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Anniversary of burning little kids to death
- Thread starter deersniper
- Start date
Can't say I much liked the crazy cult, but what was done to them was a wake up call to the entire country of those who would keep their eyes open.
That and something that went down up in the mountains and that sending a terrified kid back to a communist dictatorship at gunpoint. Brought to you by the Communists/Democrats/Clintons
That and something that went down up in the mountains and that sending a terrified kid back to a communist dictatorship at gunpoint. Brought to you by the Communists/Democrats/Clintons
Thanks greatly for this reminder.
If they have the capacity and will to do this kind of thing, they CAN do it to anybody. Nobody is immune.
Today it might be a 'cult' that gets incinerated. Tomorrow it might be an 'extremist organization'. Note the quotation marks. And it does not take much imagination to see what level this can be taken to.
If they have the capacity and will to do this kind of thing, they CAN do it to anybody. Nobody is immune.
Today it might be a 'cult' that gets incinerated. Tomorrow it might be an 'extremist organization'. Note the quotation marks. And it does not take much imagination to see what level this can be taken to.
If they can kill Vicky weaver with no repercussions they can kill anyone and it doesn't matter who sees it
I have never seen those photographs before. How can somebody stand in front of that smoldering debris, and be proud of the job you did? It's disgusting beyond belief.
Didn't like the raid, didn't like the resulting siege, didn't like a lot of things about that incident, and if those are LEO's posing in front of that fire, they should be fired. And there should have been convictions on the Ruby Ridge shootings. That said, I believe the Davidians started that fire, they can be heard on recordings talking about pouring the lamp oil and lighting it....... blame goes both ways for that shitshow.
Tragedy..
The Waco thing though, something should be said about not having children and others around if looking to put yourself in the position they did. In my mind there is a level of responsibility for the children that rests with the men inside that compound.
The Waco thing though, something should be said about not having children and others around if looking to put yourself in the position they did. In my mind there is a level of responsibility for the children that rests with the men inside that compound.
Takes a tough guy to want to be in a photo like that,.... Killing children is hard, but required at times, that said,.... those kids were murdered not killed,... because they were not a threat to anyone,.... That whole issue was because of I'll fuck you with my cigar klinton,... an that I want to be a man,... cunt reno. If you can't think of a way to get the innocents out, get the fuck out of that line of work!!!!!
This is a photo of Mrs. Weaver, cradling her infant child, in the final seconds of her life before the fatal shot was fired. Look at it and remember it:
This is where buying more ammo and supplies fails without a sound set of practiced TTPs to put them to good use. If the men in the Waco compound wanted to resist up to a fight, then it should have never happened where the kids and others were.
That is why they only want robots, but robots often wake the fuck up. An that can be dangerous, once they have nothing to lose.
Yea thats your take, my take is if your fucking plans to arrest someone are that bad, turn in the fucking get out of jail free cards.
That was a US Gov cluster fuck the public was supposed to see an fear,... all it did was harden the people that will not live on their knees!!!
I also believe both incidents were failure of local law enforcement (and I'm not bashing cops, I'm a retired cop). The County Sheriff should have stepped up in both incidents and put the reigns on the FBI. I started my career on a small town PD before moving to the city, and one thing I'll never forget was my Chief, who was a great man, told me one day when the FBI showed up to investigate a local store, that "They're the FBI, but this is still our town.... they are not going to trample people's rights" Horiuchi should have been arrested on the spot at RR. It is the duty of the local Sheriff to oversee these operations and come out right at the beginning and tell them they are not going to violate rights, and bullshit shoot on sight rules of engagement would not be tolerated.
Yeah it wasn't like he went to a diner every morning or that they were friendly with local le. Or that le had already inspected the property and disproved allegations of crimes. Or that .gov needed a big show during budget hearings
The only thing that I felt when I saw those and the Ruby Ridge pictures was anger.
Funny. The things that really trigger fear in me have nothing to do with violence. They are things like: the health and safety of my mother when I head out to go to work. The future of my children in this world when I do have children. Things like, what if I get physical illnesses or disabilities which may prevent me from being my family's breadwinner? Things of that sort.
Violence is something that is LEAST likely to cause me fear. Because that shit works both ways, and like the proverbial Old West quick draw gunslinger, there will always be folks who are just a bit quicker...
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Why wrong? All that says is the FBI used tear gas that can potentially be incendiary. That is not in question.... it also does not negate the fact the Davidians could have started it, as is on the recordings. I'm not absolving anyone of misdeeds here....
https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96518&page=1
+200
They could have arrested Weaver or Koresh in on the way to or from town, but no the fucks wanted to make a statement,...
I'm not sayin it wasn't handled entirely wrong and that evil doesn't perch itself sometimes inside the halls of justice. I'm just sayin that some blame for those children and other innocents rests on all sides, albeit weighted, significantly more on the aggressors.
The secondary point was that stockpiling stuff in general without a plan to bring it into full effect is not much of a plan.
Until it's your HOME.
You've made a choice,
Drawn a line in the sand,
Said, not one inch further,
My home, our way of life, our choice
MOLON LABE
The adults made a choice, for them AND their families, we go together.
The message they and others have left through history caused changes, educated others, and shined a light for others to see.
What you get from it may not be what somebody else gets. History repeats itself, over and over and over.
Man always has a choice, live free, resist slavery, die for a principle, your way of life.
Live in a herd, get fat n dumb, and herded into a chute...
Either way, same ending, it's how you choose to engrave that dash between the dates.
Your home, your choice.
Your children go with you, or your children get raised by what you hated and stood against. Your choice.
Perspective is where your feet are when it happens.
Reflection comes later, sometimes too late.
Second guessing another's line in the sand is futile.... it was their choice, and every man makes his own. If hes right, hes a hero, wrong, hes demonized. 100 years later the herded dont give a damn. The thinking man makes hard choices.
Ymmv
Interesting side note that yesterdays hero William Barr was heavily involved and never answered for his crimes at Ruby Ridge. He was very much a Clinton gun grabber to boot. I was either too young at the time or its been too many years to recall that detail, but plenty written about it. These people just never go away.
Appreciate the post, but maybe the line drawn could be somewhere else other than where the children sleep. Our children are ours to love, teach, and care for. But are not ours to sacrifice. They belong to themselves and God. That is my take.
Sieges have a way of ending the same throughout history. Making history somewhere else other than in a siege on the front porch sounds about right to me.
No plan survives first contact.
When the other side can and does bring overwhelming force, plan was inadequate to begin with. Ask the Japanese after 1945. Ask the Germans.
History repeats itself, over and over and over.
Delusional thinking leads to departure much faster than that of thinking men. Delusional men go out at the greater powers choice.
Thinking men pick theirs, and many of those die fat and happy after a successful life the delusional one cheated themselves and their family out of.
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cant change, the courage for those I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
John Wayne said an important thing about life.
(That's NOT directed at @MTN just a general observation seen true).
Ymmv
Wow. Just, wow. What “position” was that? The one where they wanted to be left alone? Or did they make their little community with the ultimate goal of having a standoff with federal agents?
Once the standoff started, where did you want the children to go? The fact that the feds were willing to go as far as they did with children present is the problem. Then have no problem posing on the ashes of children for some trophy photos.
But I guess that’s okay with you. Cause the kings men need to see what’s going on behind everyone’s walls.
And if "Your way of life" involves having sex with underage girls? The whole reason Koresh didn't want to surrender was because he knew he was going to prison for impregnating underage girls. Seems to be the M.O. of all these so called Messiahs, they are all child molesters...
Zero proof of that bs.
Standard .gov procedure. Shout child porn or molestation.
Was that what the raid was about? No.
Standard .gov procedure. Shout child porn or molestation.
Was that what the raid was about? No.
I dont have the play by play in front of me and I wasnt there. But I'll say if men with badges and guns are banging on any house door with children behind it, then its time to either surrender for the sake of the children or move on out without them to pull the whatever fight you might plan to have in a different direction. You likely won't get very far, but you sure wont be putting the children's lives at risk.
I remember clear as day watching the news at the time with my old man (I was mid-late teens). He was certainly no fan of Clinton but always did his best to accept all pro-US propaganda regardless. The news report in the aftermath showed a giant table covered in McDonalds Happy Meals as proof they meant to get the kids out alive and feed them at the time. He looked at me and said - see- they had this waiting for the kids. This was surely an accident. Been shaking my heads on that comment for decades now.
Koresh jogged through town every morning (proven). Local PD could have pinched him easy.
The Feds either wanted to BBQ everyone (including the children), or they are criminally incompetent. Take your pick.
The Feds either wanted to BBQ everyone (including the children), or they are criminally incompetent. Take your pick.
in the 25 years following, the following participants told, some under oath....
Kiri Jewell (sex at 10)
David Jewell (his shame at allowing it)
Joanna Vaega (to the best of her memory, it did, and the fear)
Grace Adams (it did, and he locked me in a cabin alone)
David Thibodeau (it did)
Mark Breault (it did)
Why call their testimonies lies and BS ? They were there. And none have changed their testimony yet had plenty of opportunities in 25 years.
It cannot be ignored any more than the fact the government raid was a ill deigned power play, a vestige of the bad that we all know exists and has exhibited regularly in recorded history.
Criminally incompetent.....
If I recall correctly, and perhaps I don't recall correctly as I was a college student and had other things on my mind at the time, but didn't the "sex with minors" revelation come after the fire - more as a way to justify what happened? But they didn't know it was happening before the raid.
There is something very, very wrong when it is more important to any government, particularly the U.S. government, to establish forced/violent superiority over it's Citizens than the well being of said Citizens. Particularly women and children.
What happened at Waco was institutionalized, wholesale murder of United States Citizens. Men, women and children. There should have been massive prosecution of the murderers. Those involved were and remain some very sick people and should be behind bars, at a minimum.
What happened at Waco was institutionalized, wholesale murder of United States Citizens. Men, women and children. There should have been massive prosecution of the murderers. Those involved were and remain some very sick people and should be behind bars, at a minimum.
That is/was the main reason for the 2A across the board,...
It was known b4 and investigated by social services, and that went no further, sadly, sickly, as many complaints of that nature did in those days.
And in the aftermath, when .gov began their "din do nuffin wrong" pass the buck, .gov used it to villianize the dead, and attempt to make their fuck up less horrendous.
Your memory is very good after 25 years.
I still wonder what brilliant stroke of Einsteinian genius made HS Precision choose that motherfucker to be their poster boy. That is basically akin to having John W. Gacy come out in praise of a particular brand of instant cement.
If I remember correctly, HS Precision got royally fucked for making such a brilliant marketing move, as they should be. I am glad I do not own any gear made by them. Fuck HS Precision. That kind of shit does not buff out from anyone's memory and should be constantly mentioned to remind others too.
Don't forgot it's another anniversary today. Timothy McViegh Killed 168 people to include 19 children in a daycare center.
Fucking epic. Great work by the readers to sleuth up these individuals who are now trying to blend into the private sector. It is almost like how scammers have been dug out of the Hide recently.
Many of those names should have been in prison for a very, very long time if we went by priorities first. Un-fucking-believable...
Good point......
Tom Houghton Sr. and Horiuchi were personal friends. HS/Houghton fucked themselves, no one did it to them. The first post on this thread encapsulates everything nicely;
Gun Company (H-S Precision) hires thug/murderer LON HORIUCHI as spokeperson
I had an HS stock, but got rid of it years ago. At the time I bought it, I didn't know about their relationship. Since then, I have never spent a dime on any HS product and never will. Makes no difference to me that Houghton Sr. is deceased.
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Doesn't matter. It was suspected beforehand, but not proven. My point was, Koresh was not coming out because he knew if he did he was going away as a child molester. Some people seem to want to wash all the blame away from the Davidians and lay it all on the government. Some want to lay it all on the Davidians and away from the government. It's really not that hard to understand the blame goes to both......
As the story goes Koresh went into Waco every morning, or multiple mornings a week, for breakfast (I had heard that on the news when this whole thing was occurring). If that was true then he could have been arrested in town at any time. If that was true then ALL of the blame goes to the government. One could argue that Koresh could have told his followers "If I am arrested in town burn it to the ground", but we will never know that now.
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