Clark Co. NV

[Sniper Uncle]

I respect your right to have that opinion. But to me it seems like the right are the ones always talking about all the undesirables and what needs to be done to them.

Name one True Conservative who has stated anything about what should be done to the "undesirables" of society, and quote what they said.

I can give you a list of folks from the Progressives/Nazis/Fascists/Communists who have espoused the cleansing of the races. Hitler, Marx, Engles, Lenin, Stalin, George Bernard Shaw, the list goes on and on. The current day Progressives are implementing the teachings of those whom I have named, and many who I did not name who are in the same camp. True Conservatives will have none of this, nor will they support this.

I'm calling you out. You are a Liar and a Troll-----if not, you are so woefully ignorant, that you should go and get educated, and I don't mean go to college and imbibe more of the sewage that goes for education today.

 

[pmclaine]

FS1 Your history is so wrong. Take this little quiz......

Which side grew during the Civil War on a platform to end the war, disolve the Union, and allow the South to maintain its institutions?

Which side ruled the South instituting Jim Crow and provided membership in the KKK?

Which side stood in the door ways of the schools in the South prohibiting little girls to enter?

Which side came up with the vile idea that creating a dependent population, providing enough for subsistence but never the tools to get ahead, would ensure a bought and paid for electorate?

Which side refuses to enforce the laws passed by Congress?

Which side has lost most of its connection with the ideas of the Founding Fathers and now has policies and agendas more closely aligned to that of some of the greatest killing machines of the last century - the govts of Soviet Russia, National Socialist Germany, The Peoples Republic of China, The Socialist govt of Vietnam and the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia?

Which side has a leader that sat through 20 years of Jeremiah Wright?

Which side has a leader that his career was started by a known terrorist that has advocated for the killing of 25 million Americans and the subdividing of the land amongst the Cubans, Russians and Chinese?

Which side has a justice department that has stated it will not prosecute "His people" whatever that means.

Which side has taken non political govt agencies and used them against poltical opponents?

Which side has taken the concept of leave no one behind and basically said "servicemen you are on your own"?

This is going well off topic and rather than feed the troll its time to stop pushing the envelope of forum rules for me.

 

[FS1]

Who says we have to pay for everyones visits? Where does it stop. Someone needs a car we pay for their car? Someone needs a cell phone we pay for their cell phone? Someone needs a flat screen TV we pay for their TV? Wait a minute that reminds me we pretty much do those things. I have compassion and belive in paying for those that need it but the system has reached the point where it is being seriously abused by gamers. We could get better care for those that need it at less cost by cutting the waste and fraud. Name me one program the gov has run that is not a mess? I dont want the govt between my family and my doctor

The law of economics is pretty basic...if some don't pay others must pay more to make up for it.

You are making my point that the govt is too big and it creates problems.

I don't see how that made your point...maybe I am just slow.

I'm calling you out. You are a Liar and a Troll-----if not, you are so woefully ignorant, that you should go and get educated, and I don't mean go to college and imbibe more of the sewage that goes for education today.

Well the pissing once again begins...count me out. How are we ever going to solve our nations problems if we can't even discuss things like civil men. The self righteous refuse to accept anyone else has a right to an opinion. You don't agree with them you become a trolling liar idiot.

FS1 Your history is so wrong. Take this little quiz......

Which side grew during the Civil War on a platform to end the war, disolve the Union, and allow the South to maintain its institutions?

Which side ruled the South instituting Jim Crow and provided membership in the KKK?

Which side stood in the door ways of the schools in the South prohibiting little girls to enter?


This is going well off topic and rather than feed the troll its time to stop pushing the envelope of forum rules for me.

See Nixons or the Republicans Southern Strategy and you will have your answer. The party's have inverted since then.

 

[KYbulldog]

See Nixons or the Republicans Southern Strategy and you will have your answer. The party's have inverted since then.

Well if anyone thinks either Party is gonna save the day, or my party is better than your party…that whole deal is a waste of time. I'm 46, and since I've been drawing breath either party has had control in DC and we're still in a mess. The reason is because the Men don't honor their Oath, haven't been students of History and think they know better than the Almighty. Until that changes, we still have people like Bundy, and the ranks of the AWAKE grow everyday. FS1, if you would put down the Communist Manifesto long enough to read here Essential Education - EssentialLiberty.US there might be hope for you yet.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Both party's are one in the same, smoke and mirrors, nothing more, nothing less. The ones who know no different are what many of us call the FSA(free stuff army) we are over run with them. They have now ran out of OPM (other peoples money) which is why the presses are in overdrive 24/7,...the clouds are coming over the horizon and the FSA are taking their last breaths. Perception does not work on those who always live in reality, and are not knee living types. The Thundering Heard as many call them are about to cliff dive, I'll waving good by myself, course you know the wave I'll talking about,...
BTW,... don't feed the paid,... trolls.

 

[SLINKY ERT]

Both party's are one in the same, smoke and mirrors, nothing more, nothing less.

While I may not agree with everything you say, we see eye to eye on this issue. Neither party is truly "For the People", or their best interests. More like what's best for special interest groups.

 

[DuneBoer]

Is anyone planning on going to Bundyfest this September? I am really curious if the militia is going to defend this event if the BLM is going to try and shut it down.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

While I may not agree with everything you say, we see eye to eye on this issue. Neither party is truly "For the People", or their best interests. More like what's best for special interest groups.

Slinky... I don't disagree with your sentiment... I, too, see eye to eye on that. At the risk of stirring an already bubbling pot, however, I will comment on your last statement WRT "Special Interest Groups" because their demonization as the 'root of all evil' I think is a symptom of the bigger problem that we all face, which is trying to over-simplify a really complex problem or assign a single point of failure to blame for our ills. Are "Special Interests" what we should be concerned about? Well, let me ramble a bit...

To frame the question we first have to ask "what is a special interest group?" It's a group of people who have gotten together to support or lobby their personal, pet or "special" interest. It may be gun control or pro-second-amendment. It could be for insurance or prescription drugs or mothers against driving drunk or farming or condo-building or world peace or legal weed... Every tiny slice of America... every individual, in fact, has their own special interests. Their own passions, windmills to tilt, dislikes, likes and, yes, even profit motives. Every individual has their own unique set of special interests.

What we don't all have as individuals is the time or the inclination to go and talk to our representative, senator, state rep, governor, president, etc. on a regular basis and about what's on our minds. I can't go to Washington every time there is a discussion, hearing or vote or whenever I want to say something. Nor can most of us. I can't even absorb the scope and scale of the complex laws, rules and regulations that may affect my personal 'interests.' I can't spend all my time watching federal, state, local, regional lawmaking and regulation that might affect my personal set of interests and passions. Nor do the elected folks have the ability to listen to the cacophony of voices that flow in thanks to modern instant media, the number of issues they address, or the size of the population.

So what do we do? We organize into groups. Special Interest Groups. And we pay them dues or memberships or make donations to them... and they go represent our interests in DC or our statehouse or the town hall. The special interests... are us! So if you belong to the NRA... you are a special interest. If you are in a union... special interest. In the military? You have special interest groups lobbying for your welfare, whether you know it or not. AARP member? Special interest. Do you belong to a trade or professional association? Special interest. Even if you live completely off the grid... you probably have a special interest representing you. In fact, I would suggest that each reader of this little tome take a moment and think about what Special Interest groups you belong to or support. I bet we all have several in our closets.

The short version is that we all have special interests. We seek out the groups that will carry our messages to "on high". And, as a rule, we generally like our own special interest groups (or at least consider them benign) while decrying the special interests we don't like and blaming them for bad things happening to us. While no one here probably thinks much of Handgun Control, Inc., there is likely a lot more support for the NRA, SAAMI, JPFO and other groups working to preserve (and expand) firearms rights.

This also brings up the whole 'corporation as special interest' argument. Because corporate America is also very-represented as a special interest. But, again, what is a corporation? It's an entity made up of workers (who get paychecks and jobs... so they have an interest in the success of IBM or MetLife or McDonalds) and owners... generally shareholders. There is no vampiresque Montgomery Burns in reality... and referring to a corporate entity in those terms is also an over-simplification by those who want to hold the evil coroprationany corporations responsible for all bad things.

Also remember, if you have a pension fund... you are a shareholder. If you have a 401K or mutual fund, you own pieces of corporations. Even if you have an internally-funded pension from your employer... that pension fund is undoubtedly growing because it is invested in corporations. YOU are the shareholder. So in the modern economy the line between worker and owner is hopelessly blurred. (John Steinbeck in The Grapes of Wrath has a wonderful chapter on "who owns the bank" early in the book... wonderful read.) The result is that a corporation representing its interests to grow, profit and return investment to its shareholders is a special interest, But it's not just operating in a vacuum...

Again, through the entity that is a corporation, we are being represented as a special interest! You want your 401K to grow, so the special interests who lobby for hedge funds... are representing your desire to retire comfortably. The corporate entity provides jobs, buys raw-material from suppliers and produces goods that their customers can sell at a profit... are all special interests that represent far more than a single point entity. Everyone up and down the supply chain from miner to retail store owner has a special interest not only in their mine or Minimart... but in the success of the whole supply chain. And they're represented... by a network of special interest groups.

Last, even if the Special Interests 'were' the problem... they're still protected speech... with exceptions to prevent bribery, influence peddling, etc. which have been determined to cross the line between 'representing the views of the American People' and 'buying votes.' (And this line continues to be examined... and is a source of much gnashing of teeth. I won't go there). That said, when you send a check into your favorite club, organization or charity... you are choosing to pay for representation rather than get in a car or pick up a phone and represent yourself. You are buying influence, even if it's only with a $20 check to AAA or the National Association of Lawn Care Professionals. Again, We are the Special Interests. WE are paying for our voices to be heard.

All that said... I completely agree with your sentiments, Slinky. And, personally, my own 'oversimplification' of the situation is that the problem isn't the cacophony of voices created by our own (competing) special interests...

My personal windmill to tilt stems from my opinion that we are gradually evolving a ruling political class, which was something the founders feared. This political class is being groomed at places like Harvard, Yale and Columbia... and we now see political power being handed from generation to generation instead of acting as 'citizen legislators' who are called to serve, give back, then return to our lives having done our bit. Unfortunately, and this is my opinion, is that the governing process now reflects an 'old boys and girls' network that makes Edwardian England look like the Soviet Komsomol. Again for a good read on the subject, Andrew J. Bacevich's "Washington Rules" is very fun to read while it also provokes some deep thinking on the complexity of the situation. (Bacevich, by the way, has basically written the 'same book' several times... he is a bit of a one-trick pony, intellectually. That does not prevent him from being, if not right, at least a guy who reflects a lot of my own personal views and prejudices. Totally worth reading, IMHO)

Anyway, not trying to stir the pot. Just trying to remind us all that one of the reasons we have gotten into what I'll unabashedly refer to as "this mess" is that we try and apply simple fixes to complex problems; look for evil entities or conspiracies where there are none; and accept what we are told instead of seeking to learn. And one of the reasons I love SH is that there are a lot of people here who are pretty darn smart and ask tough questions and provide some interesting points of view. Y'all give me hope for America.

Thanks, Slinky, for a thought-provoking post and an excuse to rant a bit on a Saturday morning.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[SLINKY ERT]

Sir,

I take no issue with your post at all. To be perfectly honest, I never thought of it in the terms you described. Thought provoking to say the least.

No need to apologize for "over simplifying" the issue. I appreciate the "laymans" explanation.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Do the Fed?s Really Own the Land in Nevada? Nope! | Armstrong Economics

Read It All.

The Pollard decision expressed a statement of constitutional law in dictum making it very clear that the Feds have no claim over the lands in Nevada. The Supreme Court states:
The United States never held any municipal sovereignty, jurisdiction, or right of soil in and to the territory of which Alabama, or any of the new States, were formed, except for temporary purposes, and to execute the trusts created by the acts of the Virginia and Georgia legislatures, and the deeds of cession executed by them to the United States, and the trust created by the treaty of the 30th April, 1803, with the French Republic ceding Louisiana.


So in other words, once a territory becomes a state, the Fed must surrender all claims to the land as if it were still just a possession or territory.


Sorry, but to all the left-wing commentators who call Bundy a tax-cheat and an outlaw, be careful of what you speak for the Supreme Court has made it clear in 1845 that the Constitution forbids the federal rangers to be out there to begin with for the Feds could not retain ownership of the territory and simultaneously grant state sovereignty. At the very minimum, it became state land – not federal.

 

[DuneBoer]

Do the Fed?s Really Own the Land in Nevada? Nope! | Armstrong Economics

Read It All.

The Pollard decision expressed a statement of constitutional law in dictum making it very clear that the Feds have no claim over the lands in Nevada. The Supreme Court states:
The United States never held any municipal sovereignty, jurisdiction, or right of soil in and to the territory of which Alabama, or any of the new States, were formed, except for temporary purposes, and to execute the trusts created by the acts of the Virginia and Georgia legislatures, and the deeds of cession executed by them to the United States, and the trust created by the treaty of the 30th April, 1803, with the French Republic ceding Louisiana.


So in other words, once a territory becomes a state, the Fed must surrender all claims to the land as if it were still just a possession or territory.


Sorry, but to all the left-wing commentators who call Bundy a tax-cheat and an outlaw, be careful of what you speak for the Supreme Court has made it clear in 1845 that the Constitution forbids the federal rangers to be out there to begin with for the Feds could not retain ownership of the territory and simultaneously grant state sovereignty. At the very minimum, it became state land – not federal.

The Supreme Court ruled the Feds have to surrender all claims to federally owned lands after it became a state? But the Nevada state constitution recognizes federal control of lands within its borders. How does the Louisiana Purchase treaty with France effect the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo with Spain where the lands in southern Nevada were acquired?

The Supreme Court (a federal court no less) at one time ruled slavery was constitutional.
The US District Court (another federal court) ruled Bundy was in violation of Taylor Grazing Act among other things.

If anyone has a legal claim to any of that land it would be the Southern Paiute Indians. Not someone whose father bought a 1/4 section, 160 acres, in 1948.

If the people of Nevada want all the federal land back in state ownership, then they need to fix their state constitution first and take it from there. When Nevada gets its land they can charge $20 per AUM (the going rate) instead of $1.83 what the BLM charges. Then we'll see what claim Bundy has next to get out of paying.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

I see you still haven't looked at the article nor the Equal Footing Doctrine.

Hint - Nevada was made a state without meeting the prerequisites for political expediency to get Lincoln elected. Equal Footing has not been equally applied across the West.

 

[Limedust]

I see you still haven't looked at the article nor the Equal Footing Doctrine.

Hint - Nevada was made a state without meeting the prerequisites for political expediency to get Lincoln elected. Equal Footing has not been equally applied across the West.

Equal footing applies to political rights and sovereignty; Nevada has no sovereignty in regards to Federal lands because they never had deed to the lands prior to statehood. The agreement was that those lands would remain federal . . . not that Nevada would cede land to the Federal Government. Neither Pollard nor Coyle v Smith apply. Bundy broke the law.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Equal footing applies to political rights and sovereignty; Nevada has no sovereignty in regards to Federal lands because they never had deed to the lands prior to statehood. The agreement was that those lands would remain federal . . . not that Nevada would cede land to the Federal Government. Neither Pollard nor Coyle v Smith apply. Bundy broke the law.

I guess the next thing you are going to tell me is that I don't own my house or the dirt it sets on because the bank owned it before I paid for it.

Brings us back to square 1 ;-)

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Equal footing applies to political rights and sovereignty; Nevada has no sovereignty in regards to Federal lands because they never had deed to the lands prior to statehood. The agreement was that those lands would remain federal . . . not that Nevada would cede land to the Federal Government. Neither Pollard nor Coyle v Smith apply. Bundy broke the law.

All I hear is crickets ;-)

 

[KYbulldog]

All I hear is crickets ;-)

…and the sound of racking slides, bolts, and charging handles.

And as for Special Interest Groups, NRA members should be concerned with the NRA policy of how the NRA chooses to put their endorsements behind candidates for office. We need not only to be concerned with the 2A, but the whole of the Constitution. Subversion of any part makes upholding the rest that much more difficult. Which is why I did not renew my membership. Results vary by state, but KY has a particularly egregious example of what I'm talking about this year.

Molon Labe

 

[KYbulldog]

I guess the next thing you are going to tell me is that I don't own my house or the dirt it sets on because the bank owned it before I paid for it.

Brings us back to square 1 ;-)

You "own" your house as long as you follow all the laws and pay for all your taxes. Some of which are determined by people you elect, a lot being determined by people you don't. Bringin us back to square 1

 

[Turd in the Pool]

You "own" your house as long as you follow all the laws and pay for all your taxes. Some of which are determined by people you elect, a lot being determined by people you don't. Bringin us back to square 1

Fair enough. Don't forget option 3 ;-)

Remember the Alamo!

 

[MCSO1357]

…and the sound of racking slides, bolts, and charging handles.

And as for Special Interest Groups, NRA members should be concerned with the NRA policy of how the NRA chooses to put their endorsements behind candidates for office. We need not only to be concerned with the 2A, but the whole of the Constitution. Subversion of any part makes upholding the rest that much more difficult. Which is why I did not renew my membership. Results vary by state, but KY has a particularly egregious example of what I'm talking about this year.

Molon Labe

This is why I refuse to be a member of the NRA. I remember quite vividly the way they folded in 1994.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

This is why I refuse to be a member of the NRA. I remember quite vividly the way they folded in 1994.

I was a very staunch member until they and ronnie ray-gun threw some of us under the bus to get the votes to pass brady's horse-shit. 5/19/86 was the cut off date for those who don't know.

 

[DuneBoer]

Join GOA. They don't compromise. Remember the asswipes in the NRA endorsed Hairy Reed in 2010.

 

[MCSO1357]

Join GOA. They don't compromise. Remember the asswipes in the NRA endorsed Hairy Reed in 2010.

This


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smschulz]

Well the pissing once again begins...count me out. How are we ever going to solve our nations problems if we can't even discuss things like civil men. The self righteous refuse to accept anyone else has a right to an opinion. You don't agree with them you become a trolling liar idiot.

When you know the law~ you argue the law.
When you know the facts~ you argue the facts.
When you know neither~ you are doing the right thing, FS1 by shutting the fuck up.

 

[Shoottothrill]

I know alot of guys are down on the NRA for one reason or another from time to time, but come on guys if you can afford this sport you can afford to support both the NRA and the GOA, I do. I don't always agree with everything the NRA does, but without them we would have all been fucked along time ago. Everyone steps on their dicks once in awhile, but they still do more good than bad and I wish every single gun owner in the country would join. If membership was at a 100 million instead of 4 million this game would have been won a long time ago.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[KYbulldog]

I know alot of guys are down on the NRA for one reason or another from time to time, but come on guys if you can afford this sport you can afford to support both the NRA and the GOA, I do. I don't always agree with everything the NRA does, but without them we would have all been fucked along time ago. Everyone steps on their dicks once in awhile, but they still do more good than bad and I wish every single gun owner in the country would join. If membership was at a 100 million instead of 4 million this game would have been won a long time ago.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

I didnt make those comments to bash NRA but in context of Spec Interest Groups people need to carefully consider what they support, do their homework. I don't doubt they do good work, but they dilute it with their endorsements. Wounded Warriors does great work, but when they stop to throw support behind international treaties that we don't need and erode our national sovereignty they are taking their focus off what they do best rather and are supporting things that inevitably harm their work.

Lastly, I disagree we'd be in a world of hurt without the NRA or GOA for that matter.

I know this because I don't remember seeing either of those organizations board members at the Bundy ranch. Let that sink in a bit. Now, where was that popcorn?

 

[KYbulldog]

Must read


Truth in Media: Cliven Bundy?s ?Racist? Remarks Were Also Promoting Hispanic Culture? What MSM Isn?t Telling You | Ben Swann Truth In Media

 

[DuneBoer]

I understand an organization stepping on their dicks once in awhile but endorsing Hairy Reed is like stepping on your dick, cutting it off, roasting it and shoving it up your ass. Fuck the NRA and their back room dealing with the likes of Hairy Reed. The line has been crossed long ago, in 1986, not with Cliven and the Mormon cavalry. States are shitting all over the constitution and the second amendment (You know the Constitution, that federal document from the federal government, the same federal government Cliven and his ilk don't recognize.) Where are the Militias on this? When is the militia going to march on Connecticut for their completely illegal laws they have passed. Who gives a flying rip about Bundy? The real crime is all these anti second amendment laws states keep passing.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I know alot of guys are down on the NRA for one reason or another from time to time, but come on guys if you can afford this sport you can afford to support both the NRA and the GOA, I do. I don't always agree with everything the NRA does, but without them we would have all been fucked along time ago. Everyone steps on their dicks once in awhile, but they still do more good than bad and I wish every single gun owner in the country would join. If membership was at a 100 million instead of 4 million this game would have been won a long time ago.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

The NRA is in bed with the tics to ever so slowly to get the tic agenda passed, if you can't see that your blind. If you want to dig, search Mrs. Marion P. Hammer of Fla., Long before she became President of the NRA she had drank their cool-aid as well. Her and I had a 2 day discussion about it while at a Lakeland gun show some years back. Not everything is as it appears at first look, when you talk about tic's and guns.

 

[KentuckyWindage]

The NRA is in bed with the tics

Sad truth here. Too much money involved, that shit kills the best of everything.

 

[MLC]

Folks losing money too:

Businesses lose thousands in Bundy ordeal - 8 News NOW

 

[FS1]

Folks losing money too:

Businesses lose thousands in Bundy ordeal - 8 News NOW

I am no fan of Harry, but it sure sounds like terror to me. So much for the freedom loving Militias. These are Americans whose only crime having a business near Bundy. I guess they are not free to do business with whomever they want.

This is what I don't like about these Militiamen who are defending freedom. They decide what freedom is, and you are free to agree with them. If you don't, you are a commie who has no right to even breathe the air on this planet. JMHO

 

[KentuckyWindage]

I am no fan of Harry, but it sure sounds like terror to me. So much for the freedom loving Militias. These are Americans whose only crime having a business near Bundy. I guess they are not free to do business with whomever they want.

This is what I don't like about these Militiamen who are defending freedom. They decide what freedom is, and you are free to agree with them. If you don't, you are a commie who has no right to even breathe the air on this planet. JMHO

They are doing what they feel is best. Ask 100 people get 100 answers. Nobody wins this fight.

 

[FS1]

They are doing what they feel is best.

So is the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

 

[woojos]

I am no fan of Harry, but it sure sounds like terror to me. So much for the freedom loving Militias. These are Americans whose only crime having a business near Bundy. I guess they are not free to do business with whomever they want.

This is what I don't like about these Militiamen who are defending freedom. They decide what freedom is, and you are free to agree with them. If you don't, you are a commie who has no right to even breathe the air on this planet. JMHO

My opinions changed on this and I agree with you.

I'd wager a lot of the "militiamen" who are still there are extremists, and have a hugely deluded view of reality and if you don't share it you become the enemy.

At first, a lot of more reasonable people showed up, probably to opportunize and say this is what will happen if you push again towards gun control, or other unrelated issues. More of a polite show of force and some brinksmanship to show that they are serious and sincere in their stance on certain issues. These people are probably more functional and had lives to attend to, so they eventually left and went back to them.

Now the weirdos are pushing it a little too hard and beyond the point of a reasonable position with threats of violence which is terrorism, and alienating the people who would generally support them. This is not a good place to be.

 

[leagle2]

I am no fan of Harry, but it sure sounds like terror to me. So much for the freedom loving Militias. These are Americans whose only crime having a business near Bundy. I guess they are not free to do business with whomever they want.

This is what I don't like about these Militiamen who are defending freedom. They decide what freedom is, and you are free to agree with them. If you don't, you are a commie who has no right to even breathe the air on this planet. JMHO

A very funny news paper columnist from Chicago, the late Mike Royko, commenting on the civil unrest of the late 60s said "The people who say "All power to the People" really mean, all power to the people who say "All power to the people". Its true on the left and true on the right.

 

[DuneBoer]

Just like in Cambodia. You may be on their side, assist in the revolution and overthrow the government only to be labeled counter revolutionary and end up with a plastic bag over your head. Like the communists, misinformation is their friend. One simple fact is distorted, then becomes the truth and how dare anyone question it. If you do you are now the enemy of freedom. We don't need permission to question our government. We can question these militias. We can have an opinion but our opinion can be criticised.

Fear any organization that wants you to blindly follow.
Fear any group that distorts the truth to further their goals.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

“...out from the door of the farmhouse came a long file of pigs, all walking on their hind legs...out came Napoleon himself, majestically upright, casting haughty glances from side to side, and with his dogs gambolling round him.

He carried a whip in his trotter.

There was a deadly silence. Amazed, terrified, huddling together, the animals watched the long line of pigs march slowly round the yard. It was as though the world had turned upside-down. Then there came a moment when the first shock had worn off and when, in spite of everything-in spite of their terror of the dogs, and of the habit, developed through long years, of never complaining, never criticising, no matter what happened-they might have uttered some word of protest. But just at that moment, as though at a signal, all the sheep burst out into a tremendous bleating of-

"Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better!"

It went on for five minutes without stopping. And by the time the sheep had quieted down, the chance to utter any protest had passed, for the pigs had marched back into the farmhouse.”

As Clover looked down the hillside her eyes filled with tears. If she could have spoken her thoughts, it would have been to say that this was not what they had aimed at when they had set themselves years ago to work for the overthrow of the human race. These scenes of terror and slaughter were not what they had looked forward to on that night when old Major first stirred them to rebellion. If she herself had had any picture of the future, it had been of a society of animals set free from hunger and the whip, all equal, each working according to his capacity, the strong protecting the weak, as she had protected the lost brood of ducklings with her foreleg on the night of Major's speech. Instead--she did not know why--they had come to a time when no one dared speak his mind, when fierce, growling dogs roamed everywhere, and when you had to watch your comrades torn to pieces after confessing to shocking crimes. There was no thought of rebellion or disobedience in her mind. She knew that, even as things were, they were far better off than they had been in the days of Jones, and that before all else it was needful to prevent the return of the human beings. Whatever happened she would remain faithful, work hard, carry out the orders that were given to her, and accept the leadership of Napoleon. But still, it was not for this that she and all the other animals had hoped and toiled.”

“In a way, the world-view of the party imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant violation, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding they remained sane. They simply swallowed everything and what they swallowed did them no harm because it left no residue behind, just as a grain of corn will pass undigested through the body of a bird.”

― George Orwell, Animal Farm

 

[KentuckyWindage]

So is the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Oh hell. That was my point.

 

[KentuckyWindage]

“...out from the door of the farmhouse came a long file of pigs, all walking on their hind legs...out came Napoleon himself, majestically upright, casting haughty glances from side to side, and with his dogs gambolling round him.

He carried a whip in his trotter.

There was a deadly silence. Amazed, terrified, huddling together, the animals watched the long line of pigs march slowly round the yard. It was as though the world had turned upside-down. Then there came a moment when the first shock had worn off and when, in spite of everything-in spite of their terror of the dogs, and of the habit, developed through long years, of never complaining, never criticising, no matter what happened-they might have uttered some word of protest. But just at that moment, as though at a signal, all the sheep burst out into a tremendous bleating of-

"Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better!"

It went on for five minutes without stopping. And by the time the sheep had quieted down, the chance to utter any protest had passed, for the pigs had marched back into the farmhouse.”

As Clover looked down the hillside her eyes filled with tears. If she could have spoken her thoughts, it would have been to say that this was not what they had aimed at when they had set themselves years ago to work for the overthrow of the human race. These scenes of terror and slaughter were not what they had looked forward to on that night when old Major first stirred them to rebellion. If she herself had had any picture of the future, it had been of a society of animals set free from hunger and the whip, all equal, each working according to his capacity, the strong protecting the weak, as she had protected the lost brood of ducklings with her foreleg on the night of Major's speech. Instead--she did not know why--they had come to a time when no one dared speak his mind, when fierce, growling dogs roamed everywhere, and when you had to watch your comrades torn to pieces after confessing to shocking crimes. There was no thought of rebellion or disobedience in her mind. She knew that, even as things were, they were far better off than they had been in the days of Jones, and that before all else it was needful to prevent the return of the human beings. Whatever happened she would remain faithful, work hard, carry out the orders that were given to her, and accept the leadership of Napoleon. But still, it was not for this that she and all the other animals had hoped and toiled.”

― George Orwell, Animal Farm

'Nuff said.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I must say, I have a problem with posters here equating even the most Whacked out Militia here with the Taliban or Al Queada. The Taliban and Al Queada both have demonstrable records of murder and out right terrorism. I have not read any substantiated record of this type of thing from these Militias. Even the news report was rather thin on facts, as no one involved was willing to go on camera, and the Armed Checkpoints talked of were not actually found by the reporter.
I am not saying that threats haven't been made, and I do not say that there wasn't a bomb scare, but the news stories do seem to be inflated for effect and very thin on actual verifiable substance. I cannot help but think that there is some mis-information being perpetrated here, and probably for nefarious reasons. The more negative press they can give, the less public support will be given.
This whole mess is unfortunate for several reasons.

1. Cliven Bundy is not the best face for this issue. He has made some serious gaffs in public, and especially because his name isn't Joe Biden, those gaffs are being used against him and his cause.
2. The foolish (alleged) actions/statements of Militia folk are being used agains the cause also.
3. The State Government of Nevada and the Sheriff do not seem to be playing their duty bound roles in this, while the Feds are playing way outside the scope of their role.

Just a few thoughts I have, FWIW.

 

[KYbulldog]

Which is why I don't typically respond to the " agent provocateurs" that post on here, just looking to stir the pot or worse. You can only refute with facts so much before it becomes obvious that these folks will ignore the most overt attempt to discredit the siren call to Liberty.

And equating a militia to Al-CIA'da is akin to Kerry saying Israel is in danger of becoming an apartheid state... Or Barry equating America's human rights issues with Malaysia's. It's offensive and just doesn't work. (Not to mention exposes stupidity or provocateur status).

 

[Turd in the Pool]

I wholeheartedly agree Tim. Esp. with #3! ;-)

 

[FS1]

Which is why I don't typically respond to the " agent provocateurs" that post on here, just looking to stir the pot or worse. You can only refute with facts so much before it becomes obvious that these folks will ignore the most overt attempt to discredit the siren call to Liberty.

You do know what the "sirens call" is correct? The sirens were creatures that would use their beautiful voices to lure sailors to steer towards the rocks to their death. Is it possible to disagree with you and not be an "agent provocateur"?

And equating a militia to Al-CIA'da is akin to Kerry saying Israel is in danger of becoming an apartheid state... Or Barry equating America's human rights issues with Malaysia's. It's offensive and just doesn't work. (Not to mention exposes stupidity or provocateur status).

Several of Israels own leaders have stated the same thing. Remember, it has been written that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And I believe it was in that context Al Q and the Tali were equated to the Militia.

 

[KentuckyWindage]

3. The State Government of Nevada and the Sheriff do not seem to be playing their duty bound roles in this, while the Feds are playing way outside the scope of their role.

The gov does what it wants, the police enforce gov mandates. Police state. The America I know and love is gone, or maybe never was, either way the writing is on the wall.

 

[KYbulldog]

You do know what the "sirens call" is correct? The sirens were creatures that would use their beautiful voices to lure sailors to steer towards the rocks to their death. Is it possible to disagree with you and not be an "agent provocateur"?.

Busted, and corrected.(that siren most oft quoted was of the fishy sort) That was the complete opposite and a different siren than I was thinking at the moment. But is also brings an important point that there will be without a doubt those who are attracted to the Liberty movement for the wrong reasons, and we should carefully evaluate the reasons behind our actions and what siren it is that we rally to.

And it is also possible to agree AND be an agent.

Stay frosty my friends.

 

[KentuckyWindage]

Busted, and corrected. That was the complete opposite and a different siren than I was thinking at the moment.
And it is also possible to disagree AND be an agent.

Most of us knew what you meant.

 

[FS1]

My opinions changed on this and I agree with you.

I'd wager a lot of the "militiamen" who are still there are extremists, and have a hugely deluded view of reality and if you don't share it you become the enemy.

At first, a lot of more reasonable people showed up, probably to opportunize and say this is what will happen if you push again towards gun control, or other unrelated issues. More of a polite show of force and some brinksmanship to show that they are serious and sincere in their stance on certain issues. These people are probably more functional and had lives to attend to, so they eventually left and went back to them.

Now the weirdos are pushing it a little too hard and beyond the point of a reasonable position with threats of violence which is terrorism, and alienating the people who would generally support them. This is not a good place to be.

You sir have Character, and not because you agree with me. Because you have the ability to change your mind as the facts develop.

Busted, and corrected. That was the complete opposite and a different siren than I was thinking at the moment.
And it is also possible to disagree AND be an agent.

I knew what you meant, but we do get very literal around here. You are also a man of character for your ability to be incorrect and admit it.

Both of you are the kind of men who help make a nation great. We shall likely seldom agree on things, but that does not matter. As long as we can honestly talk about those things.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/042814zor_6k47.pdf

 

[KentuckyWindage]

http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/042814zor_6k47.pdf

I didn't see anything Bundy on there?

 

[KYbulldog]

Stay frosty my friends.

Free speech boxes. Lines demarcating the places where you are "permitted" by the "authorities" to practice your "free" speech. These lines are being drawn not only in Bunkerville, but throughout the nation.
When a very powerful Senator equates people who believe differently than he to terrorists, it was not a "slip of the tonque" or misuse of a common colloquialism. This makes those in Control the arbiter of law, instead of the word of the Law. And when those in control have no reverence for the Natural and Divine law, there is tyranny.

https://www.rutherford.org/publicat..._hear_ndaa_legal_challenge_allowing_president