American Ammunition Company 77gr SMK HPBT

[gopherslayer]

No cracked cases today. Primers were just starting to flatten. 18” AR as fast as I could jerk the trigger for 9 shots at 317 yards gave me a group I could cover with my hand. I switched to my Salvage hog hunter and proceeded to turn out a 4” group for 8 shots at 325 yards.

My bench rest. My elbow had no support but it was good enough to make me giggle. Ass on the ground and fore end on the arm of the chair.

 

[yosemite_sam]

Does this stuff still suck? OP is from 2 years ago. Still having issues w/ cracked cases and velocity spread? I see the post above but would like a few more data points.

 

[PBWalsh]

It does not suck. I'm getting consistent SDs in the mid teens.

 

[houndog]

Have never chrnono'd it so I can't speak to how consistent the velocity is. But I haven't experienced any cracked cases shooting it out of an AR.

Was just at the range today shooting this ammo through my LaRue 16" upper. Was getting 5 shot groups mostly between .8" and 1.25" at 100 yards. (Yeah, there were also a couple of crap 2" groups as well, but I suspect that was shooter error). For the price, I'm not aware of any .223/5.56 ammo that's comparable.

 

[NCgreentick]

This ammo has been out of stock for a long time now.

 

[PBWalsh]

The 77OTM is what my post was referring to btw. They are usually in stock for $.62/round.

 

[bfoosh006]

Does this stuff still suck? OP is from 2 years ago. Still having issues w/ cracked cases and velocity spread? I see the post above but would like a few more data points.

Another thread from ARF.com
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/A...-ammo-/16-779653/&page=9&anc=8664063#i8664063

The first batches were to hot, and the powder charge weight was high... since those hot batches, the powder charge weight has been throttled back.
The cracked cases, were most likely a bad "batch" of brass.. and while I have seen those pictures of the cases, I do believe PSA / AAC replaced the ammo.
FWIW...The bad cases seemed to be fairly limited in circulation. ( ? ) , I say that because I didn't read about a lot of them.

None of my recent batches had any issues at all.

As for the "issue" with OEM dinged cases.. from the original production start up, that problem is gone for me... the production equipment has worn / smoothed in , and isn't "pinching" brass anymore. ( at least none of my last cases )
However... if you "need" to have your ammo perfectly aligned in the 20rd boxes... they do still come fairly loose in the boxes.
That has never been an issue to me. I always remove them from the boxes and store them loose in .30cal ammo cans.
I don't like wasting time , at the range un-packaging ammo.

For that matter, I would like to be able to buy various PSA / AAC OEM ammo in bulk, 500rd boxes ! Lol


Honestly, over the past 6 month's the AAC 77gr OTM has been what I have been buying. ( Along with the 75gr SBBT )

Someone a long time ago said they were going to use up their bulk 55gr FMJ, and replace it with the PSA / AAC 77gr OTM... and that seemed like a good idea for "resupply" . The 77gr OTM does give me good value to performance ratio.

Especially at the 100yd, 200yd and 300yd ranges I frequent. I will admit I haven't had time to take it out to 500+... but the trigger time ( practice ) at the shorter ranges has been in valuable... at a lower cost.

 

[bfoosh006]

This ammo has been out of stock for a long time now.

In the past few months I have bought numerous cases of the 77gr OTM.
It does sell out fast however... what is your idea of "This ammo has been out of stock for a long time now." ?

 

[MikeMiller]

If it shows out of stock check back in a few days. It comes back in stock as fast as it goes out of stock

Someone asked about SD on the ammo. Practical match ammo. Not as good as best handloads but for field use to 600 yards you will be happy

Now if they could make it not so fng dirty it would be a go to ammo for most things

 

[NCgreentick]

Sorry, specifically the SMK's have been OOS for a long time. The thread title has drifted to include both 77 offerings.

 

[gopherslayer]

Sorry, specifically the SMK's have been OOS for a long time. The thread title has drifted to include both 77 offerings.

Back in stock today. Better break out the CC.

 

[saddlerocker]

My barrel likes the 75gr Hornady bullet best.
Not sure why it gets the blue box instead of fancy "precision" or "match" like the black box.

It is the hornady T1C as I understand.
It gets lumped in with 55gr fmj blue box lol

Same price as their 77OTM.
I would think a proven 75gr Hornady bullet would get some love

 

[NCgreentick]

Back in stock today. Better break out the CC.

Monica.
I check every day and the first day I complain, it comes back in stock.

 

[ZA206]

They need to offer the 77 OTM in the blue ammo can specials! That’s some kick ass ammo for the price!

 

[Sixfivesavage]

For those that have shot both....is the SMK load worth the 20 cents over the regular hornady made 77 grain bullet offering?

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

I do not think that the 77gr otm is made by hornady?

They have stated that some of their bullets were made under hornady guidance, but im guessing that means made by PSA to Hornadys specs. Meaning you are getting PSA QC on the bullets themselves.

I did get better precision at 100M with the 77smk over the otm, averaging .2mil when I do my part vs .25-.3mil for the otm. I also got much tighter vertical dispersion at longer range with the 77smk, but per the above posts I'm thinking that changes lot to lot at least for the 77otm.

 

[saddlerocker]

The 75 is Hornady, 77OTM is AAC made supposedly.

In my gun the 75 is near identical to the 77SMK.
The 77OTM is a bit worse.
I've been keeping a spreadsheet.
75gr H .69 MOA. Smallest .38
77SMK .68 MOA. Smallest .38
77OTM .82 MOA. Smallest .6

This rifle has some gremlins I am still trying to figure out, so not perfect and I have counted all groups that seemed at all legit. Even as I was just learning to shoot.

 

[ZA206]

I think their 77 OTM bullet is Made by Hornady.

It might be their 77 SMK clone bullet that can only be bought as a component at Midsouth.

 

[saddlerocker]

I think their 77 OTM bullet is Made by Hornady.

It might be their 77 SMK clone bullet that can only be bought as a component at Midsouth.

Black Hills uses the Hornady 77 in their red box stuff now. Just called "77gr OTM".
Not sure if the SMK is only used in MK262-Mod1-C Mil packaged stuff or what.

Hornady does have an analogue to almost every AAC bullet that is not explicitly labeled as Sierra or Nosler etc...
I personally dont think the 77OTM is made by Hornady *EDIT: apparently it is**. It just doesn't shoot as well as the SMK for most people, and Hornadys 77 does.

 

[ZA206]

Black Hills uses the Hornady 77 in their red box stuff now. Just called "77gr OTM".
Not sure if the SMK is only used in MK262-Mod1-C Mil packaged stuff or what.

Hornady does have an analogue to almost every AAC bullet that is not explicitly labeled as Sierra or Nosler etc...
I personally dont think the 77OTM is made by Hornady. It just doesn't shoot as well as the SMK for most people, and Hornadys 77 does.

It says on PSA’s website that the 77 OTM bullet is made by Hornady….

 

[saddlerocker]

It says on PSA’s website that the 77 OTM bullet is made by Hornady….

So it does.... It used to just say Developed with Hornady.
They musta just added that it is made-by Hornady.
The 75gr projectile also now says made by Hornady

Makes you wonder if AAC is actually producing any projectiles yet.

70gr TSX and 77TMK in stock now fyi

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

It says on PSA’s website that the 77 OTM bullet is made by Hornady….

It looks like they've recently added that language to all the OTM bullets across their lineup. Same with the "sabre blade black tip" and even the FMJ. Basically everything that is not Barnes or Sierra.

I like that, gives me more confidence that the bullets will be produced consistently and perform downrange.

 

[Sum Ting Wong]

This happened in my .223 AI yesterday, two rounds out of 30. *Edit* I only shot 10 rounds out of this 77gr OTM box, was shooting 69gr OTM the rest of the time.

 

[saddlerocker]

This happened in my .223 AI yesterday, two rounds out of 30. *Edit* I only shot 10 rounds out of this 77gr OTM box, was shooting 69gr OTM the rest of the time.
View attachment 8449132

Looks familiar.
Do you remember about when it was purchased?
Fyi PSA never answered my email via their website about my ruptured 77OTM case.

 

[Kadams1563]

This happened in my .223 AI yesterday, two rounds out of 30. *Edit* I only shot 10 rounds out of this 77gr OTM box, was shooting 69gr OTM the rest of the time.
View attachment 8449132

Name is fitting.

 

[clcustom1911]

It does not suck. I'm getting consistent SDs in the mid teens.

Yup. It's probably the best ammo for the price point anywhere. Every time I check velocity my SD is about 15 and ES is 40-50. Good enough for 2/3 IPSC steel at 725m.

 

[Sum Ting Wong]

Looks familiar.
Do you remember about when it was purchased?
Fyi PSA never answered my email via their website about my ruptured 77OTM case.

Nope, I've ordered it a few different times. I emailed them, we'll see if they reply. I've shot a bunch of this and the 77gr TMK, first time I've seen this.

 

[TheHorta]

I’ve burned through 1600-1700 AAC 77OTM out of 3-4 different gas guns without a single issue, out to ~700 yards at Steel City Precision here in AL. I’m not a precision guy, but I have/had no problem consistently hitting IPSC plates at 500-700y with this stuff out of a 14.5” Proof CF AR.

Now that I’ve jinxed myself, I’m sure the rifle will explode on my next trip.

 

[5RWill]

Nope, I've ordered it a few different times. I emailed them, we'll see if they reply. I've shot a bunch of this and the 77gr TMK, first time I've seen this.

There is a dude in the psa section on Reddit that will get you squared away fairly quickly. I had 300 of the 75gr that were popping primers. I had run through about half. He sent me 300 of the 77gr OTM in return

 

[bfoosh006]

Sorry, specifically the SMK's have been OOS for a long time. The thread title has drifted to include both 77 offerings.

You are correct, this thread has drifted to both 77gr offerings... I was wrong about saying the "77gr" has been instock frequently, since I wasn't talking about the correct round ! My bad.

 

[bfoosh006]

This happened in my .223 AI yesterday, two rounds out of 30. *Edit* I only shot 10 rounds out of this 77gr OTM box, was shooting 69gr OTM the rest of the time.
View attachment 8449132

Do you have the lot number ?

 

[5RWill]

New Reddit post yesterday. 77s and a lot of them. Lot# SCL2CC241

 

[saddlerocker]

Would be nice to know when that Lot# was from.

I just ordered a little of the 75, 77otm, 77smk, 77tmk to try the newer lots.....
Probably not buying anymore if these issues continue. (I have had issues as well, but older lots).

May be my last order for a while. They have had more than enough time to beta test on consumers.
These issues should not still be happening imo.

 

[gopherslayer]

I have lot SCL2DD291. Ordered about 1 month ago when the 77OTM came back in stock. I haven’t burned through as many as I’ve wanted to as the weather has been shit for the past 3 weeks but no primer issues or split cases.

 

[Sum Ting Wong]

Do you have the lot number ?

SCL2DE281

 

[mark5pt56]

I just ordered the 77SMK, 77OTM and the 75 BTHP to try out--getting over reloading lately.

 

[ggiddy]

I've had great luck with the PSA AAC 77gr OTM with a ruger ranch 5.56 bolt action, 100s of rounds, so I ordered more and it arrived last week. This new shipment has split cases like shown in this thread. 2/20 from a single box.

There was nothing unusual while shooting. What got my attention was the 2 dirty cases when picking up brass. The primers are still in and looked normal. Is this ammo safe to shoot?

Have any of you with this split case problem began the return/replacement process with PSA and have some insight on who there to contact?

 

[saddlerocker]

I've had great luck with the PSA AAC 77gr OTM with a ruger ranch 5.56 bolt action, 100s of rounds, so I ordered more and it arrived last week. This new shipment has split cases like shown in this thread. 2/20 from a single box.

There was nothing unusual while shooting. What got my attention was the 2 dirty cases when picking up brass. The primers are still in and looked normal. Is this ammo safe to shoot?

Have any of you with this split case problem began the return/replacement process with PSA and have some insight on who there to contact?

They never answered my email via their website form.
I just shot the rest with no issues.
It doesn't seem like an overcharge issue, as I didn't notice either. Didn't even effect the .75moa group.

I just bought more last week, and was hoping it was fixed.
Do you have the Lot#?

I find it so odd it's always the 77OTM.
Mine was purchased 11/23.
And it's still doing it??

Apparently there is a PSA reddit they respond too.
Also on ar15.com jman_jje posts and replies to people. (Co-owner or someone)

 

[Sum Ting Wong]

I filed a warranty claim, they emailed on the 29th asking if it was only lot 281 since I had a few orders of it. Haven't heard back yet.

 

[saddlerocker]

I filed a warranty claim, they emailed on the 29th asking if it was only lot 281 since I had a few orders of it. Haven't heard back yet.

Hmm, I have Lot SCL1DE281 that I got around 6/10/24. 77OTM.
You wrote SCL2DE281 in your previous post?
It was the 77OTM right?
Sure wish their lot numbers were decipher-able.

 

[bfoosh006]

They never answered my email via their website form.
I just shot the rest with no issues.
It doesn't seem like an overcharge issue, as I didn't notice either. Didn't even effect the .75moa group.

I just bought more last week, and was hoping it was fixed.
Do you have the Lot#?

I find it so odd it's always the 77OTM.
Mine was purchased 11/23.
And it's still doing it??

Apparently there is a PSA reddit they respond too.
Also on ar15.com jman_jje posts and replies to people. (Co-owner or someone)

jman_jje is the founder of PSA. ( Started selling P-Mags from his garage )

It being odd that it is the 77gr OTM is probably because PSA sells a poop-ton of it.

It is my understanding , that they are selling so much ammo, the bullet making equip. was swapped over to brass production.

 

[ggiddy]

I've had great luck with the PSA AAC 77gr OTM with a ruger ranch 5.56 bolt action, 100s of rounds, so I ordered more and it arrived last week. This new shipment has split cases like shown in this thread. 2/20 from a single box.

There was nothing unusual while shooting. What got my attention was the 2 dirty cases when picking up brass. The primers are still in and looked normal. Is this ammo safe to shoot?

Have any of you with this split case problem began the return/replacement process with PSA and have some insight on who there to contact?

lot SCL2DF101

 

[5RWill]

jman_jje is the founder of PSA. ( Started selling P-Mags from his garage )

It being odd that it is the 77gr OTM is probably because PSA sells a poop-ton of it.

It is my understanding , that they are selling so much ammo, the bullet making equip. was swapped over to brass production.

Hornady is manufacturing their bullets for them at the moment

 

[Eustice]

I have shot a lot of the AAC ammo and have previously posted in this thread. I decided to look at the different variants as well as the IMI Razor Core to see what the difference in velocity and accuracy would be.

I had previously shot the different types out of an 18” WOA SPR barrel but replaced it with a 16” Ranier Match barrel. So this is all with the 16”

Sorry that I didn’t post the session summary screen, but I didn’t take the pics planning on posting them anywhere. The data is available at the bottom of the Xero screen, though.

One thing I found interesting was the SMK load being much hotter since the last time I shot it with the chrono. It was almost 90 FPS faster than last time. Below is the last time I shot it with the Xero. This photo doesn’t say SMK anywhere but that’s what it was. These were from different lots bought several months apart.

All of them shot below 1 MOA with the 77gr. SMK being the clear winner. The 77gr. OTM, the 75gr. BTHP, and the 77gr. Razorcore were all close enough to be called a wash. Below are where I recorded the group sizes (6 separate 3-round groups) and the velocities. Again, I didn’t plan on doing this for posting so it’s just hand written. But it should give an idea.

This was all with the same rifle. The accuracy could possibly be better across the board as this 16” rifle only has a 1-8x ATACR on it. But since they were all shot with the same rifle and scope I think there’s some value to the data.

 

[saddlerocker]

Not the load this thread is about, but...
At the range now.
75gr Sabre Blade case rupture.
Guess it's not just the 77OTM.

My wild ass guess is that the machines they had for making projectiles, that they converted to make brass, aren't dialed in.

Bought last week.

 

[5RWill]

Anything happen to the gun?

 

[saddlerocker]

Anything happen to the gun?

No.
I had 1 rupture with 77OTM from a lot purchased 11/23, didn't even open the group.

This time with the 75 SB, again I didn't notice anything until I pick up the brass. One round was a little high, but again didn't really even create an obvious flier.

I think its weak/thin/brittle brass?
Doesn't seem to be an overcharge to me.
Don't have a chrony.

Primers seem normal.

Both times I checked chamber with a borescope when I got home and couldn't see a noticeable scorch mark (fired rounds after the rupture)

I am shooting a Wylde chamber, so I assume some will blame that, but I don't buy that argument.

 

[clcustom1911]

Have you contacted PSA? I've shot 4 different 77OTM lot numbers out of my Mk12 in 90⁰-115⁰ heat suppressed and have zero issues. My chamber is likely minimum spec as my used brass still fits inside a Lyman steel chamber check gauge.

 

[saddlerocker]

Have you contacted PSA? I've shot 4 different 77OTM lot numbers out of my Mk12 in 90⁰-115⁰ heat suppressed and have zero issues. My chamber is likely minimum spec as my used brass still fits inside a Lyman steel chamber check gauge.

I did the first time via their website. Didn't get a reply.
But what's the point honestly? This new new production, so it's not like they "fixed" anything.

It doesn't cause any problems, so I'll shoot the rest I guess.
I'm not mad...... just disappointed

 

[Sum Ting Wong]

I’ve been reloading AAC brass for my .223 AI for a while now and haven’t any issues with brass(most has 4-5 uses). The two ruptures with the 77 OTM, we’re the first issues I’ve had.