Bartlein New Barrel Material 400MODBB

Ummmm.....no no difference!

Even in normal steel 200 rounds is out of the ordinary. I myself have never seen that. Not even feedback from ammunition testers that we make test barrels for. At most I’d say normally a 100 rounds.


That is interesting to hear you say that, I personally have never owned a barrel that didnt speed up significantly(20-50fps) in the 150-200 round area.
 
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Awesome innovation Frank! I just have two questions:

1.) Can it be nitrided to further increase the barrel life like 416R and CM can if done with the proper process?

2.) How would the barrel life compare to 4150CMV and similar "stronger" CM barrels?
 
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Awesome innovation Frank! I just have two questions:

1.) Can it be nitrided to further increase the barrel life like 416R and CM can if done with the proper process?

2.) How would the barrel life compare to 4150CMV and similar "stronger" CM barrels?

The 4150 type material doesn't last any longer even vs. standard 416 material in my opinion. If it did then why on gov't test barrel drawings do they list and allow 416, 4150 or 4140? If there was a clear advantage....they would make it clear as to what they wanted.

We haven't nitrided any at all and don't see why you couldn't. I'm not a fan of nitriding as it's another variable to contend with. I know the barrel can be left in the process to long and it can actually make the bore brittle and have a negative effect on barrel life. So we won't warranty any barrel that has been nitrided.

My opinion is when you get the barrel finished....and before nitriding. You should shoot it for a base line to make sure it is shooting good. Also this will help polish/break in the throat. Don't put more than say 25-50 rounds on it. Clean it good and then send it out for nitriding.

When you get it back you should clean the bore out thoroughly to get all scale out of the bore of the barrel. In order to do this I used )0000 steel wool wrapped around a brush and soaked with oil. Took about a 100 strokes to get the bore finish back to about 90% or more. Stroked it 50x cleaned it out and bore scoped it. Then did it 50 more times. I had a 260 barrel done and after cleaning it for like 3 days I was always getting a reddish/rusty color on the patches. This is the scale in the bore left over from the nitriding/meloniting process. So I called them and started asking questions and this is what I was told to do.

Also nitriding/melonite will very minutely add to the bore size. It should only add say .0001" but I have documentation where the print calls out for up to +.001" of build up. I don't agree with this.

Later, Frank
 
Frank,

What were the results with your nitrided 260 barrel? Also, you mentioned military testing......have they tested the nitride process on sniper rifle barrels in particular? If so, what were the results in accuracy before/after and longevity.

If this should be asked in another thread please let me know, I can create one and we can discuss there.

Ern
 
2 minutes ago
Bartlein Barrels is pleased to announce the release of a new barrel material. Working with the mill and testing different types of material and tweaking the material over the last few years and with testing having been performed by ammunition makers we now have a different grade of material that we have had made and is proprietary to us.

The material has been proven in lab testing and in outside real world testing to provide a barrel life that is 1.5 to 2 times longer than the standard 416 grade of material.

We are calling the material 400MODBB. Pricing for this barrel material in standard diameters/contours etc...will be $555.

As always there are a list of things that effect barrel life and we cannot guarantee everything a 100% but for an example as I know it will be asked....in 6.5CM ammunition pressure test barrels are normally pulled from service at around 1700 rounds. The new material doing the same type of ammunition test work the barrel was pulled from service after it had 3500 rounds on it. We've had several 6mm's in calibers that the barrel normally is pulled around 1500 rounds go 3000 rounds.

We and or the customers that have done the threading and chamber work have had no issues with machining. I will say your reamers will not last as long but nothing that would really concern me. It does machine a little different but it's not horrible to work with.

So you will have a choice of the standard 416 material from us and the 400MODBB material.

Any questions it would be a lot easier if you emailed us at [email protected] or called in directly at 262-677-1717 but I can only imagine the amount of questions we will be getting and with everything going on in the world currently I'll ask you to be patient for the replies.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Great news I was just getting ready to order a 6.5 barrel from y’all. I wouldn’t shoot either your old or new product out but I have sons and grandsons so I’ll see if we can’t get this old fat mans So Paw Smoke Pole fixed!
 
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Good news shooters! You can now order custom pre-fit barrels with this new 400modbb barrel material directly from Straight Jacket Armory!

https://straightjacketarmory.com/product/bartlein-400modbb-prefit-barrels/

These new barrels are selling like hotcakes so be quick to get your order in now!

Snipers Hide members use promo code BARTLEIN-SH for $40 OFF your order and FREE SHIPPING

Call 307-707-3181 Ext 1 to start your order today!


Shoot Straight!

StraightShooter77

Are you planning to machine some AXMC/AXSR barrels as well? They need thicker barrel shank, and don't know if that's an option for the 400MOD blanks.
 
Are you planning to machine some AXMC/AXSR barrels as well? They need thicker barrel shank, and don't know if that's an option for the 400MOD blanks.

We can. Currently we only have 1.312" diameter material and 2.125" diameter material. So we will have to peel it down from the 2.125" material in order to make you one. Sorry but have to ding you for the oversize material charge.

Depending on which version of the AXMC/AXSR you have as the original ones had a breech diameter of just over 1.4" and the new ones are just a tick under. So between wasting a lot of material and the extra turning time is a killer.

Later, Frank
 
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Hi,

Here is my opinion on that concept....
1. The internal barrel steel still gets the maximum temperature and flash point burn inside it, no matter what is placed externally of it as a "heat absorbing filler".
2. By the time the heat reaches the exterior of the steel barrel aka the fill material...the part of the barrel that fire cracks has already taken all the heat as if it were a "traditional" barrel.

NOTHING IMO is going to increase barrel life unless it touches what burns/erodes the barrels out and that is done internally not externally.

Ceramic metallization and even sapphire metallization is a cure to heat erosion and fire cracking but nobody is ready to pay 8k dollars per barrel type thing for a manufacturer to recover the R&D cost over the span of the market shelf life.

Frank and his crew have put in the leg work and the MONEY work...buying an entire mill run of anything is not cheap, especially once you start talking about modifying its' chemical makeup from "run of the mill" alloys.
In a world of "New Normals", lol.....I am looking forward to this new normal.

Sincerely,
Theis

They do something like to vanes this at a gas turbine plant I work at some as a contractor. The cost is astronomical. Pretty cool process though. I imagine it would be at home on suppressor innards.
 
Carbide doesn’t like chatter, you’re right, but that doesn’t mean HSS has an advantage, and you can still chatter with HSS, which shows up as poor quality surface finish, despite not being as destructive to the tool. Chatter is bad for any tool, and any machinist worth his Kennedy knows how to eliminate it.
I don’t think it’s just guys doing manual work who need to be careful. Best practice applies to NC and CNC machining as well.
 
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@Frank Green - I just want to thank you for taking the time to present this information and answer these questions.

There is a very large number of very experienced and highly knowledgeable members here on the Hide (and I'm def not one of them) but its outstanding to have a premier manf come on the site and offer up expert opinions and information first hand.

Now, just out of idle curiosity, I gave some thought to the discussion above about barrel features tried to pull heat out of the bore. Its been MANY decades since I took any thermal dynamics courses but my vague understanding is that such features may dissipate the heat faster but will absolutely not do anything about the almost instantaneous peak temps reached, for example, in the throat. Basically, they may increase the heat transfer coefficient but do nothing about the initial thermal load. This will shorten the time that the material is at temp, but not the peak temp.

But I really don't know what I'm talking about! hahaha

Cheers
 
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@Frank Green - I just want to thank you for taking the time to present this information and answer these questions.

There is a very large number of very experienced and highly knowledgeable members here on the Hide (and I'm def not one of them) but its outstanding to have a premier manf come on the site and offer up expert opinions and information first hand.

Now, just out of idle curiosity, I gave some thought to the discussion above about barrel features tried to pull heat out of the bore. Its been MANY decades since I took any thermal dynamics courses but my vague understanding is that such features may dissipate the heat faster but will absolutely not do anything about the almost instantaneous peak temps reached, for example, in the throat. Basically, they may increase the heat transfer coefficient but do nothing about the initial thermal load. This will shorten the time that the material is at temp, but not the peak temp.

But I really don't know what I'm talking about! hahaha

Cheers

Your welcome.

Yes the carbide reamers will last longer than HSS.

We’ve chambered the new material barrels with both reamers. Yes it does feel like it cuts differently but it’s no issue in chambering the barrels.

I feel the same way....the throat/chamber area takes the heat every time you pull the trigger. The temperature depending on the load/cartridge etc...runs somewhere from 2200F to 4000F.

At this time I’ve seen nothing that you do to the outside of the barrel cooling wise per say that is going to help what happens at the throat of the chamber/rifling.
 
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Looks like any other rifle in a xlr chassis 😂
3C8D30F4-D6EA-4926-99CE-CC76343C1071.jpeg
 
Anyone burn one of these out on 6mm PRS build?

I am getting one spun for a dasher, curious to see what real world life to expect is.
I don’t have any personal experience other than having a couple of them on order. I’ve talked to some sponsored shooters (however you want to interpret that) and heard numbers up to 3800 rounds on a 6BRA that was still performing to a PRS match level.
 
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I’d sure like to order one of these in 7mm 8 twist CFW! At the cost I may wait and see some results before I do but would be pretty cool to get a 7 Saum near 2500-3000 rounds. Pretty much all my rifles are hunting rifles but I shoot about 1000 rounds a year out of each of em. And it gets expensive when using CFW barres for hunting...maybe I should build one for strictly targets with a steel bbl :rolleyes:
 
This is very interesting!

I know a gunsmith who used to be on the evaluation and testing panels for the USMC. He specialized in testing for M40 components and ammunition.

He said they eventually settled on Schneider since the barrels got almost 2x the barrel life of the other competitors.

I wonder if Schneider is/was using a similar metal? Or if they had some other voodoo?

Anyway, this seems great! I need to make sure the barrel I ordered is made of this!
 
Anyone burn one of these out on 6mm PRS build?

I am getting one spun for a dasher, curious to see what real world life to expect is.

We've had about 5 different guys burn them out already. 6BRA and 6 Dasher type guns. One guy is on 4k+ rounds and it's still shooting last word we had. Most of the guys seem to be around 3000 - 3500 rounds or so but haven't officially considered them done. One guy pulled his at 3300+ rounds and put a fresh stick on for the PRS Series Finale just to be on the safe side but the old barrel was still shooting.

Another shooter and Spec. Forces soldier is taking his rifle to the finale. It's a gas gun in 6x47 Lapua and he is running his 105-109gr loads at 3100fps + and the barrel has 2k rounds on it. He said he normally pulled his barrels at 800-1200 rounds because they where toast. Also is currently testing a 300 Norma and that is at 2k rounds also.
 
Why? You think they know more about barrels than the guys that make them?
I think just about all their builds are done with bartlein barrels and they have more experience with this you do and since they build some of the best rifles out there and build all my rifles i will see what they think about it sorry if that bothers you
 
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We've had about 5 different guys burn them out already. 6BRA and 6 Dasher type guns. One guy is on 4k+ rounds and it's still shooting last word we had. Most of the guys seem to be around 3000 - 3500 rounds or so but haven't officially considered them done. One guy pulled his at 3300+ rounds and put a fresh stick on for the PRS Series Finale just to be on the safe side but the old barrel was still shooting.

Another shooter and Spec. Forces soldier is taking his rifle to the finale. It's a gas gun in 6x47 Lapua and he is running his 105-109gr loads at 3100fps + and the barrel has 2k rounds on it. He said he normally pulled his barrels at 800-1200 rounds because they where toast. Also is currently testing a 300 Norma and that is at 2k rounds also.

Thanks frank, always appreciate your time and wisdom.
 
I think just about all their builds are done with bartlein barrels and they have more experience with this you do and since they build some of the best rifles out there and build all my rifles i will see what they think about it sorry if that bothers you
The reason why he brought this up is because @Frank Green is Bartlein barrels. He is the one who came up with this in the first place.
 
The reason why he brought this up is because @Frank Green is Bartlein barrels. He is the one who came up with this in the first place.
i know but not disrespecting Frank because all my guns have his barrels but I trust the guys at GA and will get their opinion. I don't see the problem with get 1 of the best gunsmiths opinion before getting a gun built with this barrel?
 
I think just about all their builds are done with bartlein barrels and they have more experience with this you do and since they build some of the best rifles out there and build all my rifles i will see what they think about it sorry if that bothers you
Doesn’t bother me a bit. It just shows that you Don’t go to the right places for the best information. George and crew are awesome, no doubt, but they aren’t going to know more about a new steel alloy than the guys that worked to get to developed and have been using and testing it long before it was public knowledge.
 
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Hi,

I hate to be the bearer of flip side of asking gunsmith's about new alloy.

1. They do tend to make money on spinning up barrels so you would be asking someone that potentially stands to loose money. (NOT referring to ANY particular smith, just in general logic conversation).

2. They do tend to NOT be very expedient at accepting "changes" within any aspect of the industry.

3. Willing to wager we see the same sort of "pushback" and syrup slowness of smiths pushing ModBB as we seen when "prefits" starting becoming a thing.

4. Please let us know what alloy analyzation machine that any smith has in their shop.

5. Please let us know what TESTING procedures any smith have done to come up with their conclusion aka OPINION on the regular vs new alloy.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
Doesn’t bother me a bit. It just shows that you Don’t go to the right places for the best information. George and crew are awesome, no doubt, but they aren’t going to know more about a new steel alloy than the guys that worked to get to developed and have been using and testing it long before it was public knowledge.
Not asking them about what atoms make up the steel..I am going to ask them about their experience with the barrels if he tells me to stick with 416 then I would go that way. If he tells me to give it a go I will. But I guess next time I should just ask you because it looks like you know everything....even what questions I was going to ask but please keep telling me what I should be doing when spending my 5,000 bucks
 
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Hi,

I hate to be the bearer of flip side of asking gunsmith's about new alloy.

1. They do tend to make money on spinning up barrels so you would be asking someone that potentially stands to loose money. (NOT referring to ANY particular smith, just in general logic conversation).

2. They do tend to NOT be very expedient at accepting "changes" within any aspect of the industry.

3. Willing to wager we see the same sort of "pushback" and syrup slowness of smiths pushing ModBB as we seen when "prefits" starting becoming a thing.

4. Please let us know what alloy analyzation machine that any smith has in their shop.

5. Please let us know what TESTING procedures any smith have done to come up with their conclusion aka OPINION on the regular vs new alloy.

Sincerely,
Theis
You are making a lot of assumptions on here.