Any regret buying an alpha scope?

[Jones D]

Im looking for some opinions and experiences with alpha level scopes. Im looking for a scope to put on top of a new build. Primary use will be hunting but outside of hunting season it will be used for range days.

Was thinking I wanted a lighter/compact ffp mpvo. I’m not opposed to “buy once cry once” but wondering if people have regretted their alpha glass purchase and down graded afterwards? Ive only owned mid level glass in a dmr and t5xi. I was really happy with them but always left wondering what those mystical alpha level scopes are like.

Im looking at three vastly different price points:
TT 315m / NF 4-16 atacr / apex optics 315 hunter

I know there are a ton of scopes that exist between these options but I’m up in Canada so these are easier to come by. Plenty of NF dealers up here, and TT and apex are based here.

Thanks

 

[Makinchips208]

Do you like top tier items in other activities or regret having quality?
Hand tools?
Power tools?
Vehicles?
Shoes?
Etc?

I have managed to scrape together enough for several nightforce scopes and am pleased with the purchases.

 

[Bsnyder]

Only regret I had was the time it took to buy more. I started with one. Then I got another one. Now I’m trying to figure out what I can sell to fund more. To answer your question no. Absolutely no regrets. I have a March and a schidmt and bender. Wouldn’t trade em for anything. Range days are more fun as I shoot those rifles more now because I have better glass and can read conditions through the scope better than with my mid tire optics.

 

[FuhQ]

Im looking for some opinions and experiences with alpha level scopes. Im looking for a scope to put on top of a new build. Primary use will be hunting but outside of hunting season it will be used for range days.

Was thinking I wanted a lighter/compact ffp mpvo. I’m not opposed to “buy once cry once” but wondering if people have regretted their alpha glass purchase and down graded afterwards? Ive only owned mid level glass in a dmr and t5xi. I was really happy with them but always left wondering what those mystical alpha level scopes are like.

Im looking at three vastly different price points:
TT 315m / NF 4-16 atacr / apex optics 315 hunter

I know there are a ton of scopes that exist between these options but I’m up in Canada so these are easier to come by. Plenty of NF dealers up here, and TT and apex are based here.

Thanks

Look into the Kahles K318i…

 

[Chickentoast]

I've had ZCO, TT, NF for bolt guns. Dumped for XTR3's and G3's - I didn't feel the price diff for ZCO or TT was worth the quality difference. NF is just more expensive without any quality increase. Still have a S&B 3-20 ultra short DTII+ MSR2 for a gas gun which I also love.

 

[Secant]

I have no regret. If anything, I probably should have bought sooner. In the big scheme, scopes aren’t really expensive. I don’t have that apex, but I have the 4-16 ATACR and the 3-15 Tangent. I prefer the Tangent to the ATACR, but ZCO has lived up to the hype more than any other scope for me.

 

[Rerun7]

I've had ZCO, TT, NF for bolt guns. Dumped for XTR3's and G3's - I didn't feel the price diff for ZCO or TT was worth the quality difference. NF is just more expensive without any quality increase. Still have a S&B 3-20 ultra short DTII+ MSR2 for a gas gun which I also love.

I did the same. Got an alpha scope because I thought I was missing out. Truth is, the scope I had before it never caused me to miss a shot. I ended up selling it and going back to mid tier to use the funds for other things. I didn’t feel like the performance difference from $1500 to $2500 justified the cost difference.

 

[Matt ironwood]

Im looking for some opinions and experiences with alpha level scopes. Im looking for a scope to put on top of a new build. Primary use will be hunting but outside of hunting season it will be used for range days.

Was thinking I wanted a lighter/compact ffp mpvo. I’m not opposed to “buy once cry once” but wondering if people have regretted their alpha glass purchase and down graded afterwards? Ive only owned mid level glass in a dmr and t5xi. I was really happy with them but always left wondering what those mystical alpha level scopes are like.

Im looking at three vastly different price points:
TT 315m / NF 4-16 atacr / apex optics 315 hunter

I know there are a ton of scopes that exist between these options but I’m up in Canada so these are easier to come by. Plenty of NF dealers up here, and TT and apex are based here.

Thanks

I have an opinion that is not popular. I bought the tangent 315 lrh moa scope. And I hate it, I hate the elevation turret. And I hate that the parallax has no numbers to refrence on distance. I always feel like I haven’t adjusted all parallax out,

I do love my Schmidt and benders, to the inexpensive classic, zenith, and now pm11.

I also love my atacr, it’s on a range only gun, as the glass is not as good as the tt or the Schmidt’s, but I absolutely love it, the turrets are nice, I think it’s under rated. Tho not better than Schmidt’s or zco

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I love my ZCO's and I definitely don't regret it. I loved my kahles too and I like how the kahles is set up better with the parallax location, but the zco outperforms it and especially as conditions get worse but for the money, I still think a used 525i is the best bang for the buck you can find. That said, for me, after shooting zco on a few rifles, it's hard to then shoot with anything else.

 

[Jones D]

I have an opinion that is not popular. I bought the tangent 315 lrh moa scope. And I hate it, I hate the elevation turret. And I hate that the parallax has no numbers to refrence on distance. I always feel like I haven’t adjusted all parallax out,

I do love my Schmidt and benders, to the inexpensive classic, zenith, and now pm11.

I also love my atacr, it’s on a range only gun, as the glass is not as good as the tt or the Schmidt’s, but I absolutely love it, the turrets are nice, I think it’s under rated. Tho not better than Schmidt’s or zco

Do you intend to try and switch for the M or P model since they aren’t working for you? I’ve been fairly lucky that I’ve never had the elevation or windage moved unintentionally while in the bush. The tt hunter turrets never really interested me. since it can get cold in hunting season and wearing gloves and trying to pull the turrets up and rotate when frosty could be tricky.

 

[rothgyr]

After $1800, buy whatever has the features you want. Preferences for eyebox, fov, low light, illumination, reticle, turret style, etc. Are personal. If you care about the best picture over any of those, buy an alpha glass scope and enjoy.

 

[TheOE800]

TT M series turrets are my favorite on the planet Earth. The optics are great and the parallax performance is great, but Gen 3XR in the 3-15 format isn’t great and the illumination is weak.

 

[hafejd30]

I really like the NF ATACR 4-16. Especially for hunting or gas gun setup. I like the covered windage/low profile locking elevation turret and overall toughness that comes with the NF. They have a reputation for being tough and reliable optics which is great while on a hunt should something happen.

But everyone has their preferences. My main concern for optics is reliability. Even above glass quality. For hunting I absolutely won’t buy a FFP scope without illumination.

My current optics choice are Burris XTR for the cheaper end and NF ATACR for the upper. Pick a reticle you like. For mine I like the MIL XT. Some reticles are very thin. Which for hunting would remove them from consideration with those reticles

 

[FuhQ]

After $1800, buy whatever has the features you want. Preferences for eyebox, fov, low light, illumination, reticle, turret style, etc. Are personal. If you care about the best picture over any of those, buy an alpha glass scope and enjoy.

I'd say more-or-less $2,500+ is all about the same. Under $2,500 MSRP gets competitive for the top spots.

 

[FuhQ]

I really like the NF ATACR 4-16. Especially for hunting or gas gun setup. I like the covered windage/low profile locking elevation turret and overall toughness that comes with the NF. They have a reputation for being tough and reliable optics which is great while on a hunt should something happen.

But everyone has their preferences. My main concern for optics is reliability. Even above glass quality. For hunting I absolutely won’t buy a FFP scope without illumination.

My current optics choice are Burris XTR for the cheaper end and NF ATACR for the upper. Pick a reticle you like. For mine I like the MIL XT. Some reticles are very thin. Which for hunting would remove them from consideration with those reticles

My new NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 MIL-XT will be here tomorrow. I figured what the hell and gave one a try. I think my next big scope purchase will be a ZCO 527 to compare to all my other alpha-tier scopes.

As was stated above, a used K525i or K318i is hard to beat. And like you said, the new Burris XTR-3i scopes are also excellent for the money.

 

[hafejd30]

My new NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 MIL-XT will be here tomorrow. I figured what the hell and gave one a try. I think my next big scope purchase will be a ZCO 527 to compare to all my other alpha-tier scopes.

As was stated above, a used K525i or K318i is hard to beat. And like you said, the new Burris XTR-3i scopes are also excellent for the money.

Let me know how the 5-25 is. I’ve owned several 4-16’s, 7-35 and 4-20

 

[Huskydriver]

Wait NF is alpha glass now rofl?

 

[Milf Dots]

I'm not a fan of alpha glass because I don't own one. I know, GBPSWE.

 

[FuhQ]

Wait NF is alpha glass now rofl?

Price wise, the ATACR is. Not sure on glass quality, but it sure can't be any worse or more outdated than Leupold or Schmidt.

 

[penguinofsleep]

Seems like I'm the odd one out here so far - Not sure if this is truely "alpha" or not (I don't think it is, but I know others do), but I slightly regret buying the ATACR 4-16 in the way OP is saying.

It's a great optic and I have no complaints about the optic itself aside from the fact that it seems like the reticle is ever so SLIGHTLY crooked (i.e. - not perfectly perpendicular + level). And buying it didn't cause any serious financial burden or the like. But I still think the difference in performance between this $2500MSRP and a $1500ish MSRP scope (both of which are slightly less street price) isn't a big enough difference for $1k. I feel like that ~$1k would have been better put towards a "definite" alpha level optic such as a ZCO, TT, etc. , put towards other hobbies, saved / invested, or just put towards a vacation or something of the sort. That or I'm a poor because I still think $1k matters....

On the flip side, because I do like the scope and it's a small enough regret that I'm not going to take the time/effort to sell it at a loss and just to buy another scope to replace it with. And I also regret not going "alpha" tier on some optics that I went "mid" or "good" tier on.

 

[Guthwine]

Honestly, my PMII 6-36 does not do anything better than my Minox ZP5. Sure there are minor differences but the extra cost is probably better spent in ammo. I would say mid tier is where it's at.

 

[shields shtr]

Honestly, my PMII 6-36 does not do anything better than my Minox ZP5.

I thought the ZP5 was "alpha". I had a ZP5 and sold it. I honestly wish I would have kept it. In my opinion, the best glass out there. It didn't have the chunky turret clicks that everyone seems to like, but it tracked perfect and was amazing to look through.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Wait NF is alpha glass now rofl?

I came here knowing you were going to comment such hurtful things. I was not disappointed.

 

[Huskydriver]

I came here knowing you were going to comment such hurtful things. I was not disappointed.

The truth be like that sometimes....

 

[Long Range 338]

If TT is on your short list already there is no reason to look any further. Typically price is the limiting factor to consider TT... If size is a major consideration I would add S&B ultra short to the list. The ATACR is known to be good quality but no idea if it is saving any weight or size. Apex might be a viable option but you are asking about Alpha tier optics.

 

[TheOE800]

Wait NF is alpha glass now rofl?

Definitely a Jesse Pinkman drinking water gif moment here.

Price wise, the ATACR is. Not sure on glass quality, but it sure can't be any worse or more outdated than Leupold or Schmidt.

Been saying for years NF is high on their own farts with pricing. Their .mil pricing should be the street price LOL.

 

[4O6shootist]

Alpha glass right now that has modern reticles is pretty much TT vs ZCO. Zco has better pricing and only gives any points away in the turret department. I've had my zco, friends TT and a zp5 all next to one another, and it's very hard to see much or any difference in the conditions that we had at the moment. I'd like to try a TT with the jtac reticle, but the price is hard to swallow for just a better turret feel. I didn't really include the zp5 as alpha since they're a dated design(works great however) and now that Blaser USA is handling and repairs or warranty issues, that's slipped and you'll expect long turn arounds to get anything fixed.

 

[TheOE800]

Completely tool-less turret zero system is a far cry from just superior feel.

 

[psharon78]

No I've never regretted buying alpha glass. What I do regret is going through the upgrade process to buy alpha glass instead of just saving up and buying it in the first place.

 

[koshkin]

Completely tool-less turret zero system is a far cry from just superior feel.

There are now other tool-less designs out, but Tangent does have some weird magic in those turrets. Whether it is worth the price is a personal choice.
I will say that I have TT315M 3-15x50 and TT525P 5-25x56 that will be buried with me some day, one in each hand.

ILya

 

[Jabberjaw]

I’m a NF guy and I’ve never regret buying one, it’s only a matter of if I need it or I not.

 

[ELCO82]

Only regret is not buying it sooner.

 

[Kalthoff]

While hunting you will be looking through your binoculars or spotting scope for hours each day, but only through the rifle scope for brief moments.

For that reason my hunting binocular is the best money can buy, but my hunting rifle scope is a mid-range affair.

 

[TheOE800]

There are now other tool-less designs out, but Tangent does have some weird magic in those turrets. Whether it is worth the price is a personal choice.
I will say that I have TT315M 3-15x50 and TT525P 5-25x56 that will be buried with me some day, one in each hand.

ILya

Absolutely. My point was that it’s not just a better feeling turret for $1K more than ZCO, it’s a more functional turret.

 

[acudaowner]

only if I had to use my own money I would not pay that much other wise .

 

[Guthwine]

I thought the ZP5 was "alpha". I had a ZP5 and sold it. I honestly wish I would have kept it. In my opinion, the best glass out there. It didn't have the chunky turret clicks that everyone seems to like, but it tracked perfect and was amazing to look through.

Well they used to be on the cheaper side, but it seems the recent price hike changed that.

 

[TheBigCountry]

I’m a poor. I still use G2 Razors and the new Steiner T6.

 

[Krob95]

No regrets buying alpha tier glass. I’ve had Schmidt’s, ZCO’s, and had/ currently own a Tangent. If you budget allows, just get the tangent. You will not regret it. You don’t know what you’re missing until you get behind something like that. Ain’t that right @siscoe308

 

[4O6shootist]

I'll keep looking for a second hand jtac then lol looks like resale is near zco msrp.

 

[TacosGigante]

I have at least one

 

[Chris1972]

I’m still trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong that I’m not resetting my turret enough for it to be relevant.

 

[jzerfoss]

I went from Bushnell to Kahles to S&B to NF. I had several of each and the NF is the only brand that hasn't needed to go back for one reason or another. Kahles was the worst with 3 of the 4 needing to go back for shifting reticles(3 K624s and 1 K525 that was never used).

I love my ATACRs but with NF ATACR the downside is the glass varies a bit from model to model and even within the model. In my experience the glass quality with the ATACR from worst to best is 5-25, 4-20, 4-16, 7-35. Within my 7-35s my oldest H-59 is the best glass with the 2 Mil-XTs being very close together. Also my 3 4-16s are very close in glass quality but kinda have a tight eyebox. I do think the ATACR presents the best quality to price ratio especially with how easy it is to get deals on them.

With all that being said Leupold is proof that great glass isn't necessary to hit targets and win competitions...

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I’m a poor. I still use G2 Razors and the new Steiner T6.

Is the Steiner T6 mid range? I sure like mine. Maybe I am a poor.

 

[FuhQ]

I went from Bushnell to Kahles to S&B to NF. I had several of each and the NF is the only brand that hasn't needed to go back for one reason or another. Kahles was the worst with 3 of the 4 needing to go back for shifting reticles(3 K624s and 1 K525 that was never used).

I love my ATACRs but with NF ATACR the downside is the glass varies a bit from model to model and even within the model. In my experience the glass quality with the ATACR from worst to best is 5-25, 4-20, 4-16, 7-35. Within my 7-35s my oldest H-59 is the best glass with the 2 Mil-XTs being very close together. Also my 3 4-16s are very close in glass quality but kinda have a tight eyebox. I do think the ATACR presents the best quality to price ratio especially with how easy it is to get deals on them.

With all that being said Leupold is proof that great glass isn't necessary to hit targets and win competitions...

Shifting reticles? How far would they shift? What was your prognosis based on? I’m curious to know if one of my K624’s might be affected…

 

[rothgyr]

With all that being said Leupold is proof that great glass isn't necessary to hit targets and win competitions...

Shots fired, lol. Feels like Leupold went down the list of the top 800 PRS shooters and bought them all.

 

[TheOE800]

I’m still trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong that I’m not resetting my turret enough for it to be relevant.

Some people must not use the zero offset in their ballistic software? It’s a nice to have, but the utility can be fairly limited depending on your use case.

 

[4O6shootist]

Kahles was the worst with 3 of the 4 needing to go back for shifting reticles(3 K624s and 1 K525 that was never used).

Funny you say that. I have one kahles that does this, but it doesn't affect accuracy because when the reticle shift, it also shifts the FOV with reticle. It happens when adjusting the magnification ring from + to -. I also had three Burris xtr3, do this all mounted to heavy recoil lightish big magnum hunting rifles. My 300 Norma imp has worn a 5-25 atacr after the xtr3 failed. It's getting a new barrel atm, so swapped the atacr to another rifle. I just noticed 2 weeks ago, that scope is also now shifting the reticle/fov upon moving mag ring + and -. So Nightforce isn't impervious to this either. However a 9# 300 Norma improved with a big brake, creates a lot of impulse recoil and immediately a large braking energy from the muzzle device. My 338 rum has killed a few optics from this as well. Lot of Gs happening there.

 

[Islas82]

I regret selling my alpha scopes.

 

[Scopeye]

Im looking for some opinions and experiences with alpha level scopes. Im looking for a scope to put on top of a new build. Primary use will be hunting but outside of hunting season it will be used for range days.

Was thinking I wanted a lighter/compact ffp mpvo. I’m not opposed to “buy once cry once” but wondering if people have regretted their alpha glass purchase and down graded afterwards? Ive only owned mid level glass in a dmr and t5xi. I was really happy with them but always left wondering what those mystical alpha level scopes are like.

Im looking at three vastly different price points:
TT 315m / NF 4-16 atacr / apex optics 315 hunter

I know there are a ton of scopes that exist between these options but I’m up in Canada so these are easier to come by. Plenty of NF dealers up here, and TT and apex are based here.

Thanks

I personally don't like JOL made optics. They're not even close to Alpha. I prefer made by LOW better quality and reliability with less QC issues.
JMHO but think JOL is the China of Japan. I'd prefer buying any Chinese Athlons (specifically Midas HD line and up) over Japan made JOL scopes based on what I own and owned and bought and tested and I returned a lot of scopes for refund and also noticed how really cheap they can be sold for which is very concerning.

If you're in Canada I'd suggest specifically researching what scopes do well in colder climates without any issues.

 

[koshkin]

I personally don't like JOL made optics. They're not even close to Alpha. I prefer made by LOW better quality and reliability with less QC issues.
JMHO but think JOL is the China of Japan. I'd prefer buying any Chinese Athlons (specifically Midas HD line and up) over Japan made JOL scopes based on what I own and owned and bought and tested and I returned a lot of scopes for refund and also noticed how really cheap they can be sold for which is very concerning.

If you're in Canada I'd suggest specifically researching what scopes do well in colder climates without any issues.

I have had exceedingly good luck with 3-18x50 and 2-12x44 designs from JOL. I have not spent much time with their 8x erector designs, but I have seen multiple copies of the 6x erector scopes. A good number of people bought them per my recommendation and are not having any issues beyond the statistically normal.

There are three main OEMs in Japan. All three are capable of making pretty high quality stuff. JOL is the most aggressive of the three at the moment and it sounds like they think they are playing catch-up. At some point, I will look at their higher end products, but in the mid-range, from what I have seen, they acquit themselves very well.

ILya