Cost v. Benefit of Reloading .308

[supercorndogs]

I shoot twice a week on average with a retired Fireman. He told me that firemen are more worried about all the aerosol cans in peoples houses than their reloading supplies.

In a fire the powder just burns, it doesn't explode. On the other hand, an aerosol paint can, or for that matter most other chemicals in aerosol cans (hairspray is a notorious one), will explode in a fireball and send out pieces of shrapnel.

Not everyone has smokeless powder in their home but almost everyone has flammable aerosol cans throughout their house and don't give it a second thought.

this reloading supplies and ammo do not make a house fire more dangerous. on accurate shooter there is a video of them setting a whole pallet of ammo on fire.

if you anneal your brass and load it conservatively you can essentially make it last forever. we have 1940s headstamp 30-06 military brass that we are reloading still. i have 308 brass that i shot 15 times before i learned how to anneal. if you have to shoot if 100fps faster than factory ammo your your cost per round goes up. if you find blemished bullets and sale bullets and components your price per round goes down if you need bergers and lapua brass your price per round goes up. 50 cents is not bad but i think some people are doing some bad math here at the cost of their components for 308. 2 cent primers are tough to find. 3 cents of powder in a 308 maybe with trail boss and sub sonics. i shoot wolf and wolf gold for off hand practice and hunt and shoot lr with hand loads.

 

[Infidel45]

Infidel - I'm in a very similar situation as you. I have a 2.5 yr old daughter with another on the way. I reload for 4 cartridges including 308 Win. My 308 reloads cost about $0.50/rd not counting brass or $0.58/rd with Lapua brass amortized over 10 reloads. Time away from my family for a hobby is a big concern for me since I travel for work also. And I'm also in the position to afford factory match ammo if I so choose. I just got my new 308 in March for F class competitions. I bought 3 boxes of factory ammo and I think I have shot about 1/2 a box so far. I much prefer to shoot my loaded ammo. I only have about 250 rds through the gun because I haven't had time to go to the range very often, but I did shoot a 300 yd F class match last month. I came in second to the reigning World Champion. That level of satisfaction is not attainable with factory ammo; at least not in my gun. Now that you have a chono, run some FGGM over it and compare ES and SD with your reloads. I can beat FGGM by at least 10 on SD and probably 40 fps on ES. All that means I will drop less points due to vertical.

Long story short, I reload at night when I have time after my little girl has gone to bed. I reload in stages with the last stage being powder and bullet seating. I will prime brass sitting on the couch in the evening since I can be inside with my family. The time cost of going to the range and a few matches is much more than time spent reloading since going to shoot is at least 1/2 day and matches are all day. Benefits are the satisfaction of winning with my own reloads and improving my skills as a shooter, and I can have ammo any time I want.

Thanks for the tips BC. My reloading time is progressing towards what you do...performing whatever stage of the process I am in at night after his bedtime or on weekends when my wife takes him somewhere for one thing or another. My range time is usually 7-11 Sunday mornings..weather and other commitments notwithstanding. Congrats on your match....the highlight of my reloading thus far was being thrilled that I hit an IPSC steel target at 500 yds with my first ever hand loads. I recently just focused on the prep and now have about 350 cases prepped/primed and ready to load for an upcoming comp. I also have several different test loads ready for Sunday for my new chrono to compare against some 118LR and FGMM on hand. So I should have enough data after that to load up for the completion.

 

[BC 6.8]

Keep up the good work and let us know how your reloads turn out. The most important time for me when reloading is powder and bullet seating. I load up all rounds for a competition or range trip at one time to maintain consistency within the batch. Also, I don't want any interruptions during this time. The rest of the steps I can walk away from at any time and pick back up where I left off. The main reason I buy Lapua brass is to save time on prep. I just chamfer, mandrel expand, load and shoot new Lapua. Other brands take more time, so I view it as money well spent.

I have a Sunday morning meeting with God each week and my local range is closed, so Sunday shooting is out for me. I shoot mostly on Saturday, but will go on a week day every now and then.

 

[sivrup]

Recommendation?

Do you make the same equipment recommendation to someone who has never reloaded, but contemplating taking the plunge?

Infidel,


Let me start by saying that if you are spending more than $0.45 per round ALL in reloading, you are doing it wrong.

1. Think Big. Buy in Bulk. Buy Online. Buying reloading components at your Local Gun Store is a waste of money especially if you are buying components in small quantities. Most places will ship you a 40lb order in one box...that means one shipping charge & one HAZMAT fee...

2. Buy 1 year to 2 year supplies at one time. I never order less than 16lbs of powder, + 10,000 primers and 2,000 bullets in an order...this let you minimize shipping fees and insulates you against the scalpers that rip off people who really need components during the mad rushes that now seem to occur every other year.

3. Look for deals online on shooting forums. There are people constantly getting out of reloading, needing money, switching out of calibers etc. For instance, i was able to buy 900 Hornady 178gr HPBT Match bullets for $24/100 shipped last month, on this site...the same bullets are $28-$33 online + shipping, and $36.99 + tax locally...it adds up.

4. Avoid Gunshows...there was a time when great deals could be had at gunshows...no mas. They are just another way for local sellers to rip off more people.

Now that we've addressed how you are supposed to accumulate your stash at the best prices, let's talk about the other aspects of reloading...but first, a word on the math.

1. 308 Winchester Brass sells online for $23/100 to $80/100. That price range is for new brass. Once-fired brass is about $25/100 on gunbroker and slightly higher with a fresh primer. You need to be honest with yourself re needs and ability. Unless you are shooting in the higher echelons of bechrest, 1,00yard prone matches, etc, you will not be able to tell the difference between the once-fired brass and Lapua brass. Your Rifle will outshoot you for a significant amount of time, so pick components that are suitable for your application, not the very "best".

2. You can get about 5-10 reloads with brass, one w primer, one w powder, one w bullet...that means your cost is as follows:
* Brass; $0.05 to $0.03 per round.
* Powder; $0.03 per round, based on buying 8lb jugs online
* Primer; $0.03 per round, based on buying for $25/1000 online
* Bullet; $0.28 per round, based on buying online without any "deals"
* All in cost is = $0.40 to $0.37 per round (That's ALL in).

I don't understand how you are reloading for double that...u must be throwing away your brass and paying through the nose for components.

The other aspect is TIME. This is the most misunderstood. NOONE's time is valuable...that is to say the time you spend reloading is cannot be monetized...you would find another way to waste your "free time" if you did not reload. Don't get me wrong, i fully understand your time is invaluable (cant put a cost against it) to you and you want to devote it to being a good husband and father, however, that time is wasted from a financial stand point.

I hate reloading. I think of it as a chore. Therefore, anything i can do to minimize the time i spend reloading is worth it to me. i have therefore taken the following actions to speed up my reloading;

1. Get a motorized trimmer...specifically, a Giraud Trimmer...it performs three steps in one (triming, chamfering inside & outside of case mouths). All other trimmers suck since they don't save you time or perform as well as a Giraud trimmer. Before i acquired a Giraud, this step took the most time.

2. Get a tumbler or US cleaner Bigger than you need. No matter what is says on the box the actual capacity is about 60% of whats indicated...if you want your brass spic & span. Otherwise, you will waste time by performing case cleaning more than once.

3. Get a progressive press. DO not let anyone tell you that you cannot load accurate ammo in a progressive press. It's a myth. You can load 5x faster than a single stage press minimizing time away from what you'd rather be doing.

4. Find a powder that's powder measure friendly. I'm guessing the myth of progressive presses being inaccurate stems from trying to load powders w long kernels. With H-4350, i get variations up to 2.5 grains when it "crunches", Varget is about 0.8gr, AR-comp, 0.2gr, 2000MR NO variation!.

There, that all i have for now. Gotta get back to work...

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Sivrup,

Yes, i would make the same recommendation to anyone beginner or advanced reloader.

As I previously mentioned, i value my time and consider reloading a chore...which doesn't exactly meld well with my competition schedule.

 

[mark5pt56]

I didn't write it down, but I also calculated the time spent and how much I "paid" myself per hour on various calibers. After factoring in that and the "footprint" of gear and how often I shoot certain calibers, I 'm in the process of reloading all I have left except precision .308 and .223 for the 600 yard line and will buy factory thereafter. Just loaded up the last .308 hunting yesterday, should be good for some time, have 400 on hand now. For .308 ball I was in the neighborhood of 3rd world executive pay-3-4 an hour. I have 200 150gr ball left to load and will then have over 1k for the Scouts, will only run hunting in them after that. I'm lucky in the regard of free .308 brass otherwise that may be a factor. I did this when I had a .308 AR for a short time and prepped a bunch of brass for it.

 

[Pinecone]

Thanks for all of the comments...well, most of them anyway. Despite the opinions of some that "reloading may not be for you" or the questions regarding commitment, etc., I think I will keep at it--when I have time. As my original post stated..I have only been reloading for a few months and doing so for only two .308 rifles. I don't know enough yet (or have the confidence in my handloading) to start developing loads that are too far outside the "box". I know what my rifles do with FGMM and 118LR, so that is what I am trying to hand load to match...also because my rifles are magazine fed and I have to keep COAL in mind. I haven't been shooting comps or Long Range very long either, compared to most of you it seems, so yes, I am also trying to crank out as many of these "clone match" rounds as I can to get as much trigger time as possible to develop the skill in both hand loading and (more importantly) shooting. I admittedly don't know as much about precision rifle shooting/skill as most here, but I do know (from Military, LE experience and getting to know competition shooters) that it is much more about the shooter (skill/experience) than the gear. The guy that got me into this world is a sponsored shooter for a major optics company....and he ONLY uses factory 118LR and a gas gun in every comp but ASC. I've seen him hit a 6" steel plate at 90 yds with his off the shelf .380 pocket pistol...repeatedly. I've seen a guy with a Wal Mart special, Savage .243 with a fixed 4x Tasco scope ring steel at 1000 yds. So my goals (Skill set development) currently are not the same as most of you who have been there/done that. My thinking is that if I can't consistently hit targets in differing conditions out to the limit of .308 range with Factory Match or a clone thereof, then no "magic hand load" is going to fix that. So my post was along those lines...though apparently not well clarified. I simply want to shoot as much as I can at this stage, as economically as possible, taking into consideration the TIME that I have decided to spend on this pursuit. Everyone's situation is different...doesn't make me any less committed to MY goals--I choose to dedicate more of my time with my family since that is priority 1 for me. This is a hobby to ME...I have no goals to be a sponsored shooter or be famous in these circles. I enjoy doing it and that is WHY I do it. Who is anyone to say "it isn't for you" because I don't do it the way someone else does or spend the same amount of time someone else can or does? You certainly have the right to say it and think it...free country and public forum...but really. I asked only "what is everyone's cost/benefit ratio when time is factored into it" after stating MY current situation and monetary costs. I know I can get supplies cheaper if I buy in bulk but I don't want "2 years worth" of gunpowder in the same house as my wife and 2 yr old. If my house catches fire, I don't want some unsuspecting young firefighter to walk into that while trying to save my home. My house..my choice...your house, your choice-I would never presume to tell someone how to live, manage their family life or whether something they like doing is or isn't "for them" simply because they don't do it my way or place the same priority level on it as I do.

Hell, I just got a chronograph in the mail this week and haven't used it yet...that is how "young" I am at hand loading. Maybe one day I will get a rifle in a "sexy" caliber that deserves the time spent "seating out to the lands" and weighing bullets and cases and separating by same in order to tighten my group up by .00111 inches at 100 yards....but I seriously doubt it. I just like to shoot and want to get better at it, but not at the expense of stuff that is actually important...to me.

Thanks again to those who responded to my simple question & situation without judgment or presumption. For the rest of it? I finally understand Dan Newberry's comment regarding "the self-appointed mall cops of handloading"..

There is a thing called paragraphs. REALLY makes long posts easier to read.

But for load development - OCW Overview - Dan Newberry's OCW Load Development System

Just follow the directions.

 

[Deadshot2]

Do you make the same equipment recommendation to someone who has never reloaded, but contemplating taking the plunge?

I think the most important thing to consider before making a recommendation to an FNG is to find out what their expectations are in the years down the road.

If they are unsure, start with a nice inexpensive starter kit from a manufacturer of your choice. If the plan is to be able to load hundreds, if not thousands in a session after a learning curve of a year or so then don't "buy twice". Buy according to the projected needs down the road.

In short, if you know you'll need 600-1,000 round per hour capability in the next year of so, go for a good progressive capable of that. Don't futz around with cheap and inadequate equipment just because you don't need that capability today. Think and plan ahead.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Everyone thinks they're going to get into reloading to save money but they end up just shooting 4 times as much because they can reload for a quarter of the price. Lol.

I enjoy reloading and when it comes to my precision rifles then it also helps with the piece of mind knowing that I have the best custom tailored load for my rifle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deadshot2]

Everyone thinks they're going to get into reloading to save money but they end up just shooting 4 times as much because they can reload for a quarter of the price. Lol.

Funny, that wasn't the case with me. I got into reloading because I already shot 4X as much as the average and HAD to in order to keep from going broke


As for the "Premium Loads" , no question there. It's amazing how much a "just so-so" rifle will improve in accuracy when the only change is to shoot hand-loads. It's like giving a showroom stock car a good tune-up.

 

[Skyranch]

you wont save money...you'll just shoot more

 

[Pinecone]

Funny, that wasn't the case with me. I got into reloading because I already shot 4X as much as the average and HAD to in order to keep from going broke

Same here. Started reloading in college to reduce the cost of the shooting I was doing.

 

[Road_Clam]

Funny, that wasn't the case with me. I got into reloading because I already shot 4X as much as the average and HAD to in order to keep from going broke


As for the "Premium Loads" , no question there. It's amazing how much a "just so-so" rifle will improve in accuracy when the only change is to shoot hand-loads. It's like giving a showroom stock car a good tune-up.

Well stated. I've been reloading for about a year. After chatting with many of my F&G club's high power and F shooters they quickly convinced me of the logical benefits to hand loading. The reluctant factor to shooters contemplating handloading is obviously the initial steep cash outlay. It was tough for me as well where I wanted to load precision .223 and .308. I dropped a quick $900 by the time all was said and done and I was completely up and running. Like I said, I allocate time like 3 days a week spending a few hrs at a time. I can't just stand there and cookie cutter bang out 40 rounds from unprepped brass to finish load in one night, that gets annoying.

 

[Deadshot2]

I can't just stand there and cookie cutter bang out 40 rounds from unprepped brass to finish load in one night, that gets annoying.

Everyone will have their own method but I do all my prep work, right up through priming the cases, while sitting and watching TV with the exception of cleaning which I do in a tumbler with SS Pins after having manually de-primed with ahand press. I have an end table that I put a couple bins on and one "big bowl" of cleaned and sized cases. From there I inspect and trim. My trimmer is mounted on a lap board and it works great while sitting in my favorite recliner. As the cases are trimmed, chamfered, and de-burred (all in one op) they go into the appropriate bin by headstamp. Yesterday afternoon my wife and I watched a movie and I was able to process ~250 cases. That should get me through a week or two Once prepped, I can load a box of 50 in just under 30 minutes using a chargemaster so every charge is weighed.

Only time I really need to "sequester" myself in the loading room is when I'm cranking 'em out on the progressive and I'll take a day to run several thousand (.223 and 9mm).

When I add up the time I'm really away from the family (wife, dog, and cat) it's only an hour or so each week and maybe two longer sessions per month for the large runs.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

It's like giving a showroom stock car a good tune-up.

Actually, it more like giving a showroom stick car something to run on that wasn't concocted by a legislative committee.

Greg

 

[GhostFace]

What I first got into reloading I bought my equipment as I got the extra money. I try to develop loads in the summer and load in bulk in the winter. I also load through out the year as I get time or feel like it. I like to load in bulk so I prep all my brass is quantities of 500 or so. I size all at one time, trim all at one time etc. So when I sit down to actually load I load 100 at time. Sometimes I will do this 2-3 a day on a single stage press, weighing each charge. It takes a while but when I'm in the mood I can get Going pretty good. When I load I don't like to have to do each step to get a completed round. This method works for me. I shoot at least once a month in the winter so that leave a lot of time for loading.