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If they can kill Vicky weaver with no repercussions they can kill anyone and it doesn't matter who sees itThanks greatly for this reminder.
If they have the capacity and will to do this kind of thing, they CAN do it to anybody. Nobody is immune.
Today it might be a 'cult' that gets incinerated. Tomorrow it might be an 'extremist organization'. Note the quotation marks. And it does not take much imagination to see what level this can be taken to.
Takes a tough guy to want to be in a photo like that,.... Killing children is hard, but required at times, that said,.... those kids were murdered not killed,... because they were a threat to anyone,.... That whole issue was because of I'll fuck you with my cigar klinton,... an that I want to be a man,... cunt reno.
That is why they only want robots, but robots often wake the fuck up. An that can be dangerous, once they have nothing to lose.Reflection often comes late in the game.
WrongDidn't like the raid, didn't like the resulting siege, didn't like a lot of things about that incident, and if those are LEO's posing in front of that fire, they should be fired. And there should have been convictions on the Ruby Ridge shootings. That said, I believe the Davidians started that fire, they can be heard on recordings talking about pouring the lamp oil and lighting it....... blame goes both ways for that shitshow.
Yea thats your take, my take is if your fucking plans to arrest someone are that bad, turn in the fucking get out of jail free cards.This is where buying more ammo and supplies fails without a sound set of practiced TTPs to put them to good use. If the men in the Waco compound wanted to resist up to a fight, then it should have never happened where the kids and others were.
Yeah it wasn't like he went to a diner every morning or that they were friendly with local le. Or that le had already inspected the property and disproved allegations of crimes. Or that .gov needed a big show during budget hearingsTragedy..
The Waco thing though, something should be said about not having children and others around if looking to put yourself in the position they did. In my mind there is a level of responsibility for the children that rests with the men inside that compound.
Yea thats your take, my take is if your fucking plans to arrest someone are that bad, turn in the fucking get out of jail free cards.
That was a US Gov cluster fuck the public was supposed to see an fear,... all it did was harden the people that will not live on their knees!!!
Why wrong? All that says is the FBI used tear gas that can potentially be incendiary. That is not in question.... it also does not negate the fact the Davidians could have started it, as is on the recordings. I'm not absolving anyone of misdeeds here....
+200I also believe both incidents were failure of local law enforcement (and I'm not bashing cops, I'm a retired cop). The County Sheriff should have stepped up in both incidents and put the reigns on the FBI. I started my career on a small town PD before moving to the city, and one thing I'll never forget was my Chief, who was a great man, told me one day when the FBI showed up to investigate a local store, that "They're the FBI, but this is still our town.... they are not going to trample people's rights" Horiuchi should have been arrested on the spot at RR. It is the duty of the local Sheriff to oversee these operations and come out right at the beginning and tell them they are not going to violate rights, and Bullshit shoot on sight ruled of engagement would not be tolerated.
Yea thats your take, my take is if your fucking plans to arrest someone are that bad, turn in the fucking get out of jail free cards.
That was a US Gov cluster fuck the public was supposed to see an fear,... all it did was harden the people that will not live on their knees!!!
This is where buying more ammo and supplies fails without a sound set of practiced TTPs to put them to good use. If the men in the Waco compound wanted to resist up to a fight, then it should have never happened where the kids and others were.
Until it's your HOME.
You've made a choice,
Drawn a line in the sand,
The secondary point was that stockpiling stuff in general without a plan to bring it into full effect is not much of a plan.
but maybe the line drawn SHOULD be somewhere else other than where the children sleep. Our children are ours to love, teach, and care for. But are not ours to sacrifice. They belong to themselves and God. That is my take.
Tragedy..
The Waco thing though, something should be said about not having children and others around if looking to put yourself in the position they did. In my mind there is a level of responsibility for the children that rests with the men inside that compound.
You and I agree on that.... 100%+200
They could have arrested Weaver or Koresh in on the way to or from town, but no the fucks wanted to make a statement,...
And if "Your way of life" involves having sex with underage girls? The whole reason Koresh didn't want to surrender was because he knew he was going to prison for impregnating underage girls. Seems to be the M.O. of all these so called Messiahs, they are all child molesters...Until it's your HOME.
You've made a choice,
Drawn a line in the sand,
Said, not one inch further,
My home, our way of life, our choice
MOLON LABE
The adults made a choice, for them AND their families, we go together.
T
And if "Your way of life" involves having sex with underage girls? The whole reason Koresh didn't want to surrender was because he knew he was going to prison for impregnating underage girls. Seems to be the M.O. of all these so called Messiahs, they are all child molesters...
Once the standoff started, where did you want the children to go?
Zero proof of that bs.
Standard .gov procedure. Shout child porn or molestation.
Was that what the raid was about? No.
Zero proof of that bs.
in the 25 years following, the following participants told, some under oath....
Kiri Jewell (sex at 10)
David Jewell (his shame at allowing it)
Joanna Vaega (to the best of her memory, it did, and the fear)
Grace Adams (it did, and he locked me in a cabin alone)
David Thibodeau (it did)
Mark Breault (it did)
Why call their testimonies lies and BS ? They were there. And none have changed their testimony yet had plenty of opportunities in 25 years.
It cannot be ignored any more than the fact the government raid was a ill deigned power play, a vestige of the bad that we all know exists and has exhibited regularly in recorded history.
Criminally incompetent.....
That is/was the main reason for the 2A across the board,...There is something very, very wrong when it is more important to any government, particularly the U.S. government, to establish forced/violent superiority over it's Citizens than the well being of said Citizens. Particularly women and children.
What happened at Waco was institutionalized, wholesale murder of United States Citizens. Men, women and children. There should have been massive prosecution of the murderers. Those involved were and remain some very sick people and should be behind bars, at a minimum.
If I recall correctly, and perhaps I don't recall correctly as I was a college student and had other things on my mind at the time, but didn't the "sex with minors" revelation come after the fire - more as a way to justify what happened? But they didn't know it was happening before the raid.
Don't forget about Troy. It must be about securing .gov contracts.I still wonder what brilliant stroke of Einsteinian genius made HS Precision choose that motherfucker to be their poster boy. That is basically akin to having John W. Gacy come out in praise of a particular brand of instant cement.
If I remember correctly, HS Precision got royally fucked for making such a brilliant marketing move, as they should be. I am glad I do not own any gear made by them. Fuck HS Precision. That kind of shit does not buff out from anyone's memory and should be constantly mentioned to remind others too.
Tragedy..
The Waco thing though, something should be said about not having children and others around if looking to put yourself in the position they did. In my mind there is a level of responsibility for the children that rests with the men inside that compound.
Don't forget about Troy. It must be about securing .gov contracts.
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Don't forgot it's another anniversary today. Timothy McViegh Killed 168 people to include 19 children in a daycare center.
I still wonder what brilliant stroke of Einsteinian genius made HS Precision choose that motherfucker to be their poster boy. That is basically akin to having John W. Gacy come out in praise of a particular brand of instant cement.
If I remember correctly, HS Precision got royally fucked for making such a brilliant marketing move, as they should be. I am glad I do not own any gear made by them. Fuck HS Precision. That kind of shit does not buff out from anyone's memory and should be constantly mentioned to remind others too.
Doesn't matter. It was suspected beforehand, but not proven. My point was, Koresh was not coming out because he knew if he did he was going away as a child molester. Some people seem to want to wash all the blame away from the Davidians and lay it all on the government. Some want to lay it all on the Davidians and away from the government. It's really not that hard to understand the blame goes to both......If I recall correctly, and perhaps I don't recall correctly as I was a college student and had other things on my mind at the time, but didn't the "sex with minors" revelation come after the fire - more as a way to justify what happened? But they didn't know it was happening before the raid.
Doesn't matter. It was suspected beforehand, but not proven. My point was, Koresh was not coming out because he knew if he did he was going away as a child molester. Some people seem to want to wash all the blame away from the Davidians and lay it all on the government. Some want to lay it all on the Davidians and away from the government. It's really not that hard to understand the blame goes to both......