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Best 6mm cartridge*
- Thread starter sierracharlie338
- Start date
If I were to rebarrel or build a rifle in 6 mm, 243 would be it. Flawless feeding without effort, speed out the wazoo, better barrel life than anything creedmoor with the correct powder choices, brass available anywhere.
.260 is a good caliber but Remington dropped the ball and Hornady picked it up and drove it home with the Creedmoor.
The great thing about reloading is that we don't have to give a single fuck about what the ammo factories do or don't do.
Something I don't think was mentioned, (though I skimmed this thread, so could have missed it) but I thought there were some issues with running long high-BC bullets in magazines with the .243 due to length.
According to his book, that was one of the reasons David Tubb created the 6XC. He wanted to be able to seat a 115 gr bullet ahead of the neck-shoulder junction, have some room to chase throat erosion, and still be able to be mag fed. To do this, the 243 needed a longer neck and a somewhat shorter case.
According to his book, that was one of the reasons David Tubb created the 6XC. He wanted to be able to seat a 115 gr bullet ahead of the neck-shoulder junction, have some room to chase throat erosion, and still be able to be mag fed. To do this, the 243 needed a longer neck and a somewhat shorter case.
Nope there is no issue running 115s in a .243. Did it for years in AICS mags.
Not my intent merely looking for opinions on different chamberings. Did kinda get off track for a bit but not like this one ???
I’ve missed the Hide ?
My theory as a Newbie is this: when experienced true experts are vehemently diametrically opposed, we have entered the hair-splitting zone, where my feeble skills will far outweigh any real difference in equipment. And that’s actually useful to know.
No you missed the point. The thread was titled Best 6mm caliber.
The 6CM might be the best for a specific use if you started narrowing down the the use window. But not really on it’s own.
Yes I have seen people shoot 1500 rounds, but also 800 like me and 900 ish in another barrel. Knowing that at both ends of a barrels life the first speed up the last slows down there is less meat than their should be. One season I ran a 6.5 4000 rounds just to see if I could get there. It seemed to have several phases of degradation and in the end was shooting far worse than most people would ever accept. If I got up and said 6.5 last 4000 rounds I’d be misleading people. I am not getting up and bashing the 6CM or the only guy who I see at matches who has lost 6CM barrels sub 1000 rounds. Yes, some people are getting 1200-1500, but not every barrel is working out like that.
Oh and that 6.5 barrel that had the gross number of rounds? @MarcS from Spartan Riles cut 4” off and I spun it on a Neighboor’s action. I shot 2 shots to get a zero.. the next 4 as a group.
Marc laughed when he saw the group but said don’t expect the barrel to last much longer. FWIW the gun has not been shot sense and sitting for two years in my neighbors safe. I have no idea if this barrel will last.
I still have another new 6CM barrel to burn through and about 2000 rounds. So I am still shooting the 6CM - trying to be as non-bias as possible, providing honest information as has both of the Dave’s (one from Texas and one from Nevada).
btw I was in @47guy squad at CalNev and we were discussing this very thing a couple years ago about inconsistent barrel life in the 6CM. He has just switched and was hammering with his new 6mm cartridge. I do not think anyone is trying not to like the 6CM. We’ve invest a lot of time and money in the 6CM, switching out is costly and not fun so it for a reason.
Interesting that someone brought up us 308 shooters when the 6.5 was being popularized in the PRS type matches as an example of the concern over the 6CM. I think the difference is the concerns we’re seeing in this thread are coming from 6CM shooters themselves. Not at all the same thing as a 308 guy bashing the 6.5’s merits.
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Well, technically are all right if you are talking best 6mm caliber.
Now best 6mm cartridge, that's a different story...
Now best 6mm cartridge, that's a different story
...
David Tubb can overcomplicate a wet dream.
David Tubb went through the entire evolution of 308, down to 6.5mm, then to 243, and on to inventing his own 6mm cartridge before anyone else even realized that the 308 sucks (gasp! I said it!) He was 10+ years ahead of everyone, and I couldn't help but laugh as everyone acted as though the 6 Creed somehow reinvented the wheel. The only reason the 6 Creed is more popular is Hornady threw their weight behind it. Stand those two cartridges next to each other and I bet 90% of people couldn't tell the difference.
Tubb only seems over-complicated because he's 10 years ahead of us.
Yes I’ve narrowed it down. I have also seen that people can’t let things go and have to be right even when no one cares lol
I've been following his work since before most of you even knew what a precision rifle was (late 90s). While he's very analytical, some of what he does is of dubious value.
Then .243 or Gay Tiger.
Lmao the Gay Tiger name kills me every time I read it. Can’t say I am familiar with the origin of the name but funny none the less. Those two and the 6x47 are the only three I’m looking at now. Since I’ve built a 243 in the past it may be one of the latter two that win out. Just to try something new since I’d be starting from scratch again.
Then go Gay Tiger and be done with it. Buy brass and dies and go shoot. You know my feelings about the 6x47.
Yeah I’m torn lolThen go Gay Tiger and be done with it. Buy brass and dies and go shoot. You know my feelings about the 6x47.
Then go Gay Tiger and be done with it. Buy brass and dies and go shoot. You know my feelings about the 6x47.
I was a 6x47L shooter for 12 years, it served me well!
What I liked:
#1 Almost unbelievable brass life, 6 barrels, 2 rifles sold with 500-ish round counts, but to my point I still have my original brass with 38-ish cycles and the pockets on 98% are still tight!!!!!!
(I did cheat in that I used my own custom reamer, and custom dies to match that reamer, as well as I annealed, all which I'm sure extended brass life beyond the norm).
#2 Small rifle primers used which provides more brass in the heel of the case giving long brass life - see above^^^^
#3 .059 flash hole - same as the super accurate 6mmBR cases, as well as the 6mmPPC, both of which hold most benchrest records.
#4 less powder used than many of the larger 6mm's.
#5 longish neck length.
# feeds well.
2400 rounds on first barrel
1500 on next one
2900 on a melonited barrel
1600 on last one.
All barrel life was stretched to the limit, lol. """ BTW, DON'T ever use a 6x47L barrel past 1400 rounds on it in a big 2 day match, or else, lol!!!!"""
Accuracy was never a problem, SD in the 7's on ave, did 115's at 2925-3000 fps, 105's to 3100-3175 fps.
I went to 6mmBr now, and I must say that it can put down some stupid small vertical at distance, did sub 2" at 1000Y for 9 shots, and the last two times I chronoed the ES was 5.5 ave!!!
30.4 grains of Varget behind a 105 hybrid at 2894 fps.
Hoping for 2500 or more barrel life???
What I liked:
#1 Almost unbelievable brass life, 6 barrels, 2 rifles sold with 500-ish round counts, but to my point I still have my original brass with 38-ish cycles and the pockets on 98% are still tight!!!!!!
(I did cheat in that I used my own custom reamer, and custom dies to match that reamer, as well as I annealed, all which I'm sure extended brass life beyond the norm).
#2 Small rifle primers used which provides more brass in the heel of the case giving long brass life - see above^^^^
#3 .059 flash hole - same as the super accurate 6mmBR cases, as well as the 6mmPPC, both of which hold most benchrest records.
#4 less powder used than many of the larger 6mm's.
#5 longish neck length.
# feeds well.
2400 rounds on first barrel
1500 on next one
2900 on a melonited barrel
1600 on last one.
All barrel life was stretched to the limit, lol. """ BTW, DON'T ever use a 6x47L barrel past 1400 rounds on it in a big 2 day match, or else, lol!!!!"""
Accuracy was never a problem, SD in the 7's on ave, did 115's at 2925-3000 fps, 105's to 3100-3175 fps.
I went to 6mmBr now, and I must say that it can put down some stupid small vertical at distance, did sub 2" at 1000Y for 9 shots, and the last two times I chronoed the ES was 5.5 ave!!!
30.4 grains of Varget behind a 105 hybrid at 2894 fps.
Hoping for 2500 or more barrel life???
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If you don’t like calling it the gay tiger, “el Tigre joto” is a much more formal and proper name.
Are you reading any of this thread? The issue is trying to push it to 3150-3200fps and blowtorching the throat in 1100rds.
105s/109s at 2950ish and you'll land somewhere between 1500-2000, I'm optimistic for 2000.
How many 6CM barrels have you used?
I am a lightweight at 3 compared to some of the guys I know switching back out. @47guy I think ran 5 or 6.
I would agree that if your running them under the speed they capable of and at the speed of other known super precise cartridges, the barrels will last longer. Not sure what that accomplishes though.
if I was going to build a super feather weight coues deer gun, the 6CM loaded hot would absolutely be my favorite choice. I honestly believe it is a good cartridge, especially as a 243 done right. Just not as a heavy use high round count gun.
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Part of that is the cartridge case must be necked down if using 6.5x47L brass. For whatever reason some people new to doing this would screw up the brass (various reasons) in the necking down process. I can't remember which Co but one is making new 6x47 brass now so...
Also even when necked down correctly most of the reamers Freebores were short enough that the bottom of the bearing surface of the bullet was below the neck/shoulder junction going into what is called a "donut" which is where the brass goes when it's necked down "at the NSJ". Donuts not good.
My reamer has a long freebore so I didn't need to worry about donuts, and besides I neck turned my brass anyway. I was anal about that kind of brass prep back then. Not so much now, especially with 6mmBR which I haven't done anything to.
The video George did about it laid out its purpose well and you can’t argue about his reasoning.
I have been extremely impressed with 6BR. Running Berger 105gr Hybrid Targets getting 2905fps w/ SDs ~4-6fps ES ~10-15fps. Sub 1” vertical at 700 yards. This is my first 6BR barrel so time will tell on barrel life. Zero feeding issues. Only ejection issues in an AIAX if running bolt slow. HRD mag adapters w/ unmodified AW and AX mags.
I have never seen the barrel temp sticker get over 100deg F
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Ok yeah this is tracking more with what I was referring to, not speed or barrels getting burned up quick. That’s a problem with all 6mms, to varying degrees. Something you got to live with.
Maybe I should have called it, “tune ability”. I was referring to what Gardner talked about in the 6GT video, where varget is too fast and then case capacity becomes an issue with h4350. So it sounds like to me finding the right powder and bullets can be a chore for the 6X47L. But again, I’m a newbie, and plenty of people shoot and load for the 6x47L so...
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Zero. I run a 6x47 as I've said, several times. The differences between the cartridges are negligible.
The complaints about them, when run hot, are almost identical. "Finicky" accuracy, low barrel life.
Stands to reason what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
On the other hand I'm on 6x47L barrel #4 I think for various reasons. One was still shooting well, run at 3150+ but the round count was making me nervous with another match on the schedule, still have that one in the drawer for the Remmy action.
Currently running a Bartlein on my TL3, same powder charge and seating depth, first 105s then 109s, still going strong at 1409rds through it.
You're not sure what running the 6mm's a little slower, for better barrel life and longevity accomplishes?
It accomplishes a longer usable barrel in competition, one whose load doesn't need retuning or lands chasing for consistency. Do you think you're really giving anything up with those 200fps?
Most of the guys winning would disagree since they're all going to cartridges that couldn't hit 3150 if they wanted to and didn't mind killing the barrel.
Hunting is a bad example buddy. Most hunters don't shoot a box of ammo a year including zero at hunter sight in day at the range.
You can run whatever you want in a hunting scenario because you'll never burn a barrel on a single hunting season.
In this sport, pushing a 6mm at 3150-3200 you can easily nuke a barrel in a couple matches. I'd say that's the thing people are trying to get away from. That's what downloading to 2950 accomplishes.
It allows you a consistent barrel for a longer period of time, maybe an entire season if you aren't shooting the same barrel for practice or shooting 12 matches a year, you'll get better longevity.
If you're just starting out with 6mms get a 6x47. It feeds, no mag kits needed, no feed lip tinkering or fire forming required.
If you already had a 6cm or a 6x47 or a 243 and aren't happy with the barrel life or consistency of the load, drop the 105/109 class bullets under 3000fps and I think you'll see more of what you want to see.
Or you could try and sell everything, retool for a brand new caliber with the 1800-2200 round barrel life you want. All you have to do is buy dies, brass, fireform the cases, do load development, buy mag kits because they won't feed from a regular mag, tweak the feed lips because even with a mag kits they don't work, and you're home free!
Or you could just load what you already have a little slower ??
6 barrels for me...if i wasnt already knee deep in the BR based cartridges id bought a rainbow shirt painted my nails and joined the gay tiger crew.
The 6GT seems like a really well designed cartridge. I think it's going to explode this year with popularity.
For me, it doesn't do anything my 6BRA doesn't already do. I've got 6BR dedicated mags, and I'm more then happy with the performance of the 6BRA.
For those getting into 6mm and don't want to get into 6BR case specific mags and fireforming, I think it's one of the more compelling choices.
I know there's a lot of love for the 6 Creedmoor, but I personally don't see the allure.
i was running a BR before i switched to the BRA....i shot some of the smallest groups with the BR at 2875ish
i agree 100%...i love the BRA and when i switched to the BRA i was looking for a reamer so i could go gay but they were outta stock im glad i stayed straight.
next time your up this way I will tune your mags for the BR...I’ve shot the straight BR..BRX and now the BRA all feed flawlessly with the primal rights kits and a little lip tuning
AI mags with primal rights kits and some mag lip tuning works really well. I also polish up the inside of the mag lips with some light grit sandpaper to make them feed a little nicer.
I've since swapped to the MDT 6BR mags, but haven't run them enough to confirm their reliability. They seem promising though.
same here...I just switched from MPA chassis’s to manners PRS1s and had to actually take about a 1/32” + or - off the lips so the bolt don’t bind when the rifle rests on the mag.
Thankfully I've never had to take anything off the feedlips, but I run JAE chassis' which have the benefit of having the ability to adjust mag height.
BTW Vu from Norcal just added both our clubs to the Norcal forum.
I still have to fill in our 2020 match schedule. But it’s great because we’ll have Norcal-SacValley,Tehama, Arizona (Regina’s), NorNev and Avenal in one place -
we have the PRS Sharp Shooter Pro Bolt Series Match next month with lots of spots open.
My Favorite, 1 day, UKD Team Match in November 2020 is already full. I guys I could always add a stage and sneak a few more in..
Have some Hide guys coming love to see more. Get on the waiting list, I’ll see what I can do.
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How do you like the MPA? They seem to have a pretty good following. I’ve owned elements, ax pre14, axmc and a couple other chassis but not the MPA. Looking at picking up a bravo but intrigued by the MPAs as well.
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