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Rifle Scopes Burris XTR3!!!
- Thread starter D_TROS
- Start date
Quit being an ass all the time
Burris also has the First Responder program. It includes paramedics, EMTs, Firefighters, judges, and civil servant attorneys, in addition to military and law enforcement.
So apples to apples, the XTR III is still at a different price point.
https://www.burrisoptics.com/first-responder-personal-purchase-program
Pretty sure you don't get the mil/leo discount if you ain't 'current'... otherwise your whole comment was kind of pointless.
I haven't seen it and don't know much about aside from specs, but I am pretty sure I have a better idea what the MSRP should be better than the people building it, as well as other scopes in the same price range.
They also offer the program via expertvoice with some pretty decent prices. It's a bit easier than filling out the paperwork and sending in. Weaver, vortex, Bushnell, Steiner, eotech , aimpoint(who's discounts suck), trijicon and a few others.
I can tell you the .mil discount isnt close to what pro shooters/ retail employees get. It's worth getting a part time job in a sporting good store just for the direct discounts on there. It's a great program these companies offer
So a DD214 from whenever qualifies? That's more generous than I'd expect most companies to be...
Isn’t Burris biting the cheese out of the T5X’s sandwich a bit here? Or is the pricing spread going to be wide enough not to matter?
This also makes me wonder is Steiner will upgrade their T5X line. I had high hopes for that scope when it was first announced.
This also makes me wonder is Steiner will upgrade their T5X line. I had high hopes for that scope when it was first announced.
I have suspected for a long time that the Burris business model was designed to coexist with Steiner without either brand infringing on the other. I would agree this scope competes with the T5Xi. So either they are ok with that, or Steiner has something up their sleeve.
I'm with primus here. I never joined thinking about the benefits afterward. Don't be mad that you lived a easier life and are not rewarded the same. A DD214 is just a piece of paper, but the meaning it entails is why people tie them to benefits. I dont ask for discounts, but if a company is generous enough to honor a vet that way, i'll accept it.
As for the XTR3. I hope it fills a niche that makes it a unique scope in a ever-more competitive market. Time will tell where it will sit. If Burris has done its leg work properly and the winds of fortune smile upon them.. They just might have a nice splice of the market. We will see.
Not that I've heard.
And this is just my humble opinion. But I dont believe we will need it after the ESCR goes live.
Obviously that's not my decision to make. I imagine it will still be available in the XTR II through 2019. But once you see the ESCR I think most folks will agree there is no need for both options.
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Apparently you're assuming I don't have a DD214, dude. Think again.
Rather than derail the discussion any further, I'll leave it at that.
Hold on, let me grab my ruler for you guys real quick.
"The One" scope to rule them all for me would be a 4-20x50 with wide FOV throughout the range with a weight below 30oz, rock solid mechanics with low to medium turrets, great christmas tree reticle that offers .2 mil but is not too cluttered (MR4 is my favorite so far) and glass that rivals tier one optics for a price under or near $2k. If this scope were to be offered in a shorter body that would be ideal as well. So far this scope has eluded the marketplace, with some coming close but "no cigar". This Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 hits everything except for the 4-20 mag range and with as wide of FOV they have at 3.3 I would have preferred a 3.8-21x50 instead, but that's just me. Is 18x good enough, I would say yes if the glass is on par, that's kind of how I felt with the Schmidt US 3-20x50 compared to the Kahles K318i, to my eyes the Kahles performed better at 18x and made up for the 2x deficiency with its optical performance at 18x. So if this XTR III lives up to the hype of how good the optical quality is then this would be the closest scope I've seen to hit all those checkboxes.
I completely understand Birddog, I know you have been a huge proponent of XTR II's and it was because of you, in large part, that I decided to try the newer XTR II 4-20x50 and was pleasantly surprised at how much better it was optically. It's unfortunate the illuminated version of the 3.3-18 won't be out until next summer at the earliest, I have a couple new AR builds I think that would be ideal for...
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Well I appreciate that you were willing to sign back up again and give the XTR II another shot. We are fortunate to have you here on the Hide Bill, you can always be counted on for a fair and honest opinion. You and Ilya are amongst our most valuable posters with a wide range of experience that you freely share.
Several posters here on the Hide weren't overly impressed with the early releases, but were willing to give them another go and are now happy with the value of the scope. @supercorndogs is another person off the top of my head, but I know there have been others.
QC on this new scope is going to be huge. Each XTR II is hand inspected before it leaves Greeley, which is I think a very big factor in it's very low rate of return. They dont just batch test them as many manufacturers do. The 1-8 that comes from LOW is inspected by two separate people before it goes out, and that thing is bulletproof. Not many companies put in that much effort. But so far I dont know anyone who has had a problem or broke a 1-8 XTR II. So it's working. Upon release, both the XTR II and the T5Xi were shaky and needed a little more work. But they got them squared away and they are both a pretty decent optic these days. So I think Burris has learned from past experiences about the effort required to release a quality scope.
Everything I'm hearing about the scope has been very positive. Hopefully I will have my hands on one myself here soon and will be better able to share my thoughts. I already have a handful of scopes and buddies lined up for a range day where everyone can just compare apples to apples through the lenses and give me their feedback. So fingers crossed that Sky can slip me one of these first production runs they are building right now.
Several posters here on the Hide weren't overly impressed with the early releases, but were willing to give them another go and are now happy with the value of the scope. @supercorndogs is another person off the top of my head, but I know there have been others.
QC on this new scope is going to be huge. Each XTR II is hand inspected before it leaves Greeley, which is I think a very big factor in it's very low rate of return. They dont just batch test them as many manufacturers do. The 1-8 that comes from LOW is inspected by two separate people before it goes out, and that thing is bulletproof. Not many companies put in that much effort. But so far I dont know anyone who has had a problem or broke a 1-8 XTR II. So it's working. Upon release, both the XTR II and the T5Xi were shaky and needed a little more work. But they got them squared away and they are both a pretty decent optic these days. So I think Burris has learned from past experiences about the effort required to release a quality scope.
Everything I'm hearing about the scope has been very positive. Hopefully I will have my hands on one myself here soon and will be better able to share my thoughts. I already have a handful of scopes and buddies lined up for a range day where everyone can just compare apples to apples through the lenses and give me their feedback. So fingers crossed that Sky can slip me one of these first production runs they are building right now.
Well, I am on the plane heading to Colorado. Burris visit tomorrow.
ILya
ILya
That's great that they are letting you tour the facility!! I'm admittedly jealous
They are working on an event for May 2019 that I hope to attend, which includes a facility tour. So hopefully that comes together.
Looking forward to your thoughts Ilya..
That's great that they are letting you tour the facility!! I'm admittedly jealous
They are working on an event for May 2019 that I hope to attend, which includes a facility tour. So hopefully that comes together.
Looking forward to your thoughts Ilya..
I've done the facility tour with Burris before where they let me see the whole manufacturing area, take pictures, etc.
This visit is really about the new products: I want to talk to the product managers and a couple of engineers about XTR3 and some other new stuff.
I am not sure if I will have time to go back into the production area and unless they changed something there is probably no need.
ILya
When I get to a computer I'll go fix all the spelling errors there. It is a bit embarrassing.
ILya
ILya
I just heard back from Burris and they said "The XTR III will be making it’s debut at The Shot Show and will started heading out to dealers following that. It will likely not be included in the First responder program." This is unfortunate the XTRIII will not make it into the First Responder program, maybe a Group Buy could be arranged? @GeoffatBurris - any strings you can pull there? Never hurts to ask, can't wait to see this scope and of course hear ILya's report from his visit today, will be curious if they actually had one he could look through and get an initial impression of.
Ouch. I was hoping to use that first responder program to get it down into the realm of possibility. Perhaps after they get the initial rush out the door and finally get all the backorders fulfilled it will trickle down in to the program in a year or so. Like I mentioned earlier I was planning on waiting for the illuminated version anyway.
I don't see it unreasonable for a brand new product to be excluded from the discount programme.
If the scope is as good as they say it is they will likely struggle to meet demand without any form of discount.
It'll likely be included once the initial hype and demand has died down, which is understandable.
many companies don't put their brand new stuff as part of a discount program initially but then might add it a bit further down the road.
can't wait to see the XTRIII, might be at SHOT, will have to stop by and take a gander. And good to hear that might start shipping shortly after the show, vs some companies that show stuff and if you are lucky it'll ship by the end of the year. lol.
can't wait to see the XTRIII, might be at SHOT, will have to stop by and take a gander. And good to hear that might start shipping shortly after the show, vs some companies that show stuff and if you are lucky it'll ship by the end of the year. lol.
I'm not terribly surprised by that. I remember when the XTR II was still new and unavailable as yet on the First Responder program.
I'm sure the III will make it's way on to the list as soon as they are able.
I would bet the farm the entire first years production will be sold at Shot.
I'll put my feelers out for a group buy..
I will go through the pictures and do a proper write-up later, but the short summary is that I liked what I saw. Given that the two scopes I saw were prototypes, I will obviously wait until I can get my hands on a production version, but these look extremely promising. Same for the new reticle. I think it will do really well for Burris. I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow either here or via Instagram or both.
The turrets fell very similar to XTR2 which I am perfectly comfortable with, but the image quality has an entirely different feel to it. These should give anything in their price range a run for the money and then some. Time will tell, of course.
ILya
The turrets fell very similar to XTR2 which I am perfectly comfortable with, but the image quality has an entirely different feel to it. These should give anything in their price range a run for the money and then some. Time will tell, of course.
ILya
Sort of disappointing to me. I was hoping for a little more tactile like other scopes in it's price range. BUT, if they have the glass sorted and FOV is as good as they say, and the reticle is useful, it sounds like it could be pretty nice.
You and I have different experience with XTR2 turrets. The ones I have tried had nice tactile feel.
ILya
Ditto for me. In fact, I went with the XTR2 2 years ago specifically BECAUSE of the turret feel (and other specs. They feel almost exactly like my Gen 1 ATACR 5-25.
To be fair, until we see production units we really can not say anything authoritative about image quality. The prototypes looked really good. As I said, I think they will give anything under $2k a run for their money and maybe more.
The smaller 3.3-18x50 XTR3, especially, since there really isn't that much competition in its price range for that configuration. The larger 5.4-30x56 model has more direct competition from the likes of Cronus and Stryker, so it remains to be seen. It is definitely one of the nicer eyepiece designs I have seen lately.
It is a thoroughly modern reticle. I think a 20 mrad tree is a little excessive, but it is better than it going all the way down to the edge of the image.
I wasnt a huge fan of the XTR2 clicks when compared to TT or S&B or Minox. For what they were, I was very impressed tho, workable, repeatable clicks. I really LOVED the old steiner clicks everyone claimed were "mushy". I nvr understood the noise made about clicks. Does it track?? boom done.
The new knobs are larger dia and the tenth spacing is further apart, both of which I strongly pushed for which made for great knobs. Im not joking when I say that using this scope at a match with over 400 rounds down range in the last couple weeks, I have a new favorite knob. My old favorite was the GenII Razor. XTR3 knobs are very close to those in every regard from feel to spacing EXCEPT for my favorite aspect of the XTR3 knobs, the oscillating tick marks Absolutely love them.
That's how I feel. Don't want to say the glass is the new epic savior of the sub $2k world, but it def has a different feel and "glow" if you will. I cant put my finger on it. Like I said in my 3-oh-H8 thread, maybe its the FOV making it brighter, combined with better glass is like a whole new world. haha.
Cool to see the tree retc shown. I cant wait to shoot it and see how it compares to my Minox MR4. There are some really cool features in that retc.
Regards,
DT
That is awesome! I mocked up a NF MOAR reticle that used similar open space to allow subtensions to .5 MOA. Can't wait to see the moa version!It is a thoroughly modern reticle. I think a 20 mrad tree is a little excessive, but it is better than it going all the way down to the edge of the image.
There version will be awesome if similar to the mil version.
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I had three of the 4-20's and still own a 2-10. Not disagreeing the clicks aren't tactile, but the tacticle click / turret rotation drag ratio is much lower than say a Schmidt, Razor 2, Tangent, etc. Reminds me more of a SWFA 5-20, or the older Steiners. I guess I wish the turret drag was less, and the detents were heavier.
Nice, they've let the cat out of the bag on the new reticle. I guess SCR2 is the official name.
I know reticles are very personal preference driven, but this hits on all cylinders for me. I love the SCR with its .2 graduations on all lines. I really like the interrupted lines on the grid to open it up and give it a less cluttered look. And I like the .5 mil cross in between each 1 mil subtension line in the grid. And that each line is numbered.
In short, it's extremely detailed without looking cluttered. That detail is important to me. If there is one thing I've learned in using holdovers, it's that there is a lot of open space that opens up margin for error on some of these tree type reticles. The more references you have to an exact correlation of where you need to be holding, the more accurate it is.
Thanks for the pics Ilya!!
I know reticles are very personal preference driven, but this hits on all cylinders for me. I love the SCR with its .2 graduations on all lines. I really like the interrupted lines on the grid to open it up and give it a less cluttered look. And I like the .5 mil cross in between each 1 mil subtension line in the grid. And that each line is numbered.
In short, it's extremely detailed without looking cluttered. That detail is important to me. If there is one thing I've learned in using holdovers, it's that there is a lot of open space that opens up margin for error on some of these tree type reticles. The more references you have to an exact correlation of where you need to be holding, the more accurate it is.
Thanks for the pics Ilya!!
