Sidearms & Scatterguns Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

#151
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G.Ruff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a bad case of "gone ass" to me. </div></div>

Yep, 30 more, an I'll be back at my 1964 thru early 80's Military weight,... I beat the doctors predictions again, still Praying everyone else at HardRock does as well.

Much to be said for will power, an mind set.
 
#152
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
29th of may last year, 23yo kid hit my 86 Bronco II (they set high by the way)I had bought new. It flipped 3-5 times per wits, an Opelika Alabama PD. I was out for a few an woke up to find myself sliding upside down in the divider. The kid that hit me in the r/r was speeding per all wits and driving erratic. OPD officers had issue with his version at the site. The thought never entered my mind to sue Ford, and I was quit pissed at the lawyers I had to retain for even bringing that up, Ford was not involved in the stupid-ness of 23yo kid an did nothing wrong. </div></div>

What about your insurance company suing the 23 year old kid under theories of negligence? Or did the thought not cross your mind that such a suit would involve tort claims? Products liability is NOT the only kind of tort claim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rez187</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
downzero since your post where you talked about law suits i realized your are a huge detriment to the gun community and i hope one day i am fortunate enough to write you a nice fat citation! its guys like you who give hard working Americans a bad name. if you dont like the holster dont buy it we dont need to hear your lame unintelligent arguments, i for one find them anti gun and very socialistic in nature......instead of banning the serpa lets ban your way of thinking. </div></div>

Let me get this straight:

1. I'm a detriment to the gun community by pointing out the flaws in a holster design that could result in an unnecessary, expensive, and painful accident to a user? Before you rant about how stupid someone is for shooting themselves, recognize that real people--some who could probably write a sentence in the English language (which you appear incapable of doing) have already injured themselves, and the Serpa is/was quite possibly a contributing factor.

2. I give hard working Americans a bad name? Is there any basis at all for that comment or was it just a personal insult?

3. My arguments are lame and unintelligent, yet you're the one hurling personal insults in a post that is void of nearly all sentence structure and full of grammatical errors? And even putting that aside, your post offers no rational basis to criticize my judgment.

4. My arguments are SOCIALISTIC in nature??!!? Just what does products liability, enforced by private individuals against other private firms, have to do with government ownership of the means of production? Please enlighten me, as I have a degree in economics and I thought I knew enough about the distinction between capitalism and socialism such that I would know it when I see it.

I hate to resort to pointing this out, but I'm pretty sure that if you filed a citation that included a report, it might possibly be so rife with errors that no prosecutor could make heads or tails of it. In fact, I read police reports all day long and I don't think I've ever seen one that was so void of facts and sentence structure as that "paragraph" you just wrote.

I bet you're the pride of your department and I'm sure you're an excellent witness on cross examination. You should tell your sergeant that he needs to give you an award for your excellent communications skills.

You guys, this has been an interesting and long thread, which has deviated quite a ways from discussions of the holster design. <span style="font-style: italic">Obviously </span>I don't think everyone's going to agree with me that the holster is unsafe. I actually would prefer it that people DO disagree, because if we all agreed, we wouldn't need a forum to discuss things. But seriously, I'm a <span style="font-style: italic">socialist </span>now because I think seatbelts should hold passengers in their seats, that bullet proof vests should protect their wearers, etc.? Sorry, but that's just not anything even close to resembling wise discussion. Expecting products to perform as intended and not be unreasonably dangerous has nothing to do with economic systems. Reasonable minds can differ about whether something is unreasonably dangerous or not, and I'm fine with that. That's why we have juries. Your peers will decide the facts of a hypothetical lawsuit. But hurling a barrage of personally-directed insults because my opinion is not in line with yours is just ridiculous. Seriously, grow up. The fact is that accidents happen, whether caused by human error or by other factors. If we could rid the world of stupid and accidents, we would do so. Where we strike the balance of safety is a decision that we, as a society, as members of this fine republic must do. You guys think the balance ought to be struck differently than me. That's fine. I don't agree. In fact, I think that deterring crippling accidents is almost as serious a social concern as is fighting crime.

Also, I have spent at least some portion of my professional career arguing against things just like I'm citing here. I don't think that the Corvair was "unsafe at any speed." I don't think that the Ford Pinto or the Chevy pickups from the 80s were dangerous. I don't think that a gun with a 3 lb trigger, or one without a mechanical active thumb safety, or without a magazine disconnect is unsafe. I don't think that every gun needs a loaded chamber indicator. I think that double action was a solution to a non-existent problem, etc.

Despite all of my thoughts on all of those other safety-related concerns, I do think that the Serpa is unsafe. I've outlined why--because I believe much safer reasonable alternative designs exist, period. Accordingly, I don't "like" the Serpa and no, I won't be buying one.
 
#153
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about your insurance company suing the 23 year old kid under theories of negligence? Or did the thought not cross your mind that such a suit would involve tort claims? Products liability is NOT the only kind of tort claim.</div></div>

Yet again you inserted your foot into mouth. Many Laws In Ill an Indiana won't pass muster in Alabama. My Insurance Co can't sue stupid, after his offers up the policy, among other things, in Alabama. I'll bet you even have issue with that, knowing your train of thought.

I could care less if you approve of the Serpa or not, one of the choices folks in this country have. They also have the right to whine an sue at the drop of a hat, for being stupid.

You as a leach of this nation have the right to voice your likes an dislikes, anywhere, anytime you want. Those who know how to use tools, an weapons properly an safely, have seen to that fact for you. When stupid is as stupid does, shoots their self yes again you have the right to try an blow smoke an pump sunshine up the ass of those chosen to set in the Jury box.
I am one of those who may or may not be called for rebuttal,...Now given the fact I'm dumn as a rock as to the subject matter at hand, I'm sure if you get your wish a different breed of witness you will face. I was taught when I was a kid, be very careful what you wish for.
Good advice, for sure,...because if you can't convince me and the others who chimed in I doubt convincing a Jury beyond a reasonable doubt is not going to work out for you either. But Bring that suit in Alabama, I'd be interested to see who pays the court cost's an legal fee's of who's side. I grew up in Porter County Indiana, but as soon as I could think for myself,...

Yet again, the can is on you side of the road,...

 
#155
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

I think your homemade drop leg Serpa is kind of cool and I bet it does function well for you.
I don't know what the laws in Alabama are but where I live open carry is legal. I'd be interested in the reaction you would get OCing that contraption. Probably works good for the games you play . Real life, not so much, I'm guessing. Do you wear it when you are at the grocery store or in the mall? How about just walking down to the local Stop- n- Rob?

The other thing I want to bring up is that you felt the need to ask me if because of my posts here I was seeking attention.
Let me turn that around on you. Aren't you really the one that is feeling so lonely and sorry for yourself in your old age and failing health that you need to spend the time and energy that you have in this thread, saying nothing of importance to anybody but you?

I'm embarassed for you because I still think you are probably a damn good man and I'm sure I would like you if I had the chance to meet you. Whether that feeling would be mutual or not won't keep me up worrying about it, so feel free to rip me up.
 
#156
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

To some people in the wrong hands a Car is an unsafe device,

If someone mistakenly feels the need to "push" the unlocking lever on the Serpa instead of letting the finger align along the frame simply touching the lever, how is that any different than applying too much gas to the accelerator in your car and crashing out of control. I saw a Viper smashed to pieces 50 yards from the on ramp because the idiot driving it mashed the gas and lost control. Same thing applies here.

The Serpa is designed to use a minimal amount of pressure and to line the finger up with the frame not the trigger. The fact people curl their finger in to the trigger is not a function of the holster but one of a person trying to beat an imaginary clock to the target. Speed is unsafe to anyone untrained to move so, with a number of things, cars, hammers, guns...

I hate to tell you, people shoot Glocks into their legs all the time re-holstering the pistol with their finger in the trigger guard. This is not a Serpa problem but a people problem. Re-holster your Glock pushing it into any holster with your finger on the trigger and guess what happens. BOOM !

You;re argument is deeply flawed.
 
#157
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To some people in the wrong hands a Car is an unsafe device,

If someone mistakenly feels the need to "push" the unlocking lever on the Serpa instead of letting the finger align along the frame simply touching the lever, how is that any different than applying too much gas to the accelerator in your car and crashing out of control. I saw a Viper smashed to pieces 50 yards from the on ramp because the idiot driving it mashed the gas and lost control. Same thing applies here.

The Serpa is designed to use a minimal amount of pressure and to line the finger up with the frame not the trigger. The fact people curl their finger in to the trigger is not a function of the holster but one of a person trying to beat an imaginary clock to the target. Speed is unsafe to anyone untrained to move so, with a number of things, cars, hammers, guns...

I hate to tell you, people shoot Glocks into their legs all the time re-holstering the pistol with their finger in the trigger guard. This is not a Serpa problem but a people problem. Re-holster your Glock pushing it into any holster with your finger on the trigger and guess what happens. BOOM !

You;re argument is deeply flawed. </div></div>

Well you are the Commandant but no, my (and others) arguments are not deeply flawed. See our arguements are just like yours, Frank. Informed opinions.
I know this thread is really good for the site but in my opinion (even though you may think it is deeply flawed) this thread has run it's course and should be locked.
 
#158
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To some people in the wrong hands a Car is an unsafe device,

If someone mistakenly feels the need to "push" the unlocking lever on the Serpa instead of letting the finger align along the frame simply touching the lever, how is that any different than applying too much gas to the accelerator in your car and crashing out of control. I saw a Viper smashed to pieces 50 yards from the on ramp because the idiot driving it mashed the gas and lost control. Same thing applies here.

The Serpa is designed to use a minimal amount of pressure and to line the finger up with the frame not the trigger. The fact people curl their finger in to the trigger is not a function of the holster but one of a person trying to beat an imaginary clock to the target. Speed is unsafe to anyone untrained to move so, with a number of things, cars, hammers, guns...

I hate to tell you, people shoot Glocks into their legs all the time re-holstering the pistol with their finger in the trigger guard. This is not a Serpa problem but a people problem. Re-holster your Glock pushing it into any holster with your finger on the trigger and guess what happens. BOOM !

You;re argument is deeply flawed. </div></div>

Well you are the Commandant but no, my (and others) arguments are not deeply flawed. See our arguements are just like yours, Frank. Informed opinions.
I know this thread is really good for the site but in my opinion (even though you may think it is deeply flawed) this thread has run it's course and should be locked.</div></div>

Please first off, I was not talking to you, and second you are the last person I am taking advice from -- there is absolutely no reason to lock this thread.
 
#159
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

zero cites do not require reports smart guy.

folks the enemy is among us!

the left has infiltrated but they just cant keep their whiny mouths shut long enough to hide (worried about grammar in a post, what a t#@d).
 
#164
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

I actually watched a video with a sound explanation on why the issue with the Serpa happens, tends to be with people with longer fingers, as well as those who pull up before laying their finger down.

In his video he showed that people with longer fingers generally curl it because the release is below the joint, more in the middle of the finger, and not at the pad. For me the Serpa falls on my pad, so it's a no brainer to work.

But i can see his point, where someone would think they need to curl their finger to unlock it. It sort of becomes a sizing issue, kind of like wearing a pair of pants that don't fit and I can follow that line of logic. You stick you leg in and rip the pants, in that case, you should consider a different holster, but again that is no more the holsters fault than the pair of pants. If you're a 36 waist and you buy a pair of 28s, and then rip them, is that the pants fault ?
 
#166
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Does the fact that the locking mechanism is easily fouled by debris or that the plastic/screw foundation of the holster is a weak retention factor mean nothing at all to you ex-spurt operators? Explain how training overcomes that and please don't bore me with your SA BS. I'm talking mano y mano get down and dirty. Still love your holster? I'm bored and I tire of the mucho machismo of you know it alls. By the way Frank, you aint high of my list of advisors either. Deal?
 
#167
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Blow me...

In all my years using it, I have never had it fouled and become inoperable, and I have them on all of my kit and used them in conditions that break boltguns all the time, including tons of blowing dust and debris ...

If you find yourself rolling in the exact right size pea gravel to get in there on you, you're a better man than I am ... never once personally saw a Serpa Foul and not work. I have heard the stories, but never met an actual eye witness.
 
#168
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Actually there are steel anchors molded into the holster, where the three screws make the connection. I reckon it could be broke alright, just like anything else. Overall, it seems like a reasonably strong connection.

The whole retention idea is more of a delay, than 100% retention. It buys the individual some reaction time. That's about it, regardless of the holster make.

Hell, there isn't a safe that can't be opened surreptitiously, much less a holster.
 
#169
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blow me...

In all my years using it, I have never had it fouled and become inoperable, and I have them on all of my kit and used them in conditions that break boltguns all the time, including tons of blowing dust and debris ...

If you find yourself rolling in the exact right size pea gravel to get in there on you, you're a better man than I am ... never once personally saw a Serpa Foul and not work. I have heard the stories, but never met an actual eye witness.


</div></div>

I won't stoop to your level (lmfao). Suffice it to say that men of much greater stature than yours have learned this lesson the hard way. If you are inclined to have it proven to you the hard way, it could be easily arranged.
 
#170
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blow me...

In all my years using it, I have never had it fouled and become inoperable, and I have them on all of my kit and used them in conditions that break boltguns all the time, including tons of blowing dust and debris ...

If you find yourself rolling in the exact right size pea gravel to get in there on you, you're a better man than I am ... never once personally saw a Serpa Foul and not work. I have heard the stories, but never met an actual eye witness.


</div></div>

I won't stoop to your level (lmfao). Suffice it to say that men of much greater stature than yours have learned this lesson the hard way. If you are inclined to have it proven to you the hard way, it could be easily arranged. </div></div>

That sort of language would be uncalled-for even if you weren't talking to Frank.

Let's not make this personal. It's not. After all, it's just a hunk of plastic.
 
#171
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually there are steel anchors molded into the holster, where the three screws make the connection. I reckon it could be broke alright, just like anything else. Overall, it seems like a reasonably strong connection.

The whole retention idea is more of a delay, than 100% retention. It buys the individual some reaction time. That's about it, regardless of the holster make.

Hell, there isn't a safe that can't be opened surreptitiously, much less a holster.</div></div>

They're not that strong. Anyone who wants to can rip them off you.

http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1042315#post1042315
 
#173
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Salesman who has had a bit of rangetime and alot of lean on the counter time sees it from the equipment side and apparently with no real experience on just what it takes to ND using the serpa. Oh, least we forget, he feels his RO time gives him the ability to speak even if he never used a serpa and apparently never saw one fail.

</div></div>
Is that me you're referring to? lol

I had a serpa back when I had a 1911 (before I really learned to shoot). I ditched it as it stuck out like a boner in sweat-pants on me and went to a leather pancake holster that held the gun in closer.

I had one for a Glock 26 that a guy threw in on a trade. When a co-worked broke his holster belt loop, I gave him the plate off mine as I had no interest in using it.

We did plenty of returns on the holsters for broken parts. The paddle would frequently snap at the top, and I've seen the spring shit on them too. When that happens, you have a gun-bucket - zero retention.

If seeing numerous fingers fly into trigger guards from SERPA users who never did it in slow practice isn't enough to see the problem, I'm not sure what else you want to see.

At speed, when people rush (who ever rushes when they need their weapon for real though?! That's GOTTA be user error if someone rushes their draw in a gunfight, right?) fingers slap into that trigger guard because of how you need to activate the release.

There is no sense in trying to argue with people who have made up their mind in this thread. I've wasted far too much time already on it. The evidence is there, there have been enough high profile ND's and schools banning them that people who are reasonable enough to admit they're not perfect, and that shit can happen to them too will pay attention.

Others will continue to say "it's a training issue" then declare to them self that they're so well trained that it's impossible for it to happen to them, even under significantly larger stress levels than those encountered on the range.

Everyone can decide for their self what the more reasonable conclusion to reach is.
 
#174
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...There is no sense in trying to argue with people who have made up their mind in this thread....Others will continue to say "it's a training issue" then declare to them self that they're so well trained that it's impossible for it to happen to them, even under significantly larger stress levels than those encountered on the range....</div></div>


I don't think I'm alone in saying I make my decisions and assesments based on personal experiences under stress levels that make any imaginable range scenario look like a day at the park.

I'm big on situational awareness. If there's going to be a gunfight, I'm not going to be the last to know.
 
#175
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gunfighter, you have a couple PMs. Let's take this out of the open forum. </div></div> Never read your pm's, anything/something/everything that/s started in the open, will end in the open. I don't do back room deals, I'm not a Lawyer, nor do I use a desk or title as a Chasity belt.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PRE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think your homemade drop leg Serpa is kind of cool and I bet it does function well for you.
I don't know what the laws in Alabama are but where I live open carry is legal. I'd be interested in the reaction you would get OCing that contraption. Probably works good for the games you play . Real life, not so much, I'm guessing. Do you wear it when you are at the grocery store or in the mall? How about just walking down to the local Stop- n- Rob?

The other thing I want to bring up is that you felt the need to ask me if because of my posts here I was seeking attention.
Let me turn that around on you. Aren't you really the one that is feeling so lonely and sorry for yourself in your old age and failing health that you need to spend the time and energy that you have in this thread, saying nothing of importance to anybody but you?

I'm embarassed for you because I still think you are probably a damn good man and I'm sure I would like you if I had the chance to meet you. Whether that feeling would be mutual or not won't keep me up worrying about it, so feel free to rip me up. </div></div>

Open carry, games an real life, that's a hoot. I'll roll all your answers about those into one. You have just failed the/a real test. Being the untrained person you are, here's just a nudge of a wake up call.
You noticed the drop leg in the open, but you failed to see the G27 in another Serpa that's right above it, with 2 backup G-35 mags in a mag carrier on my left side. Further more that's not the end of the tools for "the Game" as you put it. My family is coming/going home safe, period. And when they get there, my responsibility is still not over. If you don't believe what you just read, ask those that know me. I know your the type that would think ASM1 would lie for me,... news flash he's like others I trust 100% they will not lie for or about anyone. Better yet ask him to point you to others on here that know me, then ask them for others as well. Or you could read the info on the shirt I'm wearing, find out who owns that range(yes he's on here)an ask him. Many, folks here know him, this is where your ability's come into play. It's a smaller play ground, than you know. Hell, just go ahead an ask Frank(Lowlight, to you) to point him out.

I feel all warm an fuzzy now, that your worried for my health an age, an concerned enough to ramble on wasting, Frank's bandwidth.
The bulk of those here, who understand reading comprehension is a skill an not just a word,.... Twisting words is the first sign a person knows in their own mine they may have bit off more than they can chew.
 
#176
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well you are the Commandant but no, my (and others) arguments are not deeply flawed. See our arguements are just like yours, Frank. Informed opinions.
I know this thread is really good for the site but in my opinion (even though you may think it is deeply flawed) this thread has run it's course and should be locked. </div></div>

So Basiclly it's, I'm not getting my way teacher, make it/them go away. Then you come back later with, Hay Teach, Fuck you.

Problem could be, this play ground, is not for you.
 
#177
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

GF14E2 may be an Old Fart,bad shit happend to him,chewing you up would be a snack for him,He has alot of teeth most on his hip,some higher some lower,There gold looking 180 grain to boot nice teeth for an old one... If the Lights go out and the sky falls Well,lets say you and your Kind wont make the group meeting.. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think your homemade drop leg Serpa is kind of cool and I bet it does function well for you.
I don't know what the laws in Alabama are but where I live open carry is legal. I'd be interested in the reaction you would get OCing that contraption. Probably works good for the games you play . Real life, not so much, I'm guessing. Do you wear it when you are at the grocery store or in the mall? How about just walking down to the local Stop- n- Rob?

The other thing I want to bring up is that you felt the need to ask me if because of my posts here I was seeking attention.
Let me turn that around on you. Aren't you really the one that is feeling so lonely and sorry for yourself in your old age and failing health that you need to spend the time and energy that you have in this thread, saying nothing of importance to anybody but you?

I'm embarassed for you because I still think you are probably a damn good man and I'm sure I would like you if I had the chance to meet you. Whether that feeling would be mutual or not won't keep me up worrying about it, so feel free to rip me up.
</div></div>
 
#178
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

That Reminds me LL once upon a Time,,,,,When we where young my dad said son when Moma gets a new car you can have the vette when you get your license next year.. OMG I was a whole year dreaming of all the ASS i was going to load up....But My sister ran that 1976 stingray up and off I59 ramp and it jumped the other side,Hit a tree blows shit every where,,She said the brake wouldnt stop it while she was mashing the gas to the floor .If only she had a serpa on here head,I would have been driving a 1976 stingray when I was 16 over a 1978 lincoln 4 door silver ship.....
Point is It takes an action to make a reaction,Sometimes a Dumd ass is needed to get the worst Reaction ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To some people in the wrong hands a Car is an unsafe device,

If someone mistakenly feels the need to "push" the unlocking lever on the Serpa instead of letting the finger align along the frame simply touching the lever, how is that any different than applying too much gas to the accelerator in your car and crashing out of control. I saw a Viper smashed to pieces 50 yards from the on ramp because the idiot driving it mashed the gas and lost control. Same thing applies here.

The Serpa is designed to use a minimal amount of pressure and to line the finger up with the frame not the trigger. The fact people curl their finger in to the trigger is not a function of the holster but one of a person trying to beat an imaginary clock to the target. Speed is unsafe to anyone untrained to move so, with a number of things, cars, hammers, guns...

I hate to tell you, people shoot Glocks into their legs all the time re-holstering the pistol with their finger in the trigger guard. This is not a Serpa problem but a people problem. Re-holster your Glock pushing it into any holster with your finger on the trigger and guess what happens. BOOM !

You;re argument is deeply flawed. </div></div>
 
#179
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There gold looking 180 grain to boot nice teeth for an old one... </div></div>
The 10 lower are 165gr H/P's, loaded past afterburner.
Don't want to have to explain my side again, to any DA/Jury not from Fla or Bama,... but that beats the hell out trying to explain my views to the coroner,... not going home or watching a loved one fall.
 
#180
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There gold looking 180 grain to boot nice teeth for an old one... </div></div>
The 10 lower are 165gr H/P's, loaded past afterburner.
Don't want to have to explain my side again, to any DA/Jury not from Fla or Bama,... but that beats the hell out trying to explain my views to the coroner,... not going home or watching a loved one fall.

</div></div>

OMG so not only are you using an "UNSAFE" Serpa but you carry handloads too. The Horror!!!
 
#181
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Ive had a Serpa holster mounted diagonally on my flight vest for the last 10 Months in the Sinai desert, And after countless dust landings it still works flawlessly. Use as prescribed and it will do its job.
 
#182
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

What I saw was +p <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Neoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There gold looking 180 grain to boot nice teeth for an old one... </div></div>
The 10 lower are 165gr H/P's, loaded past afterburner.
Don't want to have to explain my side again, to any DA/Jury not from Fla or Bama,... but that beats the hell out trying to explain my views to the coroner,... not going home or watching a loved one fall.

</div></div>

OMG so not only are you using an "UNSAFE" Serpa but you carry handloads too. The Horror!!! </div></div>
 
#183
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I saw was +p </div></div>

You better than most know, Catfish, Snakes an the dreaded night attacking Squirrel's, get damn big around here.
 
#184
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

I've been mostly ignoring this thread for a while. It’s hot outside and I'm stuck on a base flanked by the ghetto so I just sat down and read most of this diatribe. Time to give it a go.

To start with several people have brought up the Tex Guber Outdoors incident. For God's sake he wasn't using a Serpa he was using a 5.11 thumb drive. Please stop referring to this as evidence against the Serpa.

BREAKING NEWS: Amy Winehouse is dead.

Back on track.

Several posts have cited how multiple "respected" training facilities have banned these holsters because they are unsafe. While I do agree that these holsters have in fact been banned I would say it is naive to throw out the blanket statement that they have been banned because they are unsafe. Although I am sure some instructors do feel they are unsafe the possible reasons for the other facilities could be numerous. It could be anything from a preemptive ban due to fear of a lawsuit or the unwillingness of an instructor to ensure the student has a proper working knowledge and prior training with this platform. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that most civilian training programs are compressed due to the time constraints of those that can afford to pony up the cash.

Training. Lets beet a dead horse. In August of 1998 I spent an entire week laying in the grass under the Carolina sun pointing an M16 at a 55 gallon drum with tiny little targets painted all over it. It was called grass week and every marine recruit did it before ever sending a live round down range. The pain of sitting in each position for hours on end was severe. But it beat getting caught slacking and having your drill instructor toss your ass in the sand. I think we can all agree that muscle memory is king when it comes to training.

Some posters, on both side of the argument have pulled some statistics out of what I would call thin air. I don't know the actual statistics so I'm not going to throw anything that I would say are actual numbers out there. However, If 1% of the people that purchased these holsters had problems with them I think the complaints we hear on the internet would be a little more prevalent. But then again, let’s cut through all the people who buy them and set them in the closet next to the pistol they never really carry. What percentage of Serpa buyers would you say that is? On second thought Lets just throw this argument out on both sides. I am not even going to attempt to argue stats that I am pulling out of my ass.

Down Zero - You keep bringing up the fact that no one has brought up evidence to refute the fact that this is an unsafe design. No evidence, I am not a lawyer and in my humble opinion nothing is safe but only associated with certain degrees of relative safety. So here is my arguement... Ephedrine and the Military.

Before Ephedrine was ever made illegal/banned (whatever its legal status is) here in the United States it was a banned substance in the military. While I was stationed in Okinawa there were two marines that had heart attacks after taking the stuff. One was a young man who thought that taking a double dose would pick up his performance on the PFT. The second was a Major who simply took the regular dose and went out for a nice run. Shortly after the second incident products with ephedrine were pulled from the shelves in the PX's but people could still get a hold of the product through other means. A few years later I was stationed back at Parris Island and I knew several drill instructors that were pretty much ephedrine junkies. The Military finally had enough of it and put an out and out ban on it. This was long before the FDA pulled ephedrine from the shelves.

What does this have to do with the Serpa? Take a look at Iraq and Afghanistan. They are everywhere. Not only are they everywhere, as soon as they hit the shelves in the PX they are gone. You seem like a smart guy, but if you need any more explanation on my train of thought let me know.

3per - you haven't made any logical arguments throughout the entirety of this thread. And that all I have to say about that.
 
#185
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bjdm151</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To start with several people have brought up the Tex Guber Outdoors incident. For God's sake he wasn't using a Serpa he was using a 5.11 thumb drive. Please stop referring to this as evidence against the Serpa.</div></div>



Did you even watch the video? Did you listen to what he said?

You are aware that the Thumb Drive isn't even made for 1911's, right?

Next time you want to lash out, try to get your facts straight, first.
 
#186
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

My bad. I didn't catch that right. Whatever. It had ben a while since I watched the video. I can only strive to be as perfect as you. And I had no idea they didn't make a thumb drive for a 1911. I don't own a 1911 so I don't really care.
 
#187
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bjdm151</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To start with several people have brought up the Tex Guber Outdoors incident. For God's sake he wasn't using a Serpa he was using a 5.11 thumb drive. Please stop referring to this as evidence against the Serpa.</div></div>



Did you even watch the video? Did you listen to what he said?

You are aware that the Thumb Drive isn't even made for 1911's, right?

Next time you want to lash out, try to get your facts straight, first.</div></div>

The question is "Did you listen to what he said?" Yes, you, JimD. Tex stated in his video that it wasn't the fault of the holster. IT WAS HIS FAULT. In the slow motion segment, I clearly saw his finger go into the trigger guard after the gun had cleared the holster. That is not the fault of the Blackhawk Serpa. <span style="text-decoration: underline">No question about it, it was SHOOTER ERROR.</span> The way he drew and fired it would/could have happened with any holster.

As far as the plastic breaking I've yet to see anyone come up with a reason why Blackhawk Kydex breaks and other manufacturers 'kydex' holsters don't? I'm betting somewhere along the line they all use a common supplier for the raw material/sheets they use to mold out the holsters with.

Again, I have NO kydex holsters, I just don't see blaming holsters for mishandling issues.
 
#188
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

First off, MontanaMarine, I call dibs on your gear after you complete your dual self amputation.

Second, you can tell when a thread has jumped the shark cause the e-thuggery breaks out.....
 
#189
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bjdm151</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To start with several people have brought up the Tex Guber Outdoors incident. For God's sake he wasn't using a Serpa he was using a 5.11 thumb drive. Please stop referring to this as evidence against the Serpa.</div></div>



Did you even watch the video? Did you listen to what he said?

You are aware that the Thumb Drive isn't even made for 1911's, right?

Next time you want to lash out, try to get your facts straight, first.</div></div>

The question is "Did you listen to what he said?" Yes, you, JimD. Tex stated in his video that it wasn't the fault of the holster. IT WAS HIS FAULT. In the slow motion segment, I clearly saw his finger go into the trigger guard after the gun had cleared the holster. That is not the fault of the Blackhawk Serpa. <span style="text-decoration: underline">No question about it, it was SHOOTER ERROR.</span> The way he drew and fired it would/could have happened with any holster.

As far as the plastic breaking I've yet to see anyone come up with a reason why Blackhawk Kydex breaks and other manufacturers 'kydex' holsters don't? I'm betting somewhere along the line they all use a common supplier for the raw material/sheets they use to mold out the holsters with.

Again, I have NO kydex holsters, I just don't see blaming holsters for mishandling issues.</div></div>

Yes, I did, but I don't agree with him, or your opinion.

Too many people have shot themselves with that holster, alone. The SERPA mechanism is why.

Find me some examples of guys shooting themselves on the draw with a Safariland ALS or SLS holster.

As for the durability, look at how the plate and how the holster body joins it.
 
#190
Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bjdm151</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To start with several people have brought up the Tex Guber Outdoors incident. For God's sake he wasn't using a Serpa he was using a 5.11 thumb drive. Please stop referring to this as evidence against the Serpa.</div></div>



Did you even watch the video? Did you listen to what he said?

You are aware that the Thumb Drive isn't even made for 1911's, right?

Next time you want to lash out, try to get your facts straight, first.</div></div>

The question is "Did you listen to what he said?" Yes, you, JimD. Tex stated in his video that it wasn't the fault of the holster. IT WAS HIS FAULT. In the slow motion segment, I clearly saw his finger go into the trigger guard after the gun had cleared the holster. That is not the fault of the Blackhawk Serpa. <span style="text-decoration: underline">No question about it, it was SHOOTER ERROR.</span> The way he drew and fired it would/could have happened with any holster.

As far as the plastic breaking I've yet to see anyone come up with a reason why Blackhawk Kydex breaks and other manufacturers 'kydex' holsters don't? I'm betting somewhere along the line they all use a common supplier for the raw material/sheets they use to mold out the holsters with.

Again, I have NO kydex holsters, I just don't see blaming holsters for mishandling issues.</div></div>

Yes, I did, but I don't agree with him, or your opinion.

Too many people have shot themselves with that holster, alone. The SERPA mechanism is why.

Find me some examples of guys shooting themselves on the draw with a Safariland ALS or SLS holster.

<span style="font-weight: bold">As for the durability, look at how the plate and how the holster body joins it.</span> </div></div>

I don't own one of either/any kind of kydex/plastic. Unless you can describe it or show pics I will have to get back to this thread with what I see is or isn't a design flaw in the way they hold/control the holster to the belt.

In the meantime, do you have any information on the use of different plastics by the manufacturers.

Also, I am assuming the biggest thing you take issue with this holster is the fact that the release is down on the body. How is that better than a thumb-drive that may knock your safety off? Having your safety off and a finger on the trigger seems like a sure way to make it go off.
 
#191
NEWS FLASH

I shot a USPSA match today with my Beretta using a CQC

I DIDN'T SHOOT MY SELF IN THE ASS

Also didn't get kicked off the range for putting my finger in the trigger guard until I was ready to shoot.

Lots of other CQC's out there, they didn't shoot themselves either
 
#192
Re: NEWS FLASH

This is beginning to sound like the old Sonny & Cher song, "The Beat Goes On"

I picked up a new G-24 last week, run it from my G-27 Serpa. Now I am lower than whale shit, compared to the High Profiles that shot their-selfs,...but I've put 1500 rds down range with said set up, with over 1000 draw/bangs, and still can't seem to force finger to trigger prior to weapon passing the 45* plane on the way to the target. Then again I was trained buy Uncle long ago, never studied up on the subject while in a Holiday Inn Express or put stock in folks who break a basic safety rule,...which includes sweeping your backup on National TV.

In every profession, life skill class, school, university ect, when the final test for the wall hanging eye candy/chest beating paper badge is given there is a top an bottom feeder within that class. The paper says they are the same, but I think not. I know lots of folks that have "Paper", but when it's meat an potato time,...a "Paper" hanger I do not trust. In the shooting world, there are folks who wear plain jackets, or vests when shooting. Then you have those that wear, what I call Scare coats, you've seen them, all the patch's, schools, ect. That only works on FNG's when gaming a target, that can't/won't shoot back.

Grandson and I watched a video of an Ace fall down after a SI-GSW, Grandson wanted to know why he had shot his self, to which I replied, he was Boo'pped. Grandson wanted to know what Boo'pped was, to which I replied, the shooters mental ability's out ran his physical ability to control the weapon. Grandson is only 4,...Grandpa he was Boo'pped.

 
#194
Re: NEWS FLASH

Glad the lawyer is back in town, feel all safe now.

If you really want to dance, I'm game. Pulling shit out of your ass, ain't going to fly though, as you've tried that to this point an failed.

If you have a new tactic,... lets be seeing, whats you's gots, Lucy.


Can is on your side of the road,...again.
I've fresh shit kickers, an full of joy, so spew away,.....

 
#195
Re: NEWS FLASH

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are "patch's"?

Perhaps it was you who is the "paper hanger." I'm assuming the class was first or second grade.

Hooked on Phonics works wonders. </div></div>

And I'm assuming you have resorted to nitpicking on spelling because your argument is running thin. So I ask again. If the Serpa design is unsafe why is it still widely used in the military? It is also allowed for use in IDPA/USPSA/IPSC and whatever other shooting sports.
 
#196
Re: NEWS FLASH

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't own one of either/any kind of kydex/plastic. Unless you can describe it or show pics I will have to get back to this thread with what I see is or isn't a design flaw in the way they hold/control the holster to the belt.

In the meantime, do you have any information on the use of different plastics by the manufacturers.

Also, I am assuming the biggest thing you take issue with this holster is the fact that the release is down on the body. How is that better than a thumb-drive that may knock your safety off? Having your safety off and a finger on the trigger seems like a sure way to make it go off.</div></div>

The thumb drive is only made right now for Glocks.

Re:materials - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOBEJvMZ_f4
 
#197
Re: NEWS FLASH

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bjdm151</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are "patch's"?

Perhaps it was you who is the "paper hanger." I'm assuming the class was first or second grade.

Hooked on Phonics works wonders. </div></div>

And I'm assuming you have resorted to nitpicking on spelling because your argument is running thin. So I ask again. If the Serpa design is unsafe why is it still widely used in the military? It is also allowed for use in IDPA/USPSA/IPSC and whatever other shooting sports.</div></div>

The "military" spends most of their time carrying empty weapons with manual safeties on. Not exactly the most applicable carry mode to the average civilian.

Know what other holsters are popular in gun games? Fobus. Are they well made?
 
#198
Re: NEWS FLASH

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bjdm151</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are "patch's"?

Perhaps it was you who is the "paper hanger." I'm assuming the class was first or second grade.

Hooked on Phonics works wonders. </div></div>

And I'm assuming you have resorted to nitpicking on spelling because your argument is running thin. So I ask again. If the Serpa design is unsafe why is it still widely used in the military? It is also allowed for use in IDPA/USPSA/IPSC and whatever other shooting sports. </div></div>

He can't even use an apostrophe correctly yet he wants us to take his opinion on how to use a dangerous weapon? Sorry but it isn't that difficult. If someone can't express themselves correctly in English, I have serious doubts about their opinion.

I've yet to see anyone who knows what they are doing wearing a Serpa at a USPSA or IDPA match. I live in the USA and so I can't comment on IPSC, but considering many of their stages start with the gun unloaded, I'm sure they've got it figured out. When I was in the military, I was neither issued a pistol nor trained to use one, so I can't comment on that, other than to say that the pistol is not a Soldier's preferred killing tool.

And for the record, I am not a lawyer now, nor was I ever.
 
#199
Re: NEWS FLASH

If you are a pog you spend most you're time with an empty weapon.

Carried M9 in a serpa thigh rig on two deployments, first as a saw gunner doing mostly foot patrols. No breakage issues and never came anywhere close to shooting myself.

Second as a turret gunner most the deployment and the only issue I had was if you are wearing the holster the mag pouch at six o'clock the screws broke on it, not the plastic from sitting in the swing seat. Again didn't shoot myself with it.

If you shoot yourself with this holster it is 100% you're own dumbass fault.
 
#200
Re: NEWS FLASH

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bjdm151</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are "patch's"?

Perhaps it was you who is the "paper hanger." I'm assuming the class was first or second grade.

Hooked on Phonics works wonders. </div></div>

And I'm assuming you have resorted to nitpicking on spelling because your argument is running thin. So I ask again. If the Serpa design is unsafe why is it still widely used in the military? It is also allowed for use in IDPA/USPSA/IPSC and whatever other shooting sports. </div></div>

He can't even use an apostrophe correctly yet he wants us to take his opinion on how to use a dangerous weapon? Sorry but it isn't that difficult. If someone can't express themselves correctly in English, I have serious doubts about their opinion.

I've yet to see anyone who knows what they are doing wearing a Serpa at a USPSA or IDPA match. I live in the USA and so I can't comment on IPSC, but considering many of their stages start with the gun unloaded, I'm sure they've got it figured out. When I was in the military, I was neither issued a pistol nor trained to use one, so I can't comment on that, other than to say that the pistol is not a Soldier's preferred killing tool.

And for the record, I am not a lawyer now, nor was I ever. </div></div>

Your so easy to bait, it's not even close to being a sport, but we'll press on anyway.

Seems your a lawyer want-a-bee, that's even worst.
From all the responses looks like the vote says the Serpa, seems not to be the SI-GSW problem. Your on the loosing side, but then again your only a Want-a-bee, so improvement is still within your reach as you train or school(your choice of words) up. Why do lawyers train up? They call it debating their views of the facts prior to court with cohorts. I call it training so they don't shoot their self's in the foot, funny how that word training, enters again don't you think.
Your the type who places 100% blind faith into a title or name plate on a door.

My "English" must be good enough as you seem to get my drift,... Also could be if, those that are doing the SI-GSW dance were to understand the words "Training an basic safety" they would not be running around saying "Fuck that hurt's, but it's my own fault. I was to stupid to read or follow basic firearm safety instructions, but my English is good,... so I's be more righteous an subject correct than thou.

Can is on your side of the road, but wait I see something coming,....
 
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