Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?

[MoBoost]

Ask ANY of the competent and renowened LR/Precision Shooting instructors what their thoughts on savages are. You know, the guys that see 6-12 new rifles every week or other week for years.....people from all walks of life bringing every brand of gear made...........

EVERY SINGLE ONE, I have spoken with, has said that they are absolute junk. A handfull of them even claimed, they have yet to see 1 (One, UNO) make it through one of their classes without seizing up or having a parts failure. That is all you need to know about savage.

Two of my friends just went through Badlands Sniper Course using Savages - finished top of their class. No failures. All first rounds hits except for one between the two of them (600 rounds in three days).
Steve Suttles was the instructor (63 confirmed kills, 1250 yard confirmed kill).

I have personally put 10s of thousands of rounds through my Savages in the last 8 years - no failures, so call me biased.

 

[MoBoost]

Lol it takes 1 MOA to win

Yes it does - if you can shoot 1 MOA in F-Class you'll be uncontested world champion in no time.

Savage is competent?

Said and said it again - yes they are. The fact that you can't see past a green "R" is not my fault.

But it takes an arms race to win.

Yes, PRS is not equipment regulated and therefore is an arms race. Look at any other shooting sport to get a freaking clue.

Oh and using a Remington or clone makes you a snob.

Using one doesn't make you a snob, blindly bashing anything that isn't DOES!

The idiot is now ignored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYGxWGduCCQ

 

[bmt]

Define competent.

Amen. If a guy is shooting well and enjoying himself. Then it is fine. If he wants to wins national competitions, there may be better options.

BMT

 

[bmt]

Extraction is less of an issue in my experience than weak ejection.

Agree. I have run my savage at ThunderRanch Oregon Mid range rifle and HART classes. I will be running it this summer at Urban precision rifle.

I have also hunted with it in the wet Western Oregon rain and the dry California valleys.

It runs fine IF YOU DO NOT LUBE THE BOLT INTERNALLY. When I clean the rifle, I blast the bolt all over with brake cleaner. It extracts and ejects every time. If you get a bunch of gun oil in it and let it get dusty, it will EXTRACT FINE. But the empty case will be sitting on top of the rounds in the magazine. This will, of course, cause a jam. Keep the bolt CLEAN and dry, it will work under harsh conditions.

BMT

 

[pawprint2]

After studying the "what the pros use-top 50" data, that is so well presented, I actually don't see anybody running a "stock" 700, there are 5 "trued" 700's in the top 50, but there is also 4 Bighorn actions. In my mind (and I know I'm going to catch hell for this) the Bighorn is a custom Savage, as a Surgeon is a custom 700. What is really interesting is the AI only had 2 in the top 50. This may somewhat put an end to those touting these actions/rifles as the top of the heap. Between Surgeon 23, and Templar16, they account for 78% of all the actions used by the top competitors, trued Remingtons 10%, Bighorn 8%, AI and Tikka T3 4% each. I don't know the cost to the last cent, but I'm not sure a Templar action is that much more (if at all) than a professionally trued 700. Looking at the actual numbers for the last two years (running one year behind), If you actually want to build a rig capable of high end comps, you'll need a Surgeon action, McMillan Stock, shoot a 6mm of some kind, heavy on the S&B for optics..... The actual equipment list does not lie.

 

[tylerw02]

Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?

Lol I don't shoot a Remington and could care less about them. You obviously haven't paid attention.

So if a Savage is just as good, runs flawlessly, and shoots MOA, how the hell is it an arms race? What more do you need than savage, as good as you say they are? What does the custom action and trued 700s do the Savage doesn't? What advantage is there?

You've never shot one, but swear it's an arms race because of no restrictions. Ok, what kind of restrictions do you suggest?

By the way, there is usually a speed limit of 3100 FPS usually and .300 or .338 magnum restriction.

Too bad tapatalk won't let me ignore you. Guess I have to wait til I'm on a computer.




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[MoBoost]

What does the custom action and true 700s do the Savage doesn't? What advantage is there?

Aftermarket action will be truer, smoother and faster than any factory offering. PRS is a timed event - speed matters. In any other discipline factory Savage actions do just fine, and often dominate. Why tactical shooters are so afraid to peek outside their little dark box - is beyond me.

Then again, we are talking about the guys that can't use 6BR because "spotters miss good hits" ...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Real lyfe dawg

 

[ahhshoot]

After studying the "what the pros use-top 50" data, that is so well presented, I actually don't see anybody running a "stock" 700, there are 5 "trued" 700's in the top 50, but there is also 4 Bighorn actions. In my mind (and I know I'm going to catch hell for this) the Bighorn is a custom Savage, as a Surgeon is a custom 700. What is really interesting is the AI only had 2 in the top 50. This may somewhat put an end to those touting these actions/rifles as the top of the heap. Between Surgeon 23, and Templar16, they account for 78% of all the actions used by the top competitors, trued Remingtons 10%, Bighorn 8%, AI and Tikka T3 4% each. I don't know the cost to the last cent, but I'm not sure a Templar action is that much more (if at all) than a professionally trued 700. Looking at the actual numbers for the last two years (running one year behind), If you actually want to build a rig capable of high end comps, you'll need a Surgeon action, McMillan Stock, shoot a 6mm of some kind, heavy on the S&B for optics..... The actual equipment list does not lie.

the bighorn is not based on the savage. The bighorn is based on the 700 . The only thing related to savage on the bighorn is the floating bolt face design. I owned one as I did a build based on the bighorn tl 2 Sa in 6.5 Creedmoor. Was a great action, superior to the 700and the savage.





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[pawprint2]

I failed to make my point, the floating bolt head on the Bighorn, is more akin to a Savage than any other small manufacturers action, as a Surgeon is more closely related to a Remington 700. In any case, when one studies the top 50 PRS shooters gear, one fact jumps out at you, Surgeon and Templar dominate the landscape, Remington actions that have been Trued (and very likely have an after market bolt and handle along with an after market recoil lug) only make up 10% of the field. Those arguing what "can be" are in an up hill climb, when trying to overcome the two leaders, Surgeon and Templar. When you add up all the "other" actions other than Surgeon and Templar, combined only make up 22% of the field.

 

[tylerw02]

Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?

Aftermarket action will be truer, smoother and faster than any factory offering. PRS is a timed event - speed matters. In any other discipline factory Savage actions do just fine, and often dominate. Why tactical shooters are so afraid to peek outside their little dark box - is beyond me.

Then again, we are talking about the guys that can't use 6BR because "spotters miss good hits" ...

Lol last match I shot there were some 6 BRs and .223s. The guy shooting a 6 BR I believe was top 5.

So smoothness of the action makes it an arms race? Savage is not smooth enough, but it is just as good, just as accurate, runs flawlessly? I'm kind of confused. So the guy running a Savage can't win because its not smooth enough, but give him an aftermarket action and he can? So us pointing out that Savage is not the best tool for the job (even though its just as good, but not because its not smooth enough) means we're snobs for the arms race?

You say Savage is just as good.

You say PRS and similar type matches are an arms race because there are no "rules".

You say Savage isn't good enough because the other actions are better.

You've done a 360 from them being good enough to not being good enough.

By the way, there are rules---speed limits and caliber restrictions at most, if not all PRS and similar style matches.

So aside from flip-flopping, you don't know how it works, you've never shot one of the matches, and you feel qualified to offer advice as to what equipment is good enough. Foot in mouth much?

By the way, guys like Wade, Chase, Jim See, John Sommers, and pretty much all those guys could be winning matches with a factory Howa in .223 or .308---that doesn't make it the best tool for the job, but rather an indicator of their skills. The shooter is the most important part of the system. Period. It so happens most good shooters seek the best suited tool for them and that isn't a Savage, that isn't putting down guys for Savage or being a snob. If a guy wants to roof a house with a finish hammer, telling him why you use a roofing hammer wouldn't make him a snob. Why such an emotional attachment to savage? I started on Howa, Ruger, and Remington. I admit they aren't the best. That doesn't hurt my ego one bit. Not does it hurt my ego to get my butt beat at the bigger matches I attend. It's not the gear, it's that there are guys better at positional shooting on the clock. I've learned a lot of lessons on the way with gear that doesn't function like it should, throwing ME off my game.

Now that I'm on an actual computer, I won't have to see your garbage posts anymore.

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[MoBoost]

Lol last match I shot there were some 6 BRs and .223s. The guy shooting a 6 BR I believe was too 5.

So smoothness of the action makes it an arms race?


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So, you are saying that in PRS you are better off shooting 223 in any other action than shooting a Savage in any caliber .... cool story bro!

 

[7fingers]

I lold at your bigfoot remark... Yes maybe not all savages were as accurate as mine. I did have a heavy shilen sm on there and other fine components. I am not a 'savage shooter.' just a dude who had a savage. And u may be right because I've shot guns and bows since I was a little kid and was an archery instructor for a couple of years for junior Olympians. So I know fundamentals that go into all shooting principles. But if I had the gun and my handloads I could throw down 5 or more groups in one session without a problem. But I think we've hijacked the thread. The op wanted to know if savages could be competent tactical rifles, not whether they are .25 MOA shooters. And I understand durability is a factor there, as well as reliability. However, to say that there are no .25 moa savages, is just plain not true. We must agree to disagree. Good day friend.



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Five shots 100 yards 6.5x47 Lapua

 

[ahhshoot]

Ok. Well with all the bs being spewed in this thread, let's remember the question was whether a Savage can be made into a competent tactical gun.

The answer: YES

Is it the ideal choice? In the opinion of many, NO

Does everybody like Savages? NO

Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?

YES

But I must warn you. Harley Davidson's have been made into competent superbikes. Cannondales have been made into competent motocross bikes. While 'competent' they weren't ideal and didn't do very well. It's kind of a loaded question because you can throw enough money at a school bus and it will run a sub 10 second 1/4 mile. The savage is a well priced accurate rifle that will have reliability beyond the needs of 99% of the people who own them and if you want to throw some money at it to make it a competitor, go ahead. These guys spend $4 and $5k on their customs and modded 700's before glass and with that amount of money you could overcome the shortcomings of the factory Savage platform. The 700 footprint has an advantage because it's been around for a long time and it's kind of like the Chevy 350, you can get a bunch of parts for it, that's the main advantage in my opinion.

 

[ahhshoot]

Five shots 100 yards 6.5x47 Lapua

Very nice, but...

 

[pawprint2]

Based on actual historical data, all opinions aside, can an AI every be a competitive gun? There are the same number of Tikka T-3s in the PRS top 50 (but still only two of each). What is it about the AI that keeps them being competitive, is it the stock, weight, accuracy? I'd like to hear some opinions. I have to agree with ahhshoot's point, if one were sink 4-5 thousand dollars into a rifle that still had some of the savage action, would it be a competitive rifle? My guess is yes. By some of the Savage action, I mean that in the same way some rifles have some of their original 700s, After market bolt, after market handle, after market recoil lug, threads re-cut, squaring etc. etc. (no one would, in good faith, call that a 700 action, but rather a Trued action). The surprising thing, when you study the top 50 equipment list, are the Tikkas! Sako builds good stuff, but the T-3 is running with far more expensive actions. It is usually not fair to compare a x to y if they have far different costs, but in this case it does!

 

[tylerw02]

Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?

You are over-thinking it....

IF all the bugs are worked out any action will work. It's a lot about shooter preference.

AI is more than accurate enough and more reliable than anything else. Lots of guys don't like the weight penalty. Equipped AIs are 17-20 lbs. When on the clock, it can be slow.

A guy can put together a good reliable 700 clone build in the 12-14 lb range.

Another issue with AIs is that they strike the primer with a lot of force. This isn't good for rounds like 6XC, 6.5x47, etc.

I adjusted the firing pin in my AI and still had to back it off to run my .260. Normal loads that were good in the custom actions with small firing pins would pierce primers. I ended up slowing mine down to the mid to upper 2700s to keep it from happening. I could hit a node up in the upper 2800 range with mine and stay in the node, but it would pierce the occasional primer.

The third reason is cost. Custom guns can be built a little cheaper than the cost of an AX or AW. With the new AT comin in cheaper with a the quick change barrels, you may see more.

At our club matches you may see four or five AIs, and often an AI shooter will win. The last PRS match I went to I think Team GAP shooters filled up the top 5, but I recall several good shooters with AIs.

I know some very good shooters that run Tikkas and have great success. They are just overlooked probably for smith preference and smaller aftermarket support.


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[E. Bryant]

Two of my friends just went through Badlands Sniper Course using Savages - finished top of their class. No failures. All first rounds hits except for one between the two of them (600 rounds in three days).

One miss out of 600 shots sounds like a very easy course of fire; almost boring, in fact. Doesn't sound like the instructor was properly challenging these two students, regardless of skill level or equipment.

I have personally put 10s of thousands of rounds through my Savages in the last 8 years - no failures, so call me biased.

If you are claiming a five-figure round count between failures, that's hugely impressive (especially if we are not discounting any failures that one may have tended to incorrectly attribute to ammunition or the ever-popular "user error"). Either that is a miraculously reliable weapons system, or it's never been exposed to any environmental challenges.

 

[pawprint2]

You are over-thinking it....

IF all the bugs are worked out any action will work. It's a lot about shooter preference.

AI is more than accurate enough and more reliable than anything else. Lots of guys don't like the weight penalty. Equipped AIs are 17-20 lbs. When on the clock, it can be slow.

A guy can put together a good reliable 700 clone build in the 12-14 lb range.

Another issue with AIs is that they strike the primer with a lot of force. This isn't good for rounds like 6XC, 6.5x47, etc.

I adjusted the firing pin in my AI and still had to back it off to run my .260. Normal loads that were good in the custom actions with small firing pins would pierce primers. I ended up slowing mine down to the mid to upper 2700s to keep it from happening. I could hit a node up in the upper 2800 range with mine and stay in the node, but it would piece

The third reason is cost. Custom guns can be built a little cheaper than the cost of an AX or AW. With the new AT comin in cheaper with a the quick change barrels, you may see more.

At our club matches you may see four or five AIs, and often an AI shooter will win. The last PRS match I went to I think Team GAP shooters filled up the top 5, but I recall several good shooters with AIs.

the occasional primer.

I know some very good shooters that run Tikkas and have great success. They are just overlooked probably for smith preference and smaller aftermarket support.


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Do you have any data that can back-up your assertion that an AI is "More reliable than anything else"? I wasn't referring to the guys that go to matches, but rather the top 50, as posted. I have no doubt guys do shoot matches with AI's, in fact two of the top 50 shoot AI's. It does seem a little strange, that the "best sniper rifle in the world", only makes up 4% of the top rifles used by the top 50 competitors! When you say the AI is more reliable than anything else, do you have any data on the failure rates for rifles using surgeon and/or Templar actions?

 

[tylerw02]

PRS isn't about snipers. Its not a sniper competition. I bet there are not many active duty snipers shooting PRS with issue gear. It's a game.

I some know of any compilation of data of surgeon vs defiance vs AI failures. I do know that you can do a search here on the hide and read about lots of surgeons having issues. I saw a Templar, I believe it was, go down at a PRS match. I think the guy shared a bolt with a fellow team member to finish the match.

I recall only thread ever on the hide about an issue with an AI and it was with one particular ammo.

You may do a search and see what you can find. I know Jacob Bynam is alleged to have put over 100k rounds on his AI action...over 20 barrels.






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[D_TROS]

...

 

[E. Bryant]

Based on actual historical data, all opinions aside, can an AI every be a competitive gun?

This question is like determining which pickup to buy for hauling firewood based upon the results of the NASCAR Camping World Truck series.

While a phenomenal job has been done on mining and presenting the PRS data, it may not be relevant for most shooters. At the time of this post, there are 103,987 users of this forum; what 50 guys use in a particular regional series has little bearing on the exact needs of any one shooter. If the stated task for a rifle is "winning PRS matches", then by all means follow the blueprint suggested by the data; if that's not the firearm's job description, then don't ask like a parrot or lemming (the distinction between the two being "talking about it" and "actually doing it").

 

[Short-bus]

It's the Indian, not the arrow folks. I'll bet the top shooters in PRS would do just as well with a Savage as they would with a high end custom. There are some things that you can't get with the Savage, a rem trigger is a prime example, I love those triggers, and haven't found a Savage upgrade that feels the same. Bolt lift isn't as smooth, but who cares when you're busy working on hitting targets. Aftermarket options are not as broad as Remmy or others, but it's not lacking either. I've been shooting my Savage at a bunch of matches, it has worked for me in the past, and there's no reason to suspect that it wouldn't work in the future. Quit wasting you're time on here arguing about whether one is better than the other. You can buy the fanciest whizzbang doodad available, but if you can't shoot, you won't shoot any better with all the gadgets in the world. Just get something and shoot a few barrels out with it, and stop worrying about the brand stamped on the side.

Branden

 

[Deleted member 10043]

No not really pointed at you or anyone, Just pro savage propaganda with some smart ass extra thrown in for flavor.
Luckily for me is the key line hear.
I buy my savage, pull the barrel in the middle of the night in my bath robe all by myself.
Send one email out to any number of sources for a aluminum framed stock, some devcon and scope mount, one more email to one of any number of sources for a barrel, then go to sleep.
A week later I open some boxes slap it all together all by my lonesome, go to the range and shoot 1/4 inch groups working up a load.
Pat myself on the back as if I accomplished something miraculous and take great pride in $1k .25 moa rifle built in a week in my bathrobe.
Or I buy a remington and a spendy trigger and a barrel blank that costs almost the same as a savage prefit. Then a smith, hope he knows what he's doing. Hope he can do it this year. Pay him a tidey some to get my action trued up and and chambered and headspaced etc. etc.
My only real point and target is that the savage has come along way. After market for savage has also.

That's kinda weird. If it is .30 caliber and your group is 1/4 moa at 100 yards than how did you manage to measure a group smaller than the hole? Are you sure it is not something like .308 moa?

I have a stock Model 12 except for the HS stock. It shoots 3/4+ moa with handloads but I can't shoot 3/4 moa half the time. I will say it takes 3 grains less powder to get the same fps from my 40x. It's a nice factory rifle.

 

[Short-bus]

That's kinda weird. If it is .30 caliber and your group is 1/4 moa at 100 yards than how did you manage to measure a group smaller than the hole? Are you sure it is not something like .308 moa?

I have a stock Model 12 except for the HS stock. It shoots 3/4+ moa with handloads but I can't shoot 3/4 moa half the time. I will say it takes 3 grains less powder to get the same fps from my 40x. It's a nice factory rifle.

 

[MarinePMI]

Short Bus,

Was thinking the same thing myself...

Culpeper,

The group is measured center-to-center. So, measure the overall group size and subtract .308"...

 

[MoBoost]

One miss out of 600 shots sounds like a very easy course of fire; almost boring, in fact. Doesn't sound like the instructor was properly challenging these two students, regardless of skill level or equipment.

Shooting "barn doors" for proficient F-Class shooters is indeed rather boring... However, the group of people in the class was very diverse, some had to take a whole extra day to get the required hit percent to "pass". What I said has honestly nothing to do with "hits" or "challenges" - just the fact that Savages made it through a well-established and respected sniper course with exceptional excellence.

If you are claiming a five-figure round count between failures, that's hugely impressive (especially if we are not discounting any failures that one may have tended to incorrectly attribute to ammunition or the ever-popular "user error"). Either that is a miraculously reliable weapons system, or it's never been exposed to any environmental challenges.

I clean ejector and extractor about every brick of primers, I replace the springs with barrels. I don't throw my rifles in a swamp on purpose - but they do get drug through the field pretty hard during deer and prairie dog hunting.

 

[ahhshoot]

That's kinda weird. If it is .30 caliber and your group is 1/4 moa at 100 yards than how did you manage to measure a group smaller than the hole? Are you sure it is not something like .308 moa?

I have a stock Model 12 except for the HS stock. It shoots 3/4+ moa with handloads but I can't shoot 3/4 moa half the time. I will say it takes 3 grains less powder to get the same fps from my 40x. It's a nice factory rifle.

What if you owned a .50 cal... and you had to shoot a .00MOA group...to shoot a .5MOA group...

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Short Bus,

Was thinking the same thing myself...

Culpeper,

The group is measured center-to-center. So, measure the overall group size and subtract .308"...

I know. I've been awake for 27 hours. Also, it should be .03 not .3. 41 grains vs 44 grains.

 

[high right]

It's the Indian, not the arrow folks. I'll bet the top shooters in PRS would do just as well with a Savage as they would with a high end custom. There are some things that you can't get with the Savage, a rem trigger is a prime example, I love those triggers, and haven't found a Savage upgrade that feels the same. Bolt lift isn't as smooth, but who cares when you're busy working on hitting targets. Aftermarket options are not as broad as Remmy or others, but it's not lacking either. I've been shooting my Savage at a bunch of matches, it has worked for me in the past, and there's no reason to suspect that it wouldn't work in the future. Quit wasting you're time on here arguing about whether one is better than the other. You can buy the fanciest whizzbang doodad available, but if you can't shoot, you won't shoot any better with all the gadgets in the world. Just get something and shoot a few barrels out with it, and stop worrying about the brand stamped on the side.

Branden

++1!

 

[Deleted member 10043]

What if you owned a .50 cal... and you had to shoot a .00MOA group...to shoot a .5MOA group...

I resemble that guy.

 

[ahhshoot]

I resemble that guy.

LOL. I had to man, you put it out there... like a beautiful set in volleyball. Happens to the best of us...just don't mix up the decimal when you are actually reloading haha

 

[Deleted member 10043]

No problem. It has been more like 36 hours

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[E. Bryant]

Shooting "barn doors" for proficient F-Class shooters is indeed rather boring... However, the group of people in the class was very diverse, some had to take a whole extra day to get the required hit percent to "pass". What I said has honestly nothing to do with "hits" or "challenges" - just the fact that Savages made it through a well-established and respected sniper course with exceptional excellence.

So hitting a bunch of targets the size of "barn doors" (your words) qualifies as "exceptional excellence". OK, then, I guess we know where the bar has been set.

I don't have significant problems with the Savage rifle - got my start with a few of 'em, the performance-to-price ratio is quite good, they are obviously attractive to the home gunsmithing set, and the aftermarket support has come a long way in the past decade. But I also don't think that they are God's gift to man, or even that they are superior to the benchmark in this class.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I SET THE BAR ON GROUP SIZE!

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[HodgdonExtreme]

I also don't think that they are God's gift to man, or even that they are superior to the benchmark in this class.

Then you're clearly an elitist gear snob.

Away with you!

 

[Short-bus]

Culpeper, you must be young. I can't do more than 18 hours without sleep or a nap anymore, getting too old, lol.

Branden

 

[tylerw02]

With the last few months you've had, you've earned some sleep, Bus.


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[MoBoost]

So hitting a bunch of targets the size of "barn doors" (your words) qualifies as "exceptional excellence". OK, then, I guess we know where the bar has been set.

Man, I am not sure what you are digging for. The bar was set shooting at 1/2MOA X-ring in F-class.

 

[pawprint2]

This question is like determining which pickup to buy for hauling firewood based upon the results of the NASCAR Camping World Truck series.

While a phenomenal job has been done on mining and presenting the PRS data, it may not be relevant for most shooters. At the time of this post, there are 103,987 users of this forum; what 50 guys use in a particular regional series has little bearing on the exact needs of any one shooter. If the stated task for a rifle is "winning PRS matches", then by all means follow the blueprint suggested by the data; if that's not the firearm's job description, then don't ask like a parrot or lemming (the distinction between the two being "talking about it" and "actually doing it").

When and if one reads the opening post on this thread, it would become obvious, even to those with poor reading and comprehension skills, that the PRS was not only in the mind of the original poster, but also in the first sentence of his post! Of course, my question was and is directly related to the question raised by the first poster-the man who started the string. For those wanting to discuss why PRS data is not relevant for the vast number of those reading the Hide, perhaps they should start a new string. "What 50 guys use....", is a dimwitted observation-to say the very least. As it is not 50 guys, but the TOP 50 guys(Bryant, this means there were more than 50-the data is for the TOP 50, hope this helps), over a two year period. For those that do not believe anything can be learned from this data, they are entitled to their opinion. I on the other hand believe a lot can be learned from this very well researched and presented data. When the 50 top competitors (not just 50 guys in some region) heavily favor a given piece of equipment, I believe it deserves serious consideration, just as the equipment they don't favor deserves to be asked, why not? E. Bryant already know all there is to know, about hauling wood and watching NASCAR, but as this string was/is regarding "competent tactical rifle", and the first sentence mentions PRS as a measure of that competition, I believe it is better to stay on point.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Culpeper, you must be young. I can't do more than 18 hours without sleep or a nap anymore, getting too old, lol.

Branden

55 But quality is shot.

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[E. Bryant]

I on the other hand believe a lot can be learned from this very well researched and presented data.

Well, you certainly haven't demonstrated any of that learning potential by spewing the same stuff repeatedly. If you feel differently, then why not weigh on this topic with your observations and opinions based upon your experience?

Crickets, I anticipate.

 

[E. Bryant]

Man, I am not sure what you are digging for.

I wasn't digging for anything; just trying to reflect back your own exact words in a fashion that exposes their intrinsic silliness.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Back to the original poster. A lot of opinions for something that a lot of people think is shit up to and including opinions by the Intelligentsia Class Struggle. This is my POS but it will hit what I aim at and some people are not fortunate enough to have even a POS like this one. If you need proof just go to some Walmart in the country and watch people ask if they can put that Marlin on layaway. It is a Model 12 Varmint .308 for those that can't identify a Savage. From what I read some people would like you to believe they have never been near one in their entire lives. No respectable person would show up at their ranges with a Savage. I think everything there including the Fred Sled is approx. $2400 so they are not fucking cheap to set up and if a person has to say they can spend more just for the sake of saying it than they probably have a little dick too. People talk a lot about the trigger. I have it set at 2 lbs and I'm glad I don't feel the shit others describe otherwise I would worry about it. People talk a lot about the bolt being uncomfortable or some shit like that. I find it no different than a Remington. It pushes the cartridge in and pulls the case out no different and unlike others I have shot in blowing dirt with this rifle because we actually have blowing dirt here and the bolt works fine. Is it Operator As Fuck? Of course not. Do you see a rail on the barrel. No. There is no marking on the rifle that make people cream all over themselves. It is not a Mack truck but it is still durable. I can shoot it as long as I want and I don't see it changing its attitude on me. I have other rifles that are much "better" and more "expensive". I really don't see any difference at the end of the day that would cause me to go hungry. I can't give the scope credit either because it is a POS too. To the OP, the answer to your question is yes the design is "competent" and marketed to the masses whatever that really means but no you won't be bringing home any trophies from Ohio or Las Vegas and it is probably not because of the rifle and who gives a shit. And if you really think outside the box if some POS Savage like this one was in the wrong hands and our military captured it they would be creaming all over it, "This here is a fucking dangerous precision weapon that could have taken a lot of lives in the right hands. It is a good thing Bob there found it in the trunk of that asshole's car. But the asshole isn't talking, which is a bad thing because we would really like to know how he got it." So it is all eye of the beholder. Shit, I'm missing The Voice. Sorry about the long tirade.

 

[pawprint2]

I am amazed at the sheer stupidity of E. Bryant (not really I've read his stupidity on this board in the past), but to completely by pass the Fact that he/she believes the Top 50 PRS shooters are not just the top 50, but the only fifty, and that they all live in the same region of our country! I am not that interest in one guys "this is the greatest thing on earth B.S.", as I'm sure most of the readers on this board aren't. One man's opinion (and E. bryants man/woman? even he/she doesn't know) is just that. Now, on the other hand, look at what is winning, not what is playing, but what is winning-you can draw some well founded conclusions, not just with competent tactical rifles, but with most other sporting competitions that involve equipment. The fact that this even needs to be stated just draws attention to the arrogant stupidity that seems to be consistently edna Bryant. His/her stupid jab at MoBoost (about the barn door) is just that, stupid, and as it goes. Again, I believe this thread is regarding Savage's potential as a competent tactical rifle, thus engaging in currently recognized competent tactical rifles is right down the center of the discussion. If edna Bryant doesn't want to contribute something of substance, maybe she should go back to her man hating club or what ever it is she does to develop such a nasty attitude...

 

[Rob.Dizz.89]

Haha wow....I knew it was gonna be ugly when I read the title of this thread....not that I'm opposed to it, I'm really enjoying the back-and-forth sarcastic comments and the guys playing "who's the smartest marksman in the discussion." I don't really have anything useful to add, except that I own both Remington AND Savage **everyone gasp** and I enjoy them both.

 

[Short-bus]

All my Savages shoot 1 hole 1 shot groups at 2300 yards all day long, if I do my part. They're AMAZING!



Branden

 

[MoBoost]

You say Savage is just as good.

Just as good as any other factory action. Good enough to play, not good enough to win at the highest level.

So aside from flip-flopping, you don't know how it works, you've never shot one of the matches, and you feel qualified to offer advice as to what equipment is good enough. Foot in mouth much?

No flip-flopping. I know how it works. Never shot a PRS match. I do know MY equipment very well and I do feel that I can make educated, experienced and sound advice.

You on the other hand don't know shit about Savages, and yet take time and effort to bash them .... and for what? To help others? Or to just boost your ego with how awesome you did dumping a fortune into your gear? What do you have - a $6000 AI, a $3000 S&B and a $1500 can - no wonder you can't see the "money race": you are leading the freaking pack! And since you are so animate about "Indian not the arrow" - I am going to guess you get your ass beat on regular basis with cheaper gear as well. Or maybe you just can't admit to yourself that selling GAP to buy AI wasn't the best decision ever?

I am sorry if I ever confused you with "R" crowd - you obviously graduated to higher levels of elitist douchery.

By the way, there are rules---speed limits and caliber restrictions at most, if not all PRS and similar style matches.

Those rules are there to protect range gear not to level the field.

I've never shot a tactical match - and this thread ain't steering me towards it either.

 

[tylerw02]

Well now that this thread has deteriorated into name-calling, people acting like victims, and all the rest, I suggest you guys wash the orange off your manhood, wash the Cheetos off your hand and think about something. Your gear doesn't define you. If your gear isn't the best, so what? That doesn't make you a worthless person. Grow up.

Most of us are very fortunate people but would rather spend your time trying to get sandy vaginas over not liking what somebody's experience tells them. Get off your butt and go shoot. You'll burn far more money shooting your rifle than what your rifle cost.

But after your frustration is gone, the orange washed off, go hug your mom, your wife, girlfriend, kids, or whoever your loved ones are. That's far more important than your fragile ego, arguing to support your choice of shooting a savage, rem, tikka, or whatever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Morale_Gear]

So was the original question ever answered???