But the scope has more than 65 MOA. All you have to do is slip your zero stop. You're being deceptive. The 65 MOA is the amount of "UP" from the stop. Either way, use what you like best.
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Rifle Scopes ATACR vs S&B PMII 5-25
- Thread starter JayCarver
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- atacr nightforce
But the scope has more than 65 MOA. All you have to do is slip your zero stop. You're being deceptive. The 65 MOA is the amount of "UP" from the stop. Either way, use what you like best.
So if I understand correctly from a 100 yard zero I have 65 moa up, if I want more I have to reset the turret in the feild to get another 35ish moa, so then my zero is ???.
Great then I dial back down to zero & reset the zero stop to get back to where I started, all in the feild....hopefully correctly...
Over here I would pay another $1000+ dollars for the privillage of having to do that.....thanks but no thanks I will stay with my NFs...
Choose what you like best. Fact is it isn't a shot you can't make with S&B...your insistence on MOA makes it more difficult but not impossible.
I'm confused, you are saying if I had a moa S&B I could still shoot 3000 yards+ with it using the centre cross hair & a 100 yard zero ?...
My maths makes that very difficult even with a mil scope & mucking around, much easy to grab the dial & just keep turning it.
I would have one of my 5-25 x 56 Premiers back in an insant over the S&B, at least they have 96moa above the zero stop.
But you are right I will keep using what I like & fully intend to
Using my 5-25 with an MSR reticle and 44 moa Spuhr mount my TRG-42 can get to 2350 using a 300 gr Scenar, providing I max out the reticle as well. Running some numbers on JBM with a 375 it would seem like that setup is good to beyond 3000.
I bought my MOAR reticle ATACR from Jay and Chris at SportOptics and they mounted it for me atop my new 6.5 Creedmoor build from Brad and Keith at Phoenix Custom Rifles and all I can say is to mimick the line from Ferris Bueller's Day Off .... "Ohhhhhh, Yeahhhhhh!"
This is how I thought shooting should always be. Scope clarity is sharp, reticle is a pleasure for older eyes, easy to operate. I've owned nearly 20 scopes over the years and this one is at the top of the pyramid. Admittedly, I cannot afford an S&B or U.S. Optic so the ATACR is the ceiling for me. Now I'm planning to go back to Jay and Chris and bargain for another ATACR or a Swaro Z5 5-25 with ballistic turrets. That will be a nice duel for optical clarity.
The ATACR will not disappoint you.
This is how I thought shooting should always be. Scope clarity is sharp, reticle is a pleasure for older eyes, easy to operate. I've owned nearly 20 scopes over the years and this one is at the top of the pyramid. Admittedly, I cannot afford an S&B or U.S. Optic so the ATACR is the ceiling for me. Now I'm planning to go back to Jay and Chris and bargain for another ATACR or a Swaro Z5 5-25 with ballistic turrets. That will be a nice duel for optical clarity.
The ATACR will not disappoint you.
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One question that has nagged at me about the ATACR is the mag range. One of my favorite "design" aspects of the 5.5-22 is the fact that I can use my reticle at max, half, and minimum mags and it subtends perfectly. I always thought it was the most intuitive mag range in the SFP scope market, and I don't know why NF changed that.
Redhooker, how does the NSX 5.5-22 work on 11x and what is min mag. Sorry, just don't know and would like to.
At full power it is half mil per line. At 11 power (which is perfectly marked and is one half of full) each line is a mil, at minimum power (5.5-which is again half of 11 power) each line is 2 mils. I have set up a yardstick at 100 yards and it subtends perfectly. I always thought this was by design but maybe it was just a happy coincidence?
I'm not tracking, the 5-25 can be used the same way. It has a dot at 12.5x to signify half power.
At 12.5x or half power the reticle is worth twice value. At 5x it is worth 5 times the value.
At 12.5x or half power the reticle is worth twice value. At 5x it is worth 5 times the value.
I hate Nightforce's illumination. I was really hoping they changed the adjustment on the ATACR. That been said, I bought one anyway and it is great.
I am sure they subtend as well as we would expect from a NF product, the 4x magnification setup just seemed mathematically easier. I guess there is a demand for 5x variable powers, but the tunneling that always seems to come with it just seems to be a waste in my unqualified opinion. I would be just as happy with a 6-24 if you don't lose FOV dialing down the power. Perhaps there is a "tactical" use for lowering your power and not gaining FOV but that use escapes me.
This is not a complaint-just please don't quit making the old NXS scopes as they are still a perfect fit for many of us out here! I still believe if you made a 5.5-22 F1 and sold it for under $2500 it would be as though NF could print money at will.
Anyone else waiting on an ATACR MOAR? My dealer said that there is a hold up with a key component, specific to the MOAR, so i assume it has something to do with the turrets or erector.
00bullit, any insight?
My dealer has been saying "end of this week" for the past 5 weeks.
00bullit, any insight?
My dealer has been saying "end of this week" for the past 5 weeks.
I can understand being partial to your guy , but if you need one, I just picked one up from euro optics
but that financing your guy has could be dangerous , id be buying lots
but that financing your guy has could be dangerous
, id be buying lots
The only holdup is that the ATACR is selling at an unpredicted rate. The MOAR being the more popular reticle choice. There are some dealers that order well in advance to keep a steady supply in inventory to lessen the burden of waiting to the customer. All NF scopes are built to order and there are associated lead times for delivery.
Interesting. My dealer said that they got off the horn with them just yesterday. They said 10 of the ones on the assembly bench were waiting on a certain part (MOAR only). Mil-r scopes have been coming in on a weekly basis at my dealer. My dealer is Bear Basin. They are a pretty big outfit, so i don't think its a lack of prep for demand on their part. Just lack of supply.
The ATACR is quickly becoming one of my favorite scopes and I am generally a FFP guy... the more i use it, the more I like it.
Is the reticle any thicker? I love my NXS but the reticle is just so damn fine, its definately harder to shoot on darker targets without the reticle "blending". I'm surprised you like a SFP scope that much.
Reticle is fine too me... when I find the reticles are really thin, and blending I snap the illumination on, usually enough to give it that contrast.
I am surprised I liked it as much as I do too. It's a awesome scope.
Since NF is reading this stuff, maybe you guys here need to email them and address it to Kyle B asking him to bring out a ATACR in FFP, no Beastly frills just the exact same scope in FFP.
Call, that might help... with brisk sales and rabid demand I would think you can convince them to offer one. Couldn't hurt.
I am surprised I liked it as much as I do too. It's a awesome scope.
Since NF is reading this stuff, maybe you guys here need to email them and address it to Kyle B asking him to bring out a ATACR in FFP, no Beastly frills just the exact same scope in FFP.
Call, that might help... with brisk sales and rabid demand I would think you can convince them to offer one. Couldn't hurt.
All....we read these boards and use them to gather intel. Change is not effected overnight. But we are hearing what the end users want. Things are in the works. Good things. Phone calls and emails in regards will only bog us down and absorb resources.
I just got back from the range with my new atacr/moar
tracking , shooting at 5x then 25x held same zero, box drill tracked right back to where it started
the reticle seems to be fine enough for precision target work, the thickness is .14moa and seemed to mate well with my targets 3/32" horiz and vertica line to the center of the target
the clarity , to me seemed noticeably better then my nxs , now my other is the 5.5-22x50mm so the atacr being 56mm obviously letting in a bit more light, but it did seem a bit more crisp and better edge to edge clarity (the atacr)
FFP would be nice as well
tracking , shooting at 5x then 25x held same zero, box drill tracked right back to where it started
the reticle seems to be fine enough for precision target work, the thickness is .14moa and seemed to mate well with my targets 3/32" horiz and vertica line to the center of the target
the clarity , to me seemed noticeably better then my nxs , now my other is the 5.5-22x50mm so the atacr being 56mm obviously letting in a bit more light, but it did seem a bit more crisp and better edge to edge clarity (the atacr)
FFP would be nice as well
Since NF is reading this stuff, maybe you guys here need to email them and address it to Kyle B asking him to bring out a ATACR in FFP, no Beastly frills just the exact same scope in FFP.
Call, that might help... with brisk sales and rabid demand I would think you can convince them to offer one. Couldn't hurt.
People have been screaming for this for years and falls on deaf ears. We told them that when we shot for them back around 2008-2009 and used the 3-15 F1s. They came out with a SFP 5-25 and the "Beast". They won't bring a FFP ATACR out untill the Beast is in the black as no one would spend a thousand dollars more for the Beast if they can get a FFP 5-25x F1. If they came out with a 5-25 F1 in the same $2100 price range I would buy one.
Rob.....alot has changed since then. Mostly the past 18-20 months.
It may have fallen on deaf ears then, not now. We just ask that you be patient if possible. We cannot effect change overnight. We focus heavily on quality and perfecting designs takes time.
I wasn't just talking about deaf ears back then but during the whole time the ATACR was being developed as well. Heard it here and at SHOT. People have been asking for it since the 3-15 came out in FFP. Hopefully you guys do come out with a FFP 5-25 in that price range as like I have always said you would sell a ton.
MOAR IS THE SHIT !!!!
5X25 ATACR FFP
2.5 X 10 /42 FFP
i would sell everything and go all NIGHTFORCE .
btw miss my flip caps....... make the 5x25 like the 2.5 x 10..... PLEASE !!!....
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Shot the 2.5-10x 42 a lot today on my GAP Gladius...
All the shots were slung and the scope was just awesome. I really liked it a lot
All the shots were slung and the scope was just awesome. I really liked it a lot
NF
I would buy both a ffp 2-10x42 and 5-25 ATACR, and so would several of the guys I shoot with.
I would buy both a ffp 2-10x42 and 5-25 ATACR, and so would several of the guys I shoot with.
heres the moar on 25x through the scope pic , targets are at 100yards , the "thicker" lines on the targets horiz and vert to center dot are just about 3/32" , the dot is 1/2"
the bottom "cross" target was perfect for testing the poi at diff magnifications.
I do have a 5 round group on that , but will post later as my camera battery is charging (all rounds are in 1/2" )
the actual view through the scope is way more clear
the bottom "cross" target was perfect for testing the poi at diff magnifications.
I do have a 5 round group on that , but will post later as my camera battery is charging (all rounds are in 1/2" )
the actual view through the scope is way more clear
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I would buy two, or maybe three if it was priced on par with the current F1 or even a couple hundred more.
My dealer just got off the horn with nightforce about lag time on ATACR MOAR's. They are the third largest dealer in the US(according to them) for nightforce scopes and have not seen ATACR MOAR's in 7-8 weeks.
Nightforce's official response was "we have no expected delivery date for ATACR MOAR's at this time".
They simply are not being built.
In the meantime, ATACR MLR's have been showing up to my dealer on a weekly basis for the past 8 weeks that I have been waiting on my MOAR - No way the MOAR is 8 times more popular than the MLR...
Long story short, my ATACR MLR ships tomorrow!
In terms of NF Scopes, they sell way more MOA Versions than Mil / Mil ... they are used a lot more by Benchrest and High Power Shooters so you see a lot more MOA versions being sold.
What you were told is simply not true. We provide very accurate lead times to our dealers. We are building MOAR and MIL-R ATACR's everyday but there are different lead times for delivery based on reticle popularity - The MOAR being several weeks longer.
In second focal plane scopes, the MOA reticle....namely our MOAR reigns the most popular. The opposite is true for the FFP scopes....MILS take the flag there.
In second focal plane scopes, the MOA reticle....namely our MOAR reigns the most popular. The opposite is true for the FFP scopes....MILS take the flag there.
It is what it is. I'm fine with my decision to change to the MIL-R. Looking forward to the added crispness, clarity, and 'pop' over my previous nxs. I thought it was pretty good glass until i looked through a Schmidt. I was never the same since...ATACR with ED glass sounds like the cure.
I too wish the ATACR was FFP. I almost bought one, but I don't like the fact that I have to think of where my reticle is.
I had an F1 and the only reason I got rid of it is because I needed more magnification and FFP. I sold it to get a S&B 5-25 and I think it's the standard for what a high end optic should be.
I played with the BEAST at SHOT and to me it seemed like it had way too much going on. The zero stops were a pain to handle, not a fan of the elevation lever. If NF came out with a ATACR in FFP I would buy one in a heartbeat. It's really the scope I wanted 3 years ago, until that happens I would get another S&B over a BEAST.
I had an F1 and the only reason I got rid of it is because I needed more magnification and FFP. I sold it to get a S&B 5-25 and I think it's the standard for what a high end optic should be.
I played with the BEAST at SHOT and to me it seemed like it had way too much going on. The zero stops were a pain to handle, not a fan of the elevation lever. If NF came out with a ATACR in FFP I would buy one in a heartbeat. It's really the scope I wanted 3 years ago, until that happens I would get another S&B over a BEAST.
I'm in a boat right now as to stepping up to higher end glass. I'm like anyone, I want to own an S&B one day but my uses just don't warrant owning a scope that cost just as much as the rifle....but I still want one. I like FFP too but I've always used the 2nd FP's if the NXS line. The only thing I didn't care for was the extremely thin NPR1 reticle. If I buy the ATACR I will switch to MIL/MIL. I've heard the reticle's are substantially thicker then the thin NXS versions, is this true because that's a plus for me.
I can pick a new ATACR up for $1990, so is the price point and non FFP worth it or should I get what I want? Also, I like the Mil-R reticle better then any of the S&B reticle's.
I love Nightforces but I really want a high end scope. I don't have a reason but I just want one. I just wonder if I get a S&B I know I'll be more then happy with it but wonder if I'll have that feeling of "eh, it's nice but man I spent too much money on this when I could have bought an ATACR and spent the rest on ammo" feeling.
Thoughts?
I can pick a new ATACR up for $1990, so is the price point and non FFP worth it or should I get what I want? Also, I like the Mil-R reticle better then any of the S&B reticle's.
I love Nightforces but I really want a high end scope. I don't have a reason but I just want one. I just wonder if I get a S&B I know I'll be more then happy with it but wonder if I'll have that feeling of "eh, it's nice but man I spent too much money on this when I could have bought an ATACR and spent the rest on ammo" feeling.
Thoughts?
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Yes the reticle is thicker. You'll be happy with it.
The ATACR is pretty close to high end, glass wise at least. Schmidts are nice, i agree, but I'll bet money that the beast gets some of their market share. Heck, for those just looking for better glass the ATACR will Probly sway buyers.
Mine gets here tomorrow. I'm exited!
The ATACR is pretty close to high end, glass wise at least. Schmidts are nice, i agree, but I'll bet money that the beast gets some of their market share. Heck, for those just looking for better glass the ATACR will Probly sway buyers.
Mine gets here tomorrow. I'm exited!
Myself and three other members of our SWAT team just attended a long range course. Our team has recently moved up to the ATACR and as police snipers we, as a group, find no issues with SFP/MOA vs FFP/MIL with the type of shooting we do. At the course five other shooters had S&B's and two others the Premier. I had the opportunity to shoot both scopes as the course had all the typical shooter comradery and swapping off of rifles for a few rounds. What I can say is that the ATACR glass is just as good as the S&B to my eyes. There may be nuances I could not detect but both were outstanding (however, the Premier had the best overall) I noticed that at 5x the NF had a wider field of view, one reason we moved from the 3-15 was the wide FOV at 5x on the ATACR. ALso at higher power it appeared wider as well. As for shooting a SFP MOA scope out to 1000, no issues for any of us. We all, S&B, Premier and NF were able to dial in and make hits from 100-1000 as long as the shooters kept up their end. I always thought I would one day get a S&B but I am more then happy with my ATACR and will some day sell off my SWFA 5-20 and Razor and go to all ATACR. I may get one in mil as I like to keep up with both systems and rally have no preference. I just do all MOA for my work rifles because that is what the team fields and if I am spotting we need to be speaking the same language. So bottom line the ATACR is in reality a high end scope and matches the S&B quite well. Is the S&B better, it may be but really not better enough for ME to spend the $1500 more. For other shooters it may be that much better, but I am just a poor police Sgt and don't have the budget for the S&B... or Premier, and am 100% satisfied with my ATACR.
Sully
Sully
I want an ATACR so bad. Just cant bring myself to sell the NSX In a perfect world the NSX would go to my 308 and the ATACR on my edge. there is of course the small matter of money. I personally don't mind SFP
HUGE field of view at 25X.
Very forgiving eyebox.
Colors super crisp.
The reticle is definitely NOT too thick.
I hate to be the one to say this in this thread but you asked. If you need a FFP scope that is high magnification get the Bender, they are the benchmark (IMO). I am and will always be a huge NF fan and am just waiting on the day for a NF high mag FFP to sell all my German scopes and go back to all NF. I really want to try the ATACR but with the chance of a FFP ATACR (even at PMII price) I just may hold off for a bit longer. I have used SFP scopes many times and have no issues with them and I actually like being able to adjust the reticle spacing with the magnification ring but don't like missing on a wind hold because I forget to check my magnification setting (I know this is a shooter error, but...). I also know the BEAST is what I am looking for but I hate paying for an option that I just will not use.
As far as contacting NF directly I agree with 00bullitt, it will only slow the works. As some know NF is a very small company as far as employee size which is a very good thing. The people of NF all are very dedicated and want to provide the best product and customer service possible and I think they do a very good job at it. However a barrage of phone calls or emails will just make the jobs of these guys harder.
