AutoTrickler V4

[spife7980]

Prometheus... not to be captain obvious or anything, but you do of course realize that sounds exactly like something a snake oil salesman who also shills grossly overpriced reloading equipment would mention like it's relevant to the topic at hand (when it isn't), right?

Pretty ironic Alanis.

So a ~$1400 powder dropper is a "cheap trickler", think we all get you man.

And you sound like someone who doesn’t realize he is right.
The Prometheus IS the standard all other powder dispensers try to live up to.

 

[1bamashooter]

I respect all the “must be user error” posts, but, respectively the V4 does *not* dispense powder as accurately and reliably as the previous generations. IMO, primarily because the prior 3 generations all allowed for fine tuning the trickler flow angle, an easy process, especially with Area 419 trickler stand and built in dial.

The V4 trickler’s pitch is fixed; to adjust the angle requires shims, which is a hack.

I’m sure a fix is coming, but there’s no question the V4 takes much more niggling to fine tune and unquestionably overthrows more frequently than any previous generation.

What do you call an overthrow and what do you consider fast? I've had all 3 and the V4 is just as fast as the V3. If I wouldn't have lost my V3 when my house burned down I probably would have just added the Ingenuity and been done with it but I didn't and got the V4 after using my shooting partners and from input from them about not having the issues with theirs that folks here have. Even running the V4 on its slowest setting is faster than any non autotrickler on the market and much more accurate. I agree about the trickler angle should be adjustable as the others have been but as far as mine is concerned it's fine like it is

 

[S3th]

When does the Prometheus patients run out? Asking for a friend

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Right now I have a V4 and a V2 w/ ingenuity trickler. The V2 + Ing Trickler is definitely faster and very accurate. Heads and shoulders better than the V4. But I can throw ball powder with the V4

You can throw ball with the IT too. Just have to separately order the right disk. It works ridiculously well too. I don't know why that wasn't included honestly but with how awesome the IP is, I'm super happy with it. Also, Paul is ridiculously fast with CS and even called me on Sunday afternoon after emailing. I mean, there is no way of being better than that

 

[CK1.0]

The Prometheus may be the best f'ing thing in the whole wide world, but even in this expensive-ass sport, where burning $50-500 every range trip means nothing to many of us, too expensive and exclusive to even really be in the conversation anymore.

To most, the original Auto-Trickler, let alone the V3 and/or V4, made the Prometheus more or less irrelevant. $5500, and the communist price-control of the secondary market ala Ferrari, nope.

The AT V3/V4 is/are still the king of the hill... but things have been getting more intereting lately as there is more competition.

That said, the Hide is the only place one will call you one of the poor's because you're checking out fancy powder droppers that only cost ~$1400-1500...

 

[1bamashooter]

The Prometheus may be the best f'ing thing in the whole wide world, but even in this expensive-ass sport, where burning $50-500 every range trip means nothing to many of us, too expensive and exclusive to even really be in the conversation anymore.

To most, the original Auto-Trickler, let alone the V3 and/or V4, made the Prometheus more or less irrelevant. $5500, and the communist price-control of the secondary market ala Ferrari, nope.

The AT V3/V4 is/are still the king of the hill... but things have been getting more intereting lately as there is more competition.

That said, the Hide is the only place one will call you one of the poor's because you're checking out fancy powder droppers that only cost ~$1400-1500...

And that's sad because most shooters here don't need benchrest or f class accuracy.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Ya, but the plastic housing of the Lee powder measure on the V2 will grind up tight with ball powder. That's why I wish Adam would still sell the V3 housing.

Oh I didn't follow that part. My bad, carry on.

 

[secondofangle2]

Fair enough. Though I still wouldn't call it a flaw.

As to there being several "well known national champions" voicing concerns...I guess it depends on if you value their opinions. Being a national champion does not necessarily mean you're an expert on everything gun related. Ultimately, it's their opinion.

Now, I'll ask this question. Are we shooting BR on this site? No. So all this hub-bub strikes me more as, shitting on a vendor's thread, so as to pump up visibility of another vendor's solution.

I think there has been enough of both sides arguing in this thread to cover all the concerns some may have. At this point it's just bordering on bashing. Especially since, many here have had ZERO issues with the V4.

Over promise under deliver is what I think people are upset about. Something g like “to the kernel “ or similar.

 

[MarinePMI]

Over promise under deliver is what I think people are upset about. Something g like “to the kernel “ or similar.

Oh, I get it. But one can't help but think "well, it depends on the size of the kernel" would have some impact on performance, and that anyone with common sense would understand that. <shrug> Some just repeat the phrase, and don't really think critically about it. Same could be said for a lot of things today I suppose....

 

[MarinePMI]

What do you call an overthrow and what do you consider fast? I've had all 3 and the V4 is just as fast as the V3. If I wouldn't have lost my V3 when my house burned down I probably would have just added the Ingenuity and been done with it but I didn't and got the V4 after using my shooting partners and from input from them about not having the issues with theirs that folks here have. Even running the V4 on its slowest setting is faster than any non autotrickler on the market and much more accurate. I agree about the trickler angle should be adjustable as the others have been but as far as mine is concerned it's fine like it is

Hmmm...I seem to recall that the prototype was adjustable (threaded screw in the rear allowed it to be adjusted).

 

[Threadcutter308]

This might sound harsh, but Area419 basically creating a small ecosystem of products to sell based off the AT's shortcomings should have been a heads up... and that was literally years ago.

Yep, it was bound to happen. It did happen. And essentially, Adam was in no position to stop it and was powerless to do anything about it.

That's the nature of business. For better or worse.

I have a V3 (with AT's trickler) and am very happy with it. It occasionally overthrows a charge of 4350 by 1 kernel. Out of 1750 kernels per charge, I don't have to think for very long to conclude that it's inconsequential. Would I like to have each and every charge "exact" ? Of course. But, I had to let go of the idea that the (tiny) variations that I was seeing are a problem. Having said the above, I suppose I'd like to have the IP trickler, but not at $350.00. And, not when I'm having so few issues with the AT V3 trickler and the variations are so small.

Adam is a great guy and has great products. I am confident that he will get this ironed out and taken care of. Knowing what I know now, if I had no powder dispensing system, would I buy the AT V4, (an Area 419 trickler ?) or a Chargemaster ? Hands down it would be the V4. Am I ready to sell my V3 for a V4 ? No, not yet.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

More likely a "user flaw"...

I've had a V4 since they were first released. Zero issues.

So, to be honest, your statements are the ones that sound like they're wrapped in bullshit. Which is not surprising considering your history here.

If you wanna pimp the other solution, go to that thread.

Yes we are all idiots. People who ran multiple V2 and V3 for years just can't figure it out. National level shooters are all dumb.

They haven't tried things like shimming, custom nozzles, custom enclosures or anything else.

Some of the people I am talking about are posting in this thread, with the same issues.

You have one ATV and because you don't have any issues (who knows how often you use it, what powders, ect) that means all the other people who have issues are full of shit? That is a sample size of one with questionable use. Sorry, That doesn't mean much of anything.

Its a KNOWN issue at this point. To say otherwise is pure ignorance.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Fair enough. Though I still wouldn't call it a flaw.

As to there being several "well known national champions" voicing concerns...I guess it depends on if you value their opinions. Being a national champion does not necessarily mean you're an expert on everything gun related. Ultimately, it's their opinion.

Now, I'll ask this question. Are we shooting BR on this site? No. So all this hub-bub strikes me more as, shitting on a vendor's thread, so as to pump up visibility of another vendor's solution.

I think there has been enough of both sides arguing in this thread to cover all the concerns some may have. At this point it's just bordering on bashing. Especially since, many here have had ZERO issues with the V4.

Yes the most Famous F class shooter on the internet who just won the National Championship, Doesn't know anything about metering powder. The same guy tens of thousands of people tune in to learn his reloading and shooting advice.

Seriously?

The issues are the same if you are loading for Benchrest, Fclass, PRS or one of the Sniper Challenges. Speed, accuracy and reliability are why people are paying over $1K for a scale/thrower combo. Otherwise they would still be running 3 or 4 charge masters for the same price.

What is an acceptable failure rate foor a premium product? 1%, 5% 10%, 20%? If you happen to be in the 80% who do not have an issue, it does not diminish or change the fact the other 20 got fucked and want it made right.

There are more competing products coming out and if Adam doesn't get his shit together soon, he is going to lose his market dominance with a quickness. Guys spending 10-20-30K a year shooting aren't going to dick around with something that is inferior.

How is it bashing when We are the ones having issues, are asking for solutions and bringing the issues to light for those that may be contemplating a purchase?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

People not having problems must be made up too

Again, whats the acceptable failure rate?

By your logic since you don't have an issue , that means the product is 100%.

Show me where you took statistics so we can ask them for a refund.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Prometheus... not to be captain obvious or anything, but you do of course realize that sounds exactly like something a snake oil salesman who also shills grossly overpriced reloading equipment would mention like it's relevant to the topic at hand (when it isn't), right?

Pretty ironic Alanis.

So a ~$1400 powder dropper is a "cheap trickler", think we all get you man.

No you have to spend $5K+ on a proper trickler.

Just like you need to spend $600 on a primer seater to dial in seating depth (more if you want a fancy dial), despite the fact Brain Litz already tested it and said it had no effect.

People like pimping their shit to those who don't know any better.

 

[Conqueror]

How are you guys deciding what disks to use with the IP trickler for powders not on his list? Let’s say I wanted to use it with some ball powder like H335. Just pick a disc with smallest slots and do trial and error? Is there some kind of established criteria for which disks are likely to work based on powder type and kernel size? Etc. At $27 each I’d rather not have to buy like all ten or twelve of them.

 

[secondofangle2]

I’d prefer to not have any kit that requires me to change shut out every time I change what I’m reloading. That’s the flaw of the Giraud annealer. Not fun reconfiguring a piece of kit for each caliber

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I’d prefer to not have any kit that requires me to change shut out every time I change what I’m reloading. That’s the flaw of the Giraud annealer. Not fun reconfiguring a piece of kit for each caliber

You need an AMP my friend. 30 seconds to change the pilot and the aztec setting and you are in business. Its actually faster by hand then the 8-10 cycle of the hopper style annealers. It only takes about 2-3 seconds for it to anneal, and with 2 brass holders, you always have one qued up to go in as soon as you pull the other out to dump. It was a tough pill to swallow at $1600, but the speed and exact annealing temps every time is well worth it IMO. These are pieces of equipment that should last decades.

 

[Haney]

Yes the most Famous F class shooter on the internet who just won the National Championship, Doesn't know anything about metering powder. The same guy tens of thousands of people tune in to learn his reloading and shooting advice.

Seriously?

The issues are the same if you are loading for Benchrest, Fclass, PRS or one of the Sniper Challenges. Speed, accuracy and reliability are why people are paying over $1K for a scale/thrower combo. Otherwise they would still be running 3 or 4 charge masters for the same price.

What is an acceptable failure rate foor a premium product? 1%, 5% 10%, 20%? If you happen to be in the 80% who do not have an issue, it does not diminish or change the fact the other 20 got fucked and want it made right.

There are more competing products coming out and if Adam doesn't get his shit together soon, he is going to lose his market dominance with a quickness. Guys spending 10-20-30K a year shooting aren't going to dick around with something that is inferior.

How is it bashing when We are the ones having issues, are asking for solutions and bringing the issues to light for those that may be contemplating a purchase?

Who is this f-class shooter you worship ? Funny shit right there, fanboy of a f-class shooter ? Low self-esteem issue ?

 

[MarinePMI]

Yes the most Famous F class shooter on the internet who just won the National Championship, Doesn't know anything about metering powder. The same guy tens of thousands of people tune in to learn his reloading and shooting advice.

Seriously?

The issues are the same if you are loading for Benchrest, Fclass, PRS or one of the Sniper Challenges. Speed, accuracy and reliability are why people are paying over $1K for a scale/thrower combo. Otherwise they would still be running 3 or 4 charge masters for the same price.

What is an acceptable failure rate foor a premium product? 1%, 5% 10%, 20%? If you happen to be in the 80% who do not have an issue, it does not diminish or change the fact the other 20 got fucked and want it made right.

There are more competing products coming out and if Adam doesn't get his shit together soon, he is going to lose his market dominance with a quickness. Guys spending 10-20-30K a year shooting aren't going to dick around with something that is inferior.

How is it bashing when We are the ones having issues, are asking for solutions and bringing the issues to light for those that may be contemplating a purchase?

<Sigh> What a miserable life you must have, being angry at the world all the time.

Though I should rephrase my use of "bashing", to just your continual bitching. About a product most have no problems with. And when most are having no issues, that kinda kinda points to the user being the issue.

But whatever, enjoy your bitching, because most here see it for what it is; bitching and whining.

Have a nice day.

 

[secondofangle2]

You need an AMP my friend. 30 seconds to change the pilot and the aztec setting and you are in business. Its actually faster by hand then the 8-10 cycle of the hopper style annealers. It only takes about 2-3 seconds for it to anneal, and with 2 brass holders, you always have one qued up to go in as soon as you pull the other out to dump. It was a tough pill to swallow at $1600, but the speed and exact annealing temps every time is well worth it IMO. These are pieces of equipment that should last decades.

I have an AMP as well as the Giraud. Former for big stuff, latter for bulk 223 & 308, best of both worlds.

 

[SPK512]

Now look at H4350. The large tube flow went through the roof in order to get decent flow from the small tube.
View attachment 7951439
Here is where I landed Setting wise to work across a pretty broad range of powders (fine ball - N555). These settings are for my machine only because I made a new small tube that is Acme threaded.
The split is much better now. I have plans to make the small tube elevation adjustable but it’s on the back burner till Thanksgiving.

View attachment 7951449

@357Max
Thank you for sharing so much info. I have the plastic tip, but was able to dial in really well based on the second set of settings above. After adjusting the high speed time a little lower to 1.80 and the low speed time to 2.60, I ran 50 charges of 4350 and all landed within a kernel. I would guess they averaged around 12 seconds which is plenty fast for me as long as they are accurate.
Calibrated flow rates were:
Large 34.3 GN/s
Small 0.21 GN/s

Though it may take a little tinkering to fin the settings that work for you, this thing kicks ass compared to anything I have used before it.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Why am I limited to just the settings in the photo I've posted below? I'm running the app on an iPhone.

 

[secondofangle2]

I think you have to press and hold to get advanced settings

 

[NiteQwill]

Why am I limited to just the settings in the photo I've posted below? I'm running the app on an iPhone.

View attachment 7980735

Hold the CLOSE button

 

[Hoser]

I got my second V4 yesterday.

Got it set up this morning and did some testing with random powders.

Spot on in 10-12 seconds with everything from Benchmark to 4350.

I will play with pistol powders and maybe some big stuff like 20N29 later next week.

 

[Andrew863]

Same here got my first V4 a week ago and I'm happy with it. I love the fact that it is all on top of the scale and off the bench. Super easy to empty also. I have been playing with the settings alot but I can easily get it to average 10sec and +- .02. People had me scared to get it but I'm glad I did.

 

[Stugots]

I received my V4 about a week a-go. Haven't done any more with it other that getting it setup on my A&D 120i.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

How are you guys deciding what disks to use with the IP trickler for powders not on his list? Let’s say I wanted to use it with some ball powder like H335. Just pick a disc with smallest slots and do trial and error? Is there some kind of established criteria for which disks are likely to work based on powder type and kernel size? Etc. At $27 each I’d rather not have to buy like all ten or twelve of them.

There's a disk for ball powders. Works Great! #705

 

[Andrew863]

I received my V4 about a week a-go. Haven't done any more with it other that getting it setup on my A&D 120i

Just play with it and learn what the settings do. At first I thought I had to have a bunch of tilt, but now just with playing with settings I have it level and getting great proformance. Now all I can speak on is stick powder like H4350 and varget. But I think if people would learn what the settings do and have a little patience this thread would be alot better and have much less crying that the v4 don't work. No I don't think it will ever be as fast as the IP but it will most definitely do what it claims to do and that is +- .02 in 10 sec.

 

[Stugots]

Just play with it and learn what the settings do. At first I thought I had to have a bunch of tilt, but now just with playing with settings I have it level getting great proformance. Now all I can speak on is stick powder like H4350 and varget. But I think if people would learn what the settings do and have a little patience this thread would be alot better and have much less crying that the v4 don't work. No I don't think it will ever be as fast as the IP but it will most definitely do what it claims to do and that is +- .02 in 10 sec.

99% of my reloading using this setup will be for my 300 WSM F-Class build and my 6.5 Needmoor PRS build. The other reloading I do is for 3 - AR15 I built (.223) 1 - .204 Ruger (rifles are used for P.Dogs) and a 6.5 Grendel with an N-Vision HALO mounted on it.

 

[dttheliman]

There's a disk for ball powders. Works Great! #705

He has zero additional disks on his website, let us know how you got it ?

 

[ICU22250]

He has zero additional disks on his website, let us know how you got it ?

I emailed him directly and asked for it, he charged something like close to 30 bucks and shipped it promptly..

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

He has zero additional disks on his website, let us know how you got it ?

I actually emailed him. He said he was putting them up there but I guess he hasn't. He doesn't think many people use ball powder for some reason. That's why he said he didn't include it. So yeah, email him and he will get you one. He's awesome to deal with and will probably email you back like tonight!

 

[Conqueror]

Used my IP trickler on my V3 for the first time today and very impressed with its function. Reasonably fast and extremely accurate with Varget, definitely visibly down to the individual kernel.

 

[Hoser]

I got my second V4 yesterday.

Got it set up this morning and did some testing with random powders.

Spot on in 10-12 seconds with everything from Benchmark to 4350.

I will play with pistol powders and maybe some big stuff like 20N29 later next week.

Universal Clays. 8.5 gns in under 10 seconds. No over throws.

Trailboss. 4.2 gns in 10-12 seconds. No over throws.

231. 4.0 gns in under 10 seconds. No over throws.

 

[StaveyIL]

My V4 works great. I would sell it if it required an additional trickler.

 

[ICU22250]

My V4 works great. I would sell it if it required an additional trickler.

This sounds a bit like a stab at the Ingenuity Precision trickler..

 

[StaveyIL]

Not at all. For me the draw of the V4 was its simplicity . No extra trickler ,easy powder changes, and easy +\- changes on the fly . For those with a V2 or V3 a trickler is a necessity,so may as well use best(ingenuity).

 

[ICU22250]

Not at all. For me the draw of the V4 was its simplicity . No extra trickler ,easy powder changes, and easy +\- changes on the fly . For those with a V2 or V3 a trickler is a necessity,so may as well use best(ingenuity).

I have an ingenuity precision, and it is indeed a game changer for V2 and V3 owners..

 

[kthomas]

This sounds a bit like a stab at the Ingenuity Precision trickler..

I don't think that's a stab, I would have the same sentiments. I wouldn't want to spend the money on a V4 just to have to spend another $300+ on an aftermarket trickler. Rather than spending that kind of money to piecemeal together a solution, one in which one product company clearly doesn't support the other, I would be looking at other solutions.

And this also isn't a stab at IP. I actually just bought an IP trickler for my V2. The OEM trickler on the V2 sucks, it gives me a lot of headaches. But I figure a V3 board + an IP trickler is a modest investment that would make my system competitive with most current ones.

However if I have to continue to upgrade my system throughout the years, at some point I'll come to the conclusion that I should've just spent my money on a Prometheus.

 

[ICU22250]

I don't think that's a stab, I would have the same sentiments. I wouldn't want to spend the money on a V4 just to have to spend another $300+ on an aftermarket trickler. Rather than spending that kind of money to piecemeal together a solution, one in which one product company clearly doesn't support the other, I would be looking at other solutions.

And this also isn't a stab at IP. I actually just bought an IP trickler for my V2. The OEM trickler on the V2 sucks, it gives me a lot of headaches. But I figure a V3 board + an IP trickler is a modest investment that would make my system competitive with most current ones.

However if I have to continue to upgrade my system throughout the years, at some point I'll come to the conclusion that I should've just spent my money on a Prometheus.

I honestly think that a V3 or V2 with the IP on it, other than something messing up, why would you ever need anything else unless you wanna powder throw that actually fills the brass.. Im happy where I'm at for a good while, my next upgrade will have to be a large step forward. I have thought about getting a ST just to have a second setup and the lack of being able to get my hands on another V3 powder throw..

 

[kthomas]

I honestly think that a V3 or V2 with the IP on it, other than something messing up, why would you ever need anything else unless you wanna powder throw that actually fills the brass.. Im happy where I'm at for a good while, my next upgrade will have to be a large step forward. I have thought about getting a ST just to have a second setup and the lack of being able to get my hands on another V3 powder throw..

As long as the system works and there's reliability and longevity, I'll be happy.

An IP trickler+ V3 board seems like a great compliment to the V2 system. I just hope it lasts and is without issues.

 

[Conqueror]

Agree. It’s hard for me to imagine that any of the current newest systems out there are sufficiently better than my V3/IP combo that I will need to upgrade for the sake of performance. Maybe for speed or convenience or because something comes along that fills the brass for me, but not for the quality of my reloads.

 

[rmfield]

Why has Adam's V4 thread become the place to knock the V4 and promote the IT? I'm not knocking the IT, especially as an upgrade to the V32/V3, but why here?

 

[Conqueror]

Because when you announce a new product it invites discussion of whether that product is any good relative to the old product?

 

[Obone]

I really appreciate all of the discussions. I have nothing and have been waiting since May. It makes all of the other options look better.

 

[Andrew863]

If anyone is interested I have some settings that has worked very very well for me for H4350 and powders like it. Very fast between 8-10 sec. Maybe 1 out of 100 large over throws and the random .02 .04 over. Usually faster to dump it rather then pick out a kernel. I have the scale level as I have found I don't need tilt like I thought it did at first and keeping it level and not moving the scale has helped me stay consistent. I think one of the issues people aren't considering that, any time you move the scale u have changed the tilt slightly. I have it set where I don't have to move anything to empty the scale and just tilt the v4 forward to prime or empty the last few kernels out of the small tube.

 

[SPK512]

If anyone is interested I have some settings that has worked very very well for me for H4350 and powders like it. Very fast between 8-10 sec. Maybe 1 out of 100 large over throws and the random .02 .04 over. Usually faster to dump it rather then pick out a kernel. I have the scale level as I have found I don't need tilt like I thought it did at first and keeping it level and not moving the scale has helped me stay consistent. I think one of the issues people aren't considering that, any time you move the scale u have changed the tilt slightly. I have it set where I don't have to move anything to empty the scale and just tilt the v4 forward to prime or empty the last few kernels out of the small tube.

When you do overthrow, is it from the large tube?

8-10 seconds is faster than mine, but, I actually have not had a large over throw, only the .02 or 1 kernel over.
I also have my scale level and the get the small tube feed slow enough, I have the trickler leaning back slightly.
H4350 is the only thing I have run through it so far, but from what I gather, it will be one off the hardest to dial in.

My Settings.

 

[Taylorbok]

If anyone is interested I have some settings that has worked very very well for me for H4350 and powders like it. Very fast between 8-10 sec. Maybe 1 out of 100 large over throws and the random .02 .04 over. Usually faster to dump it rather then pick out a kernel. I have the scale level as I have found I don't need tilt like I thought it did at first and keeping it level and not moving the scale has helped me stay consistent. I think one of the issues people aren't considering that, any time you move the scale u have changed the tilt slightly. I have it set where I don't have to move anything to empty the scale and just tilt the v4 forward to prime or empty the last few kernels out of the small tube.

Thanks for sharing and you hold the close button in the setting screen to go advanced?