Got one steel and one carbon barrel ordered with this new stuff! Can’t wait to try them out!!!
Thanks Frank!!
Thanks Frank!!
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Bartlein New Barrel Material 400MODBB
- Thread starter Frank Green
- Start date
Ordered 2 in Heavy Palma contour... 27 inches... fluted... TRG-42 in 300WM is gonna be fun....
Orders are about 6 mos out according to Brady, as they're a bit slammed!
Orders are about 6 mos out according to Brady, as they're a bit slammed!
I just ordered one with the new material in a carbon wrap #4 20” 1-7.5t for my 6.5 PRC
Seekins Element to be ran Jäger Suppressed.
Increased barrel life, reportedly fouls less
& cleans easier, Sure... I’ll try one.
I’m Stoked !!!
Seekins Element to be ran Jäger Suppressed.
Increased barrel life, reportedly fouls less
& cleans easier, Sure... I’ll try one.
I’m Stoked !!!
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Frank, have you guys tried doing Electro etch rifling? Many years ago when I was a Briley this was the process they were using on their pistol barrels. If memory service, there are no machine marks present and the only stress was from the initial boring.
Covidium19: deadly to targets; shoot the barrel as much as you want and still can't get rid of it until at least 2022.
Oh as a total fan boy of your barrels , I am only slightly saddened you did not announce your barrels were going to be made from adamantium .lol
or another metal you discovered or created with a flashy name like Illudium pu-36 but that was an explosive for Marvin the martian . No one creates good names anymore its all h-1n1 swine flue or covid 19 no black death that was a creative name or small pox which sounds small till you get it or Necrotizing Fasciitis . I can wait to see them in action if its like your other barrels it should be great .
or another metal you discovered or created with a flashy name like Illudium pu-36 but that was an explosive for Marvin the martian . No one creates good names anymore its all h-1n1 swine flue or covid 19 no black death that was a creative name or small pox which sounds small till you get it or Necrotizing Fasciitis . I can wait to see them in action if its like your other barrels it should be great .
@Frank Green does this mean it takes about 400 rounds to break in a barrel instead of the usual 200ish?
Ummmm.....no no difference!
Even in normal steel 200 rounds is out of the ordinary. I myself have never seen that. Not even feedback from ammunition testers that we make test barrels for. At most I’d say normally a 100 rounds.
I have no personal knowledge on the Straight Jacket system etc....so I cannot comment in any way on that.
That has also been said about CFW barrels that they will help the barrel last longer. I call BS on that.
What Theis is saying and what I say is every time you pull the trigger and light that round off the that flame temp etc....is hitting right at the throat area of the chamber. The flame temp of the cartridge powder if I remember correctly depending on the load and powder on the low end is 2200 and the high end is 4000 degrees F. 2200f is the temperature of lava! Rate of fire, how hot you get the barrel, types of bullets are all factors that cause barrel wear as well.
So as Theis said in his 2nd statement and what I said above is the bore takes the brunt of it. You cannot deny the laws of physics. You might be able to slow it down some but your not going to stop it.
Don’t forget maintenance! Don’t clean it or do your cleaning at really long intervals.....expect problems! Think of it this way....would you drive your truck and never change the oil! Let alone check to see if it’s getting low! Don’t do it and you should expect problems. Probably not a good comparison but it applies!
I’ve seen or should I say we’ve gotten back plenty of barrels where little to no up keep has been done on them and or no cleaning at all. The guy wonders why it doesn't shoot anymore or why the bore is pitted etc....
Later, Frank
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How often do you recommend cleaning?
Interesting tidbit: if you drop a pencil on a shuttle tile, it will puncture it. On the flip side, you can put a blow torch to the outward facing side and make it red hot, while holding it in your bare hand on the inward side.
You don’t want it. It’s soft and gummy, and corrodes far too quickly when it isn’t powder coated.
For what its worth, I made molds for the space walk life support systems and molds for the nose and wings of the shuttle tiles.
Engineers told me they are replaced after each flight at about 3million per shot.
When we get a ceramic lined barrel, I would surely pay 10G for it. 98 % of the heat energy is used to expel the projo.
Alan
As part of training , our group had to learn all the ins and outs of a number of shuttle systems, including tiles - primarily around how touching them in any way was bad. First, grease from your fingers could create a hot spot that could cause a burn through. Second, if you look at them wrong, they break. Third, if you look at them on any day ending in a Y, they would fall off, then break.
Certainly makes you think and ask if the brave ones who rode those rockets knew all that was at stake. A guy I know bought a broken glass stock from me years ago and said "hell, we sent people in space in pods made of dog hair and glue, I can fix it.
Yikes!
And that being super fragile was a critical flaw that got the entire crew killed one flight it seems.
Yeah, I wouldn't exactly trust NASA and what they say about the shuttle publicly. This is the same people that said the shuttle was safe to fly with frozen seals on the boosters.
I'm still curious to hear from Frank if they tried any electro-chemical etching or ion discharge Machining.
I'm still curious to hear from Frank if they tried any electro-chemical etching or ion discharge Machining.
I’ve read the thread and saw someone asked However, I cannot find a response. Where can I order one? 6CM and will be having it cut to a Vector action. Will these be sent to usual distributors?
Topic for another thread, but the underlying issue for Columbia was not the fragility of the tiles. The damage occurred on the leading edge of the wing where the reinforced carbon carbon (RCC) panels were - not tiles. People blamed the foam. The real reason is something no one really talks about.
What are you using the gun for?
What caliber is it in?
Round count on the barrel?
Plus the other variables.....
Learn to read the gun. It will tell you what is going on but you have to learn how to read it.
I myself....every 100 rounds or so. If the barrel will not hold accuracy for a 100 rounds it's off the gun. So for example shooting a F class match you can put 60+ to about a 100 rounds a day thru the rifle. F class target is a .5moa target. I will clean it that night before going back to shoot again the next day. Same thing with PRS....you shooting a 2 day or 3 day match etc...I'll clean the gun every night so it's ready to go the next day.
Now some calibers like 308win....heck you could go say 300 or even 500 rounds in between cleanings when the barrel is new and not lose accuracy etc...but lets say when the barrel had 2500 rounds on it....you notice it will only go 200 rounds in between cleanings. The barrel isn't junk...you just have to maintain it. I've seen plenty of our 308win accuracy test barrels go 10k rounds and then some. Last one I got back had 14k plus and just prior to that round count it was holding .5moa for 10 shot groups. Barrels get cleaned after every 50 rounds normally. Once in a while as much as 150 rounds.
Now take that same 308win barrel and chamber it in 300WM or 300 Norma....you just doubled your case capacity. I'm going to say 100 rounds max in between cleanings and that barrel will be toast at around 1000 to 1500 rounds for top accuracy. Your not going to get much more than that out of it.
Same thing applies with that 308win. Keep the same case capacity but neck it down to 6.5mm or 6mm. By reducing the bore size you basically turned it into a magnum round. Your gonna shorten barrel life and you should stay on top of the cleaning much better than the 308win.
Back to what I said earlier....pay attention to the gun. It will tell you what is going on....just learn how to read it. Also just because the guy next to you cleans differently or at different intervals. Doesn't mean he is doing it better.
Later, Frank
Thanks I emailed Them and will be putting in an order in soon. Just needed to find someone that has a Vector action for the cut. They have them for Axioms and offered to take my action in. But then I’m down on that rifle till it’s back.
@Frank Green
Are these marked in any way to distinguish them from "regular" stainless? -- I'm guessing the blanks are marked but, is there any way to tell after they've been finished?
I seem to be constantly battling various entities about not sending me the right product, or otherwise delivering what they were supposed to. So I have concerns about ordering a barrel made out of this premium material, and having to trust that I'm actually getting what I paid for.
Are these marked in any way to distinguish them from "regular" stainless? -- I'm guessing the blanks are marked but, is there any way to tell after they've been finished?
I seem to be constantly battling various entities about not sending me the right product, or otherwise delivering what they were supposed to. So I have concerns about ordering a barrel made out of this premium material, and having to trust that I'm actually getting what I paid for.
It's easy to tell! If it lasts 1000 rounds, it's regular SS. If it lasts 3000 rounds it's 400MODBB.
Simple solution. If you don’t trust a company or person; don’t do business with them. Do you think they will send you the regular steel and then have you bitch all over the Internet about how it didn’t last any longer than normal??
It will be tagged in the Serial Number. It would look like 1BB45678. The BB is the new material.
Later, Mark Buettgen
Bartlein Barrels Inc.
Aside from being our Elder Fart, I am also probably the SH Notorious Piker. I make do with the afforable-est, or do without.
My One And Only Grand Exception has been my beloved L-W 50 260 Rem 28" Barrel that I've been shooting frugally since 2003. While longingly and deeply researching other barrels, the hook has never gotten set since then.
But now; I'm looking for real.
I'm guessing somebody could make a bundle making/selling Rem-age pre-fits out of these blanks.
Bravo;
Greg
My One And Only Grand Exception has been my beloved L-W 50 260 Rem 28" Barrel that I've been shooting frugally since 2003. While longingly and deeply researching other barrels, the hook has never gotten set since then.
But now; I'm looking for real.
I'm guessing somebody could make a bundle making/selling Rem-age pre-fits out of these blanks.
Bravo;
Greg
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Like this?
DRACOS Barrels - StraightJacket Barrel Systems
The bullet never lies. When it comes to performance, the DRACOS StraightJacket® barrel is the most advanced lightweight composite barrel in the world.www.dracosbarrels.com
Steel core, aluminum sleeve, a material filled in between and cured. No idea if it works or how it compares. They said they use Bartlien cores, and the life is extended due to much better heat transfer.
To me, this looks familiar. Without getting into pointless exposition, this appears a consummation of a concept to which I gave some thought myself around 2000.
I think this one's gonna run like a raped ape.
Greg
Theis, I think the concept of a heat sink matrix is a wrong direction.
I'd be thinking somewhat more of something like this as an interstitial filler between the steel core and the radiating shell. That shell could be something as simple as an accordion pleated sheet aluminum sheath (from thinwall aluminum tubing), and the resin could bond the two into a rugged structural monolith with a huge radiating surface area.
L-W did something not entirely dissimilar when they heat shrunk an aluminum shell onto an L-W 50 barrel core. The heat dissipation rate was flatly astounding. They cooled so fast they were essentially invisible to IR imaging right on up and until they got into rapid fire. Or so I was told.
But they were expensive because they needed a very critical fit between the two. Rather than conforming them, I felt that they need to be mated in a manner rather more like bedding, and that these industrial thermoconducting resins were the ideal secret sauce.
Greg
I'd be thinking somewhat more of something like this as an interstitial filler between the steel core and the radiating shell. That shell could be something as simple as an accordion pleated sheet aluminum sheath (from thinwall aluminum tubing), and the resin could bond the two into a rugged structural monolith with a huge radiating surface area.
L-W did something not entirely dissimilar when they heat shrunk an aluminum shell onto an L-W 50 barrel core. The heat dissipation rate was flatly astounding. They cooled so fast they were essentially invisible to IR imaging right on up and until they got into rapid fire. Or so I was told.
But they were expensive because they needed a very critical fit between the two. Rather than conforming them, I felt that they need to be mated in a manner rather more like bedding, and that these industrial thermoconducting resins were the ideal secret sauce.
Greg
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Hi,
Well that is not quiet how I remember a LW test going....I will see if I can dig up the old emails from Woody and Dave Armstrong at Crane....
There is just absolutely no way to get the high heat to "skip" past the inner throat area of a barrel..it just cannot happen.
Heat cannot skip through walls, it must transfer/transition through such walls to reach whatever feeling material. Even the link you referenced states that it "distributes" the heat. Meaning the heat has to have on originating point. In this case the internal chamber of the barrel.
That "straight jacket system" has been around for probably close to a decade now, although under different companies and ownership.
Sincerely,
Theis
Well that is not quiet how I remember a LW test going....I will see if I can dig up the old emails from Woody and Dave Armstrong at Crane....
There is just absolutely no way to get the high heat to "skip" past the inner throat area of a barrel..it just cannot happen.
Heat cannot skip through walls, it must transfer/transition through such walls to reach whatever feeling material. Even the link you referenced states that it "distributes" the heat. Meaning the heat has to have on originating point. In this case the internal chamber of the barrel.
That "straight jacket system" has been around for probably close to a decade now, although under different companies and ownership.
Sincerely,
Theis
To be clear, I'm not saying that I don't trust Bartlein. I'm saying that there are smiths out there that may not use the blank that you ordered by mistake, or on purpose because they only have the regular SS in stock.
Also, when buying on the PX, or otherwise from some Joe Schmo, it's nice to have assurances that you're buying the real deal.
Theis;
Throats are gonna toast; I get that, the physics demand that.
I'm not sure who you're responding to in #147. PM inbound.
Greg
Throats are gonna toast; I get that, the physics demand that.
I'm not sure who you're responding to in #147. PM inbound.
Greg
I know that was going to come up at some point in time. When we cut the steel for the orders....the 400MOD material is getting spray painted on one end in orange. They also get marked BB at the same time. When the blank gets pulled for an order than the information and lot code gets put on the paperwork and the guy doing the turning after it's finished turned marks the barrel again and the order number and customers name in an industrial marker on the outside. After it's rifled the s/n information gets stamped on the the breech end and the order updated with the s/n at that time as well.
All of the blanks in the picture marked BB if you flip them around on the other end are also spray painted orange on the other end and marked BB as well on that end.
Standard 416 material doesn't get spray painted prior to doing any work to it for any orders.
So yes we don't want the stuff getting mixed up as well. It cost us more to get. So no matter how you look at it we need to keep it separated.
Later, Frank
Attachments
Yes that can be an issue and how do you control it? Your trusting the guy your buying it from. Once that barrel has been fitted up and the stamped information is gone.....you won't necessarily be able to tell what you got.
On a similar note....I cannot tell you how many times we've received barrel or even barrels in from a customer with a complaint on it and guess what it's not even our barrel! Twice I had one guy call and complain that our 30cal barrels where not shooting! He sent 6 of them back one time alone and he wanted them replaced. I looked at them and called the guy/shop owner up and said I wasn't replacing a single one. He asked why of course! I said they are all 6 groove and for sales to the general public at that time we had only made about a dozen 6 groove barrels and they where all 17 twist for BR guns. These where hunting rifles with 10 twist barrels and we never sold him a single one to begin with in 6 groove. Plus I could tell the barrels where button rifled. I returned the barrels to him and told him and to call the place he got them from.
Later, Frank
I didn't see this answered. Do the restrictions on lighter profiles associated with 416R apply to this new material?
Thanks for all the updates Frank!
We can do that but it would have to be made out of the 2.125" diameter material we have. If the material goes over good and the demand is there we will make another order for a mill run and I'll throw in a batch of 1.5" diameter material but as a guess that's going to be about 6 months to a year down the road. I'll try and remember to make a post if that happens but the best thing to do would to give me a shout from time to time.
Later, Frank
I still say the restrictions on the lighter profiles still apply. Sorry brother!
Welcome on the updates!
Later, Frank
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