The gov cause that but they could care less. It's not their money in the first place, an if they need more they just steal more from you.
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Anniversary of burning little kids to death
- Thread starter deersniper
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It was a staged raid to give ATF and Janet Reno some good press.... and then it bit them in the ass. Just like the assault in Benghazi was a staged raid to kidnap Chris Stephens, so that Clinton and Obama could be hero's for "negotiating" his return.... until the real hero's got in their way....
what does the court record state,,, you should use more reliable sources than the times... try snopes or CNN or Comeedy Central. What charges were on the warrant? Why is the ATF going after child molesters? When were the rumors of a charge bought against the nutjob? before or after the ATF attacked them?
The issue most are having is the gov caused it all by not being smart an employing correct tactics in the first place. There are very few times you need a gun to effect an arrest when it done properly. That is why there is a difference between Cop's an LEO's, there was nothing but shit head cops at waco, LEO's were excluded, research who was told to stay out of it. Yea thats the untold story very few know about,...
You gotta know when to hold to em and know when to fold em.
1993, 1996, and 2014 present Sleds evidence, dont push past a point, dont end up dead, win, exonerated (93 & 14), 96 no one died by .gov excess. The Constitutional system held and won. That is undeniable and not conjecture.
94 and 2016 dead and (94 - lost in court ), 16, yet to be determined. Fat lady hasn't sung yet.
And, in the cases DS brings up, his point of view, no justice bc ppl tax $ paid the settlements,
The middle ground, .GOV LOST !!!!!
the people know it, and cynically, that's just the cost of doing business in a free country versus a totalitarian country, the free people still win but pay, versus hello dead or hello camp...
And the other SIDE... HC n crew, gotta put those deplorables away, by any means, death n camps. So far, we ain't there. AJ knows US isnt CentAm.... AJ knows some facts...
Yomv
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I just posted the Times as an example, there are plenty of news choices out there, pick your poison. There is no court record on the child molestation because he died before he charged. Does that mean it didn't happen? I guess Booth didn't kill Lincoln because he died in a barn fire and there is no record in court? Doesn't make any sense. And yes, the raid itself was about weapons, but it comes back around as the reason he refused to let anyone leave.
Well, I'm not sure how more clear I could be that I hold the government responsible as well for the shit show of an arrest attempt. I am a retired LEO, and you would be hard pressed to find anyone with a dimmer view of the FBI than me..... there's a reason they are called "Famous But Incompetent" by street cops across the country.
well, you are answering only part of the question,,,not really answering but diverting,,, its a start I guess,,,, hopefully you educate yourself a bit more on facts and truth,,, not accusations and misdirection.
I think we all are saying the same thing in a round about way. The whole issue an murdering of all was do to gov being stupid. Like any Crime if you start it, cause it, you own it all from that point on,... Was the Branch shit heads yes, but like I said before cops, not LEO's stepped on their dicks from the get go, therefor they own it,...
RR and Waco got them bloated budgets and full on military conversion of these corrupt dangerous federal agencies..
OKC was also a fund raising effort for these agencies.
OKC was also a fund raising effort for these agencies.
Fact OKC, was gov opp from the get go. Mc dumbass was a patsy nothing more nothing less.
And the massive rise of the militia movement. The Clintons simply did not anticipate that and they were scared.
After 9/11 they empowered themselves as Gods. The UnPatriot Act.
Correct there were no/none/ illegal weapons found. All ATF evidence was based on a CI who was full of shit an trying to duck his own issue with ATF. The ATF was looking for an getting funded via numbers back then,...
yep, never let a crisis go to waste, and if there isnt a crisis , invent one,,, our government is an existential threat to teh republic and thinks they are the good guys..we live in dangerous times my friends.
At least most see clearly now.
At least most see clearly now.
What Gunfighter said is true... If all the FBI/BATFE wanted to do was arrest either Weaver, or Koresh, they just had to wait and pick them up when they were driving into town. To say they couldn't wait to arrest them is a false argument, because they eventually DID have to wait to get Weaver, and for the fire that ended the Waco standoff. In both cases, they could have saved lives, and a great many work hours by detailing a couple of agents to watch the people they wanted to arrest, and pick them up once they left the compounds.
Clearly, they wanted the big press of a giant raid in order to justify their agency, or the existence of agency tactical units and their militaristic equipment.
There was, but it's nothing you would accept.
It was there and circumstantial, and therein lies the LE conundrum, investigate or wait. (Do Saudis learning to fly merit investigation or wait? We know where that went.....)
It merited a reasonable and fair investigation that would have cleared the gun crime assumption and all their names.
Sometimes LE has a duty to investigate to clear people rather than incarcerate, that is an American principle.
.Gov under BC abused every American principle we stand for. Of that, there is no question.
In your own words, 93 and 94 gave you the evidence that created your distrust of .Gov. The evidence was there b4 you rrecognized it or accepted it.
Much evidence waits in the darkness for light to reveal it. Keep bringing light AJ....
these two events got me to arm up, and if you look at it, the American public armed up big time since these events, they see whats going on and aint going to go along quietly with the program...like I said one party bought us to this point and it aint the citizenry.
my point was Waco and bundy are two different incidents lets keep them separate. Dont know about Vegas, maybe it deserves its own discussion.
My point is when something like Bundy happens it doesn't stop at a road intersection in the desert. It is national. People from all over the US showed up. Operatives on both sides were at work in almost every state not just at the Bundy Ranch. The Millers went to the Bundy Ranch and participated in the unrest there. They drove an hour down the road to Vegas and ambushed and killed 3 cops eating at a restaurant. Now if someone can infer Oklahoma City was an inside job or speculate David Koresh was an opportunity for the DOJ to make themselves look good (fail), I believe that since the Millers were A) at the Bundy Standoff and B) Killed police officers in Vegas an hour drive away, You can say it might be related.
okay i guess they might be related,,, whats the point. I dont know the facts on the vegas shooting, but do remember cops getting killed in a restaurant.
yes. They should have been charged and convicted criminally like a "regular person " and any payouts should come from them personally and the agency's budget.
Qualified immunity is utter bull shit. That and the 2 tier justice system has led to the criminality/corruption/incompetence we have at all levels of .gov today.
wonder what would happen to a "regular person" that commits a b and e plus double murder plus swearing or fraudulent documents? Jail for a long time and any civil suit would come out of their own pocket.
No,there are still people stirring shit,always will be.
There is a difference between a ball washer and a ball carrier.
Shining a spotlight on the tyranny and other issues in our country is not stirring shit. It's the statist apologists that cause issues and file hurt feelings reports.
I'm not sure how closely you followed the news at that time, but the Koresh idiot did try to come out and talk after the siege and see if they could work out a solution, but the moment he opened the door the agents started shooting at him (and as I recall hit him in the hand) and well pretty much kept up that line from then on, basically anytime someone showed themselves, the agents tried to kill them, so it makes it a bit hard to find a peaceable solution.
From the get go, the Clinton regime wanted blood and lots of it.
Bancat is real tricky for some to understand, shouldn't be, a little pussy can bring the strongest baddest man down.... happens every day. ?????
Some are owned by pussy, others own it,...Many who think they own it an wear it as a badge of honor, find out one day the true meaning of alimony,.... The fucking you get for the fucking you got,... renting has it's own draw backs, but long term your better off. Nothing like buying tits unknowns,...
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You never own it. In the best of cases, it's either a short or long term rental. No refunds on the damage deposit.....
I'm also not forgetting the Oklahoma City bombing, with Timothy McVeigh's brand of Forrest Carter's book "Gone to Texas."
But Reno's biggest blunder on the Waco assault ---- imo --- was by staging the attack on a gusty windy day...that fueled the flames like a wildfire on the compound.
But Reno's biggest blunder on the Waco assault ---- imo --- was by staging the attack on a gusty windy day...that fueled the flames like a wildfire on the compound.
Dont forget Delta was there as well. While it was just a rumor at the time its been confirmed over the years.
A stain on the history of the Army.
They were there only in an advisory/training capacity.?
As the frog gets sleepy and starts to like the temp of the bathwater..........
Funny how everything now is Navy SEALs this Navy SEALS that. Never hear about anything about Delta. We have two ex Navy SEALs in our community. Everyone know who they are. We have one guy I suspect was with Delta but I will never know for sure. Nobody here even knows his name.
My coworkers and I were also talking about this last night, and one of them mentioned that as the compound began to go up in flames, an armored vehicle deliberately rammed the walls of the structure in multiple spots to provide cross-ventilation for the fire to explode in earnest. Has this been verified too?
What is today, was not back then.
There are lots of men that only get Mission Complete stamped on the AAR, if they
(1) Don't fuckup an shit goes half ass as planned.
(2) Do fuckup but it's not known outside of their close circle.
(3) Fuck it up so bad their actions are hid because of their lack of mental ability,...an only outed when ones life diary is opened.
Most of the guys from long ago are starting to get real old, an life diary's are being found/outed. There are a few, I would give my left nut to see/read,...
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