, the rifle's performance is based on that smith's ability to do his/her job.
AI's have no magic steel which makes them capable of performing at 12000 rounds...I can melonite a barrel and get the same performance, it just takes longer.
Would I said AI's action is superior? Sure...Not disagreeing but, there's not a wizard at the end of an assembly line waving his wand each time an AI is finished.
Can you fix an AI if it breaks down in the field? I imagine so, will let you know when I buy an AT in a few months but, I know for a fact I can fix a Remington's.
At the end of the day, I'd say the design of the AI action is superior but, to rate performance on two unequal builds is rather dumb...Especially when there's no production secrets to be had or not had...
Again, since Wizards aren't real and AI doesn't hold a design patent for the Steel, nothing is impossible to attain on a 700...Except for the action, of course.
thanks to the input from members here like REDNECKBMXER24 I DID, I BOUGHT ...WAIT FOR IT YOUR FAV.... AI. AW .308 FOR MY STARTER RIFLE .I THINK I MAKE A GREAT CHOICE also have a rifle being built by GAP. ready in a few months, I am very happy with my choice,if at any time there is a problem with the AW. i will PM you, INSTANTLY DONT WORRY , SO YOU CAN BLOG YOUR WISTOM TO THE WORLD
it was not that article it was for a work up prior to that recording setting match.
I just copied it exactly... i have no clue what the particulars were.
But if he is gonna attack everyone over this, he can have a vacation... the guy still set a record with an AI.
YOU GUYS LOVE YOUR GEAR WAY TOO MUCH! (not all you guys just most)
This thread and just about every other gun thread proves that gun guy fashion queens are no different than any other fashion queens. You have become emotionally attached to your gear like my wife does her shoes. THEY ARE JUST SHOES! Not only do you guys love your gear, but have become slaves to it! You think your gear is King, and as a good slave you have to defend your King at all cost.
Now you all are cutting each other's throats and calling each other liars because we all have different experiences with the same gear.
LONG LIVE THE KING! (my gear is the king)
This thread and just about every other gun thread proves that gun guy fashion queens are no different than any other fashion queens. You have become emotionally attached to your gear like my wife does her shoes. THEY ARE JUST SHOES! Not only do you guys love your gear, but have become slaves to it! You think your gear is King, and as a good slave you have to defend your King at all cost.
Now you all are cutting each other's throats and calling each other liars because we all have different experiences with the same gear.
LONG LIVE THE KING! (my gear is the king)
Oh, I am too...Eyeing the AT for a 308/300/338...I just don't quite comprehend what all the arguing is about.
Both products are comprised of steel. There is no magic steel. There are no wizards...AI hasn't even patented their barrels and/or process (according to a patent search)...So, nothing here is exactly proprietary other than the action.
If an AI barrel can still perform at 10k rounds, I can get that same performance in a Remington 700 by meloniting or something similar -- It's not magic.
The only part of an AI that actually can't be "copied" is the action so, again...All manufacturing aspects of the AI can be reproduced...Since they're not magically forged in a Dragon's bowels and enchanted by a wizard...This is real life.
I went back and looked the way it was written was,
100/1000 yard Benchrest competition, so the .381 inches must have been at 100, but he still shot a record score. Or it could have been .381 MOA and they misprinted it. I grabbed it and moved on, I didn't analyze it. I just knew several UK shooters were using AIs.
The article I used was a UK Magazine article on the work up prior to the teams going to France for the World BR Comp.
100/1000 yard Benchrest competition, so the .381 inches must have been at 100, but he still shot a record score. Or it could have been .381 MOA and they misprinted it. I grabbed it and moved on, I didn't analyze it. I just knew several UK shooters were using AIs.
The article I used was a UK Magazine article on the work up prior to the teams going to France for the World BR Comp.
Not trying to troll, but it was a rebarreled AI.
"About Darrel’s 6.5×47 Accuracy International
My Accuracy International AW (AI-AW), a military rifle system, started life as a .308 Winchester when I first bought it. But after a lot of reading I decided to buy a 6.5×47 Lapua barrel for it. As you know the AI-AW rifle system is a very good switch-barrel design, so after a phone call to Graeham Clark at Sporting Services I bought a Border Barrels 24″ fluted barrel in 6.5×47 Lapua. My .308 barrel is now in my gun safe. After seeing how the 6.5×47 barrel shoots, I doubt the .308 tube will ever go on again."
ya, and...
Show me where guys are talking about a Stock Remington ?
I have at least 3 different barrels for several of my AIs... that is the point of competition, and the rifle to use the best barrels. Barrels are perishable are they not.
Show me where guys are talking about a Stock Remington ?
I have at least 3 different barrels for several of my AIs... that is the point of competition, and the rifle to use the best barrels. Barrels are perishable are they not.
AI's can come factory with the exact same barrel! Many have Border barrels from the factory. Nothing special about that.
Isn't that the beauty of the platform, especially the new one, it's a switch barrel rifle.
The fact you can change your barrel on the firing line or in your garage in a matter of minutes with the old style and seconds with the new one.
I changed the barrel of a AXMC at SHOT in a suit in less than 2 minutes.
Dismissing or overlooking a feature of the rifle does it a dis-service.
As I noted, barrels are a perishable item with any rifle
The fact you can change your barrel on the firing line or in your garage in a matter of minutes with the old style and seconds with the new one.
I changed the barrel of a AXMC at SHOT in a suit in less than 2 minutes.
Dismissing or overlooking a feature of the rifle does it a dis-service.
As I noted, barrels are a perishable item with any rifle
With AI being an English company and all ... maybe calling it King is fitting?!?!
Barrels are consumable, why shift discussion in that direction when this thread is about action reliability?
Why can't the action be copied? Didn't Badger pretty much copy the AI action with their 2008? While all manufacturing aspects of the AI could be reproduced, clearly they aren't.
Have you read the thread?
There are myriads of posts throughout this forum about the "superiority" of an AI barrel as opposed to a Remington's. About how the AI barrel will perform at 10,000 rounds...Bla bla bla, bullshit bullshit bullshit.
If we're calling all of them perishable and finally placing them as equals then ultimately the ONLY difference between the rifles is the action.
If the Badger M2013 is a direct copy than the swap barrel system won't be that far behind...
So again, the only difference between the two is the smith at the end of the line...Good smith/good process = good rifle. Bad smith/bad process = shitty rifle.
It really is that simple.
If you are comparing a 308 to a 308... but guys are also talking about competition, and nobody is competing with a 308 anymore.
Most barrels can get 10,000 rounds out of a 308, but across the board, a stock remington barrel has nothing on a Stock AI Barrel.
Stock AI 308 Barrel
Most barrels can get 10,000 rounds out of a 308, but across the board, a stock remington barrel has nothing on a Stock AI Barrel.
Stock AI 308 Barrel
If you are comparing a 308 to a 308... but guys are also talking about competition, and nobody is competing with a 308 anymore.
Most barrels can get 10,000 rounds out of a 308, but across the board, a stock remington barrel has nothing on a Stock AI Barrel.
Stock AI 308 Barrel
Aren't you the one that said one 5 shot group means nothing? Also not a really fair comparison considering how much AI barrels are. However, my stock Remington 5R milspec has done that a couple of times for 5-shot groups (fit inside a dime) and so has my buddy's R700 SPS.
It's not just AI that is made from the Fires of Mordor by Elves.. GAP, Larue, [insert your king here], are also made from the fires of Mordor by Elves! Fashion Queens will remind you of this! Long live the King!
Jesus......
Here's the difference.....the odds are good that virtually any AI .308 barrel is capable of performance close to that.
Can you say the same thing for a non cherry picked Rem?
This thread needs a lock because there's no talking sense here.
No doubt.
So here's a question.
I'm not knocking AI in any way, again I actually plan on buying one...However, is there anything special in their manufacturing process that sets them above the rest?
Obviously, they're accurate. Obviously, the switch barrel is a major plus...But, what is proprietary on that rifle to only AI?
If I go out right now and make a 300 Win Mag, I can do so, meloniting included for $3500 and have arguably the same accuracy for $2000 less.
Obviously, the manufacturer guarantee is a big deal...
Why is the AI such an improvement over a well made Remington 700? The switch barrel NOW is obviously a good improvement but, beyond that?
I'm asking you because you generally have the most market experience in this thread...Not soapboxing this at all just absolutely curious what sets the AI apart from a good smith.
Cherry picked?
Any gunsmith with a brain can thread/ream an accurate barrel...Sometimes you get a dud.
The chances of a dud are infinitesimal especially within the bounds of this conversation so...I fail to see how that's relevant.
Well this thread starter out with a simple question - which action is most reliable, fashion or no fashion! So, are we any closer?
I almost fell out of my chair. I'd take a savage over one of those clanky binding sorry excuses for a rifle.
I have read the thread and just searched it trying to find the "myriads" of posts discussing the superiority of AI barrels. Couldn't find anything but maybe my search fu isn't good.
Hypothetically, Are we talking AI barrel vs stock Remington barrel or AI barrel vs custom barrel? Some AI's come with Bartlein and doesn't get much better than Bartlein regardless of the action it's attached to. I would like to think the stock AI barrel is of higher quality than a stock 700 barrel but maybe not. Either way this AI slave understands barrels are perishable and once again would like to point out the title of this thread: AI AW vs 700 style actions ...which fails more?
Why I added a 15 SHOT there...
I really have no reason to waste ammo and "group" for people, but I threw in a 15 SHOT group so ... eat it.
I really have no reason to waste ammo and "group" for people, but I threw in a 15 SHOT group so ... eat it.
Stock for stock, of course the Remington loses...But, stock for stock, prior to the AT or MC, you were discussing a $5k+ gun a $2k+ gun...Which aren't in the same league by a longshot. Same goes with the bolt.
When these 2 setups are in the same league is when you go with that Badger or that Stiller/Defiance/Whatever, with the melonited Bartlein, with the trigger of your choice...THEN these rifles are on an equal playing field...Only the Remington can be had for 3k as opposed to 7k. (For the MC)
Switch barrel is a temptation, it absolutely is but, for 2x the cost?
This is when you get into manufacturing superiority and start to look beyond the semantics.
What's proprietary about the AI that I can't get ANYWHERE else?
Before SHOT the answer was: Nothing.
After SHOT the answer is: Switch Barrel.
Is a switch barrel "system" worth the green? IDK.
Now this is getting very interesting - ruger or savage
Savage is a good (though not great) action with some great accuracy, good lefty support, and the ability to easily switch barrels. Rugers are...guns.
Now this is getting very interesting - ruger or savage
Savage. Some of their competition models come with longer barrels so you can drive them in the ground further to support your tomato plants.
Once you go past a certain price point, a bit of your ego is automatically factored in on the invoice.
To question my weapon of choice is to question my decisions
To question my decisions is to question my intelligence
To question my intelligence is to call me stupid
To call me stupid...wait, did you just call me stupid?...look here you random jerk bastard....
(And that is how the internet works)
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Frank, what do you think of the Remington MSR receiver? Have you got the chance to run one long enough to make an informed decision? It looks like a total design change from the 700. I am just curious how it stacks up?
the only MSR stuff I have seen is $18k or more... I have no seen a single MSR on the street being used.
I disagree.
There aren't as many AI's in the market as there are Remington's...Of course there's a skew...So you can't actually really judge this based on reliability.
DUH, you hear about 5x the amount of Remington failures because there are 20-30x the amount of Remingtons on the market.
The irony is that all of you showcase that but, fail to realize the sheer availability of the Remington vs the AI.
Ultimately, you're basing your argument on bullshit stats of what you can search for as opposed to any real #'s.
I want the real #'s, SCALED PROPERLY, before I form a conclusion.
Can you fix an AI's bolt on the go like a Remington's? Extractor et al?
Those are the soup to nuts questions that matter but, nobody is answering them...So, again, strongly disagree.
Ok, just wondering. That might be a more interesting comparison once the MSR has been put through it's paces.
You guy's debating that the 700 is just as reliable as the AI is a little crazy. You are comparing an action that was designed for deer hunters against an action that was designed for war. I don't get it. Apples to oranges.
Yes it is probably more reliable design
especially under harsh conditions like sandstorm etc.
JSF said:
I don't think there's many, if any, posters that really feel that way.
I think the thread went WAY off the rails when folks got into a poo slinging match about the sheer possibility that an AI might fail, with an example given and supported, then refuted, then argued about what a failure is or is not, then the whole thing augered into the ground.
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