Well in classic fashion we’ve descended into the realm of the less than qualified opinions
look is a free country, do whatever you want but I’d urge us all to consider the aspects of the ego at play here.
Each fight that occurs is unique. No two gunfights are ever the same…BUT you will over time notice trends…BUT to truly understand and interpret, and integrate trends you need context. Context arrives from experience, experience can be personal which while powerful profound is often statistically limited. Other forms of experience come from the institutional or organizational perspective. This is the collective organization of the members individual experiences that will shape and develop a coherent doctrinal outline for the collective, the purpose of which is to enhance the groups abilities to succeed.
“Strength of the wolf is the pack, the strength of a pack is the wolf”
Some of you are probably wondering what the I am rambling on about. Let me say it simply:
Some of the things I am reading in this thread are fuck’en retarded. Comments that lack any grounded perspective other than it’s just been regurgitated over and over and thus have no context. Misplaced priority or concern on nuanced aspects while completely disregarding key principles is another issue.
That being said, don’t take this personal, this isn’t an attack on anyone, I simply think if we going to have a dialogue that’s somewhat productive rather than just an echo chamber, it needs to start with an honest self assessment. The point of a this discussion (any really) isn’t to “win” the argument but leave with something of value.
So quick background, personal I have 19ish years of military service, mostly in special operations. Heavy focus on sniper stuff but I cut my teeth as rifleman and assaulter long before that. I currently work for Ridgeline, our primary clients consist of special operation units both US and Foreign as well as others better not mentioned. Our staff is small but robust and includes LE and Mil operators from near every service (sorry Air Force
) as well as other organizations outside of DoD. One of our primary contracts is a Low-Visibly Operator Course focused on small team (1-4 PAX) SUT/CQB in and around vehicles and residential structures with pistol/sub/carbines from concealment.
Here’s the notes relevant to the original post some additional observations.
Pistol/Subguns - These suck at winning gunfights when it comes to putting metal on meat. Better that a sharp point stick but a rifle/carbine is a whole magnitude of ballistic effectiveness above a pistol cartridge even with a sub gun. While there are a plethora of circumstances that might allow you to come out on top with a pistol vs a rifle, you won’t always be able to control those BUT you can control what you start with and a rifle is a better option.
Also I’ve seen A LOT of people shoot pistols over the years and I probably can count on one hand the number of people that are good enough with a pistol for it to be an confidently welded as an effective primary.
And that’s one of the points of concern here that I keep seeing, that “pistols are for CQB”. No they are NOT a primary weapon system, they are a backup another platform or a compromise for situations such as environments that demand concealment. If you think that rolling single handed with a pistol, while carry a baby in the dead of night against unknown threats is a good idea, you’re fuck’en bananas. The priority is to win this fight so stack the deck in you favor.
Suppressors - John Lovell already it laid out. VIOLENCE OF ACTION. As a singleton or a small team the psychological factor of unsuppressed fire in the confines of CQC is significant. I see this every time we teach the LVOC. Everyone, even seasoned hitters tend to be like “Goddamn!” when we roll unsuppressed in vehicles or tight rooms. I want everyone involved to be second guessing their decisions, 10.3” has that effect. Obviously amplified hearing protection is a thing, so just do it.
