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American Rifle Company New Archimedes Action, New Xylo Chassis, and major Mausingfield revision
- Thread starter karagias
- Start date
Yes. The action fits nicely but at the moment I'm having feeding issues. Once or twice out of 10 rounds I get a case that pops up in front of the bolt head and wont feed that last few thou. I believe it is due to the geometry of my magazine feed lips. I currently use AI mags with Primal Rights 6BR kits. I am going to go back to the range and try to experiment with other mags and bending feed lips on the AI mags. I assume that this is just a minor hiccup that I will get fixed in short order.
The AI mags have longer feed lips, which is great for push feed actions, not so much for CRF actions. MDT BR mags have short feed lips which work great. Try a mag with shorter lips and see if things improve.
It will allow longer loaded cartridges, at the cost of some rigidity.
I’m not very rough on my mags, so I always opt for more room.
I got my bolts back friday and they are smooth, fast and work with all triggers (sent in 4)
Put this together last night and got out and ran 40 rounds through it today. It's a 223 Archimedes in a KRG X-Ray, with a TT Diamond and I think a McGowen barrel with a Griffin Armament Optimus Micro. I used the Accurate 223 10 rd mags and had perfect and smooth feeding and ejecting with no adjustments to the mag or chassis. Ejection was just how you would want with a CRF action and it would hold onto the case or fling it wherever you wanted it depending on how quickly you pulled the bolt back. Not that 223 should be hard to extract anyway, but it was very easy and the bolt cycling felt very good.
I was shooting 223, but the extraction was smooth and easy. The bolt was never sticky in the lifting or pull to the rear. There was no perceptible cock on close and I can't see any with the naked eye. It appears to have quite a bit of primary extraction with the changes to the bolt. I never really measured it before, but there's definitely enough now. Control of the round out of the magazine was very good as well. It fed better than I've experienced before with a 223. I'm pretty impressed overall. I will be interesting when people start using it with some hotter rounds that want to stick to the chamber walls a little more, but my guess is it will handle it very well. Pulling the bolt rearward is certainly a stronger motion, than pushing it in an upward arc.
I got mine (#8) together yesterday and went and fired about 60 rounds through it of 6.5 creed, again not a hot round but i do run on the hotter side for the cartridge. I head to tweak the genius just ever so slightly on my mdt metal mag and after that it ran smooth and fast. No noticeably cock on close and plenty of primary extraction with the improved bolt handle. Overall impressions are favorable. Atleast for me this seems to be a very fast action. It will be getting a 7ss barrel in the future. Overall pleased with it and it completes a light build for a hunting rifle for me just in time for deer season in 3 weeks.
Xylo Chassis Update
Design changes have been delaying the release of the Xylo. Every time I think that we have incorporated all the necessary details, someone comes up with a suggestion that warrants consideration if not a design change. But it’s looking complete now and I think we can start production. The hard parts of the manufacturing process were developed along with the chassis design. In fact, manufacturing drove design and design drove manufacturing.
The cheek piece has come a long way. We decided against the Velcro loops because they proved to be too rough against the face. The cheek piece is now silicon rubber over an aluminum sub-structure. The cheek piece elevator is reversible offering a very large amount of left-right adjustment. Height is still adjusted via rack and pinion. We have added a pinion lock, the use of which is optional. The lock will be included with every chassis. Its purpose is to hold the cheek piece elevator firmly against that chassis thus eliminating any rattling therebetween. The cheek piece may also be adjusted forwards and backwards as well as for yaw.
The quick-adjust length-of-pull butt-plate assembly is now using 3/8” diameter (up from 5/16”) titanium slides to better tolerate abuse. The weight of the chassis has increased by about eight ounces, again for improved durability. Since it is primarily intended for target rifles, I didn’t see any harm in this.
The grip is still made from walnut. This may prove logistically difficult, but it does offer us great flexibility for making additional grip sizes and styles. Who knows, maybe we’ll offer injection molded nylon grips someday. I still think the walnut feels good.
The weight kit has been fully developed. Four-ounce and 16-ounce weights up to three pounds can be bolted into the forend channel. Up to six four-ounce weight can be attached to the side of the chassis via M-LOK. Additional weight can be added to the aft-end via the butt-plate.
We have cleverly incorporated a level, the details of which I will save as a surprise. Those who have seen it have really liked it.
Lastly, we have devoted considerably effort to the interface between the receiver and the chassis. I think that we have a solution that will be reasonably tolerant of unintended barrel impacts.
We will make every effort to get these released by Christmas. I know, we’re late, really late on this one. But, it’s much, much better than what we showed you at Shot Show back in January and I can honestly say that I am not aware of a better chassis design. There was a lot more to this thing that I originally though. I live and I learn, just like you. Thanks for your patience and for your business.
Ted
Design changes have been delaying the release of the Xylo. Every time I think that we have incorporated all the necessary details, someone comes up with a suggestion that warrants consideration if not a design change. But it’s looking complete now and I think we can start production. The hard parts of the manufacturing process were developed along with the chassis design. In fact, manufacturing drove design and design drove manufacturing.
The cheek piece has come a long way. We decided against the Velcro loops because they proved to be too rough against the face. The cheek piece is now silicon rubber over an aluminum sub-structure. The cheek piece elevator is reversible offering a very large amount of left-right adjustment. Height is still adjusted via rack and pinion. We have added a pinion lock, the use of which is optional. The lock will be included with every chassis. Its purpose is to hold the cheek piece elevator firmly against that chassis thus eliminating any rattling therebetween. The cheek piece may also be adjusted forwards and backwards as well as for yaw.
The quick-adjust length-of-pull butt-plate assembly is now using 3/8” diameter (up from 5/16”) titanium slides to better tolerate abuse. The weight of the chassis has increased by about eight ounces, again for improved durability. Since it is primarily intended for target rifles, I didn’t see any harm in this.
The grip is still made from walnut. This may prove logistically difficult, but it does offer us great flexibility for making additional grip sizes and styles. Who knows, maybe we’ll offer injection molded nylon grips someday. I still think the walnut feels good.
The weight kit has been fully developed. Four-ounce and 16-ounce weights up to three pounds can be bolted into the forend channel. Up to six four-ounce weight can be attached to the side of the chassis via M-LOK. Additional weight can be added to the aft-end via the butt-plate.
We have cleverly incorporated a level, the details of which I will save as a surprise. Those who have seen it have really liked it.
Lastly, we have devoted considerably effort to the interface between the receiver and the chassis. I think that we have a solution that will be reasonably tolerant of unintended barrel impacts.
We will make every effort to get these released by Christmas. I know, we’re late, really late on this one. But, it’s much, much better than what we showed you at Shot Show back in January and I can honestly say that I am not aware of a better chassis design. There was a lot more to this thing that I originally though. I live and I learn, just like you. Thanks for your patience and for your business.
Ted
Thanks for the XLYO update @karagias !!!!!
Keep up the good work. Plenty of folks don't know what it's like to create and innovate and want to produce the best product....especially on you own dime. What most companies do is release the inferior version only to create a Gen II the next year ....but you're trying to make sure that all of the products are designed and built correct from the start.
Keep up the good work. Plenty of folks don't know what it's like to create and innovate and want to produce the best product....especially on you own dime. What most companies do is release the inferior version only to create a Gen II the next year ....but you're trying to make sure that all of the products are designed and built correct from the start.
I have no horse in the race but you have to be joking or taking drugs. Lol
This whole thread is about customers having issues and then finally sending products back for personalized fixes from design flaws.
I’ve never had to send any of my ARC products back or had major issues.
I have a 7 ss on a Nucleus action, I LOVE IT. There were four of use that spun up rifles at the same time. They all shoot fantastic so far.
I am torn between leaving it on the Nucleus or moving it to the Archimedes, but will probably leave well enough alone until next year.
People have to be blind or suspend logic to have a complaint about the way ARC has handled things with the Archimedes and Xylos. If you buy a product from ARC, it is a fantastic design and quality, and if you have the slightest complaint that Ted can improve, he does. And, everyone gets the benefit of a design tweak. I had no issue with my Nucleus, but felt obligated to get the upgrades, just on the off chance I ever sold them. I honestly couldn't feel a difference in the changed bolt head. Anyone who has a different expectation is the one on drugs.
No pissing match
The actions didn’t work properly with many of the “liked “ triggers on the market. No debate on that
im glad people get free upgrades and design tweaks but tweaks are not functionality performance necessities.
if people are willing to send back items for “free” product improvement that’s one thing.
If people want to send back items for upgrading a products universality that’s another.
But items are being send back because the product is not performing as designed or marketed
if belief of the quality of a item is associated with free upgrades from original flaws, people need to retake marketing 101.
The actions didn’t work properly with many of the “liked “ triggers on the market. No debate on that
im glad people get free upgrades and design tweaks but tweaks are not functionality performance necessities.
if people are willing to send back items for “free” product improvement that’s one thing.
If people want to send back items for upgrading a products universality that’s another.
But items are being send back because the product is not performing as designed or marketed
if belief of the quality of a item is associated with free upgrades from original flaws, people need to retake marketing 101.
@karagias was there another fix on the LA Archimedes bolt for primary extraction? I've already sent my whole action to you guys and got it back around Oct 1st.
But not sure if the bolt bushing was upgraded? Seems like whole new bolt i got back. the bolt handle/lever had more extraction movement than the original bolt that came with action.
Just waiting on that rail...i got all the parts to start assembly.
But not sure if the bolt bushing was upgraded? Seems like whole new bolt i got back. the bolt handle/lever had more extraction movement than the original bolt that came with action.
Just waiting on that rail...i got all the parts to start assembly.
Brian,
Your sentiment is well placed. I make mistakes. No doubt about it. The mistakes happen because I'm pushing the limited resources I have too hard. We took on three large projects this year, Mausingfield 2.0, the Archimedes, and the Xylo. The workload associated with each of these is tough to appreciate unless you've experienced it for yourself. I'm optimistic to a fault. When I decide I want to do something, I almost instantly visualize the path from start to finish but completely forget about the pain experienced during the last project. Friends that used to encourage me to take on new projects have become sensitive to this and now ask me to promise that I will take a vacation or at least a break. But I've learned my lesson and that's at least part of the reason for the late Xylo release.
Everything take more time that I think it ought to. That's frustrates me. In a weird way, underestimating the time and the energy required to build a company as well as to develop the projects that will keep in solvent are prerequisites to starting a business like this. if I knew what I was in for, I'd probably decide to do something else.
So going forward, it's probably wise that we take things a bit more slowly. But all that said, the Archimedes turned out to be a pretty awesome action and I hope that the Xylo will be at least as good. And if customers experience any issue along the way, we'll do everything we can to make it right. That's a promise that i think we've been able to keep.
Ted
It's worth noting that I disagree with BrainF's accretion that the actions do not work with the "liked" triggers on the market. Such an assertion requires an in depth understanding of the triggers. Unless I choose to directly compete against trigger manufacturers, I generally refrain from illuminating the shortcoming of triggers.
That said, cock-on-open, bump- or cock-on-close depends on the length of the top sear of the trigger assembly and we know that length varies, not just between manufacturers, but also between triggers that come from the same source. Also, if you can't slam the cocking piece of a fast moving bolt into the top sear of a trigger assembly without it dropping the striker, well then you should strongly consider using a different trigger.
When buying a trigger, your primary concern should be safety but admittedly, that can be difficult to assess.
Ted
That said, cock-on-open, bump- or cock-on-close depends on the length of the top sear of the trigger assembly and we know that length varies, not just between manufacturers, but also between triggers that come from the same source. Also, if you can't slam the cocking piece of a fast moving bolt into the top sear of a trigger assembly without it dropping the striker, well then you should strongly consider using a different trigger.
When buying a trigger, your primary concern should be safety but admittedly, that can be difficult to assess.
Ted
I'll try to post an actual picture of the Xylo sooner than later but for now, I hope this will do.
Ted
Ted
LOL, not a pissing match... I am gonna opine on your opinion when you keep jumping into threads for ARC products you don't own to explain how ARC buyers and supporters should feel about them. I don't get why someone does that, so I am off to Marketing 101, maybe then I can find the disappointment in life I deserve. LOL.
But, until then, I will enjoy my new Archimedes and the delusion that Ted does innovative and excellent work. I can do it, cause, yes, I am high on drugs. LOL
Seriously, no one is denying the fact that the Archimedes needed to be fixed. But, ARC did the fix right. Define quality how you like, but I am pleased with the quality of all the ARC actions that I own. For all of the bumps in the process, the product I have from ARC is innovative and top quality.
PS, I am sure we could hang out at the range, shoot some bull, shoot some bullets, and have a great time. We certainly won't agree though!
Ted,
Keep the walnut handgrip!! Molded plastic is overrated.
I am excited to see the Xylos. I handled the Archimedes and the Xylo at SHOT. I really liked the feel and concept of the Xylo. It was honestly a great feeling chassis in my shooting hand. I think the walnut was part of it. I like a traditional stock feel, and that is what the Xylos has. Eyes closed, I wouldn't have known whether it was a stock or chassis in the grip. I am still not convinced to buy any chassis for my rifle, but the Xylo is the only one I would consider because of the way it is configured. I'll be by the booth in 2020 if you go, and might buy one there once I see it.
As for the Archimedes, thanks for delivering a pretty cool action. Of course, I am in a drug induced delusion right now...
(Full disclosure, I guess I am a "fanboy" but I didn't meet Ted and he has no idea who I am. I saw him, but he looked exhausted at the end of the last day of the show, lol.)
I have a somewhat early Archimedes action that was sent back and fixed prior to the bolt lever update. I called ARC today to inquire about it and they offered to send me the new parts. I'm still waiting on a barrel so it sounds good to me.
Got my action back post fix and now it "clicks" when I turn the bolt down. Doesn't seem to inhibit function. Anyone have this happen to them?
Do u have the SA or LA? I'm planning to wait 'til they have the updated/fixed rail and bolt parts to send it back in for the fix.
To Archimedes customers:
There are exactly 33 of you who have an Archimedes without the updated handle and bushing. Justin will be sending an email to all of you indicating that a new bolt handle and bushing will be sent. You DO NOT need to send your old handle and bushing back to us. Keep them. If you are uncomfortable with the disassembly of the bolt, you can indicate that by replying to the email and we will send a shipping label to you.
Here is a brief explanation of why we are sending new bushings and handles. The bushing was added to the Archimedes design after prototyping. Extraction worked extremely well during prototyping but we weren't happy with the forward spring bias of the handle. The bushing fixed that but I failed to detect a slight interference between the end of the striker and the bottom of the counterbore in the bushing. This interference reduced the angle through which the bolt handle could articulate. Oops. But what made this hard to detect was that the action was still extracting well in most cases. That was and easy fix. But then, Justin (he works here) realized that if we make a small modification to the bolt handle, we could get even more extraction than we had originally planned for without any adverse consequences. Since the revelation occurred after only a few actions had been shipped, 33 to be exact, we decided to go ahead and make the change. Although I can't be certain that the handle mod was necessary, I couldn't argue that it was not better. Better is better so there it is.
See pic below. You know what a bolt handle is. The bushing that we're talking about is the red part. The striker is the green part. In the top picture, there appears to be plenty of clearance between the end of the striker and the bottom of the counterbore. That is because the bolt assembly is shown in the fired configuration (striker forward).
During extraction (lower picture) the striker is cocked (rearwards) and the bolt handle/knob is also pulled to the rear. Notice that the end of the striker and the bottom of the counterbore are now close to one another.
Ted
No. I decided against ambi because there are no ambi M700 footprint actions out in the wild. Moreover, I don't want to encourage folks to put their face immediately behind an ejection port when firing a rifle.
That said, a right handed Xylo will accept a right-bolt left-port M700 type action. The top of the chassis is below the bottom of the ejection port. Just be careful if you have such an action. I've blown up lots of actions during testing and I can promise you that once you witness a rifle blowing up, you won't be thinking, "Gee, let's do that again but this time let me put my face next to it."
Ted
Got the notice today that my left handed long magnum is ready to ship out!
I was leaning towards a 300PRC build but now I have no idea. Just for knock steel at 1800 for now. I have changed my mind on caliber at least a dozen times.
Now I guess I'll wait for the Xylo. I just hope I can get butt pad spaces or some thing, i have a very long LOP.
I was leaning towards a 300PRC build but now I have no idea. Just for knock steel at 1800 for now. I have changed my mind on caliber at least a dozen times.
Now I guess I'll wait for the Xylo. I just hope I can get butt pad spaces or some thing, i have a very long LOP.
Does anyone know if any of the Mausingfield actions can be fed from double-stack AW/AX mags in APA bottom metal?
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