Barrel Life Tabulation - Please post if you have first-hand information

[bohem]

I'm trying to find folks that have actually burned out a barrel and documented the barrel life for various competition calibers. I know that some of us have burned out several and have really good data on them. There is a lot of parroting that goes on and new users thinking about a build constantly ask for expectations and some tabulated data on various popular calibers would be a good thing for this place.


From a personal standpoint, I'd like to hear what 6mm Creedmoor guys are getting from the 105's and 115's with barrel life.

If you haven't burned out a barrel and you're just going to post "expectations" please keep them to yourself. There are lots of posted "expectations" and not a lot of well documented first-hand experience. This churn causes a lot of confusion amongst new users for a caliber and the goal is to disseminate information, not supposition.


Here's comments that I have on the 6.5 Creedmoor & 243 Win, let's keep it to this kind of format

6mm Creedmoor

For the 243 I have personally seen well documented round count books for:

243 Winchester
#1 - 1,679 rd, 115 DTAC @ 3,080fps
#2 - 1,862 rd, 115 DTAC @ 3,045fps (still shoots OK up close, fliers past 800yd)
#3 - 2,094 rd, 115 DTAC @ 3105fps, completely fried 3MOA shotgun
#4 - 1,721 rd, 1k 105 Amax (3220fps) & balance 115 DTAC (3025fps), pretty fried

6.5 Creedmoor
"Bohem" #1 - 4,59x (4600) rounds, 140 Amax over 41.9gr H4350, wavering zero location, throwing fliers past 750yd, velocity down 80fps in the previous 275rd
"Bohem" #2 - 3,494 rounds, 140 Amax over 43.5gr H4350 (still shooting OK, but throwing fliers at distance and velocity dropped 120fps in the previous 400rds)
"Bohem" #3 - ??? (working on it, ~600rd down the pipe)
MikeBooshay - A friends shooting school has a couple 6.5 Creedmoors, they get replaced around 4k rounds, all 140 AMAX

260 Rem

6.5 SAUM

7-08

7mm Creedmoor

284 Winchester

7 WSM & 7/300 WSM & 7 SAUM
19Scout77 - 7WSM 1,575rd 162 amaxs at 2955 fps...load uses 67 gns of 4831sc. accuracy went south quickly. Started with unexplained flyer, then groups opened up considerably.
Bohem - 7/300WSM - 1,683rd (800 180 Berger balance 162 Amax & 175 SMK) Retumbo, still shooting OK but dying.


300 Win Mag
MikeBooshay #1 - Browning A-bolt Factory, 1,000rd 180gr factory ammo. Went from 1MOA to 3+MOA quickly
MikeBooshay #2 - TRG42 Factory, mainly handloads over H1000, 190 SMK's. 2700 rounds, accuracy failed quickly





I will update the top post as the thread goes forward so that the data is easy to keep clean/concise.

I think it would be useful as a sticky, but we'll see how this goes forward.

 

[19Scout77]

7 wsm, 22.5" barrel, 162 amaxs at 2955 fps...load uses 67 gns of 4831sc.

1575 rds.

At 1575, accuracy went south quickly. Started with unexplained flyer, then groups opened up considerably.

 

[MikeeBooshay]

Bohem,

300 Win Mag, all factory 180 grain ammo thru a Browning A-bolt, around 1000 rounds. When it went bad, it did so quickly, going from a 1 MOA rifle to a 3+ MOA rifle.

300 Win Mag, TRG 42, mainly handloads over H1000, 190 SMK's. 2700 rounds, same deal as the A-bolt. About half these were suppressed rounds, not saying that had anything to do with it, I think the barrel is better in the TRG.

A friends shooting school has a couple 6.5 Creedmoors, they get replaced around 4k rounds, all 140 AMAX.

 

[bohem]

Thanks guys, I added the information above.

 

[jbell]

Do you only want for the calibers you have listed above?

 

[MrRightWing]

This is gonna be interesting. Tag.

 

[bohem]

Other calibers would be fine, those are just ones that seem to be pretty common around here. If you have data on it, send it over and I'll keep adding to the post.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I like this, great Idea bohem. Perhaps you could specify a specific criteria of a "bad barrel" such as an MOA or flyer count of some kind. so we all have a judgement point.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

I killed a 6mm Ackley in 1100 rounds. Shot mostly 95 grain SMKs around 3400-3500 fps.

 

[sniperdude]

good info here...tag

 

[RTK]

My brother toasted the throat in my 22-250AI with a meer 25 rounds.

 

[pinzmann]

6.5x47 Lapua 3850rds used 123gr Lapua with 37.2gr of R15. Had .085 throat erosion. Bartlein barrel 1/8 twist. First noticed flyers at about 3400 rds, then chased the lands. At 3800rds I was getting a little under 1MOA. Up to that point it was a 3/8-1/2 gun. Pics of cutaway chamber in link below.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/sniper-hide-gunsmithing/209039-cut-away-view-chamber.html

 

[jbell]

I killed a 6.5X284 with 49.6g H4350 pushing a 142 SMK around 2980ish. It was a Hart barrel that was very accurate. I found after 800 rounds the copper started stripping bad and I had to use a mechanical cleaner (JB). Then around 1100 rounds the groups were still good but with a flyer now and then. At 1280-1300 I lost all confidence in the barrel. I feel like I got good life out of that barrel.

I also killed a factory 26" TRG 22 (308 win) in 4600 rounds. It was a sub half gun its whole life until it hit 4400-4500 rounds then jumped to a just under 3/4 gun. I mainly shot 175 SMK @ 2580-2600 (depending on powder). The barrel showed no throat erosion up to 3000 rounds then when it started to open up at 4400-4500 I checked again and it was +0.100. I could not get the lands to engrave on the bullet it was just a smear at that point when I was checking the jam length. Too bad that was a good one.

I kept both barrels clean after they were shot (for the most part, but especially if they sat.) Cleaners were Lucas guides, Dewey rods, Boretech jags and brushes, Butches or TM or Boretech Eliminator for solvents. The 6.5 was the only one to see JB.

Other than that I have never kept a rifle long enough to kill one (lots and lots of other 308s). FWIW I also has a 1991 build factory Remington PSS that I traded at 6500+ rounds that would still hold 1/2moa out to 400 yards (longest range I had at the time).

 

[Ring]

had a savage with a shillen 260 barrel nitrided... sold it at 1600 rounds, still shot like new, mostly 140amax 42.3 H4350, also, 123amax

 

[Frank Green]

What I would like to see and it's not really talked about or mentioned......you want to see barrel life and round count.....but you don't say what the accuracy requirement is?

List a standard to go with like:

10 round groups and 1/2 moa accuracy or 5 round groups and 1/2 moa accuracy.

Also list for the above accuracy no cleaning for a min. of say 60 rounds in between accuracy testing for the barrel life tests.

I think you would see a big difference in what the barrel life is! For example a guy shooting a 7 short mag on a F-Class gun and his accuracy requirement is 1/2 moa or less lets say loser to 1/3 moa. Instead of someone saying they got 1500 rounds out of it your looking at a round count of only 600-800 rounds.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Frank Green]

Also think about listing the type of powder being used as well as the types of bullets not to mention how the barrel was manufactured. Some powders are harder on barrels than others and will shorten barrel life. Also shooting bullets with a longer bearing surface will shorten barrel life and I won't even get into the barrel manufacturing, types of steel and even the environment the gun is being shot in and how it's being cleaned.

You have to add some of these other variables to the thread I believe if you want to get really good data.

later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[bohem]

Those are very good points, Frank and I wasn't sure how to address it.

FOr example with my 6.5's above

Everything was shot with H4350, #1 button rifled Shilen CM barrel. #2 was a button rifled Hart SS. #3 is a cut rifled Hawk Hill.

First barrel was a 0.1's for 3000rd, 0.2's til 4000rd and then in 400-500rd it went from 0.2's/0.3's to 3/4"
Second was in the 0.2's for the first 3000rd and then in the 0.3's however it was throwing shots and I had 3 big matches coming down the pike in the next 6 weeks where I would be really pissed if the barrel died there... so I pulled it at a 1/2 MOA level.



Overall, I'd say something to the effect that if the barrel shoots 0.x MOA regularly and then the wear point is 2-2.5x's that original number it's time to pull it.

 

[KevinU]

284,

27" Bartlein, 54.6/4831sc/175smk/2840fps, 2800rds

6SLR

26" Bartlein, 42/4831sc/Dtac/2970, 970rds

Shot both rifle mostly in steel matches. One of the matches 16rd string in about 10-12 minutes.

 

[gebhardt02]

.300 WM, rock creek barrel, 190 SMK over RE-22, somewhere around 1200 rounds groups opened up to over 1 MOA.

.300 WM, Bartlein barrel, 190 SMK over H4831sc, also around 1200 rounds the groups opened up to over 1 MOA.

.243 Win, Brux barrel, 105 AMAX over 4831sc, 1400+ rounds the groups were around 1 MOA with uncalled fliers and velocity had dropped off 140 fps.

Will have data on two other .243 Win with Bartlein barrels in the very near future.

Geb

 

[bohem]

I've received a bunch of PM's and emails from people I know that liked this idea for a thread, so perhaps we can get a sticky here.

Also, would a Google spreadsheet or Google Docs form where folks can enter the data themselves and I can handle it for easy presentation be warranted?

 

[flounderv2]

Bohem and I talked about this earlier this morning. We had some ideas of additional components to add as well. I think Ill go ahead and build a webpage where everyone can just go and enter the relevant information and we can have the DB run itself. Much easier than trying to manage a google doc xls.

 

[Unknown]

300 Win mag M40A1 from McMillan shop

1. Barrel #1 lasted about 850 rounds before accuracy went. I had it replaced. In all fairness, I shot this barrel really hard, and hot, because I used it in a number of very early practical rifle events where stage round counts were often 15-20 rounds each with 4 stages per match. This was the original barrel from the McMillan Shop, and it was a Schneider 1-10 polygon barrel.

2. Barrel #2 on this rifle was a Schneider 1-10 polygon bore. It lasted close to 950 rounds before it went. I took this barrel off, and sold it to a friend. He took it to a gunsmith, had it bore scoped, and the gunsmith said only the first .25 inches was gone, so he took .5 inch off the chamber, and .25 off the muzzle. My buddy is still shooting it, and says it is a fabulous shooter.

3. Barrel #3 on the same rifle is an Obermeyer 1-11 5R barrel. I put 950 rounds through it, and it was still shooting really good, but rather than wait until it went bad, I had it set back by taking .5 inch off the muzzle, and 1.5 inches off the chamber. The barrel is now 24 inches from the recoil lug to the crown, and it has about 825 rounds through it since the set back. It still shoots beautifully.

I have no complaints with the Schneider barrels as they all shot great. It seemed easy to get good groups with minimal load development. Gale McMillan told me that the load to use should be 70 grains of IMR4250, Federal 215M primer, 190 Sierra match king bullet. The bolt was sticky, so when I went to the Obermeyer barrel, I reduced the load to 68.5 grains of IMR4250, with the same components. Velocity was 2960 in cooler weather. I don't shoot the rifle in hotter weather as the bolt lift has a little "snick" at the end of it's lift indicating stickiness. In hotter weather, velocity goes to over 3000 FPS, and I just don't like the "snick" at the end of the bolt lift. So it is my "fall and winter" rifle for long range shooting.

I hope this info is helpful.

 

[Eastbay]

Anyone have any experience with a 300 RUM with a Schneider?

 

[Swift]

Finally quit on the 260(in sig) at 2,719. It was a Brux 8.5tw, ran 142s at 2880 loaded out to 2.890". H4350, mild load, no pressure signs. I pay no attention to barrel temperature or time between shots. When I'm ready to squeeze off the next one, that's what I do. After each session it got a pass with a bore snake and a thorough cleaning every 6-700.

 

[00boraslow]

Tag for info

 

[my human host]

Bump for potential.

 

[gebhardt02]

Any more info on the 6 Creedmore or 6.5 Creedmore? I've heard as low as 800 rounds and as high as 2200. I'm guessing most are somewhere in between?

Geb

 

[KUSA]

I would like to see something on a 6.5 Grendel.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Fapatalk 2.

 

[bohem]

KUSA, I agree, I'd like to as well. I've heard rumors that it is similar to a 308 but I have not seen anything substantiating that yet.

For all those that pariticipated so far, thank you. I am keeping a spreadsheet and Flounder's going to post it up into a website that can be sorted and additions made to the data. When? Not sure, but we're going that way.

 

[MrSwede]

6.5x55: 3500 130grs Norma Golden Target at 2600fps and 300 140grs Hornady Amax at 2600fps.
Random POI shift and throwing fliers.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

this wont yeild any answers unless you know the load and pressure info


One 243 Win shooting 42.5 grains H4350 and 115 Dtacs went in 1700 rounds

Same rifle New barrel 46 grains RL25, 115 Dtacs went 3000+


Current 6mm Creedmoor shooting 105 Hybrids with 42 grains H4350 is at 3100+ still shoots great lost 50 FPS vel

 

[flounderv2]

this wont yeild any answers unless you know the load and pressure info


One 243 Win shooting 42.5 grains H4350 and 115 Dtacs went in 1700 rounds

Same rifle New barrel 46 grains RL25, 115 Dtacs went 3000+


Current 6mm Creedmoor shooting 105 Hybrids with 42 grains H4350 is at 3100+ still shoots great lost 50 FPS vel

George, Those were some of the additional metrics I was looking to capture well. Everything from load data, velocity, seating depths, to barrel maker, lentgh, twist rate, etc. Once its ready, I think it would also make a very good load data repository where an individual could filter for whatever data they wanted. Im still working on setting everything up.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

This is a very interesting quest, and I daresay it can get bogged down with all of the variables. At the same time, it is the variables that aid in quantifying the outcome.

Keep it up, as you are on to something here. It will be as great as the input submitted. Thanks for this.

 

[steve123]

6x47L

1st barrel - Broughton 5C, 1-8, 105's and 115's pushed hard with H-4350 and N160, 2300 and something rounds. It went from keeping them on a 1" paste'r to 2 moa the next day. Odd???

2cnd barrel - Schneider 5P, 1-7.5, 115's with N160 and R-17, went bad at 1500 rounds.

3rd barrel Schneider 5P, 1-7.5, "MELONITED", 42 grains H-4831, 115 DTACS, bullets started SMOKING with 3000 rounds through it. Surprisingly the barrel grouped well at 100Y still but a occasional bullet would err at distance. I won our local match with it at 3200 rounds, then pulled it.

 

[Bud6mm]

This is a great thread. I hope the information keeps coming. I am trying to figure out a good all around cartridge for my wife's rifle.

 

[6.5BR]

How will she use it Bud?

 

[A10XRIFLE]

I would not worry about barrel life so much. If you shoot a lot. The ammo is a lot more expensive than $500 barrel jobs every 2000-2500 rounds. We build thousands of rifles a year. Re-Barrel very few a year. 10-20. People don't shoot as much as they think they do!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[jbailey]

260 Remington at ~2000 rds.

Was pushing a 130gr JLK hard w/ H4350 at ~3000fps (28" Brux barrel, 8 twist). Dead in WV at the Alleghany Sniper Challenge when the load suddenly wouldn't hold 1minute at 100 (that stress group stage was a disaster as result). Trying to perform CPR w/ a tangent ogive bullet.

This is a good buddy of mine's rifle.

 

[peaceatwar]

I would not worry about barrel life so much. If you shoot a lot. The ammo is a lot more expensive than $500 barrel jobs every 2000-2500 rounds. We build thousands of rifles a year. Re-Barrel very few a year. 10-20. People don't shoot as much as they think they do!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

Its probably safe to safe to say people who are chiming in are the ones who actually shoot a barrel out. You make a great point though. To a lot of guys this information is purely theoretical. I imagine needing barrel replacements every-other-year unless my shooting really picks up.

Bohem,

Great idea here! The balance between cost and perfromance is a decision tons of shooters make! Just to add in some additional analytic I will throw our some numbers I made for a friend recently making a caliber swap on his AI-AX.

A new barrel of any caliber on an AI-AX is going to cost around $720. So when deciding on a new barrel you have to factor in a few things.

Cost of: Primer+Powder+Bullet = Cost Per Round (No Brass) + Cost of barrel ($720) = Cost (No Brass) to shoot X number of rounds.

For the purposes of this study we said this shooter would shoot 2500 rounds in a year. Again brass was not factored in at this time. The added complexity of determining the average life of brass with a given load is another great data point to collect.

.308 = Primer (.05) + Powder (.16) + Bullet (.43) = .64 a round Cost to shoot 2500 rounds = $1600
.243 = Primer (.05) + Powder (.11) + Bullet (.32) = .48 a round Cost to shoot 2500 rounds = $1200
.260 = Primer (.05) + Powder (.15) + Bullet (.38) = .58 a round Cost to shoot 2500 rounds = $1145

To shoot 2500 rounds you would use:

.308 .5 Barrels (Assuming 5,000 rounds of match grade barrel life)
.243 1.25 Barrels (2,000 Life)
.260 1 Barrel (2,500 Life)

So the cost with the barrel to shoot 2500 rounds would be:

.308 = $2,320
.243 = $2,640
.260 = $2,170

With the remaining barrel life of

.308 = 2500
.243 = 1500
.260 = 0

You can see how doing this sort of analytics opens up pandoras box. And I know some of you are going to read this and go "GO OUT AND SHOOT STOP WORRYING ABOUT THIS STUFF." Well I don't have the liberty of shooting during my lunch break in my office in DC so I like to be as productive as I can with my free time so this is the kind of thing I do.

When I look at changing calibers I want to calculate all of this into play. Then the question becomes is it really worth shifting from .308 to 6.5 Creedmoor for 13% less drop and 8% less wind drift for an increase of decrease in cost per round of 25% a decrease in barrel life of 50%, etc.

Its not always about dollars and cents but making a decision that keeps all these things in mind does seem like the "right" decision to me. One is to assume you have to pay for the best performance but not everyone out there is hot rodding everything because I don't think many, if any, of us have an unlimited pocketbook.

 

[bohem]

So George makes some good points regarding the pressure and load data, namely load data. I will use QL to get a rough estimate of pressure for each of the loads in the sheet if I get:

Powder
Bullet
OAL of loaded round
water capacity of fired brass

That should get us pretty close, at least for sake of argument.


That all being said, I also have to agree that many folks don't shoot as much as they claim and that's evidenced by how many people keep round count books or happen to have a stack of cooked barrels. Personally, my last 2 6.5C barrels lasted 26 months collectively, and over this winter we bought a house and I spent 11 weeks away from the range so that it was ready to move-in. I didn't fire a shot for 11 weeks over the winter, the components shortage caused me to hold off on as much practice as I'd like, but all that means is I didn't have to stand in front of my lathe as often in 2013. It still means that I bought

For a hot-rod 6 or 22c rifle, it is a concern that I balance with the understanding that I spin on my own barrels, so the installation cost is just rolled forward into the next blank.


Matt makes very good points about remaining barrel life for an input of the annual round count. I've approached it a little differently in the manner that I then figure out the cost/round fired and look at it

260 = $2170/2500= $0.868/rd in a year's shooting

Now, the 243 approach I'd just amortize over the whole 2 barrels because if I don't shoot all the life this year, I will next year.

Looking at it two ways instead it is either

$2640/2500 = $1.056/rd in a year

or

$0.48*2000+2*720 = $3360/2000rd = $0.84/rd

So, in that regard it's a little cheaper to shoot a 243 and that's mainly due to the offset of bullet cost versus barrel life cost if we give the 243 2k rounds and a 260 2.5k rounds to a barrel.

However, I have seen a number of 243 barrels go WAY before 2000rd and 260's go closer to 3-3200rd more commonly.

I'm not sure that we have enough data just yet to do so, but at the rate we're going we should have some pretty good numbers soon enough

 

[my human host]

I've roasted more 6mm and 22cal barrels than I care to count. I don't bother keeping exact round counts, tho. I suspect many others are guilty of this as well.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

great thread BOHEM, for some reason the "like" button isn't showing for me, 2 thumbs up

i just pieced together a .243, rem 700 varmint and was committed to keeping a round count from the beginning to see how long it'll last (factory barrel).

105 BTHP moly coated (.530 BC per hornady)
46.5 gr H1000
fed 210 primer
2.780 OAL (.005 off lands)
fed brass trimmed to 2.040
2825 FPS (not "hot")

present 5 rnd groups (average after multiple range sessions, not just the best group). if they open up over an MOA from present, i'll suspect the barrel is shot out, only have 247 rounds through it at this time. may take a couple years though as i'm forecasting only around 800 rnds a year, not rapid fire.....hopefully we'll still be able to own them in 2015!

100y	.5" CTC
200y	1.75" CTC
325y	2.5" CTC
425y	3" CTC

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[bohem]

Excellent data, TP, thank you!

 

[flounderv2]

I have the majority of the data points pulled together for this page. Im just working on some final organization of it and then Ill be putting it online. Im trying to make it as easy as possible for the end user and therefore making as much as possible a drop down selection process. This will also help avoiding challenges with manually entered text for when running queries.

 

[turbo54]

Factory Savage 10FP in 308, mostly all loaded stout with 45.5gr Varget and 175smk @ 2.800". Barrel went south at ~5500 rounds. I cleaned it (fully) frequently during the first 500-1000 rounds, but only every ~500 after that. It was always easily sub moa until the end, when accuracy went to hell... 2-3 moa. Accuracy was actually improving the last ~500 rounds to where it would almost always bug hole @ 100 yards. Then it went out like a light.

 

[diego-ted]

6.5x47 Lapua 30" Kriger heavy palma
1500 went from .5 moa to tossing flyers.
37 gr varget pushing 3050 shooting Berger 130 vlds, jammed 5k. Sometimes ran back to back 20 shot string s.
Chamber showed some fire cracking and 13k erosion.

Diego