Bore patches absolutely will not come out clean :-(

[punkwood2k]

I'm pretty new to Long Range shooting, and thus long gun cleaning.. But my bore NEVER comes clean.. Can I get your opinions on my situation, please?

I am shooting a Savage Axis .308 (inexpensive but accurate starter rifle). I have put 338 rounds through it lifetime, and wet patch / dry patch after each range session (30-40 rounds), until the patches come out 99% clean. This time I decided to bronze brush it this time, and patches keep coming out dirty as heck. I wet patch with Hoppes #9 (wait 30 min), 10 strokes of the bronze brush, dry patch, and I am on my 30th cycle of this method.. Below are my first patch (LEFT), and latest patch (RIGHT), so you can see how dirty the patches still are.. Will this ever end?

However, before this deep cleaning project, the rifle was still shooting sub-MOA, so am I overly concerned about this?? Thanks

As info, the green patch wasnt that green when it first came out.. the patches seem to turn greener as they dry.. not sure why.

 

[thrusty]

Hoppes #9 is an mildly aggressive, (arguably) nasty smelling, copper removing, solvent.

Guess what the above will do to a bronze brush? It will eat it and leave traces in your bore giving you a false positive that there's copper still in the bore (or the gun is still dirty no matter how many times I stroke the bore with a bronze brush).

Switch to non-bronze or copper brushes...more specifically, nylon brushes when using copper removing solvents.

 

[Dan Newberry]

just hit the high spots... then let it soak when you put it away, then patch that out next time you go shoot... don't worry about getting every last tinge of whatever out of the bore.

 

[dbowhunter]

Join the video class and watch lowlights video on this exact topic. Is only 10 bucks a month and you could subscribe, watch all the videos in month and un subscribe. But after watching what's there, you'll pay with the 10 bucks to be sure you don't miss the next 'episode'

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk.

 

[Lowlight]

Ya, that is your barrel...

What do you think that solvent is sitting there eating for the 30 minutes you leave it too soak... When there is nothing for it to remove it will start in on the barrel.

 

[fx77]

BTW bronze is copper + tin

What is Bronze? (with pictures)

 

[Graham]

Will this ever end?

Not unless you use a nylon brush and wait only five minutes before running a dry patch.

 

[Cproflow]

Punkwood--step away from the cleaning solvents. You are killing your barrel with kindness.

I used to clean pretty much after every session...it just seemed to make sense. Then I found The Hide. Turns out my efforts were well-intentioned but almost counter-productive, and possibly damaging if taken to an extreme.

Give that pipe a good cleaning when accuracy drops off. For me that is somewhere north of ~250 rounds.
You will never get a 100% squeaky clean barrel...nor do you want to.

 

[punkwood2k]

Yeah, I've heard that many rifles will shoot better dirty.. Its one of those things that is PAINFUL to trust and let happen.. I am finally at the point where I consistently shoot sub-MOA, developed a couple loads that work nicely, and I wanted to start with a clean rifle, and log everything going forward, so I could verify the dirty = better ethos...

But seriously, that much Carbon? I'll just have to take you guys on faith, and lay off the scrubbing.. gonna be hard.. might need a support group or something..

 

[Deadshot2]

Ya, that is your barrel...

What do you think that solvent is sitting there eating for the 30 minutes you leave it too soak... When there is nothing for it to remove it will start in on the barrel.

Barrel cleaning solvents that turn blue/green aren't getting that color from barrel material. Just accumulated copper that's filling the "valleys" in the barrel groove finish.

A lot of the issues will center on how rough the bore was to begin with. A factory finish that was merely button cut and screwed on an action? Or a custom, hand lapped, bore that when looked at under 5X magnification with a bore-scope that shows no individual scratch marks at all?

If I had a bore that was continuously bleeding copper like the OP's I first invest in some nylon brushes and non-bronze jags. Would also get some foaming bore cleaner like the Gunslick Bore Cleaner. Also, don't overlook the chamber area, particularly the "second shoulder" where bullet jacket material can be scraped off during the chambering process.

I have three rifles with three different types of rifling. One was hammer forged and I haven't seen a smoother bore on a rifle out of the box. Didn't copper foul at all. Only way I could get "blue" on the patch, even using Sweet's, was to use a bronze brush or jag.

Second rifle was "single point rifled" and not lapped. Copper was a real issue. If I didn't clean it out regularly pressures grew with my loads. Clean it and the pressure was gone.

Third rifle has a custom barrel. Button Cut rifling, hand lapped twice (once when reamed, once after rifled). Again, back to NO Copper fouling.

As I said, it all depends on the barrel finish and the tools used.

 

[secondofangle]

As an obsessive compulsive anal retentive cleaner of just about everything (motorcycle has been washed 6 times since returning from Alaska 2 months ago and I'm almost satisfied now), I have been in the OP's shoes, and have seen all the different religions about this, from the "no clean till inaccurate" to the 50 BMG shooters who use STAINLESS STEEL BRUSHES AND HARSH SOLVENTS on their custom rigs. I don't do that. Nor do I brush with solvent. I brush with Kroil or CLP with a carbon rod. Then I patch with Butch's Bore Shine and Dry patch then start the process over. And like the OP, whenever I return to brushing, the next patch is dirty......unless.......

Unless I use Iosso bore paste or Shimichrome or some kind of "non abrasive" bore paste. After 10 passes with that on a tight fitting patch, usually the next clean patch will come out RELATIVELY clean even after brushing again with Kroil. If it doesn't, the next Iosso 10 pass does the trick.

I mostly shoot magnum calibers and have few guns with more than 1000 rounds down them. But I have never "cleaned a barrel to death."

Whether I'm wasting my time is another issue that is up for debate.

But the thought that you're going to wear out a barrel cleaning it just doesn't pass the sniff test. Go get a piece of steel and measure it with some good calipers to 1/10000th inch. Sit down with your bronze brush next time the game is on and brush away and remeasure. I doubt anybody can, brushing with bronze, cause a measurable wearing down of steel in the fashion that is being surmised.

 

[Smooth73]

Just to jump in on this, I clean after every trip to the range whether I shot 20 rounds or 200 and have never had an issue. With that said I think there is more to using a proper consistent method than how often or how little you clean it.

If the gun is real bad (i.e., 1000 rounds of real dirty crap ammo) at the end of the day, then I would usually spray it down with Gunblaster first, Not a lot though.

Then I run an oiled patch down the barrel. then another clean oiled patch, again not super heavy on the oil but enough to be absorbed by the patch.

Then I run a bronze brush through two, maybe three times at the most. Then another clean oiled patch. Follow that with clean dry patches until bore is clean. If the rifle is to be stored for some time, then a very lightly oiled clean patch. Done. You should rarely have to do more than this to the bore/chamber.

The key is the oil patch at the end for finish. if you use too much oil, you will typically have a very bad "fouling" shot for your first shot afterward. It will also collect contribute to collecting more residue, thus a very dirty bore at the end....and you're back to where you were when you started.

Hope this helps

 

[Deadshot2]

Sit down with your bronze brush next time the game is on and brush away and remeasure. I doubt anybody can, brushing with bronze, cause a measurable wearing down of steel in the fashion that is being surmised.

In reality the bronze brush will wear before the steel even shows a mark.

One thing to note, it's imperative to pay close attention to cleaning rod cleanliness, especially the coated ones. The soft coatings can get pieces of grit embedded in them and next thing you know you have scratches on the "bore" (small dia of barrel ID). Next time that Dewey rod gets dropped on the floor at the range, remember that.

 

[Lowlight]

I have seen people over clean and greatly reduce their barrel life... A 308 that needed to be replaced around 5k rounds and it was mainly due to cleaning where my last 308 barrel replacement was at 12k rounds...

Overcleaning is worse than shooter it every week.

 

[punkwood2k]

So the majority consensus here seem to be "Patch it a couple times, maybe a couple strokes with a brush, oil it and shelf it.." Leaving the carbon in the rifling is a good thing, or at least, less detrimental than scrubbing the heck out of it?

 

[J-ROD]

Lowlight, what was the accuracy of that barrel after 5k rounds, up to say 10k? Handloads or factory ammo? Just curious.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[Deadshot2]

Lowlight, what was the accuracy of that barrel after 5k rounds, up to say 10k? Handloads or factory ammo? Just curious.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Can't speak to Lowlight's experience but my last .308 bbl made it over 10K with sub 1/2 MOA accuracy using handloads. Only reason I replace the barrel was a moment of Cranial Rectal Inversion on my part. I forgot to remove a laser boresighter I'd been using to set up a chronograph. Sent it downrange with a 175 gr "booster" (got 700f fps too ). This stupid act caused a ring to form right where the end of the "spud" sat. Accuracy kind of went away with POI moving 2" right and up at 100 yards. Group sizes increased to around 2" at 100Y as well.

If this hadn't happened I am guessing there were at least another 5-6K left in that barrel (a hammer forged 5-R).

Yeah, I'm admitting my stupidity on a public forum but if I'm going to tell my kids to "man up and accept your actions" I guess I have to do so myself. All the more reason to not let it happen again. Now I use a chamber mounted bore sighter when setting up my chronograph. Can't load and fire a round that way.

 

[Lowlight]

The rifle shot 1/2 minute or better with factory ammo, (don't hand load 308, waste of my time) it settled around 1" when I replaced it, and was tossing a flier out here and their.

Sniper's Hide Rifle #50 that is down at Rifles Only went 15k before being changed. It was still better than 1" MOA most of the time, but was missing 4" of rifling when swapped out. It might have had 10 real cleanings. Maybe...

Total number of patches I use when cleaning a rifle, wet patches, and dry is about 8 patches... I do about 4 strokes with the bore brush using a nylon brush, (bronze gives false indictors) and that is it. My one rule of thumb for solvents is, if you can't hold your nose over it, don't use it. I don't use harsh stuff, the worst is Shooter's Choice. And I especially don't leave it in the bore. Wet patch, wet brush, wet patch, dry -> Done nothing more needed. I am not in a humid area so i don't leave anything like oil in the bore either, if you do oil the bore for storage, dry it before shooting it.

 

[Graham]

Bore patches absolutely will not come out clean :-(

I use Shooters Choice and Kroil. I stay away from ammonia-based solvents like Sweets, but have had no issues with Shooters Choice. I use Kroil on a patch to get at the initial fouling, then Shooters Choice, a nylon brush to set it in the bore, leave it in the bore for three to five minutes, then dry patch and Kroil. That's it.

 

[wnroscoe]

Guys, stop worrying about a slight discoloration on the patch after cleaning. Brass Jags / Brushes will always leave a slight bluing on the patch no matter how clean your barrel is. More damage is done cleaning than shooting but there are a few rules to follow.

1. Stop cleaning after every range session. 1-200 rounds and clean is more than good enough
2. Only use a one piece coated rod like Dewey and a quality bore guide like the Mike Lucas
3. Use cotton flannel patches and brass core / bronze bristle brushes
4. Use a quality bore cleaner like Butches, Hoppes #9, Bore Tech eliminator etc.
5. Stop cleaning to bare barrel steel, it's not necessary
6. As a general rule;
a. wet patch and short strokes to remove loose fouling
b. wet brush 12-15 strokes in and out
c. wet patch to remove loose fouling
d. dry patch, 2-3 to dry
e. dry chamber
f. DONE!!!!!!

 

[wnroscoe]

I use Shooters Choice and Kroil.

When I shot molly this was the solvent mix of choice. Worked great. I use Butches now and haven't looked back.

 

[J-ROD]

Thanks Deadshot and LL for the response. Lol, good story deadshot, thanks for sharing.
I am ok with cleaning when accuracy falls off, after a few hundred rounds at a minimum, problem is I sometimes will go a month or two without shooting, the copper starts to oxidize and form a green goo in the barrel... Don't really want to put 60k psi in front of it so generally do a quick clean every range trip to be safe. Am I worried for nothing?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[Deadshot2]

the copper starts to oxidize and form a green goo in the barrel... Don't really want to put 60k psi in front of it so generally do a quick clean every range trip to be safe. Am I worried for nothing?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

I think you might want to look into two things. First, why you get that much copper in your barrel. Rough bore? Bullet type (barnes seem to copper foul for me) or powder type (too hot?). Second, corrosion on any metal is a sign of moisture. Perhaps a Desiccant Device in your safe/storage area?

Another option if you're shooting a .308 is CFE223. I use it exclusively in my SPS-Tactical .223 and have yet to see any copper fouling. Bought it new and have around 500 rounds through it.

 

[J-ROD]

Well it's a criterion barrel and honestly doesn't foul that much anymore, just that the skinny streaks of copper here and there seem to green up after a month or so. Gun is kept inside, humidity controlled, but I still may look into dehumidifier... Thanks.
I have loads for 2000mr, think it's the same as CFE, but it's too temp sensitive for 1k work from my testing....but I do like how clean it burns.
I do have a Lucas bore guide and rarely use a brush. I think I just need to shoot more often to keep from cleaning

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[Jig Stick]

A couple patches of Wipe Out + Accelerator or Butches Bore Shine is all you need.

 

[CowboyBart]

On my bad foulers, I have had the best luck with Gunslick Foaming Bore cleaner. I spray it in wait 5 minutes and patch it out. My 300 Wby requires this to be repeated, the 260 and 6.5-06 only require it once. After I push a nearly dry patch out I run a patch that is soaked in Tri-Flow or Rem Oil or another oil that has teflon in it. I find that using a teflon oil reduces clean up the next time to the range.
The OP may now have a rough bore, the green is from the brush. I have all but given up on brushes. The only time I use one is when I purchase a used rifle and don't know if X bullets, lead bullets or coated bullets were sent down the bore. Sometimes I end up cleaning a turd but other times I find a diamond in the rough!!

 

[punkwood2k]

So, do any of you EVER clean your bore down to the metal? Seems that everyone cleans it "good enough", but not actually "new barrel" clean.

 

[jdonovan]

So, do any of you EVER clean your bore down to the metal? Seems that everyone cleans it "good enough", but not actually "new barrel" clean.

Why do you clean a rifle... a few reasons.

Remove things that will cause damage if left to sit... much more an issue back in the days of black powder, and corrosive primers.. mostly a non-issue today unless you are running old surplus, which I'll ignore if we are talking precision rifles.

Remove build of of deposits that prevent proper function of moving parts... non issue in the bore of a barrel.

Restore accuracy. <----- this is most everyones goal here.

So if you've cleaned enough to restore accuracy, to desired levels, what's the value of cleaning beyond that?

Unless you've got a DI with white gloves, and a bore scope, stop when its clean enough to restore the accuracy you need.

 

[waste_knot]

What seems to make the most difference between my rifles is whether the bore is lapped of production. My Bartleins clean up with Hoppes and a couple of patches on a jag. The AAC SD takes a little more work.

 

[tanker1509]

I used hoppes 9 for years. I just started using a new solvent that works great, bore tech. They make a copper solvent and a carbon solvent i suggest getting both. The nylons brushes that many others here have suggested are easier on your barrel and both give false readings. Lowlights video is short money compared to damaging a barrel, crown or camber. The online training is worth the ten bucks for that one video and there is much more good info available. Hope this helps

 

[T2CH]

To OP (and the rest), you realize that not cleaning after each range session you are layering the carbon and the copper in the bore. Therefore when you clean it takes more effort to get it clean. You have to clean one and then the other until it is clean. Powder turns to carbon after about 10 days, Solvents will not remove carbon, some do better than others but they will not remove it completely, you have to use a paste that removes it mechanically.

If you don't use a brush, how do you get the copper and carbon out of the bottom of the lands? I've tried nylon brushes and the fact is they just are not strong enough to remove the stuff. (Yes we bore scoped it to see)

I'll listen to the man who made my barrel, rifled it and lapped it. I clean it within 10 days of shooting, completely. Copper is removed every so often but that's because it does not copper foul like factory barrels. Both my .308 and .260 have no impact shift with the clean cold bore shot, I've seen and done it. My .308 has around 5K on it and will go 10K easily.

Fact is every barrel is different and each is made differently even from the same maker.

 

[Deadshot2]

T I clean it within 10 days of shooting, completely.

If I were to use that criteria I'd probably never completely clean my barrel. I never go longer than 4 days without shooting my rifle

I've been using the Gunslick Foaming Bore cleaner for years now. A couple of strokes with a nylon brush to "dust out" the bore, followed by a dry patch, then a 30 minute soak with the foam. One patch pushes out the "mud" and two or three dry patches to finish the job. About twice a year I use some J-B Bore Bright to give the bore a little Polish but that's about it. The barrel was so smooth from the barrel maker it just doesn't copper foul. On my factory barrels the Gunslick does a great job of removing copper without a bunch of scrubbing or use of a harsh copper killer like Sweet's.

Sometimes I will check for copper using a q-tip and Sweets. Swab the muzzle area and look for "blue" on the q-tip.

For those who have a rough factory barrel it might be worth the effort to have someone lap the bore. Even some work with the Bore-Bright could help polish it out and reduce copper fouling.

 

[sinister]

If you're not visually checking the condition of the bore with your own eyeball (using a bore scope) you're just guessing, especially with a factory barrel.

You could have powder fouling between lands (especially since the OP doesn't typically use a bronze brush) or you could have nasty tool marks with fouling "Evening" out rough texture. If the barrel has bad heat cracking there'll be carbon within the cracks.

Examples of nasty bores and throats:

 

[Abq-Defense]

Lowlight,

Does this hold true for barrels with a suppressor on them? I notice that my 6.5 creedmoor barrel w/suppressor gets MUCH hotter than my 338lm barrel unsuppressed. I am wondering of gunk gets caked in the barrel because of the much higher heat?

 

[krw]

I think one point being overlooked is shooting factory bbls vs custom hand lapped bbls. When I started out with Rem VS rifles I could never clean one till I got a very clean patch. After I went to custom rifles with hand lapped match grade bbls, then the cleanup was a lot simpler and easier. I think the "roughness" on a factory bbl it is impossible to clean as they hold copper and solvent.

 

[Deadshot2]

I think the "roughness" on a factory bbl it is impossible to clean as they hold copper and solvent.

Not all "factory barrels" are rough like the pics posted earlier. The one that looked like it had "bulldozer track marks" was probably a button cut barrel and he machine had a lousy hydraulic system (or worn button). Companies like Remington and Sako are now Hammer Forging barrels and they are as smooth as the mandrel the barrel is formed around. Usually as smooth as a hand lapped barrel

If you do have a rough barrel that fouls like mad then have it lapped. Even consider doing it yourself. Not that hard but requires patience. Results show up in future cleaning efforts. Some barrels are even "Fire Lapped" using 5 shot strings, each bullet having a progressively finer abrasive embedded in it.

 

[Deadshot2]

Double Tap

 

[Daniel069]

Ok here goes I had a factory tikka .308 and used to use hoppes 9 and had the same problem as you. One day I scrubbed the barrel 400 od times wore out two bronze brushes and patches still came out black!! If you let those patches sit for a while they will turn green hoppes is attacking the brush. I switched to boretech Carbon remover 10 od passes with a brush and black is gone! I now have a new barrel and clean every 5-600 rounds and am thinking of going longer cause I don't see an accuracy issue!

 

[Lowlight]

Ok here goes I had a factory tikka .308 and used to use hoppes 9 and had the same problem as you. One day I scrubbed the barrel 400 od times wore out two bronze brushes and patches still came out black!! If you let those patches sit for a while they will turn green hoppes is attacking the brush. I switched to boretech Carbon remover 10 od passes with a brush and black is gone! I now have a new barrel and clean every 5-600 rounds and am thinking of going longer cause I don't see an accuracy issue!

That is your barrel !

The black you are seeing is the steel, cleaners don't care what you feed it, if you feed it stainless steel it will eat stainless steel which looks black.

Your barrel is not that dirty... I use no more than 8 patches start to finish, and only 4 strokes with a nylon brush and they come out fine.

Over cleaning will ruin a barrel faster than shooting it.

 

[sinister]

About the worst that will come out of leaving an excessively copper-fouled barrel in a humid atmosphere is galvanic corrosion and pitting. Any moisture between a copper layer and steel will pit as the iron in the steel gives up an electron to water and any salts.

 

[Daniel069]

That is your barrel !

The black you are seeing is the steel, cleaners don't care what you feed it, if you feed it stainless steel it will eat stainless steel which looks black.

Your barrel is not that dirty... I use no more than 8 patches start to finish, and only 4 strokes with a nylon brush and they come out fine.

Over cleaning will ruin a barrel faster than shooting it.

Lowlight I cleaned the rifle the way you did in the video nylon brush and all and your 100% right I used 2 extra dry patches than you did and the bore is squeaky clean I'll never use a bronze brush again!

 

[Vinootz]

I always used Hoppes and cleaned after every day of shooting. Over the years I clean less and use various solvents. One way or another they all work. When my patches come out clean I know the firearm is clean. I avoid caustic solvents for the most part. If I think there may be
excessive copper build up then I’ll use a copper solvent. I’ve met a few guys that never clean their rifles(lol) and swear by it. Although I could never be that way it does seem like many people on these forums are making way too big a deal about cleaning. I’ve come to love spray CLP cleaners especially G96. It makes the process so much quicker and easier.

 

[ScottDWallace]

Just for reference, I clean my match rifle when the accuracy drops off. That is usually in the 350-400 range. And to be honest, I think the crown under the brake is the biggest accuracy detractor. The bore cleans up as fast as if I had only shot 20rds through it. With that said, it IS a Bartlien barrel and she is very smooth. A factory barrel will hold on to more copper (jacket scrapings), which could be argued is not necessarily a bad thing. Point is, don't over clean and stop once you have all the carbon out.

Less time cleaning = More time shooting!

 

[Strykervet]

White glove cleaning is the worst thing you can do for a rifle.

I use Parker Hale jags, Hoppes 9 and CLP. I also use a bronze bore brush, bronze is softer than a barrel so I'm not too worried about it. Soaking in Hoppes shouldn't take longer than an hour --start with the one end or the other such you won't be dragging or pulling shit from the chamber back into the barrel. Run a soaked patch through it, then a wet brush, then another wet patch. Let it sit.

Clean the rest of the rifle.

Go back, run a wet patch and then a wet brush through it again and follow that up with a couple wet patches, then a few dry patches, then a lightly oiled one and DONE. You wanna make sure you get all that Hoppes out of there though. Machineguns and heavy volume fire might need more work and they make shit like Sweets for that.

You CAN clean it with nothing but CLP and there's less risk of fucking anything up.

Then there's JB bore paste. I'm sorta torn on where it fits in and can't really say from experience that it's better or worse but I can say that it works well.

 

[Centuriator]

Holy necroposting Batman.

 

[PracticalTactical]

I can remember going into an ISU match some 20 years ago where we had to shoot 3 twenty round groups per day for two days with unlimited sighters.

I took my first shot and nailed it dead center and told the scoring guy that I was done with my sighters and all my next shots would be for score. Then I hit 3 5s in a row, just edging out of the bull. I finished the weekend dropping only those first 3 points. All 117 shots to follow were bulls on a 1 MOA bull from 300 meters using a 223. (They have since reduced the bull to 1/2 MOA BTW)

That was how I learned about over cleaning a barrel. I started the match with a squeaky clean barrel and it took those first 4 shots to settle down. What I should have done was shoot a few more just to let the barrel settle down after a good cleaning, then go for score.

I think of it this way... The copper bullet travels down a clean steel barrel with a certain level of resistance (coefficient of friction), but as the barrel gets that microscopic coating of coper after several shots, that coefficient of friction changes and becomes more stable. Actually more slippery.

At a certain point that coper and carbon will accumulate to where it will negatively affect accuracy, but until it does, all is well.

When I clean now, I no longer try to remove all traces of copper as that will just return the barrel to that "flyer" condition it was in at the start of that match. Plus it can cause more damage to the barrel than it could help.

Now I just give it a mild cleaning after maybe 2-300 rounds, mainly to remove carbon and heavy copper.

Some of you will probably cringee reading this next part... After maybe 2500 rounds, I may get aggressive and go after heat checking if the barrel seems to have lost something. Then I will short stroke some tight fitting 1500 grit scotch brite patches with kroil. That smooths things out again and it settles down again. Remember its 1500 grit and that is so fine that I don't believe it can hurt as long as it's not done often.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

One thing I seldom see in these "My cleaning process is better than yours" discussions is the cleaning rod and its impact on bore wear.

Cleaning rod straightness and bore clearance are more important than they would appear in these discussions.

Every metallic cleaning rod I have ever owned has eventually acquired a bend that contacts the bore walls and applies pressure and friction to it. Combustion products from primers results in glass micro crystals, which abrade bore surfaces.

The contact between rod and bore is accentuated if there is slop between the bore rod, and rod guide tip. The rod tips are sized to minimize rod clearance, and thereby minimize bore contact.

I eventually determined that I would switch to use carbon fiber bore rods exclusively. If they can acquire bends/bows, I've never seen it.

I've seen discussion that the carbon fiber rods texture can harbor abrasive particles, which could well be accurate. The use of rod guide tips which match up to rod diameters can make this into a non-issue by controlling rod/bore contact.

Greg

 

[PracticalTactical]

One thing I seldom see in these "My cleaning process is better than yours" discussions is the cleaning rod and its impact on bore wear.

Cleaning rod straightness and bore clearance are more important than they would appear in these discussions.

Every metallic cleaning rod I have ever owned has eventually acquired a bend that contacts the bore walls and applies pressure and friction to it. Combustion products from primers results in glass micro crystals, which abrade bore surfaces.

The contact between rod and bore is accentuated if there is slop between the bore rod, and rod guide tip. The rod tips are sized to minimize rod clearance, and thereby minimize bore contact.

I eventually determined that I would switch to use carbon fiber bore rods exclusively. If they can acquire bends/bows, I've never seen it.

I've seen discussion that the carbon fiber rods texture can harbor abrasive particles, which could well be accurate. The use of rod guide tips which match up to rod diameters can make this into a non-issue by controlling rod/bore contact.

Greg

You could always use that shrink fit tubing they sell to electricians and use it to coat an aluminum or steel rod. It's like a rubber straw, just slide it over and heat it up to shrink. If there's glue applied to the rod first, it would surely stay in place.

 

[Strykervet]

One thing I seldom see in these "My cleaning process is better than yours" discussions is the cleaning rod and its impact on bore wear.

Cleaning rod straightness and bore clearance are more important than they would appear in these discussions.

Every metallic cleaning rod I have ever owned has eventually acquired a bend that contacts the bore walls and applies pressure and friction to it. Combustion products from primers results in glass micro crystals, which abrade bore surfaces.

The contact between rod and bore is accentuated if there is slop between the bore rod, and rod guide tip. The rod tips are sized to minimize rod clearance, and thereby minimize bore contact.

I eventually determined that I would switch to use carbon fiber bore rods exclusively. If they can acquire bends/bows, I've never seen it.

I've seen discussion that the carbon fiber rods texture can harbor abrasive particles, which could well be accurate. The use of rod guide tips which match up to rod diameters can make this into a non-issue by controlling rod/bore contact.

Greg

I use the Dewey stuff mostly, they make good quality cleaning stuff and they make a LOT of different stuff. Only place that makes a quality, solid rod for the M2HB. The bore mopps for ARs (big and small) are great. Dewey rods will bend, they usually bend back unless you REALLY bend it. Typically this occurs when the rod is too long, like the ~40" 5.56 and 7.62 rods I use... I really need some rods for M4's and SBR's. Pistol rods are solid, same with bore mop rod (which ain't coated and doesn't spin). Dewey rods have a thick plastic coating so no metal touches the bore. In one instance it's obvious it rubbed against something (I suspect the lugs on the barrel ext.) and burred it up some. Quick touchup with a sharp knife and it was back to normal. Never had an issue using Dewey.

Then when I ordered a KAC SR25, it came with a whole bunch of shit and I got the cleaning kit w/bolt parts. Came with a carbon fiber cleaning rod and I gotta say, it's pretty nice. Only complaint is the handle doesn't spin on ball bearings like the Dewey. It's a bit stiff. But it's becoming one of my more favorites and I hope Dewey goes this route if they haven't already. CF makes a great cleaning rod.

For field stuff, what I do is get 1/4" nylon coated steel wire and I JB Weld a Dewey adapter to it and viola! A DIY pull through cleaning cable of whatever length you want. Gather the appropriate brush and eye loop patch holder and whatever else you want in your small field kit and you're GTG. They make small oil bottles and compact double end brushes, few other items and you have a whole custom kit the size of an Otis for 1/10th the cost.

Don't know if Dewey makes carbon fiber rods yet or CF coated metal ones (better/cheaper IMO) but it'd sure be nice.

Holy necroposting Batman.

Yeah, I didn't see that... Must've clicked on the last post and came directly here or something? Or maybe I just missed it. I don't look for dead threads but i tend to post in 'em if others do... I don't see anything wrong with it, a lot of threads that get repeated could just as well be resurrected instead. My .02 anyway.

 

[RTH1800]

Is this thread Mil or MOA? ?