Buddies 22 creed blew up…. Any ideas

[BadAccountant]

It may very well be. But none of us know if it is or not without testing it.

And using round count and group size to justify it is not the correct response.

I think what he's getting at is that the SRS has a barrel extension system similar to an AR, and the upper receiver does not have the job of containing pressure.

So when he says it isn't a normal receiver, he just means it isn't a critical component in that regard.

Like an AR, if that receiver fails, it's because something else is catastrophically wrong and aluminum isn't going to behave well anyway...

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Point being, unless you have actually done (or had done) proper testing of the structural integrity by an accredited testing facility (or are accredited), you cannot make absolute statements.

We can say “probably” “I think” “I’m pretty certain” all we want. But that is anecdotal and we all do that to a certain extent.

And, citing round count and group size is in no way remotely applicable to describing the integrity of an action.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

I think what he's getting at is that the SRS has a barrel extension system similar to an AR, and the upper receiver does not have the job of containing pressure.

So when he says it isn't a normal receiver, he just means it isn't a critical component in that regard.

Like an AR, if that receiver fails, it's because something else is catastrophically wrong and aluminum isn't going to behave well anyway...

I agree with this. Simple point being, the reasons cited are not remotely acceptable.

I can say “a bullet moves X amount in Y wind because it acts like a boat in water.”

The bullet movement is correct but the reason behind it is not. And therefore I would need to shore up my knowledge on the subject.

I could say “I’m not overpressure because the brass looks fine.” People say this all the time.

And I might actually not be over pressure. But I very well could be very dangerous.

 

[orkan]

Sure, reasons cited by dragon are not based in scientific principle… I agree. Though when you replace the bolt, extension, and barrel in a DT, you’ve replaced everything that I’ve ever seen damaged by up to nearly 180,000 psi. The chassis remained unaffected in every test.

Any traditional action… and you’re 100% correct. Though the DT is not remotely traditional.

In this instance, it would be like someone replacing their entire traditional barreled action with a new one and claiming they don’t know the new action is safe until they had it analyzed.

I hope that brings some clarity.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Hate to disappoint you, the rifle has 600 plus rounds through it since the incident. It shoots .3 moa groups with hot loads in both 6.5 PRC and 338 LM. The barrels change and repeat as well as ever. The barrel and extension, bolt, and plastic skins were destroyed and replaced.

Some people never learn.

 

[LeftyJason]

Some people never learn.

View attachment 7766122

And @Hoplite Arms Ammunition

This was dragoons incident from post 139. He was not the buddy with the 22 creed.

I blew up a rifle once with a load of my own.
New brass, very carefully loaded with exactly the right amount of power. (I checked the others, all right on) The loading manuals and Quickload showed the load to be hot but not maximum. The gun was salvageable, but the barrel, bolt, and stock were destroyed. I had/have shrapnel in my support hand and shoulder as well as the wall of my house from the case and bolt parts blown out the rear. Fortunately it was/is a DTA SRS-A1, and my face was not directly behind the bolt! I could not figure out why this happened. I checked everything, photographed every part, went over Quickload data and lost my confidence in my loading abilities. Then about a year later I was cleaning out the broken rifle parts, brass and powder from that incident and found the cause of the explosion. The can of powder that I used in those rounds was the right COLOR, but not the right NUMBER!
I could not believe I was stupid enough to do this! However, having found the reason for the mishap I was able to reload again with confidence in my process. And learned a valuable lesson on positive identification of components.
Maybe this can be of some help to others here.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

And @Hoplite Arms Ammunition

This was dragoons incident from post 139. He was not the buddy with the 22 creed.

We are aware.

He’s still talking about loading ammo hot after blowing up his DT.

 

[orkan]

That’s true. Yup it is.
…and that’s not a good idea with any platform.

 

[LeftyJason]

Just trying to make sure the same thing is being discussed. Might help cut down on idiotic responses from other people later. But then again that doesn't seem to work with certain types of people like the idiot later in the 50 blow up thread.

 

[Mike Casselton]

And @Hoplite Arms Ammunition

This was dragoons incident from post 139. He was not the buddy with the 22 creed.

Re: the wrong powder discovery.

I keep my powders in order of brand first, then by burn rate going left to right just like how we read.
A natural order.

Never in 33 years of reloading have I ever used the incorrect powder.

One and only one on the bench at a time and the container stays next to the measure until I'm done with it.
Same with primers.

The biggest mistake I ever made reloading was to accidentally grab 17 Caliber 25 grain V-Max by accident instead of the 20gr when I was loading for a 17 Hornet.

I had exactly one box of them. What are the odds?

5 grains in most other cartridges wouldn't have been any big issue.
In the 17 Hornet it was a 25% increase in bullet weight with a 12-ish grain powder charge
That's huge.

The results weren't pretty, but, thankfully the only damage was to the tiny brass.

The range was noisy and I didn't even notice a different sound signature.

Pulled the rest of the loads apart and the brass is on my shelf as a reminder to double check EVERYTHING.

 

[jakelly]

Just read this.

I move this load be called the “22 Slap” moving forward.

 

[Barelstroker]

This is scary.
It's obvious that the guy hasn't bothered to study any manuals or familiarize himself at all with any load data.
If he had, he would have noticed that AR2208 (Varget) is too fast a powder for a 22 cal 243 Win case size at anything near 35 grain let alone 44 grn.
We all make mistakes but, this was no mistake. This was negligence & ignorance brought about by a complete lack of respect for the possible consequences.
So now that he's learned respect, he has to work on the ignorance.

 

[Steel head]

Re: the wrong powder discovery.

I keep my powders in order of brand first, then by burn rate going left to right just like how we read.
A natural order.

Never in 33 years of reloading have I ever used the incorrect powder.

One and only one on the bench at a time and the container stays next to the measure until I'm done with it.
Same with primers.

The biggest mistake I ever made reloading was to accidentally grab 17 Caliber 25 grain V-Max by accident instead of the 20gr when I was loading for a 17 Hornet.

I had exactly one box of them. What are the odds?

5 grains in most other cartridges wouldn't have been any big issue.
In the 17 Hornet it was a 25% increase in bullet weight with a 12-ish grain powder charge
That's huge.

The results weren't pretty, but, thankfully the only damage was to the tiny brass.
View attachment 7766188

The range was noisy and I didn't even notice a different sound signature.

Pulled the rest of the loads apart and the brass is on my shelf as a reminder to double check EVERYTHING.

I almost had a boo boo in 2019/2020
Was loading 7 saum, grabbed a 8# from the shelf, saw a 6 and thought a 2 in front of it (R26) had about 25 cases loaded when I realized the jug was R16 for my 260.

60+ grains of R16 would have been kinda sporty!

 

[fdkay]

Speaking of 22 creed. How’s the barrel life normally?

In this case, 1 round

 

[fdkay]

Weight for weight, the solids/monolithics being less dense, will take up more volume. One or both of the following are by definition going to happen; 1) Closer to the lands, 2) More case intrusion (less case capacity). Both will boost pressure for an equal powder charge.

Other things that can (but not necessarily happen) are higher engraving forces, and the effects of a tighter-than-nominal bore can be exacerbated because they're not as "squishy" as lead core bullets.

To complicate this more, there are design characteristics that can flip to either side of "standard" cup&core. Engraving forces can be much higher, or much lower. Equal pressure may result in faster or slower velocity. It really depends on the driving band(s) or bearing surface, and the material & barrel being used.

ETA: So to your question.... Best bet is to try to find load data specifically for the bullet you're using. Otherwise, approach things cautiously. If it's a bullet that has a single driving band section, or a bullet that has greatly reduced full-diameter bearing surface(s), then you might be able to match or exceed cup&core velocities. If it's a traditional bearing surface, don't necessarily try to match equal weight cup&core velocity.

don't forget that the longer bullet will likely have a longer bearing surface, thus causing more resistance to moving down the bore, creating much higher pressures.