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Ditto for me. In fact, I went with the XTR2 2 years ago specifically BECAUSE of the turret feel (and other specs. They feel almost exactly like my Gen 1 ATACR 5-25.
To be fair, until we see production units we really can not say anything authoritative about image quality. The prototypes looked really good. As I said, I think they will give anything under $2k a run for their money and maybe more.
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That is awesome! I mocked up a NF MOAR reticle that used similar open space to allow subtensions to .5 MOA. Can't wait to see the moa version!It is a thoroughly modern reticle. I think a 20 mrad tree is a little excessive, but it is better than it going all the way down to the edge of the image.
You and I have different experience with XTR2 turrets. The ones I have tried had nice tactile feel.
ILya
I don't see it unreasonable for a brand new product to be excluded from the discount programme.
If the scope is as good as they say it is they will likely struggle to meet demand without any form of discount.
It'll likely be included once the initial hype and demand has died down, which is understandable.
Thank you for sharing these ILya. I think Christmas tree fans will like it, I wish they would have opted for a floating center dot but the floating cross is so tiny it will probably act like a dot. I also like the tapered thick outer stadia reminiscent of March's reticle, it draws the eye toward the center when zoomed out. The larger hash marks between 4/5 mils on the horizontal remind me of the DEV-L from Sig, I'm assuming the size/height of those may have some ranging qualities to them? My favorite reticle right now is the MR4 and while I like the SKMR3 I don't like the solid tree lines, the MR4 uses dots which make it very unobtrusive, this SCR2 seems to be a combo of that and while it's not dots its small crosses which should prove to not be as intrusive as a full line filling up the space. Nicely done Burris. What's interesting is that Steiner was the first to release the SCR reticle which trickled down quickly into the Burris line, and now Burris is the first to turn it into a Christmas tree and I imagine it will trickle up to Steiner eventually.It is a thoroughly modern reticle. I think a 20 mrad tree is a little excessive, but it is better than it going all the way down to the edge of the image.
On brand new scopes hitting the discount/group buy programs: yes, we need to get the product out to "regular" retailers before we backfill into discounted programs like First Responder and Experticity/Voice (or whatever the name is today ). Timing just depends on supply and demand.
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The cool part about the open grid subtensions is that you can actually hold down to .05 mil. The smaller gap means that hash is .2, edge of hash is .15 and center of gap is .1 mil. Very nice for milling target size and/or precise wind holds.
Hello everyone.
I had a great visit with Ilya yesterday. But am very glad our engineering director was there to answer his questions. The dude makes me feel like a marketing dummy. Which, you know, is true, but I still prefer to avoid feeling that way....
Still working on getting official published subtension info for SCR2 reticle. We just have not released it yet. Sky's saying next week at earliest.
On brand new scopes hitting the discount/group buy programs: yes, we need to get the product out to "regular" retailers before we backfill into discounted programs like First Responder and Experticity/Voice (or whatever the name is today ). Timing just depends on supply and demand.
We've got a few other items for SHOT, if you're going! I'm honestly pysched for the new PEPR mount with the Signature ring inserts. I know it's not as intereting as new reticles and scopes, but we sell a LOT of PEPR mounts, and this one will be very nice.
I do not get the tme to check in here very often, but you can reach me at [email protected]. Cheers!
I can't speak to the entire reticle layout/design, but the open hash tree grid allows better visibility and better precision (see my post above discussing Benning able to hold to .05 mil precisely. Given the overall look with the center cross hair and open hash grid, I'd say it looks pretty dam useful.I am by no means an expert, but I'm not super keen on the reticle.
Perhaps folk with more experience can explain why they have gone for crosses rather than dots like most other tree reticles uses?
I would've thought dots would be nicer to use.
Also whats up with the lengths of the hashes on the horizontal between 4 and 5 mil? I assume they have a specific purpose.
I feel like the Nightforce Mil-XT is more inline with what I'd want from the tree reticle.
Whatsup with the mount with "inserts"? What is the advantage of having inserts instead of using a precision milled mount that is measured for the tube diameter?
Whatsup with the mount with "inserts"? What is the advantage of having inserts instead of using a precision milled mount that is measured for the tube diameter?
If my suspicions are correct, than the inserts would also allow you to transition from 30mm, 34mm, 35mm and 36mm tube scopes with just insert changes, versus buying a whole new mount. Or at least, I hope someone thought about that on this new design....The inserts allow you to add or subtract MOA cant without having to buy a new rail or mount. The feature is big with rimfire guys who run against the limit of their scope's elevation. I'm not sure how much use it has beyond the rimfire market though.
If my suspicions are correct, than the inserts would also allow you to transition from 30mm, 34mm, 35mm and 36mm tube scopes with just insert changes, versus buying a whole new mount. Or at least, I hope someone thought about that on this new design....
That didn't even occur to me, but yes, it would definitely be another use for the insert design. Combine that with the ability to add and subtract MOA, and you should have a very, very flexible system.
Saves the company costs and makes a gimmicky product for your Big Box Store shooter.
The idea of them coming with different size inserts for all the scope tube diameters is also brilliant...I hope they do this also.
Saves cost? you kidding rite? How in your mind do you see the extra machining for the inserts saving money or supplying the different inserts cheaper??
And gimmicky? when a company comes out with innovative products you shit on it without even see/using said product?
The insert mounts are a life saver when you need extra elevation or even when you need to center an optic to the side (both of which Ive done granted usually for hunting rifles or rimfire... And nobody makes an affordable one piece base so if they keep the price close to the original perpr mount, this could be a viable option for AR shooters.
The idea of them coming with different size inserts for all the scope tube diameters is also brilliant...I hope they do this also.
Regards,
DT
That's why alot of bench rest guys use em, cause their cheap and really aren't concerned with accuracy and repeatability.They dont have to write and run different programs, redesign, repackage, relabel, or stock/produce/ship multiple types of that item.
How can that not drop cost? Same reason auto makers use a TON of the same parts in cars.
Have you used them?
They arent metal, they arent perfectly machined, nor do they hold their shape.
How accurate and consistent can that possibly be?
Thats why I call that a universal, Savage Axis, walmart special, long range shooter, big box store, gimmick.
Sure they have their place like you said, rimfire, hunting rifle with an optic/mount so messed up you cant get a zero. But not on a precision rifle/optic combo.
They dont have to write and run different programs, redesign, repackage, relabel, or stock/produce/ship multiple types of that item.
How can that not drop cost? Same reason auto makers use a TON of the same parts in cars.
Have you used them?
They arent metal, they arent perfectly machined, nor do they hold their shape.
How accurate and consistent can that possibly be?
Thats why I call that a universal, Savage Axis, walmart special, long range shooter, big box store, gimmick.
Sure they have their place like you said, rimfire, hunting rifle with an optic/mount so messed up you cant get a zero. But not on a precision rifle/optic combo.
I can't speak to the entire reticle layout/design, but the open hash tree grid allows better visibility and better precision (see my post above discussing Benning able to hold to .05 mil precisely. Given the overall look with the center cross hair and open hash grid, I'd say it looks pretty dam useful.
The increasing lines on right and left side of reticle are .1 mil target size line's for UKD shooting/ estimating Target size.
I guess I'm confused how the Mil XT is substantially different from this (or vice versa) because both use .2 lines, 1 mil grid spacing, and alternating hashes on the main crosshair.
The hash vs dots is debatable but this is a good look, IMO. It's believe it's more of a precision issue: do you want a course hold or a fine hold?
To each their own. I'd love to have this reticle in any scope.
That's why alot of bench rest guys use em, cause their cheap and really aren't concerned with accuracy and repeatability.
That was my assessment as well, we'll have to wait until the official specs come out, but it look like .1 mil width which means .05 mil to each side of the center hash.That center cross looks like its .1x.1 mils. At any magnification below max it will probably look very similar to a dot. I actually prefer an open center like on the EBR-C reticles with a .2 hash next to it similar to the SKMR3
The main difference I see is the Mil-XT has dots opposed to crosses on the tree, but as you explained it as an open grid rather than a whole bunch of crosses it makes more sense now.
I would've though a centre dot would be more precise that the centre cross, but until we get the sub tensions it's impossible to know how big it'll compare to other reticle designs.
How bout an XTR III fixed 12x with the new reticle for $600?
Hmmmm?
I hope someone sends it up the chain. I’ve been waiting for years for SWFA to update Their stuff.... why not XTR?I'd hop on that train
That idea is crazy goodHow bout an XTR III fixed 12x with the new reticle for $600?
Hmmmm?
I’m not a huge Christmas tree reticle fan, but I’d consider buying a fixed 10/12x like the XTR III (SCR or SCR2). Looks to have better turrets (10mil/rev), zero stop, and form factor than the SWFA 10x42 HD.
@GeoffatBurris Will the original SCR be in the XTR III?
Are we still thinking mid-2019 for availability?
I hope someone sends it up the chain. I’ve been waiting for years for SWFA to update Their stuff.... why not XTR?