Calibers that ruin barrels fast -> Are they a pain in the ass?

[Kristian_Jensen]

Lets say you run a 300 NM which has 900-1000 rounds before barrel change. How many rounds will you have to put through the barrel before having enough data and the right hand-load recipe to shoot as well as you did with the previous?

If the barrel do a 1000 rounds but you have to use 100 rounds just to get it up and running, you'll used 10% of the barrel life before getting it up and running. Can you get it up and running with way less or is it just very very very expensive and very very very high maintenance to run these calibers?

You, who own calibers that burn through barrels, is it much hazzle to deal with? Is it worth running?

 

[Ledzep]

Something like a 300 Norma, 300 win mag, 300 PRC, 338 Lapua, etc... Is less of a deal in my book. For the most part you're going to be taking fewer shots, and slower rates of fire with those calibers than something like a 6mm creedmoor or 6mm competition match.

For instance, you go to a PRS match with your hot 6mm, or 6.5 SAUM/WSM and burn through 120 rounds in fast-firing strings of 8-15 rounds. Well that barrel is only good for maybe 5-7 matches plus whatever practice/load development you do. And guys that compete usually have the time/money budget for it. Some people don't. It's one of the biggest factors that keeps me shooting mild 6.5's.

On the big boomers, you're looking at maybe shooting 40 rounds max in an outing. I'm not sure how the ELR competitions go, but I can't imagine they're shooting an incredible number of rounds in a day. Some quick browsing brings up a couple matches that are in the 15-30 round count range. Those 800-900 "useful" rounds after load development go a lot further than the smaller calibers.

 

[BurnOut]

Something like a 300 Norma, 300 win mag, 300 PRC, 338 Lapua, etc... Is less of a deal in my book. For the most part you're going to be taking fewer shots, and slower rates of fire with those calibers than something like a 6mm creedmoor or 6mm competition match.

For instance, you go to a PRS match with your hot 6mm, or 6.5 SAUM/WSM and burn through 120 rounds in fast-firing strings of 8-15 rounds. Well that barrel is only good for maybe 5-7 matches plus whatever practice/load development you do. And guys that compete usually have the time/money budget for it. Some people don't. It's one of the biggest factors that keeps me shooting mild 6.5's.

On the big boomers, you're looking at maybe shooting 40 rounds max in an outing. I'm not sure how the ELR competitions go, but I can't imagine they're shooting an incredible number of rounds in a day. Some quick browsing brings up a couple matches that are in the 15-30 round count range. Those 800-900 "useful" rounds after load development go a lot further than the smaller calibers.

I'll second this in regard to the big 'uns. Because I'm mentally addled, my reloading has to date been primarily focused on cartridges in the magnum class... 338 WM, 300 WM, 7 LRM, 338 LM AI. As @Ledzep stated, each outing tends to be relatively short. I think that my longest stint at the bench was with the ~12 pound 338 WM when I went through 48 rounds. I wasn't terribly bruised, but I was certainly ready to be done.

 

[airborne_trooper]

26 or 28 Nosler I hear are real hard on barrels. I have a 28 Nosler And I’ll see how long it will last.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I can only speak for the smaller calibers as I don’t mess with anything over .308 anymore these days.

Depends on what you consider a pain and what it’s worth to you.

This year I’m planning on 5k+ rnds in centerfire competitions (4k comps + zero and other things). Plus a ton of .22. I’m going to use .308/.223/.224 for practice and occasionally some club matches.

I’m sticking with 6creed as it’s easy to load for, requires no fireforming, and I can run factory ammo if I’m too busy (or lazy) to load.

For me personally, this is worth having to go through 2 or 3 barrels this year. I’m running an AI with quick change, so there’s zero work on swapping barrels. Even so, the smith I use is fairly close if I wasn’t.

If you’re running something that burns barrels, and you’re shooting enough to burn them, I’d suggest having your own barrel vice. Have 2-3 chambered barrels ready to go and swap them when you feel the barrel is done. For some that’s when the initial velocity decrease happens, and others it’s only when the rifle starts to lose its ability to group rounds well.

 

[steve123]

With my 30-375R, which is similar to 300PRC, I got 1600 rounds out of it. That's not too bad for burning 78.5 grains of powder. I didn't shoot it much and that barrel lasted 10 years. Looking back I think I couldn't have made a better choice in choosing a cartridge for what my intent was, considering recoil, component cost, etc. I even won a ELR match competing against larger cartridges.

I had one 6x47L barrel, load was hot but shot well at first, used 115 vld's, had to redo the load every 400 rounds, mostly seating depth, to keep it under 1" at 100Y, because the throat eroded so fast. Yes that was a total hassle!

I found myself grabbing other rifles out of the safe to save barrel wear on my 6x47L. The result was I lost some pizzazz in my wind intuition and feel for that particular rifle. Practice and familiarity goes a long way!

This year I switched to 6mmBR and a prefit barrel which should get me twice the barrel life, 1500 vs 3000, another 400 rounds out of a 8lb keg of powder, and already saved me $450 in smithing fee's. I'm shooting more than I was before!

 

[cageli]

A good Barrel is so expensive, in term of time, cost and effort. That’s why I buy really expensive barrel in easy calibers like 308. Fancy new squishy calibers are certainly interesting, but the fun has significant overhead coming with it.

 

[6brshooter]

Figure cost of components that it takes to burn out a 6mm hotrod. Those components cost more than that barrel. When I hear guys complain of barrel cost and hot rod 6s, I figure they dont shoot enough to burn out a 6mm anyway.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

i run a plain jane .243, considered a 2,000 round barrel. i got about 1,400 through it now, have not noticed any changes yet. but i also reload with a slower / "cooler" powder H1000. so it's a little slower than the usual FPS.

i figure if you're gonna shoot, and picked up a "barrel burner caliber" (actually erode a throat) and shoot enough to to accomplish that.....one has to just suck it up and expect to replace the barrel. otherwise pick a more barrel / throat friendly caliber.

i don't buy a chevy suburban then bitch about the miles per gallon.

 

[ThePretzel]

Figure cost of components that it takes to burn out a 6mm hotrod. Those components cost more than that barrel. When I hear guys complain of barrel cost and hot rod 6s, I figure they dont shoot enough to burn out a 6mm anyway.

This is it exactly.

If you have a 2000 round barrel life with 100 rounds for the barrel to speed up and you to find a load, that leaves you with 1,900 rounds to shoot in practice or matches. Assuming you only shoot it at PRS style matches, that's 19 club matches or ~7-8 national level 2-day matches. That's $400-800 in club match fees ($20-40 each) or $1,750-2,000 in national match fees ($250/each). Plus you have 1,900 bullets ($608 at 32 cents each), 76,000 grains of powder ($250 at 40gr/round and $23/pound), 1,900 primers ($75 at 4 cents each), and all the time you spent loading this ammo. In ammo costs alone you're looking at nearly $1,000 (more if you buy new brass for your new barrel) without even factoring in all the match fees and travel costs associated with going out to actually shoot the ammo.

A good barrel will cost you $500-850 depending on where you get it, meaning if you paid $650 for the barrel it's costing you $0.325/round to shoot it with a $2,000 round life. Matches and bullets are often more expensive than that on their own, so the barrel itself isn't even the most expensive part of shooting even for the barrel burner 6's. The reason I shoot 6BR isn't so that I can save money by replacing barrels less often, but so that I can confidently go an entire season without having to worry about replacing the barrel even if I have a busy year (I plan to shoot 1-2 club matches per month, a few national matches, and a fair bit of a practice on both steel and prairie dogs).

 

[cageli]

My experience is different. My hot rod 6, namely 6creed, went south around 1300-1400. If they have 2000 life yeah I will be fine as I consider my 308 as 3000 round barrel. I think each has their own definition but I do have a hard time to believe 6creed goes 2000 with normal competition load and shooting style.

To me the major pain is the overhead above money, while money is also a problem at this kind of barrel life.

Anyway it’s more like a discussion so don’t get worked up too much, I have switched to 6.5 and plan to stay there.

 

[6brshooter]

I've gotten along good with criterion savage and remage barrels. 300-375, ready to spin on. Shoots as good as my shouldered barts and kriegers (.2-.3s), only downside is I have a subjectively ugly barrel nut. I can swap barrels in 15 min and they are cheap enough that I can buy 2 at a time, same price as 1 bart+ smith fees. I tend to run these prefits hard, like 243ai 105s @3250-3280, which is still shooting .2s at 1200rds but has slowed to 3190.

 

[cageli]

I've gotten along good with criterion savage and remage barrels. 300-375, ready to spin on. Shoots as good as my shouldered barts and kriegers (.2-.3s), only downside is I have a subjectively ugly barrel nut. I can swap barrels in 15 min and they are cheap enough that I can buy 2 at a time, same price as 1 bart+ smith fees. I tend to run these prefits hard, like 243ai 105s @3250-3280, which is still shooting .2s at 1200rds but has slowed to 3190.

Yeah criterion and prefit are some really good stuff we got recently. Mine shot half moa so far haven’t seen any .2 but that could be my shooting reloading.

 

[shields shtr]

For instance, you go to a PRS match with your hot 6mm, or 6.5 SAUM/WSM and burn through 120 rounds in fast-firing strings of 8-15 rounds. Well that barrel is only good for maybe 5-7 matches plus whatever practice/load development you do. And guys that compete usually have the time/money budget for it. Some people don't. It's one of the biggest factors that keeps me shooting mild 6.5's.

I was really worried about barrel life when I chambered my 6 Creed. I don't know if I am just lucky, or if it's the barrel, but I am on about 1500 rounds and counting and have noticed zero accuracy loss. Most of my rounds have come from practical rifle type matches with 10-12 round strings of fire. Usually average about 10 or 12 rounds in 2.5-3 minutes. I am running 108s and 110s at about 3k fps, maybe I am not pushing them as hard as some of the folks that are going through barrels faster?

 

[264win]

Agree with posters above. Barrel life/ cost is really a comparatively small concern.
I run mostly 6mms and don’t give it a thought. Buy an extra barrel or 3 and keep shooting.
Lots of great options for pre fit barrels that can be changed at home by anyone remotely hand.

Support your local Gun plumber, lol

 

[6brshooter]

Yeah criterion and prefit are some really good stuff we got recently. Mine shot half moa so far haven’t seen any .2 but that could be my shooting reloading.

2 6br barrels, a 243 8 tw, a 243ai 8tw, and a new 243 7.5tw. All have shot groups in the .2s, at 100 and shot some 2.5-3" at 809yds. I'm comparing to 4+kriegers and 5+ barts, they hang with them and are better than the 2 brux and shilen I've had.

 

[6brshooter]

Agree with posters above. Barrel life/ cost is really a comparatively small concern.
I run mostly 6mms and don’t give it a thought. Buy an extra barrel or 3 and keep shooting.
Lots of great options for pre fit barrels that can be changed at home by anyone remotely hand.

Support your local Gun plumber, lol

Yep. When I ordered a 243 7.5tw, in stock at nss, I went ahead and ordered a 243ai 24" varmint 7.5tw. It should be here in 3 mo. I've got 1600 110smk to shoot in this 243 at 3090, that should finish it. I might get a hair more life, but I wouldn't bank on it and I'm not worried about it.

 

[steve123]

True story, a sad one at that;

Back then, not really understanding how many rounds a barrel would get in 6x47L. Burning N160, R17 and settling on H4350, I had my first barrel go during a match at 2400 rounds. I wasn't happy that it went down during the match but I was happy with the 2400 rounds it lasted. On friday I could keep all rounds inside a 1" paister, by sunday I was lucky to hit a 1" Paister. I had a new barrel within 2 months using the same reamer. EDIT - Looking back maybe it was that I was using N160 and that gave longer barrel life because of it's cooler flame temp???

During the same 2 day match one year later with this 2nd barrel, I'm not exaggerating here, the exact same thing happened but at 1500 rounds using H4350. On Sunday in the last stage I was hitting hostage heads in a 100Y paper stage, 1.6" groups basically, man was I pissed!!!!! I got a higher finish but I would have placed top 5 with a good barrel.

I had the next barrel melonited, it went during a local match at 2900 rounds using H4350 and H4831sc.

This last barrel went 1600 and had slowed down 77 fps when I pulled it and I finally didn't have a barrel go down in a match, lol, I learned. This was all with H4831sc.

I estimate I would have won $500-$1000 more in prize value if I'd gone with a low round count barrel to those 2 day matches.

There's always the thing of ones disposable income, need we go into that??? I would care less about buying premium blanks and having shouldered barrels smithed, if I could afford the $1600 a year to do it right the way I'd want to.

Personally I won't take a barrel in a hot 6 to a big match past 1200 rounds anymore, if I go to one.

 

[264win]

Re barrel life on hot 6mms
In match rifles I expect 1100-1200 rounds of barrel life running H4350,
Less if running a suppressor.
It takes a little planning if you have a bunch of matches lined up, but that is part of the fun

 

[Covertnoob5]

Not to derail the thread but what do you guys do when with the actual barrel when it’s really shot out? Just pulled my 6.5 creed cause it’ll barely hold 2.5” at 100 yards little over 3k rounds on it. First barrel I’ve ever burned.

 

[Cas7980]

I just got a Brux barrel I am cutting into 6 dasher. Hope to get 1500ish out of it

 

[samb300]

I can only speak for the smaller calibers as I don’t mess with anything over .308 anymore these days.

Depends on what you consider a pain and what it’s worth to you.

This year I’m planning on 5k+ rnds in centerfire competitions (4k comps + zero and other things). Plus a ton of .22. I’m going to use .308/.223/.224 for practice and occasionally some club matches.

I’m sticking with 6creed as it’s easy to load for, requires no fireforming, and I can run factory ammo if I’m too busy (or lazy) to load.

For me personally, this is worth having to go through 2 or 3 barrels this year. I’m running an AI with quick change, so there’s zero work on swapping barrels. Even so, the smith I use is fairly close if I wasn’t.

If you’re running something that burns barrels, and you’re shooting enough to burn them, I’d suggest having your own barrel vice. Have 2-3 chambered barrels ready to go and swap them when you feel the barrel is done. For some that’s when the initial velocity decrease happens, and others it’s only when the rifle starts to lose its ability to group rounds well.

Serious question, not being snarky. How many matches are you going to shoot in 2019? 4-5000 match rounds seems crazy to me, plus adding in other practice. That would be like 50 club matches at 80 rounds each, or 20 2-day matches at 200 rounds each.

Not calling you out or saying guys don’t do it, but when I’ve shot 2500 rounds in a year it felt like I was shooting a lot.

 

[cageli]

I just got a Brux barrel I am cutting into 6 dasher. Hope to get 1500ish out of it

I heard dasher is a bit better, like 1800 normal match use.

 

[264win]

When shooting a full match season, I used to figure on needing 500 rounds per month. A match or two plus a few practice sessions.

 

[cageli]

I always practice/validate before each match, for like 30-40 shots, which didn’t help barrel life at all......

 

[Dthomas3523]

Serious question, not being snarky. How many matches are you going to shoot in 2019? 4-5000 match rounds seems crazy to me, plus adding in other practice. That would be like 50 club matches at 80 rounds each, or 20 2-day matches at 200 rounds each.

Not calling you out or saying guys don’t do it, but when I’ve shot 2500 rounds in a year it felt like I was shooting a lot.

20 club matches planned(minimum) = 2,000

3 two day matches = 600(conservatively)

4 one day non club matches = 500

I’m shooting about 100 rnds a week practice this year. 223/.308 also .22(not including those in numbers).

Important note: I have a good job, single, and no kids.

 

[cageli]

20 club matches planned(minimum) = 2,000

3 two day matches = 600(conservatively)

4 one day non club matches = 500

I’m shooting about 100 rnds a week practice this year. 223/.308 also .22(not including those in numbers).

Important note: I have a good job, single, and no kids.

The note really helps!!!

 

[ThePretzel]

Serious question, not being snarky. How many matches are you going to shoot in 2019? 4-5000 match rounds seems crazy to me, plus adding in other practice. That would be like 50 club matches at 80 rounds each, or 20 2-day matches at 200 rounds each.

Not calling you out or saying guys don’t do it, but when I’ve shot 2500 rounds in a year it felt like I was shooting a lot.

I'm shooting 2 club matches a month, 3-4 national matches, and regularly practicing in between with prairie dogs and other varmints. This come out to about 2,500-3,000 match rounds plus whatever I shoot for practice. It's part of why I went with 6BR, so that I could shoot an entire season without burning my barrel out in the middle of summer.

For reference last year I burnt out my previous 6.5 Creedmoor barrel in May. It started with 2,000 rounds on it and was toast by May with 3,500 rounds on it using a similar schedule to my plan for this year.

 

[Lynn Jr]

I shoot a few rifles chambered in 6mm-06 and the barrels are toast pretty quickly. 57 grains of H1000 pushes a 103-108 grain bullet at 3425 FPS and 800 rounds is about it.
Barrels run $350 plus another $350 for the installation.
The gun in the picture is my 375/50BMG and the barrel is expected to last 400 rounds. Barrel cost $700 and the installation with the muzzlebrake is another $650 or $1350 for 400 rounds. Bullets run $3 each and I use 208 grains of VV20N29 powder at $268 plus Hazmat. RWS Primers are 50 cents each and brass is $5 a case for RWS or Lapua.
On a situation like mine you do the quickest work up you can which is around 40 rounds or 10% of your barrels accuracy life.
When you order your barrel you get enough shank length so it can be setback and also recrowned. The first barrel gets used for practice and fireforming and the second barrel is used for matches that count.
My 338 SnipeTac barrels are good for around 600 rounds.
Are they a pain that all depends on your goals.
The picture shows a Remington 700 next to the 375/50 BMG and the larger second barrel for matches. Sorry about the picture quality I fell on my phone.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Also depends on use. If it's a hunting round, barrel round may be less important, than velocity. There won't be a blood trail on a 30-378 for deer (DRT) and that barrel may well last a lifetime, a .220 swift on prairie dogs may last 7 days.