Barrel polishing

[Near miss]

Hi,

The Quad barrel I (still) use is quite rough surfaced and collects lead like it was paid to. This is after around 2-3k rounds.
Leaded barrel:


Barrel roughness when it was previously cleaned:



I am intending to clean it now completely and get rid of the problem.
I was thinking if I bought some valve lapping paste and started shooting bullets covered in it?
Or should I just use a slug?

After deciding the best twist rate I will get a new barrel so this is more of an experiment, but I would not want to destroy this barrel intentionally either, want to keep it for testing even after receiving the new barrel.

I cannot think of bad sides to polishing it by shooting, should definitely get all corners and it certainly makes for an even stroke with a slug.

Opinions or experiences anyone?

 

[justin amateur]

Fire lapping can do more damage to the bore than it's worth.
Easier to simply shoot 2 bricks of cheap ammo,
cleaning at 250 shot intervals. The silica
in the burnt primer residue will do the job.

I'd rather make a true lead lap from an old bore brush
and be able to control the process.
Hand lapping using a cleaning rod would be my choice.
Although there are fire lapping kits available.

Fire Lapping a Barrel

 

[Near miss]

Fire lapping can do more damage to the bore than it's worth.
Easier to simply shoot 2 bricks of cheap ammo,
cleaning at 250 shot intervals. The silica
in the burnt primer residue will do the job.

I have shot close to 10k of cheap ammo through it (30k in total) but it seems to be too resistent to it. I indeed have waited for the problem to solve itself but I am running out of patience and am also curious about results.
Since I have a borescope I can monitor the process also.

 

[seanh]

How well does it shoot? If it shoots well, toss your borescope. They typically bring up problems that don't exist.

If you're having issues then as mentioned lapping the barrel does well. If you haven't done it before I suggest sending it to somebody that has. While it's a relatively simple process it's also relatively easy to screw up

 

[...]

How well does it shoot? If it shoots well, toss your borescope. They typically bring up problems that don't exist.

If you're having issues then as mentioned lapping the barrel does well. If you haven't done it before I suggest sending it to somebody that has. While it's a relatively simple process it's also relatively easy to screw up

exactly, i could care less what the bore looks like, or even how leaded it is, if it consistently shoots

lapping is pretty straight forward, and ive had some success with it....but you cant make a silk purse out of sows ears.....if i feel i need to lap a barrel, honestly im just going to replace it.

for the time and money ide spend lapping, for the mediocre results its likely to deliver.....ide rather just pay to have a barrel spun on

 

[Near miss]

It shoots around 60% 0.6moa to 1moa 5 shot groups when clean.
But with the best lot I have found for it yet and the rest 40% is me making one bad shot to the 5 shot groups or a flier.

After it has leaded enough the accuracy drops and I would really like it to stay or even improve.

 

[...]

It shoots around 60% 0.6moa to 1moa 5 shot groups when clean.
But with the best lot I have found for it yet and the rest 40% is me making one bad shot to the 5 shot groups or a flier.

After it has leaded enough the accuracy drops and I would really like it to stay or even improve.

what ammo are you running?

how many shots to get "leaded enough"?
and what does the accuracy drop to once leaded up?

 

[acudaowner]

While am always so happy to see people's video of other people's barrels with an endoscope , I assume one day someone will one day show the video of a petrology exam and try to pass it off as a bore scope view of there gun . And what has been seen , can never be unseen . Those teslong bore scopes are really a great buy for the money , but I wonder not really knowing what I am looking at could be a bad thing rather than a good thing . Like self diagnostic of an ailment via the internet , I could have symptoms of a sore throat and misdiagnose it as a deadly decease . I am neither a doctor not a Metallurgist or a gunsmith if they deal with that type of thing I don't know . But I have enjoyed using my bore scope to see what I can see in the barrel if I am cleaning enough or what wear I can make out .

 

[ta6ppc]

Lots of folks shot benchrest for many years never owned a borescope or even looked through one and always seemed to shoot well. Clean the gun use some isso paste on a patch do a few hundred strokes clean all the isso out and shoot premium ammo like eley tenex or lapua if it doesn’t shoot a one hole 1/4-3/8” group chances are it won’t ever shoot that kinda group or repeat like a bench gun..

I’m skeptical of borescope in barrels because they tend to make you worry about stuff that probably doesn’t amount to much..

 

[Booner1334]

Try using some Kroil penetrating oil in the bore. Use a lot and let it sit overnight. The Kroil seems to migrate under the lead and it helps to lift it. You might try applying the Kroil with either a nylon or brass brush.
After you have let it do it's work run a tight patch through the bore and this should take some of the lead out. If the bore is really leaded, you may have to repeat the above a few times to get it all out.
If this doesn't work, use something like JB Bore paste to remove the lead. It's not nearly as abrasive as valve grinding compound.

 

[Near miss]

At the shop I checked valve grinding stuff and it was way too coarse.

I bought stuff used to polish paint surfaces that has particle hardness enough for steel. I used that stuff but it is so slow and the conditions inside the bore are too much worse for it to make a difference with ease. I am guessing 12-16 hours with that stuff to get the work done.

You guys are probably right, I guess it will be less time consuming to do regular cleaning just more often, until I get the next barrel.

It just seems that every time I get to shoot long range and do some close-range work I soon notice that it is leaded and accuracy has fallen to 1-2moa. Maybe I will try some heavy-duty stuff to it just for fun when I have the new barrel.

I know benchrest guys.. But they do not use factory barrels which have this bane of quality variations.

I will be back!

 

[ta6ppc]

I think you would be surprised if you got some isso paste and really scrubbed it with tight fitting patched jag with a good dose of isso on it for 200 or so push and pulls.

I clean every rifle I have ever got and then run isso through it like described and it has always made for a easy clean factory or stainless either way it’s something I picked up off Speedy Gonzalas when I shot benchrest

 

[silentheart]

Why not just do many of the members do here. Log your round counts. Figure out round count when the accuracy start to fall off. Then deep clean 50 round before average when accuracy drop. Figure out your barrel cleaning schedule.
I usually just run nylon brush 2 times then 2 oil patch’s after range trip. My tikka t1x still shoots 0.3-0.75 moa after 500 rd no deep clean to clear out the lead.

 

[Booner1334]

After looking at the first video of the fouled bore, it looks like you have a pretty good carbon ring built up at the end of the chamber.
That where I'd concentrate my cleaning, in order to reduce the diameter of the ring.

 

[Near miss]

Good advices.

After looking at the first video of the fouled bore, it looks like you have a pretty good carbon ring built up at the end of the chamber.
That where I'd concentrate my cleaning, in order to reduce the diameter of the ring.

It is not, there is a sharp angle in the chamber that makes it look like carbon ring, it is in fact a steel ring. I had already cleaned the carbon ring from the chamber, if I remember correctly.

 

[AGrizz]

Are you using an ammonia based bore cleaner?

 

[seanh]

I know this isn't a question directed at me just thought I would answer my experience.

It's been my finding that ammonia-based cleaners do very well for copper but not so much for lead. I'm just using Hoppe's Nitro solvent right now, on the rare occasion that actually clean my Barrel.

 

[Near miss]

Only bore tech, it seems to do good.

 

[AGrizz]

Thanks.

 

[Near miss]

Thanks.

I actually removed lots of lead by using ~2 or 3ml of RFS and pushing cotton rag forth and back for few ~15 minutes.
I borescoped and there really was grey droplets all over the barrel and pushed through paper had clearly greyish stuff on it.

Just letting the RFS soak in the barrel over the workday did not seem to remove any lead, but I think it made that layer easier to remove. As I got much crap out after that with 2-3 passes of felt with ballistol on it.

 

[want2learn]

what is RFS?

 

[AGrizz]

I am not trying to promote or degrade any products only my experiences.

Just letting your barrel soak with Bore Tech products WILL cause pitting and rusting. Ask me how I know. Change your cleaning regiment and products for the firearms you have. Never leave Bore Tech Products in the barrel. You must clean them out and oil before you put them away for any period of time. Even after you oil them it is possible for Bore Tech to eat away underneath. Make certain you have everything out. And then use something like Ballistol or Hoppes and leave it in there for a few minutes and brush the hell out of it with a nylon brush. Then clean the barrel again to remove the Bore Tech and re oil.

I have trashed all the Bore Tech products I had. Going back to what works and does not cause any damage.

Lapping will not help that barrel. Just shoot it and see if it hits and go from there. Best to just clean it up and use it the way it is. A lot of this is almost microscopic and should be removed just through regular shooting and cleaning.

Before you leave the range and the barrel is still a little warm run a patch with Ballistol or Hoppes through the barrel. It will clean up much easier when you get home.

 

[Near miss]

I am not trying to promote or degrade any products only my experiences.

Just letting your barrel soak with Bore Tech products WILL cause pitting and rusting. Ask me how I know. Change your cleaning regiment and products for the firearms you have. Never leave Bore Tech Products in the barrel. You must clean them out and oil before you put them away for any period of time. Even after you oil them it is possible for Bore Tech to eat away underneath. Make certain you have everything out. And then use something like Ballistol or Hoppes and leave it in there for a few minutes and brush the hell out of it with a nylon brush. Then clean the barrel again to remove the Bore Tech and re oil.

I have trashed all the Bore Tech products I had. Going back to what works and does not cause any damage.

Lapping will not help that barrel. Just shoot it and see if it hits and go from there. Best to just clean it up and use it the way it is. A lot of this is almost microscopic and should be removed just through regular shooting and cleaning.

Before you leave the range and the barrel is still a little warm run a patch with Ballistol or Hoppes through the barrel. It will clean up much easier when you get home.

The idea is that I would like to not have to clean it this often and also want to investigate how much leading can be reduced by changing certain surface conditions.

I got the barrel looking quite much better now.
I shot 10 rounds of mediocre SK lot and then shot 5 shot group of better SK for 0.8moa group at 125yds. I have yet to gather the rest but it was fair 1moa or below with SK Pistol Match Special.

I shot from a wooded area to a field and the weak wind ( 1-4mph) was between 3 and 9.. But I just mainly waited for the boil and shot.

So, the barrel is not ruined just yet and clearly does well without massive leading in it too. POI stayed or not the same, I had groups from 3.9 to 3.6 mil. It could be the barrel was being reconditioned or maybe it was wrong parallax.. Was training one kid to shoot also. A five-year old busted a can at that distance all by himself after some introduction and was quite happy!

Time will tell if the barrel interiors block lead better now. I snaked the barrel after shooting and thats all, I now follow round count and will make some decisions based on that.

My guess is that I will redo the process again with coarser paste first once I find a suitable product and that way I can make the interiors less sticky for lead.








As you can see near the crown the grit is increased as I did not want to go too far. If I compared current barrel surface to my kitchen countertop (old and quite gritty), it does not compete. So much room to improve!

 

[AGrizz]

Will you continue to use Bore Tech products after having to lap the barrel to get it cleaned up again?

 

[gkgeiger]

I am not trying to promote or degrade any products only my experiences.

I have trashed all the Bore Tech products I had. Going back to what works and does not cause any damage.

I just bought Bore Tech product because they were highly recommended. Is this an isolated incident or does anyone else agree with Agrizz? I'd like to hear from others. Thanks,

 

[EddieE]

I just bought Bore Tech product because they were highly recommended. Is this an isolated incident or does anyone else agree with Agrizz? I'd like to hear from others. Thanks,

First time I have heard of anyone talking about bore tech being bad. What eats away at the steel is ammonia hydroxide. Pretty sure bore tech products don't have ammonium hydroxide in them. Hoppes has ammonium hydroxide. Thought so does Ballistol, but I haven't found the reference for it.

 

[Baron23]

They typically bring up problems that don't exist.

hahaha...yeah, my local gunsmith says the same thing and allows that if I start a sentence with "I took a bore scope to the barrel" that all he will hear is yada, yada, yada! LOL

Try using some Kroil penetrating oil in the bore. Use a lot and let it sit overnight. The Kroil seems to migrate under the lead and it helps to lift it. You might try applying the Kroil with either a nylon or brass brush.

It was once recommended to me to mix Shooters Choice (or, I guess the solvent of your choice) 50/50 with Kroil as the Kroil will take the solvent into cracks and crevices it otherwise would not migrate into. I have done so and now always keep a bottle of it on the shelf above my work bench.

 

[Near miss]

Will you continue to use Bore Tech products after having to lap the barrel to get it cleaned up again?

I guess my ramblings are a bit incoherent.
What I meant to say is that after first soaking the barrel with RFS it did not do any spectacular job. I had come from the range and did not have rod with me so gave it a shot.

I noticed the layer of lead coming off only after I started lapping and so did another round of RFS, using cotton cleaning cloth on nylon brush.
This did very good job. If my bronze brush was still in a known location I could have probably made even better work of that lead than with loose cotton.
Bronze brush afterall makes strong mechanical work onto the surface.

Conclusion:
Rimfire Solution works not so well without a rod, but even with small mechanical help and scrubbing the lead started to come off surprisingly easy.

I would estimate that to completely remove lead from groove corners also a bronze brush is needed.

 

[Near miss]

After reviewing barrel after shooting 250 rounds, it seemed the lead was pretty much back in there. It seems that the grooves had been polished better than lands, as grooves had no lead on them. I will have to make better job next time.

I also shot 50m and it seems to run very well. I think it switched the lot it favours, I happened to run out of one lot at the range that shot good before, and now it shot very well with a lot that previously ran poorly.
In practice it did 0.4" average but in each group there was a flier that made the groups from around 0.2-0.25" to 0.4"
Fliers were probably me, the floor at that range is very slippery so holding the rifle consistently from shot to shot is really a struggle.

I will be making another run, with a real lead slug. Now I used slightly worn out nylon brush that was covered in cotton polishing cloth (used in cars) and of course the polishing paste (Farecla).

So far polishing seems to help with leading, but there is (not surprisingly) a standard to it.