Rifle Scopes Burris XTR3!!!

[Primus]

$1,500-$1,600 for a predominately USA made scope, where the predecessor's internals are known to be great, that is now potentially lighter, shorter, more travel, better reticle, better glass - I'm in!

Well he did say Asia as far as th glass sourcing. Big difference between chicoms/LBFMs and Japan.

Going to assume its not Japanese glass due to calling it Asian. That is not promising , especially when comparable priced optics are coming from LOW and are a proven quality.

 

[Birddog6424]

Well he did say Asia as far as th glass sourcing. Big difference between chicoms/LBFMs and Japan.

Going to assume its not Japanese glass due to calling it Asian. That is not promising , especially when comparable priced optics are coming from LOW and are a proven quality.

It never occurred to me that using the word Asia instead of Japan would lead to the assumption that the glass is sourced somewhere other than Japan. It was already discussed on the first page that the glass is from Japan. Though I understand it's a long thread and reaching the point where everyone isnt reading it through.

Burris already has a relationship with LOW. They make our 1-8 XTR II, as well as our spotting scopes and binoculars.

 

[Primus]

Yea sorry I missed that. Im used to subtle marketing where words mean things and watch everyday how people try to market a skill or product without outright lying. If the glass truly is that much better, it makes the Burris an option IMO. The problem is, at the price point shown here, there are already some pretty good contenders. I can buy a Gen 2 razor 4-27x right now for the same as the MAP price so they are going to need to drop the price down to the 11-200 range to be a better value. You then have the Cronus and XRS 2/DMR 2 PRO which are most likely better quality optics. USmade Steiners / Burris don't lend alot of confidence based on their short history. They truly fucked up the T5Xrollout and doubled down with poor management decisions. I don't forget as easily as others. Just my opinion.

With that being said, I hope the XTR 3 is a good scope. Looking forward to seeing the reticle and maybe the Pro pricing will put it closer to where I think its value will be. if it is, I may even buy one.

Cheers.

 

[Birddog6424]

Ideally, I think the plan is that the scope is of sufficient quality and value that it competes well with other scopes in its price point.

You'll have to go easy on them if they decide they aren't going to start slashing the price on it just yet

 

[Shadow knows]

Love my XTR2 can’t wait to try on the 3

 

[C_R_Slacker]

Ok....where the fuck are people buying gen ii razors for anywhere close to the price that these xtr iii are going to be? Am i missing something obvious? People keep saying stuff like, "why would i buy one of these when i could buy a gen ii razor?" It's going to be at least a $500 difference, right? Maybe more? To me, these are going to hit in a place price wise where there isn't much out there. I ain't rich, but i ain't poor either, and to me there is going to be a big enough price difference to be significant.

 

[beetroot]

Ok....where the fuck are people buying gen ii razors for anywhere close to the price that these xtr iii are going to be? Am i missing something obvious? People keep saying stuff like, "why would i buy one of these when i could buy a gen ii razor?" It's going to be at least a $500 difference, right? Maybe more? To me, these are going to hit in a place price wise where there isn't much out there. I ain't rich, but i ain't poor either, and to me there is going to be a big enough price difference to be significant.

My guess is Mil or LEO discount, best price I've ever seen to the average Joe is 1900.

 

[Primus]

Ok....where the fuck are people buying gen ii razors for anywhere close to the price that these xtr iii are going to be? Am i missing something obvious? People keep saying stuff like, "why would i buy one of these when i could buy a gen ii razor?" It's going to be at least a $500 difference, right? Maybe more? To me, these are going to hit in a place price wise where there isn't much out there. I ain't rich, but i ain't poor either, and to me there is going to be a big enough price difference to be significant.

Go do something cool with your life and reap the benefits.

 

[spife7980]

Go do something cool with your life and reap the benefits.

Quit being an ass all the time

 

[Birddog6424]

My guess is Mil or LEO discount, best price I've ever seen to the average Joe is 1900.

Burris also has the First Responder program. It includes paramedics, EMTs, Firefighters, judges, and civil servant attorneys, in addition to military and law enforcement.

So apples to apples, the XTR III is still at a different price point.

https://www.burrisoptics.com/first-responder-personal-purchase-program

 

[C_R_Slacker]

Go do something cool with your life and reap the benefits.

What are you talking about?

 

[memilanuk]

What are you talking about?

Apparently if you're not current / active duty military or LEO, you're not 'cool'

 

[Primus]

Who said anything about current?

 

[memilanuk]

Pretty sure you don't get the mil/leo discount if you ain't 'current'... otherwise your whole comment was kind of pointless.

 

[supercorndogs]

I haven't seen it and don't know much about aside from specs, but I am pretty sure I have a better idea what the MSRP should be better than the people building it, as well as other scopes in the same price range.

 

[Primus]

Burris also has the First Responder program. It includes paramedics, EMTs, Firefighters, judges, and civil servant attorneys, in addition to military and law enforcement.

So apples to apples, the XTR III is still at a different price point.

https://www.burrisoptics.com/first-responder-personal-purchase-program

They also offer the program via expertvoice with some pretty decent prices. It's a bit easier than filling out the paperwork and sending in. Weaver, vortex, Bushnell, Steiner, eotech , aimpoint(who's discounts suck), trijicon and a few others.

I can tell you the .mil discount isnt close to what pro shooters/ retail employees get. It's worth getting a part time job in a sporting good store just for the direct discounts on there. It's a great program these companies offer

 

[Primus]

Pretty sure you don't get the mil/leo discount if you ain't 'current'... otherwise your whole comment was kind of pointless.

Pretty sure you are wrong...in fact ....you are

 

[memilanuk]

Pretty sure you are wrong...in fact ....you are

So a DD214 from whenever qualifies? That's more generous than I'd expect most companies to be...

 

[Kane0519]

Isn’t Burris biting the cheese out of the T5X’s sandwich a bit here? Or is the pricing spread going to be wide enough not to matter?

This also makes me wonder is Steiner will upgrade their T5X line. I had high hopes for that scope when it was first announced.

 

[Birddog6424]

Isn’t Burris biting the cheese out of the T5X’s sandwich a bit here? Or is the pricing spread going to be wide enough not to matter?

This also makes me wonder is Steiner will upgrade their T5X line. I had high hopes for that scope when it was first announced.

I have suspected for a long time that the Burris business model was designed to coexist with Steiner without either brand infringing on the other. I would agree this scope competes with the T5Xi. So either they are ok with that, or Steiner has something up their sleeve.

 

[precisionrifleman]

Burris said MSRP 17-1800, with the scr and a new Christmas tress style scr2 reticle. Look for these to drop around march - april in the $1500 range!

 

[magtech]

So a DD214 from whenever qualifies? That's more generous than I'd expect most companies to be...

I'm with primus here. I never joined thinking about the benefits afterward. Don't be mad that you lived a easier life and are not rewarded the same. A DD214 is just a piece of paper, but the meaning it entails is why people tie them to benefits. I dont ask for discounts, but if a company is generous enough to honor a vet that way, i'll accept it.

As for the XTR3. I hope it fills a niche that makes it a unique scope in a ever-more competitive market. Time will tell where it will sit. If Burris has done its leg work properly and the winds of fortune smile upon them.. They just might have a nice splice of the market. We will see.

 

[Dan05gsxr]

Mils and MoA will be offered.

H59 Options?

 

[Birddog6424]

H59 Options?

Not that I've heard.

And this is just my humble opinion. But I dont believe we will need it after the ESCR goes live.

Obviously that's not my decision to make. I imagine it will still be available in the XTR II through 2019. But once you see the ESCR I think most folks will agree there is no need for both options.

 

[memilanuk]

I'm with primus here. I never joined thinking about the benefits afterward. Don't be mad that you lived a easier life and are not rewarded the same. A DD214 is just a piece of paper, but the meaning it entails is why people tie them to benefits. I dont ask for discounts, but if a company is generous enough to honor a vet that way, i'll accept it.

Apparently you're assuming I don't have a DD214, dude. Think again.

Rather than derail the discussion any further, I'll leave it at that.

 

[sleeplz]

Hold on, let me grab my ruler for you guys real quick.

 

[Glassaholic]

I concur. All indications are Burris has learned from mistakes made & will hit this out of the park, but I want to see some field reviews once they’re out.

@wjm308 , I’m curouis, what makes this look like “the one” for you?

"The One" scope to rule them all for me would be a 4-20x50 with wide FOV throughout the range with a weight below 30oz, rock solid mechanics with low to medium turrets, great christmas tree reticle that offers .2 mil but is not too cluttered (MR4 is my favorite so far) and glass that rivals tier one optics for a price under or near $2k. If this scope were to be offered in a shorter body that would be ideal as well. So far this scope has eluded the marketplace, with some coming close but "no cigar". This Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 hits everything except for the 4-20 mag range and with as wide of FOV they have at 3.3 I would have preferred a 3.8-21x50 instead, but that's just me. Is 18x good enough, I would say yes if the glass is on par, that's kind of how I felt with the Schmidt US 3-20x50 compared to the Kahles K318i, to my eyes the Kahles performed better at 18x and made up for the 2x deficiency with its optical performance at 18x. So if this XTR III lives up to the hype of how good the optical quality is then this would be the closest scope I've seen to hit all those checkboxes.

Yes, that's exactly what they did Bill. These scopes have 7x erectors. The 30x scope they are releasing could have easily been run all the way to 35x.

How many times have we heard that Brand X scope "looks pretty good, until you get over X magnification, then the glass quality/eyebox quality diminishes".

Burris made a decision to not utilize the full length of travel of the erector system and potentially compromise the quality of the sight picture and eyebox. I think the eyebox and the glass were the two most often mentioned detriments of the XTR II, and the decision makers in Greeley are determined to overcome all the weaknesses of that scope line and bring a solid, well-rounded, well-liked scope to market.

There are several kinds of "bests".. When you think of the best scope out there, you think of the big hitters like TT and S&B. But there are also the best scopes in their price point. And that's what makes the XTR II so successful. It's a solid scope at its price point.

The XTR III is moving into a new price point. And the goal is to be the best scope and a solid choice for scope buyers at that price point.

I completely understand Birddog, I know you have been a huge proponent of XTR II's and it was because of you, in large part, that I decided to try the newer XTR II 4-20x50 and was pleasantly surprised at how much better it was optically. It's unfortunate the illuminated version of the 3.3-18 won't be out until next summer at the earliest, I have a couple new AR builds I think that would be ideal for...

 

[Birddog6424]

Well I appreciate that you were willing to sign back up again and give the XTR II another shot. We are fortunate to have you here on the Hide Bill, you can always be counted on for a fair and honest opinion. You and Ilya are amongst our most valuable posters with a wide range of experience that you freely share.

Several posters here on the Hide weren't overly impressed with the early releases, but were willing to give them another go and are now happy with the value of the scope. @supercorndogs is another person off the top of my head, but I know there have been others.

QC on this new scope is going to be huge. Each XTR II is hand inspected before it leaves Greeley, which is I think a very big factor in it's very low rate of return. They dont just batch test them as many manufacturers do. The 1-8 that comes from LOW is inspected by two separate people before it goes out, and that thing is bulletproof. Not many companies put in that much effort. But so far I dont know anyone who has had a problem or broke a 1-8 XTR II. So it's working. Upon release, both the XTR II and the T5Xi were shaky and needed a little more work. But they got them squared away and they are both a pretty decent optic these days. So I think Burris has learned from past experiences about the effort required to release a quality scope.

Everything I'm hearing about the scope has been very positive. Hopefully I will have my hands on one myself here soon and will be better able to share my thoughts. I already have a handful of scopes and buddies lined up for a range day where everyone can just compare apples to apples through the lenses and give me their feedback. So fingers crossed that Sky can slip me one of these first production runs they are building right now.

 

[koshkin]

Well, I am on the plane heading to Colorado. Burris visit tomorrow.

ILya

 

[black5.3]

Looking forward to hearing your findings

 

[Birddog6424]

Well, I am on the plane heading to Colorado. Burris visit tomorrow.

ILya

That's great that they are letting you tour the facility!! I'm admittedly jealous

They are working on an event for May 2019 that I hope to attend, which includes a facility tour. So hopefully that comes together.

Looking forward to your thoughts Ilya..

 

[koshkin]

That's great that they are letting you tour the facility!! I'm admittedly jealous

They are working on an event for May 2019 that I hope to attend, which includes a facility tour. So hopefully that comes together.

Looking forward to your thoughts Ilya..

I've done the facility tour with Burris before where they let me see the whole manufacturing area, take pictures, etc.

This visit is really about the new products: I want to talk to the product managers and a couple of engineers about XTR3 and some other new stuff.

I am not sure if I will have time to go back into the production area and unless they changed something there is probably no need.

ILya

 

[Birddog6424]

That's actually even better..

 

[koshkin]

Here is the write-up from last year's visit:
http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=1898

ILya

 

[Birddog6424]

Great write up. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[D_TROS]

Here is the write-up from last year's visit:
http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=1898

ILya

Great write up for sure. Cant wait for you thoughts on round 2!

Regards,
DT

 

[koshkin]

When I get to a computer I'll go fix all the spelling errors there. It is a bit embarrassing.

ILya

 

[Glassaholic]

Burris also has the First Responder program. It includes paramedics, EMTs, Firefighters, judges, and civil servant attorneys, in addition to military and law enforcement.

So apples to apples, the XTR III is still at a different price point.

https://www.burrisoptics.com/first-responder-personal-purchase-program

I just heard back from Burris and they said "The XTR III will be making it’s debut at The Shot Show and will started heading out to dealers following that. It will likely not be included in the First responder program." This is unfortunate the XTRIII will not make it into the First Responder program, maybe a Group Buy could be arranged? @GeoffatBurris - any strings you can pull there? Never hurts to ask, can't wait to see this scope and of course hear ILya's report from his visit today, will be curious if they actually had one he could look through and get an initial impression of.

 

[bigdaddydmd]

Ouch. I was hoping to use that first responder program to get it down into the realm of possibility. Perhaps after they get the initial rush out the door and finally get all the backorders fulfilled it will trickle down in to the program in a year or so. Like I mentioned earlier I was planning on waiting for the illuminated version anyway.

 

[beetroot]

I just heard back from Burris and they said "The XTR III will be making it’s debut at The Shot Show and will started heading out to dealers following that. It will likely not be included in the First responder program." This is unfortunate the XTRIII will not make it into the First Responder program, maybe a Group Buy could be arranged? @GeoffatBurris - any strings you can pull there? Never hurts to ask, can't wait to see this scope and of course hear ILya's report from his visit today, will be curious if they actually had one he could look through and get an initial impression of.

I don't see it unreasonable for a brand new product to be excluded from the discount programme.
If the scope is as good as they say it is they will likely struggle to meet demand without any form of discount.

It'll likely be included once the initial hype and demand has died down, which is understandable.

 

[SpeedyR]

many companies don't put their brand new stuff as part of a discount program initially but then might add it a bit further down the road.

can't wait to see the XTRIII, might be at SHOT, will have to stop by and take a gander. And good to hear that might start shipping shortly after the show, vs some companies that show stuff and if you are lucky it'll ship by the end of the year. lol.

 

[Birddog6424]

I just heard back from Burris and they said "The XTR III will be making it’s debut at The Shot Show and will started heading out to dealers following that. It will likely not be included in the First responder program." This is unfortunate the XTRIII will not make it into the First Responder program, maybe a Group Buy could be arranged? @GeoffatBurris - any strings you can pull there? Never hurts to ask, can't wait to see this scope and of course hear ILya's report from his visit today, will be curious if they actually had one he could look through and get an initial impression of.

I'm not terribly surprised by that. I remember when the XTR II was still new and unavailable as yet on the First Responder program.

I'm sure the III will make it's way on to the list as soon as they are able.

I would bet the farm the entire first years production will be sold at Shot.

I'll put my feelers out for a group buy..

 

[Kickin45]

Ouch. I was hoping to use that first responder program to get it down into the realm of possibility. Perhaps after they get the initial rush out the door and finally get all the backorders fulfilled it will trickle down in to the program in a year or so. Like I mentioned earlier I was planning on waiting for the illuminated version anyway.

Me too ?

 

[koshkin]

I will go through the pictures and do a proper write-up later, but the short summary is that I liked what I saw. Given that the two scopes I saw were prototypes, I will obviously wait until I can get my hands on a production version, but these look extremely promising. Same for the new reticle. I think it will do really well for Burris. I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow either here or via Instagram or both.

The turrets fell very similar to XTR2 which I am perfectly comfortable with, but the image quality has an entirely different feel to it. These should give anything in their price range a run for the money and then some. Time will tell, of course.

ILya

 

[vol375]

Thanks for the updates! I’m interested.

 

[lte82]

The turrets fell very similar to XTR2

ILya

Sort of disappointing to me. I was hoping for a little more tactile like other scopes in it's price range. BUT, if they have the glass sorted and FOV is as good as they say, and the reticle is useful, it sounds like it could be pretty nice.

 

[koshkin]

Sort of disappointing to me. I was hoping for a little more tactile like other scopes in it's price range. BUT, if they have the glass sorted and FOV is as good as they say, and the reticle is useful, it sounds like it could be pretty nice.

You and I have different experience with XTR2 turrets. The ones I have tried had nice tactile feel.

ILya

 

[Renomd]

I will go through the pictures and do a proper write-up later, but the short summary is that I liked what I saw. Given that the two scopes I saw were prototypes, I will obviously wait until I can get my hands on a production version, but these look extremely promising. Same for the new reticle. I think it will do really well for Burris. I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow either here or via Instagram or both.

The turrets fell very similar to XTR2 which I am perfectly comfortable with, but the image quality has an entirely different feel to it. These should give anything in their price range a run for the money and then some. Time will tell, of course.

ILya

Thank you for doing the evaluation! Would love to hear your impression on glass comparison between other high end scopes. Again thank you ILya!

 

[Subwrx300]

You and I have different experience with XTR2 turrets. The ones I have tried had nice tactile feel.

ILya

Ditto for me. In fact, I went with the XTR2 2 years ago specifically BECAUSE of the turret feel (and other specs. They feel almost exactly like my Gen 1 ATACR 5-25.

 

[koshkin]

Thank you for doing the evaluation! Would love to hear your impression on glass comparison between other high end scopes. Again thank you ILya!

To be fair, until we see production units we really can not say anything authoritative about image quality. The prototypes looked really good. As I said, I think they will give anything under $2k a run for their money and maybe more.

The smaller 3.3-18x50 XTR3, especially, since there really isn't that much competition in its price range for that configuration. The larger 5.4-30x56 model has more direct competition from the likes of Cronus and Stryker, so it remains to be seen. It is definitely one of the nicer eyepiece designs I have seen lately.