Anneal every time = consistent?

[SlowMiss6.5]

Thanks to YouTube I built an induction annealer and just shot the first rounds with it today using once shot brass. My ES was much higher than I expected, approx 50fps, SD of approx 16 fps (Peterson brass).

Could annealing each time be creating larger ES? I’m using a Redding body die, then Lee collet die, H4350, 147 eldm

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

You changed something (something being the annealing). If annealing is the reason, it’s because you need to do something different like different bushing and/or mandrel or collet die.

Or it’s possible there’s something inconsistent with your annealing.

But annealing every firing shouldn’t be a problem in and of itself.


Then there’s also the issue that unless you’ve tested extensively, your SD may have always been higher than you thought and just now seeing it in a sample. FWIW, with a 16sd, you’re going to have an ES up to about 96.

 

[hafejd30]

First is your annealing consistent and how are you determining that?

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

You changed something (something being the annealing). If annealing is the reason, it’s because you need to do something different like different bushing and/or mandrel or collet die.

Or it’s possible there’s something inconsistent with your annealing.

But annealing every firing shouldn’t be a problem in and of itself.


Then there’s also the issue that unless you’ve tested extensively, your SD may have always been higher than you thought and just now seeing it in a sample. FWIW, with a 16sd, you’re going to have an ES up to about 96.

Thanks for the info. I don’t have a ton of past data on this Peterson brass because I just got through fire forming. I was seeing ES of 30-50 while wiring forming (I fire formed over 5 different range trips).

So I was assuming that once I got it annealed, bumped the shoulder and used the collect die, I’d be seeing some pretty solid ES/SD data. About a week ago I did take some once fired Peterson, did not anneal, FL sized with Lee die and over only 5 shots my ES was 8 (Labrador)

I don’t want to draw a conclusion over only 5 shots but it’s the only second fired data I have other than today.

I did notice that the bullets seat VERY easy with the normal 6.5 cal collet, like .001” or even a little less. But I tried to push the bullet in by hand (once loaded) and couldn’t change the COAL so figured it was enough neck tension. I do have a smaller collet but it creates about .003 tension so have tired it yet

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

First is your annealing consistent and how are you determining that?

This is what I am using


Long story short it is an induction annealer with a timer that’s accurate to .01 second. The guy that posted the video has had great success and I built the same setup so I’d have to believe it’s not my problem?

I just started annealing with the idea that if I want consistent neck tension with a collet die (or mandrel for that matter) I can’t have work hardened brass that springs back a thou or two

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Thanks for the info. I don’t have a ton of past data on this Peterson brass because I just got through fire forming. I was seeing ES of 30-50 while wiring forming (I fire formed over 5 different range trips).

So I was assuming that once I got it annealed, bumped the shoulder and used the collect die, I’d be seeing some pretty solid ES/SD data. About a week ago I did take some once fired Peterson, did not anneal, FL sized with Lee die and over only 5 shots my ES was 8 (Labrador)

I don’t want to draw a conclusion over only 5 shots but it’s the only second fired data I have other than today.

I did notice that the bullets seat VERY easy with the normal 6.5 cal collet, like .001” or even a little less. But I tried to push the bullet in by hand (once loaded) and couldn’t change the COAL so figured it was enough neck tension. I do have a smaller collet but it creates about .003 tension so have tired it yet

Lube the inside of necks and use the -.003" inside diameter. See if that helps. It likely will if your annealing is consistent.

 

[misser]

Thanks for the info. I don’t have a ton of past data on this Peterson brass because I just got through fire forming. I was seeing ES of 30-50 while wiring forming (I fire formed over 5 different range trips).

So I was assuming that once I got it annealed, bumped the shoulder and used the collect die, I’d be seeing some pretty solid ES/SD data. About a week ago I did take some once fired Peterson, did not anneal, FL sized with Lee die and over only 5 shots my ES was 8 (Labrador)

I don’t want to draw a conclusion over only 5 shots but it’s the only second fired data I have other than today.

I did notice that the bullets seat VERY easy with the normal 6.5 cal collet, like .001” or even a little less. But I tried to push the bullet in by hand (once loaded) and couldn’t change the COAL so figured it was enough neck tension. I do have a smaller collet but it creates about .003 tension so have tired it yet

ya most guys that load their own don't know how much force they are really using to push a bullet into the brass. a lot can be seen on YouTube . virgin brass surprised me the most . i was surprised to see how much psi force it took . its what used to seat manufactured ammo, right?

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

Lube the inside of necks and use the -.003" inside diameter. See if that helps. It likely will if your annealing is consistent.

I’ll give it a shot, thanks. In the past I’ve just been assuming the powder residue on the inside of the necks (I don’t tumble clean, just rag with little bit of 70% alcohol and then let dry). Should that be enough lube or do I need to get some dry lube or spray some Hornady one shot?

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

ya most guys that load their own don't know how much force they are really using to push a bullet into the brass. a lot can be seen on YouTube . virgin brass surprised me the most . i was surprised to see how much psi force it took . its what used to seat manufactured ammo, right?

Yeah the Peterson brass new was like .008 neck tension (at which point it just sizes the neck open lol). Quite a bit of force to see those. The collet that left .001 tension felt like the bullet was almost searing itself (figure of speech, I couldn’t seat it by hand/finger)

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I’ll give it a shot, thanks. In the past I’ve just been assuming the powder residue on the inside of the necks (I don’t tumble clean, just rag with little bit of 70% alcohol and then let dry). Should that be enough lube or do I need to get some dry lube or spray some Hornady one shot?

It's probably enough.

 

[JR1200W3]

I used to anneal every firing but stopped bc it pretty much necessitates treating the inside of the necks. It turns into a cascading addition of brass prep steps. I load 90% of my precision rifle on a progressive press and for my purposes I don't really want to handle each piece of brass for some sort of manual case prep step. But you may be different. The issues I had annealing every time was the leftover carbon or soot that provides some natural lubricity chars into a super dry and sticky surface. When that happens you have to lube the necks. Which means you have to lube after dropping powder or else you have powder bridging bc it sticks to the lube. Not only is this a pita but it prevents you from loading prepped brass on a Dillon. You might be able to rectify the stickiness of the necks by dry tumbling after sizing and hope the leftover dust provides something. I have alternatively kept a tin of imperial sizing die wax next to the bullets as I load and every three rounds tapped my fingers in the wax so that when I grab a bullet to place on the case I can roll it around in my fingers to basically lube the bullet. This reduces the seating force and prevents the cold weld you'll get from annealed and super clean brass. I played with one type of dry lube and it really just didn't seem effective. I also bought some Neolube with the idea that I could lube the necks and it dries into a film so the powder doesn't stick. But when you read the label that stuff is super hazardous to your health and I'm back to loading 100pcs of brass at a time on a loading block to touch every case with a tiny brush. None of this is insurmountable but I reached the conclusion that if I can load single digit SDs without annealing every firing, why go through the hassle? Disclaimer is I shoot field matches and PRS. I don't shoot benchrest. .3" - .5" is my goal when loading.

 

[Maurygold]

what is your normal ES and why are you annleaing?

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

I used to anneal every firing but stopped bc it pretty much necessitates treating the inside of the necks. It turns into a cascading addition of brass prep steps. I load 90% of my precision rifle on a progressive press and for my purposes I don't really want to handle each piece of brass for some sort of manual case prep step. But you may be different. The issues I had annealing every time was the leftover carbon or soot that provides some natural lubricity chars into a super dry and sticky surface. When that happens you have to lube the necks. Which means you have to lube after dropping powder or else you have powder bridging bc it sticks to the lube. Not only is this a pita but it prevents you from loading prepped brass on a Dillon. You might be able to rectify the stickiness of the necks by dry tumbling after sizing and hope the leftover dust provides something. I have alternatively kept a tin of imperial sizing die wax next to the bullets as I load and every three rounds tapped my fingers in the wax so that when I grab a bullet to place on the case I can roll it around in my fingers to basically lube the bullet. This reduces the seating force and prevents the cold weld you'll get from annealed and super clean brass. I played with one type of dry lube and it really just didn't seem effective. I also bought some Neolube with the idea that I could lube the necks and it dries into a film so the powder doesn't stick. But when you read the label that stuff is super hazardous to your health and I'm back to loading 100pcs of brass at a time on a loading block to touch every case with a tiny brush. None of this is insurmountable but I reached the conclusion that if I can load single digit SDs without annealing every firing, why go through the hassle? Disclaimer is I shoot field matches and PRS. I don't shoot benchrest. .3" - .5" is my goal when loading.

Thanks for the insight. The powder turning into a sticky char makes sense to me now that I think about it.

I agree with you about the never ending brass prep, I continually add steps because a lot of my ammo is semi long range hunting (700 yards and under) so I over analyze everything because after I get done hiking 2k’ plus feet in elevation I want to know my ammo is good. But this is a slippery slope because reloading is a deep worm hole

So I recently put my annealing setup together with the thought that if I do it every time, I will get more consistent neck tension, which should result in better ES and SD. If I don’t do it each time or do it ever so many firings, it my mind the neck tension won’t always be consistent.

But it sounds like I need to add some lubricant back into the neck to avoid the negative side effect of. Did you try imperial neck dry lube? I ordered some to give it a try and figured I could use a q tip to coat only the inside of the neck after using the collet die

 

[hafejd30]

I used to anneal every firing but stopped bc it pretty much necessitates treating the inside of the necks. It turns into a cascading addition of brass prep steps. I load 90% of my precision rifle on a progressive press and for my purposes I don't really want to handle each piece of brass for some sort of manual case prep step. But you may be different. The issues I had annealing every time was the leftover carbon or soot that provides some natural lubricity chars into a super dry and sticky surface. When that happens you have to lube the necks. Which means you have to lube after dropping powder or else you have powder bridging bc it sticks to the lube. Not only is this a pita but it prevents you from loading prepped brass on a Dillon. You might be able to rectify the stickiness of the necks by dry tumbling after sizing and hope the leftover dust provides something. I have alternatively kept a tin of imperial sizing die wax next to the bullets as I load and every three rounds tapped my fingers in the wax so that when I grab a bullet to place on the case I can roll it around in my fingers to basically lube the bullet. This reduces the seating force and prevents the cold weld you'll get from annealed and super clean brass. I played with one type of dry lube and it really just didn't seem effective. I also bought some Neolube with the idea that I could lube the necks and it dries into a film so the powder doesn't stick. But when you read the label that stuff is super hazardous to your health and I'm back to loading 100pcs of brass at a time on a loading block to touch every case with a tiny brush. None of this is insurmountable but I reached the conclusion that if I can load single digit SDs without annealing every firing, why go through the hassle? Disclaimer is I shoot field matches and PRS. I don't shoot benchrest. .3" - .5" is my goal when loading.

I anneal with a benchsource. I polish the outside of the case neck with super fine steel wool. Run a brush through the necks on my rcbs case prep center. A process you could do just after annealing

I’ll lube the case when full length sizing. Zero lube for the case neck when using the collet die. Annealing or not. Just brush inside and wipe outside

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

what is your normal ES and why are you annleaing?

Sorry don’t have that data because this is new brass. Before this I was using Hornady, no annealing and was seeing ES around 40 fps. I figured by using premium brass and a knee on each time that would greatly reduce my ES but it seems like I may have created a sticky neck situation by annealing each time

See my earlier post for more info on why I thought annealing each time would be good

 

[hafejd30]

I’d put money on more neck tension helping. I shoot for .0015” as my goal. But I still feel the bullet seat. I’d bet your OAL varies a bit as well with that little tension

 

[Maurygold]

Sorry don’t have that data because this is new brass. Before this I was using Hornady, no annealing and was seeing ES around 40 fps. I figured by using premium brass and a knee on each time that would greatly reduce my ES but it seems like I may have created a sticky neck situation by annealing each time

it will not lower your es and in fact it did the opposite here. you are just going to be chasing this for nothing because it will not increase your performance it will only allow your brass to extend it's life.

In case you have been dissuaded by any myths, here is the 6x fired Lapua I shot on my last outing - never annealed.

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

it will not lower your es and in fact it did the opposite here. you are just going to be chasing this for nothing because it will not increase your performance it will only allow your brass to extend it's life.

In case you have been dissuaded by any myths, here is the 6x fired Lapua I shot on my last outing - never annealed.

View attachment 8386416

I appreciate the info and the data. When people report that they see benefits in consistent neck tension and ES/SD due to annealing each time, do you think they not measuring what they think they are?

When I originally talked to Peterson brass manufacturer, they said anneal every time or not at all. And if annealing anneal with an induction setup like Amp

 

[JR1200W3]

I anneal with a benchsource. I polish the outside of the case neck with super fine steel wool. Run a brush through the necks on my rcbs case prep center. A process you could do just after annealing

I’ll lube the case when full length sizing. Zero lube for the case neck when using the collet die. Annealing or not. Just brush inside and wipe outside

Ya, that's reasonable. Sounds like pretty much what a guy has to do if he anneals everytime. I just keep coming back to the fact that I'm just not seeing significant improvement for the extra work. Maybe you're brass lasts longer.

 

[308pirate]

This is what I am using


Long story short it is an induction annealer with a timer that’s accurate to .01 second. The guy that posted the video has had great success and I built the same setup so I’d have to believe it’s not my problem?

I just started annealing with the idea that if I want consistent neck tension with a collet die (or mandrel for that matter) I can’t have work hardened brass that springs back a thou or two

So your timing is supposedly accurate. BFD.

What temperature are you taking the brass to? How consistent from case to case is that temperature? What is the heat up rate and how consistent is it from cycle to cycle?

 

[hafejd30]

I appreciate the info and the data. When people report that they see benefits in consistent neck tension and ES/SD due to annealing each time, do you think they not measuring what they think they are?

When I originally talked to Peterson brass manufacturer, they said anneal every time or not at all. And if annealing anneal with an induction setup like Amp

There’s already a ton of threads on annealing and whether it benefits or not. Likewise the same amount on people who use flame vs induction etc.

You could cruise through some of those and make your own opinion on if it’s worth it to you or not.

For myself I’ve tested it. It paid off. Not just group size but cut my ES and SD down. That was comparing several times fired brass against annealed. I do it every time but you could go several firings especially on something like a 308 between annealing.

Brass does work harden so that’s what you’re correcting the issue

I had brass on about 15-20 firings (Lapua 308) that I never annealed. Still worked good. But that was a very conservative load. It also was a savage rifle and only shot so good to begin with.

There’s very scientific ways to test brass. A AMP annealer with be the best solution. For my setup I run a dual torch bench source and test a couple casings with 750, 650 and 400 tempilaq to check my consistency

It works for me but results may vary

 

[hafejd30]

So your timing is accurate. BFD.

What temperature are you taking the brass to? How consistent from case to case is that temperature? What is the heat up rate and how consistent is it from cycle to cycle?

If I could like this post twice I would. Most don’t pay attention to this and do more harm then good

 

[308pirate]

Most don’t pay attention to this

That's because most don't have an earthly clue about what annealing really does, how does it do it, and which process variables matter.

 

[ma smith]

If I could like this post twice I would. Most don’t pay attention to this and do more harm then good

+1, also annealing (or not) typically changes resultant neck tension and shoulder bump for any fixed value of die/mandrel setting. IMHO, this should be obvious to anyone being careful when setting up their dies, but seems like its often overlooked.

saying stuff like I annealed and then the Sd changed doesn't say anything useful if you don't control for neck tension and shoulder bump, etc. the whole problem with not annealing at all is as the brass work hardens, you get less consistency in sizing.

A similar change also applies if you have dies setup for one and make a switch to the other without any adjustments.

 

[Maurygold]

I appreciate the info and the data. When people report that they see benefits in consistent neck tension and ES/SD due to annealing each time, do you think they not measuring what they think they are?

When I originally talked to Peterson brass manufacturer, they said anneal every time or not at all. And if annealing anneal with an induction setup like Amp

the only way someone might be able to understand their neck tension is with an AMP mate or a hydro in-line. There is no data to correlate those seating pressures to sd/es. if it is that much of an improvement to anneal, we should see lots of people regularly shooting SD/ ES lower than mine, yet you rarely see 7+ round groups below 3-4 SD.

This all leads me to say that you will do more harm than good by annealing for 90% of people - however I agree that use of an AMP annealer will extend brass life by some margin (debate if that's actually a good thing)

 

[StumpyJohnson]

This is what I am using


Long story short it is an induction annealer with a timer that’s accurate to .01 second. The guy that posted the video has had great success and I built the same setup so I’d have to believe it’s not my problem?

I just started annealing with the idea that if I want consistent neck tension with a collet die (or mandrel for that matter) I can’t have work hardened brass that springs back a thou or two

I'm building this same unit tonight! Have any advice before I get started?

 

[ma smith]

the only way someone might be able to understand their neck tension is with an AMP mate or a hydro in-line.

Pin gauges will also typically indicate any issues with neck tension, eg arising from brass hardening.

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

I'm building this same unit tonight! Have any advice before I get started?

You may want to read on this thread about the potential issues annealing each time creates lol. Other than that the setup works well, watch the video part two as well

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

the only way someone might be able to understand their neck tension is with an AMP mate or a hydro in-line. There is no data to correlate those seating pressures to sd/es. if it is that much of an improvement to anneal, we should see lots of people regularly shooting SD/ ES lower than mine, yet you rarely see 7+ round groups below 3-4 SD.

This all leads me to say that you will do more harm than good by annealing for 90% of people - however I agree that use of an AMP annealer will extend brass life by some margin (debate if that's actually a good thing)

How does one combat the issue of brass hardening through sizing after say 5-10 firings? Basically doesn’t the brass spring back get worse and worse as the brass hardens?

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

So your timing is supposedly accurate. BFD.

What temperature are you taking the brass to? How consistent from case to case is that temperature? What is the heat up rate and how consistent is it from cycle to cycle?

If I could like this post twice I would. Most don’t pay attention to this and do more harm then good

I welcome the info and am not stuck on annealing. In all the reading I did on this site as well and talking with the brass manufacture, I figured if I could induction anneal without spending $1400, it would be a worth while cause. Maybe it’s not? But if I don’t anneal, as the case work hardens and the neck and should spring back more and more, what do I do to keep things consistent?

 

[FredHammer]

I’ll give it a shot, thanks. In the past I’ve just been assuming the powder residue on the inside of the necks (I don’t tumble clean, just rag with little bit of 70% alcohol and then let dry). Should that be enough lube or do I need to get some dry lube or spray some Hornady one shot?

Shitcan the alcohol and use acetone. Too much water in even 91% alcohol. I pulled the bullets on a batch of rounds that had the necks cleaned with 91%. I detected my powder columns inside the cases were "fused" together and needed an unfolded paperclip to break the powder loose to ensure it would all flow out.

Absolutely do not use a wet type lube inside the case necks for bullet seating. Use graphite on virgin brass and the left over carbon on fired brass. Barrels shoot better dry than wet. They actually shoot bad wet.

As far as the gritty shit from annealing on the cases, my mandrel use and acetone swabbing follow up rid them of the mandrel lube and grit before bullet seating. (Eliminates another tumble in Lyman to clean the grit that way)

 

[FredHammer]

How does one combat the issue of brass hardening through sizing after say 5-10 firings? Basically doesn’t the brass spring back get worse and worse as the brass hardens?

They harden incrementally. Before I discovered annealing, I had a batch of brass that got so hard to bullet seat I was perplexed. Annealed that batch of brass after consulting with RCBS as to the cause. Loosened them right up to normal seating pressures.

 

[StumpyJohnson]

You may want to read on this thread about the potential issues annealing each time creates lol. Other than that the setup works well, watch the video part two as well

Yea, the frequency of when and how one anneals is an eternal debate, I'm not jumping into that rabbit hole...I just want to make sure I don't fry all the pieces and parts...

 

[SlowMiss6.5]

They harden incrementally. Before I discovered annealing, I had a batch of brass that got so hard to bullet seat I was perplexed. Annealed that batch of brass after consulting with RCBS as to the cause. Loosened them right up to normal seating pressures.

I can understand that they harden incrementally but how does one know when to anneal then? In my mind (which could be way off base) if one doesn’t anneal their neck tension will forever be changing and then once one does finally annealed it’s changed again to a different neck tension due to less spring back.

I thought I had found a solution (anneal every time with a DIy induction annealing) but it seems like reloading has out smarted me once again.

If I continue to anneal each time but then use imperial neck dry lube on a q tip and rub it only on the inside of the neck just before loading powder, I’m wondering if that is a solution?

 

[Maurygold]

I can understand that they harden incrementally but how does one know when to anneal then? In my mind (which could be way off base) if one doesn’t anneal their neck tension will forever be changing and then once one does finally annealed it’s changed again to a different neck tension due to less spring back.

I thought I had found a solution (anneal every time with a DIy induction annealing) but it seems like reloading has out smarted me once again.

If I continue to anneal each time but then use imperial neck dry lube on a q tip and rub it only on the inside of the neck just before loading powder, I’m wondering if that is a solution?

I see this all the time. Introducing annealing into a process to improve as/es. If you aren’t shooting 10-15 shot strings under 10sd (really under 8) you don’t need to add any complexity

The only annealing solutions are: (1) never anneal (2) anneal everytime with an amp. There are no other possibly right answers

 

[Maurygold]

I welcome the info and am not stuck on annealing. In all the reading I did on this site as well and talking with the brass manufacture, I figured if I could induction anneal without spending $1400, it would be a worth while cause. Maybe it’s not? But if I don’t anneal, as the case work hardens and the neck and should spring back more and more, what do I do to keep things consistent?

You can easily measure necks after sizing to see if any are trying yo spring back. I have not seen that to be a problem with lapua brass

 

[JR1200W3]

I can understand that they harden incrementally but how does one know when to anneal then? In my mind (which could be way off base) if one doesn’t anneal their neck tension will forever be changing and then once one does finally annealed it’s changed again to a different neck tension due to less spring back.

I thought I had found a solution (anneal every time with a DIy induction annealing) but it seems like reloading has out smarted me once again.

If I continue to anneal each time but then use imperial neck dry lube on a q tip and rub it only on the inside of the neck just before loading powder, I’m wondering if that is a solution?

What if every incremental change was a gnat on an elephant's ass worth of change? And amounted to a fraction of a percentage point in comparison to 50 other variables that all add up and end up with you behind the rifle placing rounds where you need them to? You could weight sort primers. You could do primer seating depth ladder tests. You could pick granules a powder off your scale with tweezers. You could weight sort bullets. You can sort bullets by base to ogive. You could trim metplats. You could repoint trimmed metplats. You can weight sort brass. You could trim your brass every firing.

There's nothing wrong with going down a rabbit hole. If that's what you want to do. You could learn a lot by doing it. But sometimes people get sucked into rabbit holes unwittingly.

Also, you might consider annealing after you size. I think I read on amps website that sizing a piece of brass work hardens it more than firing it does. That way when you see your bullet it is in the annealed state. Not annelaed and then work hardened again.

 

[FredHammer]

I can understand that they harden incrementally but how does one know when to anneal then? In my mind (which could be way off base) if one doesn’t anneal their neck tension will forever be changing and then once one does finally annealed it’s changed again to a different neck tension due to less spring back.

I thought I had found a solution (anneal every time with a DIy induction annealing) but it seems like reloading has out smarted me once again.

If I continue to anneal each time but then use imperial neck dry lube on a q tip and rub it only on the inside of the neck just before loading powder, I’m wondering if that is a solution?

Buzzword is in your thread title. "Consistency". Pick something that fits your fancy. This shit isn't as sciency as a lot on the internet try to make it out.
I anneal every time with (GASP!) flame annealing with an Ugly Annealer. A little upgrade from the drill/socket/torch method. Yes, I observe the benefits of annealing by these methods.

 

[Stavey]

If Benchrest accuracy is your goal then you go down the rabbit hole. If say 1 moa is good enough then load accordingly. Here’s a pic from the Amp website. I anneal every firing and keep Lapua brass sorted by lots. Then again I’m trying to put every bullet through the same hole. I didn’t buy the Amp for brass longevity . I bought it for consistency .

 

[Tokay444]

the only way someone might be able to understand their neck tension is with an AMP mate or a hydro in-line. There is no data to correlate those seating pressures to sd/es. if it is that much of an improvement to anneal, we should see lots of people regularly shooting SD/ ES lower than mine, yet you rarely see 7+ round groups below 3-4 SD.

This all leads me to say that you will do more harm than good by annealing for 90% of people - however I agree that use of an AMP annealer will extend brass life by some margin (debate if that's actually a good thing)

How would automatically feeding your AMP help you know anything about your neck tension?

 

[JR1200W3]

If Benchrest accuracy is your goal then you go down the rabbit hole. If say 1 moa is good enough then load accordingly. Here’s a pic from the Amp website. I anneal every firing and keep Lapua brass sorted by lots. Then again I’m trying to put every bullet through the same hole. I didn’t buy the Amp for brass longevity . I bought it for consistency . View attachment 8386518

See. Now you have to anneal before and after sizing, lol.

But seriously. I think you could neck that assumption down a little bit. I don't think you need to anneal every firing to shoot 3/8 in groups. Much less moa

 

[Maurygold]

@Tokay444 @FredHammer here's another one for you boys to mull over. never annealed - 5x fired.

 

[Tokay444]

@Tokay444 @FredHammer here's another one for you boys to mull over. never annealed - 5x fired.

View attachment 8386545

How would automatically feeding your AMP help you know anything about your neck tension?

.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

FWIW, brushing the necks after annealing is generally all that's needed to alleviate the cooked carbon issue. Some people even advocate for just brushing before annealing.

I personally just clean brass thoroughly and then apply neolube. But most people are leaving the carbon in, annealing, and then using a brush in the neck.


As with most things, using an amp press to monitor seating force, applying lube is more consistent than just brushing. But brushing is usually good enough for most purposes.

 

[misser]

.

are you asking about the amp press?

 

[misser]

@Tokay444 @FredHammer here's another one for you boys to mull over. never annealed - 5x fired.

View attachment 8386545

i only believe the target

 

[Maurygold]

i only believe the target

That doesn’t change the quality of reloads I’m producing without annealing - something these people act like you can only achieve by brushing necks, annealing and covering yourself in moly.

But based on the quality of reloads you shared I’m sure your opinion is more valid same for @FredHammer and @Tokay444 who shared zero chronos to support their reasoning

 

[Tokay444]

That doesn’t change the quality of reloads I’m producing without annealing - something these people act like you can only achieve by brushing necks, annealing and covering yourself in moly.

But based on the quality of reloads you shared I’m sure your opinion is more valid same for @FredHammer and @Tokay444 who shared zero chronos to support their reasoning

How does automatically feeding your AMP Annealer give you any information about your brass? You’re obviously super duper smart, so there’s no way you could have mixed up AMP Mate with AMP Press, so I’m genuinely curious, since you’re so much smarter than the rest of us here, with your meaningless “groups” which are actually even more meaningless graphs, and not groups at all. Please enlighten us oh wise Marigold.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

For better or worse, i anneal every reloading. Brass is not cheap and not always available. So, with accuracy running around .5 MOA or better when I take the time to shoot groups, and the targets I am shooting at getting hit (as much as I have the ability to hit them) I am having no issues Annealing at every reloading.

So far, getting really good life out of my brass. Now, I am somewhat different, I clean, resize, clean off the lube, debur neck/clean primer pockets, THEN anneal. next prime, charge and seat bullets. Works.

 

[Maurygold]

How does automatically feeding your AMP Annealer give you any information about your brass? You’re obviously super duper smart, so there’s no way you could have mixed up AMP Mate with AMP Press, so I’m genuinely curious, since you’re so much smarter than the rest of us here, with your meaningless “groups” which are actually even more meaningless graphs, and not groups at all. Please enlighten us oh wise one.

Obviously mixed up press and mate. Those are not meaningless in a reloading discussion - and I know we’ve been down this road where you get super buttbhurt because you’re not better at reloading despite all those stupid steps you take but once again, I promise it’s okay and I’m willing to help you again if you just want to pm me.