Rifle Scopes Burris XTR3!!!

#151
Ahhh, this thread will be so much better without the Negative Nancy that's been plaguing the forums the last few days! Puttin' the ol' ignore button to use finally! :)

Hearing that the weight has been brought down on these is great news! Ol' Frank's gonna be a busy man next year! And @koshkin , do share what you can after your visit. I always enjoy reading your point of view and insights. Lots of good stuff coming soon!
 
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#152
Basher said:
Ahhh, this thread will be so much better without the Negative Nancy that's been plaguing the forums the last few days! Puttin' the ol' ignore button to use finally! :)

Hearing that the weight has been brought down on these is great news! Ol' Frank's gonna be a busy man next year! And @koshkin , do share what you can after your visit. I always enjoy reading your point of view and insights. Lots of good stuff coming soon!
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agreed, im a big fan of asian products being from australia, obsessed with anything japanese and korean,if people think the japanese cant keep up with the rest of the modern world theyre dreaming... korean engineering is definately on par etc etc
 
#154
918v said:
If that were true then nobody excells at manufacturing.
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308pirate said:
Product quality is not a function of after the fact inspection or "QC". It's a function of the design and manufacturing process. It starts at APQP phase 1 and goes from there.

I don't know what you do for a living but this is what I do. Unless we're in the same profession, I doubt you know more about this than I do.
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As much as I hate to agree with him (I still remember the thread that got him banned), He's absolutely right here. I work QA for aviation and we put little value in post inspection. For any confidence calculations, we give a "good" inspection method only an 80% chance of catching defects.
 
#156
D_TROS said:
View attachment 6979916


well it tracks good. fov is awesome and i absolutely love the knobs/ticks. heading home. better review later.

day one i dropped 40 shots and was about to ditch the scope. had a come to jesus with my rifle and day 2 i dropped 4. ends up i just suck at shooting in 8-30 mph switchy texas winds. day 2 winds were a mild 2-6mph. that 3-oh-H8 life.

DT
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Not to derail too much, but is the rumor Jim See DQ'ed himself after winning the Tac Division true?
 
#158
After having read this thread, I’m very much looking forward to getting my paws on the 18x scope! That huge FOV will be tits! I really liked the turrets (audible/tactile and perfect tracking) on my 4-20 XTR2 that I had, but my only issue with it and the 2 T5XI’s was the damn CA. Hearing that they have addressed this for the XTR3 is great news! I’m already planning another upper build for a spare lower receiver I have that will be sporting one of the XTR3 3.3-18 scopes, for when they do come out.
As others have mentioned, this is a fine time for good optics and precision shooting!!!
 
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#159
Birddog6424 said:
Like Winny I don't want to derail the thread. But in a nutshell it appears that he had position and cheek weld on his rifle, was looking through his scope, and upon moving his rifle, bumped the barricade and accidentally discharged his weapon, missing the target by two feet.

He discussed it with the RO, who thought it was a non-issue. But Jim thought otherwise. He finished the match then asked the MD to remove him.
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Integrity in spades right there!
 
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#161
Birddog6424 said:
Burris made a decision to not utilize the full length of travel of the erector system and potentially compromise the quality of the sight picture and eyebox. I think the eyebox and the glass were the two most often mentioned detriments of the XTR II, and the decision makers in Greeley are determined to overcome all the weaknesses of that scope line and bring a solid, well-rounded, well-liked scope to market.
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This right here is what has my attention the most regarding this scope. It drives me nuts to spend a large sum of money (too me anyway) on a scope, have it be the cats ass in terms of reliability/tracking/turrets and not be able to use the last two powers of magnification due to darkening/too tight of an eyebox/etc.
 
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#163
Sorry fellas, work has been killing me. HAvnt even unpacked my rifle yet. Still pretty excited about winning the Top Tac. SOme darn tough competition I feel very proud to have beat. There were over 50 darn good invite only open shooters that didn't beat this poor little 3-0h-H8!!


Winny94 said:
Not to derail too much, but is the rumor Jim See DQ'ed himself after winning the Tac Division true?
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I don't get involved in drama. I wont comment on what happened. I don't do pity parties. If you would like to start a separate thread about how you can win a match by DQ'ing, feel free to do so. Dumbest thing ive ever heard.


Chet790 said:
I can't decide if I should wait or get a Vortex Razor HD 2 in 27x I have two XTR 2 models already and the 25x gets blurry 22x through 25x
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Tough call. I loved everything about my GenII other than the lame locking knobs that I would accidentally lock almost every time I dialed (reason I sold), and that it weighed 4 lbs. You def cant make a wrong choice here. Ive only seen a couple Gen II's go down and they have great glass.

As mentioned, its a good time to be a scope purchaser!!



Some more details
3-18
13" and 28 ozs

5-30
15" and 33 ozs


Regards
DT
 
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#165
My initial thought was to go with the 3-18 because of hunting and wanting a wide FOV on low power, but if the FOV on the low end of the 5-30 is good as I am hearing then stepping up to a 5-30 is a no brainer. Either way I won't be in the early adopter camp because I find illum worth it when hunting with a FFP scope on lowest power at dawn and dusk and I can wait until summer '19 for the illum models to roll out. Wonder if they will have to increase the reticle thickness to add the illumination.
 
#168
beretta_man11 said:
$1,500-$1,600 for a predominately USA made scope, where the predecessor's internals are known to be great, that is now potentially lighter, shorter, more travel, better reticle, better glass - I'm in!
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Well he did say Asia as far as th glass sourcing. Big difference between chicoms/LBFMs and Japan.

Going to assume its not Japanese glass due to calling it Asian. That is not promising , especially when comparable priced optics are coming from LOW and are a proven quality.
 
#169
Yea sorry I missed that. Im used to subtle marketing where words mean things and watch everyday how people try to market a skill or product without outright lying. If the glass truly is that much better, it makes the Burris an option IMO. The problem is, at the price point shown here, there are already some pretty good contenders. I can buy a Gen 2 razor 4-27x right now for the same as the MAP price so they are going to need to drop the price down to the 11-200 range to be a better value. You then have the Cronus and XRS 2/DMR 2 PRO which are most likely better quality optics. USmade Steiners / Burris don't lend alot of confidence based on their short history. They truly fucked up the T5Xrollout and doubled down with poor management decisions. I don't forget as easily as others. Just my opinion.

With that being said, I hope the XTR 3 is a good scope. Looking forward to seeing the reticle and maybe the Pro pricing will put it closer to where I think its value will be. if it is, I may even buy one.

Cheers.
 
#171
Ok....where the fuck are people buying gen ii razors for anywhere close to the price that these xtr iii are going to be? Am i missing something obvious? People keep saying stuff like, "why would i buy one of these when i could buy a gen ii razor?" It's going to be at least a $500 difference, right? Maybe more? To me, these are going to hit in a place price wise where there isn't much out there. I ain't rich, but i ain't poor either, and to me there is going to be a big enough price difference to be significant.
 
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#172
C_R_Slacker said:
Ok....where the fuck are people buying gen ii razors for anywhere close to the price that these xtr iii are going to be? Am i missing something obvious? People keep saying stuff like, "why would i buy one of these when i could buy a gen ii razor?" It's going to be at least a $500 difference, right? Maybe more? To me, these are going to hit in a place price wise where there isn't much out there. I ain't rich, but i ain't poor either, and to me there is going to be a big enough price difference to be significant.
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My guess is Mil or LEO discount, best price I've ever seen to the average Joe is 1900.
 
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#173
C_R_Slacker said:
Ok....where the fuck are people buying gen ii razors for anywhere close to the price that these xtr iii are going to be? Am i missing something obvious? People keep saying stuff like, "why would i buy one of these when i could buy a gen ii razor?" It's going to be at least a $500 difference, right? Maybe more? To me, these are going to hit in a place price wise where there isn't much out there. I ain't rich, but i ain't poor either, and to me there is going to be a big enough price difference to be significant.
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Go do something cool with your life and reap the benefits.
 
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#179
I haven't seen it and don't know much about aside from specs, but I am pretty sure I have a better idea what the MSRP should be better than the people building it, as well as other scopes in the same price range.o_O:censored:
 
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#180
Birddog6424 said:
Burris also has the First Responder program. It includes paramedics, EMTs, Firefighters, judges, and civil servant attorneys, in addition to military and law enforcement.

So apples to apples, the XTR III is still at a different price point.

https://www.burrisoptics.com/first-responder-personal-purchase-program
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They also offer the program via expertvoice with some pretty decent prices. It's a bit easier than filling out the paperwork and sending in. Weaver, vortex, Bushnell, Steiner, eotech , aimpoint(who's discounts suck), trijicon and a few others.

I can tell you the .mil discount isnt close to what pro shooters/ retail employees get. It's worth getting a part time job in a sporting good store just for the direct discounts on there. It's a great program these companies offer
 
#183
Isn’t Burris biting the cheese out of the T5X’s sandwich a bit here? Or is the pricing spread going to be wide enough not to matter?

This also makes me wonder is Steiner will upgrade their T5X line. I had high hopes for that scope when it was first announced.
 
#185
milanuk said:
So a DD214 from whenever qualifies? That's more generous than I'd expect most companies to be...
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I'm with primus here. I never joined thinking about the benefits afterward. Don't be mad that you lived a easier life and are not rewarded the same. A DD214 is just a piece of paper, but the meaning it entails is why people tie them to benefits. I dont ask for discounts, but if a company is generous enough to honor a vet that way, i'll accept it.

As for the XTR3. I hope it fills a niche that makes it a unique scope in a ever-more competitive market. Time will tell where it will sit. If Burris has done its leg work properly and the winds of fortune smile upon them.. They just might have a nice splice of the market. We will see.
 
#187
magtech said:
I'm with primus here. I never joined thinking about the benefits afterward. Don't be mad that you lived a easier life and are not rewarded the same. A DD214 is just a piece of paper, but the meaning it entails is why people tie them to benefits. I dont ask for discounts, but if a company is generous enough to honor a vet that way, i'll accept it.
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Apparently you're assuming I don't have a DD214, dude. Think again.

Rather than derail the discussion any further, I'll leave it at that.
 
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#189
Kane0519 said:
I concur. All indications are Burris has learned from mistakes made & will hit this out of the park, but I want to see some field reviews once they’re out.

@wjm308 , I’m curouis, what makes this look like “the one” for you?
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"The One" scope to rule them all for me would be a 4-20x50 with wide FOV throughout the range with a weight below 30oz, rock solid mechanics with low to medium turrets, great christmas tree reticle that offers .2 mil but is not too cluttered (MR4 is my favorite so far) and glass that rivals tier one optics for a price under or near $2k. If this scope were to be offered in a shorter body that would be ideal as well. So far this scope has eluded the marketplace, with some coming close but "no cigar". This Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 hits everything except for the 4-20 mag range and with as wide of FOV they have at 3.3 I would have preferred a 3.8-21x50 instead, but that's just me. Is 18x good enough, I would say yes if the glass is on par, that's kind of how I felt with the Schmidt US 3-20x50 compared to the Kahles K318i, to my eyes the Kahles performed better at 18x and made up for the 2x deficiency with its optical performance at 18x. So if this XTR III lives up to the hype of how good the optical quality is then this would be the closest scope I've seen to hit all those checkboxes.

Birddog6424 said:
Yes, that's exactly what they did Bill. These scopes have 7x erectors. The 30x scope they are releasing could have easily been run all the way to 35x.

How many times have we heard that Brand X scope "looks pretty good, until you get over X magnification, then the glass quality/eyebox quality diminishes".

Burris made a decision to not utilize the full length of travel of the erector system and potentially compromise the quality of the sight picture and eyebox. I think the eyebox and the glass were the two most often mentioned detriments of the XTR II, and the decision makers in Greeley are determined to overcome all the weaknesses of that scope line and bring a solid, well-rounded, well-liked scope to market.

There are several kinds of "bests".. When you think of the best scope out there, you think of the big hitters like TT and S&B. But there are also the best scopes in their price point. And that's what makes the XTR II so successful. It's a solid scope at its price point.

The XTR III is moving into a new price point. And the goal is to be the best scope and a solid choice for scope buyers at that price point.
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I completely understand Birddog, I know you have been a huge proponent of XTR II's and it was because of you, in large part, that I decided to try the newer XTR II 4-20x50 and was pleasantly surprised at how much better it was optically. It's unfortunate the illuminated version of the 3.3-18 won't be out until next summer at the earliest, I have a couple new AR builds I think that would be ideal for...
 
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#192
Birddog6424 said:
That's great that they are letting you tour the facility!! I'm admittedly jealous ;)

They are working on an event for May 2019 that I hope to attend, which includes a facility tour. So hopefully that comes together.

Looking forward to your thoughts Ilya..
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I've done the facility tour with Burris before where they let me see the whole manufacturing area, take pictures, etc.

This visit is really about the new products: I want to talk to the product managers and a couple of engineers about XTR3 and some other new stuff.

I am not sure if I will have time to go back into the production area and unless they changed something there is probably no need.

ILya
 
#196
Birddog6424 said:
Burris also has the First Responder program. It includes paramedics, EMTs, Firefighters, judges, and civil servant attorneys, in addition to military and law enforcement.

So apples to apples, the XTR III is still at a different price point.

https://www.burrisoptics.com/first-responder-personal-purchase-program
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I just heard back from Burris and they said "The XTR III will be making it’s debut at The Shot Show and will started heading out to dealers following that. It will likely not be included in the First responder program." This is unfortunate the XTRIII will not make it into the First Responder program, maybe a Group Buy could be arranged? @GeoffatBurris - any strings you can pull there? Never hurts to ask, can't wait to see this scope and of course hear ILya's report from his visit today, will be curious if they actually had one he could look through and get an initial impression of.
 
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#197
Ouch. I was hoping to use that first responder program to get it down into the realm of possibility. Perhaps after they get the initial rush out the door and finally get all the backorders fulfilled it will trickle down in to the program in a year or so. Like I mentioned earlier I was planning on waiting for the illuminated version anyway.
 
#198
wjm308 said:
I just heard back from Burris and they said "The XTR III will be making it’s debut at The Shot Show and will started heading out to dealers following that. It will likely not be included in the First responder program." This is unfortunate the XTRIII will not make it into the First Responder program, maybe a Group Buy could be arranged? @GeoffatBurris - any strings you can pull there? Never hurts to ask, can't wait to see this scope and of course hear ILya's report from his visit today, will be curious if they actually had one he could look through and get an initial impression of.
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I don't see it unreasonable for a brand new product to be excluded from the discount programme.
If the scope is as good as they say it is they will likely struggle to meet demand without any form of discount.

It'll likely be included once the initial hype and demand has died down, which is understandable.
 
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#199
many companies don't put their brand new stuff as part of a discount program initially but then might add it a bit further down the road.

can't wait to see the XTRIII, might be at SHOT, will have to stop by and take a gander. And good to hear that might start shipping shortly after the show, vs some companies that show stuff and if you are lucky it'll ship by the end of the year. lol.
 
#200
bigdaddydmd said:
Ouch. I was hoping to use that first responder program to get it down into the realm of possibility. Perhaps after they get the initial rush out the door and finally get all the backorders fulfilled it will trickle down in to the program in a year or so. Like I mentioned earlier I was planning on waiting for the illuminated version anyway.
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Me too ?
 
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